People get embalmed when they die so that they can be resurrected. I'm not saying that everyone does that with resurrection in mind but that's the idea behind it. Some churches actively still preach that stuff.
If you are cremated you ain't coming back when Jebus starts the party bus
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
. Like I said. It boils down to a choice. In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe. I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)
and this is the crux of the problem a lot of people have with religion. if we are god's children, it is the opinion of many that he should love us unconditionally, as I love my children unconditionally. if they choose a different path than I have set out for them, I will not abandon them for that, for they have free will, they are not perfect, etc. I will love them no matter what they do.
so for "the father" to say "fuck you, I created you, and you did not follow my teachings, here, you shall live in hell for all eternity with all of your hethen brothers and sisters and suffer under the rule of the fallen angel" is just downright shitty. and I personally cannot subscribe to the notion of a god that would treat his children in that manner. people call him all loving and merciful. that's actually the very opposite of those two things.
if he knew that many would reject him, it makes no sense that he gave us free will. and this is why so many reject it: it seems as though it is an ideology based on fear of the individual: follow us and give us money, or you will live in hell forever. to me, that's just a way of controlling people, not saving them.
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
. Like I said. It boils down to a choice. In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe. I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)
I just can't stand behind the extreme vanity of "worship me and my son or I will burn you for eternity"
There are millions if not billions of people who lead compassionate lives, sowing peace throughout their communities, and helping to alleviate suffering where they can, all without a touch of Jesus worship. A God who condemns out of vanity is beneath my code of moral standards.
People get embalmed when they die so that they can be resurrected. I'm not saying that everyone does that with resurrection in mind but that's the idea behind it. Some churches actively still preach that stuff.
If you are cremated you ain't coming back when Jebus starts the party bus
Weird, I thought these deities were omniscient, omnipresent and all powerful. You'd think they'd be able to gather up all the little ashes and bits, and make a new body! And what happens to those poor believers who die is fiery car crashes, or house fires? Will they be SOL?
I'm good with being cremated. No service, no fancy urn, no burial plot or mausoleum. Toss my ashes in a landfill, spread them around the town, throw them in a stash box. I'll be long past caring at that point.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I wish I could explain how simple it is.. And as for Jesus existing.. Yes, historically he DID exist.. You need to examine that history.. There IS historical proof of acounts that took place in the Bible.
As for fact based minds.. I feel Bad for those types.. Because you have no ability to grasp alternate aspects of our world. As a Christian we call this outside force if you will God. I have no Idea what the atheists refer to it as.. Or if you even acknowledge that there IS something beyond our mortal 'natural' comprehension, that is out there. Science only covers so much. I have seen people healed through my prayers. And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. That kid was in our camp for the rest of the summer, begging us to teach him about God do he could share with his friends.. It was the ONLY time I ever saw anything like that other than TV evangelists, or sponsored productions. But after that.. Even when I walked away from my faith.. I still KNEW there was a God. So no one can sway my belief.. I'be SEEN MIRACLES.. And I know. But how sad that people can't wrap Their heads around something as simple as.. Believe..
Faith, some have it some do not. I am glad to see you do.
Godfather.
do you believe a broken leg can be healed by human prayer?
I believe in prayer,I've seen something that enforces that but my statement to her was about her faith not healing. and I am not hoping for the total disturction of the world, I personally don't know anybody that is..not even the Christians I know wish that. and as your sig. says "be kind" right ? not a bad idea for all of us.
Godfather.
don't want to answer the question, then?
and whispering basically stated outright that is looking forward to the second coming. this occurs during the rapture/apocalypse, right?
bachmann is a christian. and she is "thanking" obama for bringing the end times nearer, as she puts it. there was that guy who had a radio show who bilked millions from other christians who were marking the rapture on their calendar like it was a family vacation.
if I do what then ? I get into a debate with you and the rest of the non belivers ? I'm not asking you or anybody to change your view so why is so important to and some others to make jokes about a believers faith ? I am not a perfect Christian and I don't stand still in the storm ...so to speak. if you have issues about Christ and need some kind of guidance I hope you find it but I really don't need to explain anything about my faith to espically you as you were once a beliver.
Godfather.
then the discussion continues organically, as it should. I'm not asking you to change your view, I'm trying to ascertain what it is. I have no issues about christ. I don't believe he existed (I have admittedly gone back and forth on the historical "evidence" of such, but either way, whether he was a real man or not is irrelevant to me....there have been zillions of men) and I get my guidance from experience and my parents and others I respect.
I only really make jokes about the extremists, like the people in that GIF posted above. I can only assume you don't fall into that category.
you can ask me questions about my beliefs in extra terrestrials, and make fun throughout that entire thread (there's like 3 pages in a row of just you making alien jokes), but when I ask you a legitimate question about your beliefs, you clam up and go on the defensive claiming you don't have to explain anything to me. Especially to me? not sure why that is. many people grew up believers, for no other reason than indoctrination. a very small portion of the christian population makes the independent choice to believe. they are taught it as fact from birth. so yes, I once believed, but not of my own valition.
I came to the conclusion as a pre-teen that, in my opinion, it was all made up stories for people who are weak minded. I no longer hold that specific position (the weak-minded part), because we all need something to keep us sane. And that position would be inherently judgemental, which I try (and sometimes fail) not to be.
if you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'm really not clear as to why you continue to enter the conversations.
I wish I could explain how simple it is.. And as for Jesus existing.. Yes, historically he DID exist.. You need to examine that history.. There IS historical proof of acounts that took place in the Bible.
As for fact based minds.. I feel Bad for those types.. Because you have no ability to grasp alternate aspects of our world. As a Christian we call this outside force if you will God. I have no Idea what the atheists refer to it as.. Or if you even acknowledge that there IS something beyond our mortal 'natural' comprehension, that is out there. Science only covers so much. I have seen people healed through my prayers. And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. That kid was in our camp for the rest of the summer, begging us to teach him about God do he could share with his friends.. It was the ONLY time I ever saw anything like that other than TV evangelists, or sponsored productions. But after that.. Even when I walked away from my faith.. I still KNEW there was a God. So no one can sway my belief.. I'be SEEN MIRACLES.. And I know. But how sad that people can't wrap Their heads around something as simple as.. Believe..
Faith, some have it some do not. I am glad to see you do.
Godfather.
do you believe a broken leg can be healed by human prayer?
I believe in prayer,I've seen something that enforces that but my statement to her was about her faith not healing. and I am not hoping for the total disturction of the world, I personally don't know anybody that is..not even the Christians I know wish that. and as your sig. says "be kind" right ? not a bad idea for all of us.
Godfather.
don't want to answer the question, then?
and whispering basically stated outright that is looking forward to the second coming. this occurs during the rapture/apocalypse, right?
bachmann is a christian. and she is "thanking" obama for bringing the end times nearer, as she puts it. there was that guy who had a radio show who bilked millions from other christians who were marking the rapture on their calendar like it was a family vacation.
if I do what then ? I get into a debate with you and the rest of the non belivers ? I'm not asking you or anybody to change your view so why is so important to and some others to make jokes about a believers faith ? I am not a perfect Christian and I don't stand still in the storm ...so to speak. if you have issues about Christ and need some kind of guidance I hope you find it but I really don't need to explain anything about my faith to espically you as you were once a beliver.
Godfather.
then the discussion continues organically, as it should. I'm not asking you to change your view, I'm trying to ascertain what it is. I have no issues about christ. I don't believe he existed (I have admittedly gone back and forth on the historical "evidence" of such, but either way, whether he was a real man or not is irrelevant to me....there have been zillions of men) and I get my guidance from experience and my parents and others I respect.
I only really make jokes about the extremists, like the people in that GIF posted above. I can only assume you don't fall into that category.
you can ask me questions about my beliefs in extra terrestrials, and make fun throughout that entire thread (there's like 3 pages in a row of just you making alien jokes), but when I ask you a legitimate question about your beliefs, you clam up and go on the defensive claiming you don't have to explain anything to me. Especially to me? not sure why that is. many people grew up believers, for no other reason than indoctrination. a very small portion of the christian population makes the independent choice to believe. they are taught it as fact from birth. so yes, I once believed, but not of my own valition.
I came to the conclusion as a pre-teen that, in my opinion, it was all made up stories for people who are weak minded. I no longer hold that specific position (the weak-minded part), because we all need something to keep us sane. And that position would be inherently judgemental, which I try (and sometimes fail) not to be.
if you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'm really not clear as to why you continue to enter the conversations.
I always thought my faith was pretty open on here
in a general sense, yes. but I asked a simple question, and you refuse to answer for, I can only assume, fear of mockery. I'm not mocking anyone. I sincerely want to know if and maybe why someone would believe something they believe, as you do the same with other things. if you believe someone can be healed through prayer, by all means, tell us the story of why.
I never said whispering was lying about what she saw. I just disagree as to how/why it occured. if you have an experience you'd be inclined to share to tell us why you believe something you do, by all means, share away. if you don't wish to, fine, but don't paint it as "I don't owe you anything". nobody here owes anyone anything. we're all just hear to discuss. no need to play passive/agressive.
I wish I could explain how simple it is.. And as for Jesus existing.. Yes, historically he DID exist.. You need to examine that history.. There IS historical proof of acounts that took place in the Bible.
As for fact based minds.. I feel Bad for those types.. Because you have no ability to grasp alternate aspects of our world. As a Christian we call this outside force if you will God. I have no Idea what the atheists refer to it as.. Or if you even acknowledge that there IS something beyond our mortal 'natural' comprehension, that is out there. Science only covers so much. I have seen people healed through my prayers. And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. That kid was in our camp for the rest of the summer, begging us to teach him about God do he could share with his friends.. It was the ONLY time I ever saw anything like that other than TV evangelists, or sponsored productions. But after that.. Even when I walked away from my faith.. I still KNEW there was a God. So no one can sway my belief.. I'be SEEN MIRACLES.. And I know. But how sad that people can't wrap Their heads around something as simple as.. Believe..
Faith, some have it some do not. I am glad to see you do.
Godfather.
do you believe a broken leg can be healed by human prayer?
I believe in prayer,I've seen something that enforces that but my statement to her was about her faith not healing. and I am not hoping for the total disturction of the world, I personally don't know anybody that is..not even the Christians I know wish that. and as your sig. says "be kind" right ? not a bad idea for all of us.
Godfather.
don't want to answer the question, then?
and whispering basically stated outright that is looking forward to the second coming. this occurs during the rapture/apocalypse, right?
bachmann is a christian. and she is "thanking" obama for bringing the end times nearer, as she puts it. there was that guy who had a radio show who bilked millions from other christians who were marking the rapture on their calendar like it was a family vacation.
if I do what then ? I get into a debate with you and the rest of the non belivers ? I'm not asking you or anybody to change your view so why is so important to and some others to make jokes about a believers faith ? I am not a perfect Christian and I don't stand still in the storm ...so to speak. if you have issues about Christ and need some kind of guidance I hope you find it but I really don't need to explain anything about my faith to espically you as you were once a beliver.
Godfather.
then the discussion continues organically, as it should. I'm not asking you to change your view, I'm trying to ascertain what it is. I have no issues about christ. I don't believe he existed (I have admittedly gone back and forth on the historical "evidence" of such, but either way, whether he was a real man or not is irrelevant to me....there have been zillions of men) and I get my guidance from experience and my parents and others I respect.
I only really make jokes about the extremists, like the people in that GIF posted above. I can only assume you don't fall into that category.
you can ask me questions about my beliefs in extra terrestrials, and make fun throughout that entire thread (there's like 3 pages in a row of just you making alien jokes), but when I ask you a legitimate question about your beliefs, you clam up and go on the defensive claiming you don't have to explain anything to me. Especially to me? not sure why that is. many people grew up believers, for no other reason than indoctrination. a very small portion of the christian population makes the independent choice to believe. they are taught it as fact from birth. so yes, I once believed, but not of my own valition.
I came to the conclusion as a pre-teen that, in my opinion, it was all made up stories for people who are weak minded. I no longer hold that specific position (the weak-minded part), because we all need something to keep us sane. And that position would be inherently judgemental, which I try (and sometimes fail) not to be.
if you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'm really not clear as to why you continue to enter the conversations.
I always thought my faith was pretty open on here
in a general sense, yes. but I asked a simple question, and you refuse to answer for, I can only assume, fear of mockery. I'm not mocking anyone. I sincerely want to know if and maybe why someone would believe something they believe, as you do the same with other things. if you believe someone can be healed through prayer, by all means, tell us the story of why.
I never said whispering was lying about what she saw. I just disagree as to how/why it occured. if you have an experience you'd be inclined to share to tell us why you believe something you do, by all means, share away. if you don't wish to, fine, but don't paint it as "I don't owe you anything". nobody here owes anyone anything. we're all just hear to discuss. no need to play passive/agressive.
cool enough, yes I believe prayer can heal (but I don't dance with snakes) but as I have said I don't really want to get in the story of why,sorry. if I thought the story I had to tell could make you guys undrstand I would tell it but it's pretty clear that most of the members here have made up thier minds about faith in Christ so I will keep it to myself.
If nothing else.. No Matter the subject, my typos remain freakishly hilarious, I'm going to Laugh allllllll day about do do'ing in my Spirit.. Clean up in Spirit four!
The typos do add a special quality to the posts that is all yours . I particularly liked "joy guys" - I know you meant "you guys", but "joy guy" is so much better.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I wish I could explain how simple it is.. And as for Jesus existing.. Yes, historically he DID exist.. You need to examine that history.. There IS historical proof of acounts that took place in the Bible.
As for fact based minds.. I feel Bad for those types.. Because you have no ability to grasp alternate aspects of our world. As a Christian we call this outside force if you will God. I have no Idea what the atheists refer to it as.. Or if you even acknowledge that there IS something beyond our mortal 'natural' comprehension, that is out there. Science only covers so much. I have seen people healed through my prayers. And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. That kid was in our camp for the rest of the summer, begging us to teach him about God do he could share with his friends.. It was the ONLY time I ever saw anything like that other than TV evangelists, or sponsored productions. But after that.. Even when I walked away from my faith.. I still KNEW there was a God. So no one can sway my belief.. I'be SEEN MIRACLES.. And I know. But how sad that people can't wrap Their heads around something as simple as.. Believe..
Faith, some have it some do not. I am glad to see you do.
Godfather.
do you believe a broken leg can be healed by human prayer?
I believe in prayer,I've seen something that enforces that but my statement to her was about her faith not healing. and I am not hoping for the total disturction of the world, I personally don't know anybody that is..not even the Christians I know wish that. and as your sig. says "be kind" right ? not a bad idea for all of us.
Godfather.
don't want to answer the question, then?
and whispering basically stated outright that is looking forward to the second coming. this occurs during the rapture/apocalypse, right?
bachmann is a christian. and she is "thanking" obama for bringing the end times nearer, as she puts it. there was that guy who had a radio show who bilked millions from other christians who were marking the rapture on their calendar like it was a family vacation.
if I do what then ? I get into a debate with you and the rest of the non belivers ? I'm not asking you or anybody to change your view so why is so important to and some others to make jokes about a believers faith ? I am not a perfect Christian and I don't stand still in the storm ...so to speak. if you have issues about Christ and need some kind of guidance I hope you find it but I really don't need to explain anything about my faith to espically you as you were once a beliver.
Godfather.
then the discussion continues organically, as it should. I'm not asking you to change your view, I'm trying to ascertain what it is. I have no issues about christ. I don't believe he existed (I have admittedly gone back and forth on the historical "evidence" of such, but either way, whether he was a real man or not is irrelevant to me....there have been zillions of men) and I get my guidance from experience and my parents and others I respect.
I only really make jokes about the extremists, like the people in that GIF posted above. I can only assume you don't fall into that category.
you can ask me questions about my beliefs in extra terrestrials, and make fun throughout that entire thread (there's like 3 pages in a row of just you making alien jokes), but when I ask you a legitimate question about your beliefs, you clam up and go on the defensive claiming you don't have to explain anything to me. Especially to me? not sure why that is. many people grew up believers, for no other reason than indoctrination. a very small portion of the christian population makes the independent choice to believe. they are taught it as fact from birth. so yes, I once believed, but not of my own valition.
I came to the conclusion as a pre-teen that, in my opinion, it was all made up stories for people who are weak minded. I no longer hold that specific position (the weak-minded part), because we all need something to keep us sane. And that position would be inherently judgemental, which I try (and sometimes fail) not to be.
if you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'm really not clear as to why you continue to enter the conversations.
I always thought my faith was pretty open on here
in a general sense, yes. but I asked a simple question, and you refuse to answer for, I can only assume, fear of mockery. I'm not mocking anyone. I sincerely want to know if and maybe why someone would believe something they believe, as you do the same with other things. if you believe someone can be healed through prayer, by all means, tell us the story of why.
I never said whispering was lying about what she saw. I just disagree as to how/why it occured. if you have an experience you'd be inclined to share to tell us why you believe something you do, by all means, share away. if you don't wish to, fine, but don't paint it as "I don't owe you anything". nobody here owes anyone anything. we're all just hear to discuss. no need to play passive/agressive.
cool enough, yes I believe prayer can heal (but I don't dance with snakes) but as I have said I don't really want to get in the story of why,sorry. if I thought the story I had to tell could make you guys undrstand I would tell it but it's pretty clear that most of the members here have made up thier minds about faith in Christ so I will keep it to myself.
Godfather.
that is fine, and well within your right. just as an aside, the point of why I'm asking is out of curiosity, and not trying to look for a reason to change my stance.
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
. Like I said. It boils down to a choice. In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe. I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)
It's interesting - as much as it saddened / felt like a loss to my dad that I parted with Judaism, given his history and the huge role it played in his life, it wasn't so much about (belief in) god but about many of the religion's tenets.
He knew my character and heart (yet again I'm struck by how much I am my father's daughter), but when I told him that the lessons and actions demonstrated, taught and learned were evidence enough that I got the major points of life, how to live and treat it...he got it. And he respected it.
Just live life with the basic shit we learned as a kid. I'm agnostic - but if I'm a decent person throughout my life yet don't believe, would I be fucked at some point?
(as an aside, I never understood the term "god-fearing")
I know I've probably asked this before, but has anyone read Gorman Bechards novel called The Second Greatest Story Ever Told? It's about how God decides sending Jesus here 2,000 years ago just didn't work out the way he planned so he sends His daughter, Ilona Coggswater, to earth to take care of matters. Illona has a penchant for Tab and Rolling Rock Beer, is a big Paul Westerberg fan and has one commandment: "be kind". But when she gets pissed, look out!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I know I've probably asked this before, but has anyone read Gorman Bechards novel called The Second Greatest Story Ever Told? It's about how God decides sending Jesus here 2,000 years ago just didn't work out the way he planned so he sends His daughter, Ilona Coggswater, to earth to take care of matters. Illona has a penchant for Tab and Rolling Rock Beer, is a big Paul Westerberg fan and has one commandment: "be kind". But when she gets pissed, look out!
It's interesting - as much as it saddened / felt like a loss to my dad that I parted with Judaism, given his history and the huge role it played in his life, it wasn't so much about (belief in) god but about many of the religion's tenets.
He knew my character and heart (yet again I'm struck by how much I am my father's daughter), but when I told him that the lessons and actions demonstrated, taught and learned were evidence enough that I got the major points of life, how to live and treat it...he got it. And he respected it.
Just live life with the basic shit we learned as a kid. I'm agnostic - but if I'm a decent person throughout my life yet don't believe, would I be fucked at some point?
(as an aside, I never understood the term "god-fearing")
An atheist/agnostic/humanist FB page I follow just discussed "god-fearing". I liked their explanation god fearing = reverence, respect, in religion.
I think I finally felt free to drop all pretense of religious belief when my parents told me that I would never be able to raise moral children if they weren't taught morality through church/religion. I said that if the only way you can get morality is through religion then maybe that is a bigger problem! She still tries to get me to go to church and I still respect her beliefs but for the most part we don't talk about it at all. Makes me sad, like we have lost a connection//that I've moved on//past her//left her behind :(
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
It's interesting - as much as it saddened / felt like a loss to my dad that I parted with Judaism, given his history and the huge role it played in his life, it wasn't so much about (belief in) god but about many of the religion's tenets.
He knew my character and heart (yet again I'm struck by how much I am my father's daughter), but when I told him that the lessons and actions demonstrated, taught and learned were evidence enough that I got the major points of life, how to live and treat it...he got it. And he respected it.
Just live life with the basic shit we learned as a kid. I'm agnostic - but if I'm a decent person throughout my life yet don't believe, would I be fucked at some point?
(as an aside, I never understood the term "god-fearing")
An atheist/agnostic/humanist FB page I follow just discussed "god-fearing". I liked their explanation god fearing = reverence, respect, in religion.
I think I finally felt free to drop all pretense of religious belief when my parents told me that I would never be able to raise moral children if they weren't taught morality through church/religion. I said that if the only way you can get morality is through religion then maybe that is a bigger problem! She still tries to get me to go to church and I still respect her beliefs but for the most part we don't talk about it at all. Makes me sad, like we have lost a connection//that I've moved on//past her//left her behind :(
I can't talk to my mother about politics or religion. EVERY time she ends up in tears because she thinks she failed as a mother because I don't believe in god. She tells me how sad it makes her to know she won't see me after I die. I try to tell her that when we die, we won't see anyone or anything, but she refuses to see my view on it.
We are total opposites on the political landscape as well. She says the same thing. That she feels she failed as a parent because I am for abortion, gay marriage, and lean left on most social issues. So any time religion or politics is brought up, I have to leave the room.
It's interesting - as much as it saddened / felt like a loss to my dad that I parted with Judaism, given his history and the huge role it played in his life, it wasn't so much about (belief in) god but about many of the religion's tenets.
He knew my character and heart (yet again I'm struck by how much I am my father's daughter), but when I told him that the lessons and actions demonstrated, taught and learned were evidence enough that I got the major points of life, how to live and treat it...he got it. And he respected it.
Just live life with the basic shit we learned as a kid. I'm agnostic - but if I'm a decent person throughout my life yet don't believe, would I be fucked at some point?
(as an aside, I never understood the term "god-fearing")
An atheist/agnostic/humanist FB page I follow just discussed "god-fearing". I liked their explanation god fearing = reverence, respect, in religion.
I think I finally felt free to drop all pretense of religious belief when my parents told me that I would never be able to raise moral children if they weren't taught morality through church/religion. I said that if the only way you can get morality is through religion then maybe that is a bigger problem! She still tries to get me to go to church and I still respect her beliefs but for the most part we don't talk about it at all. Makes me sad, like we have lost a connection//that I've moved on//past her//left her behind :(
I can't talk to my mother about politics or religion. EVERY time she ends up in tears because she thinks she failed as a mother because I don't believe in god. She tells me how sad it makes her to know she won't see me after I die. I try to tell her that when we die, we won't see anyone or anything, but she refuses to see my view on it.
We are total opposites on the political landscape as well. She says the same thing. That she feels she failed as a parent because I am for abortion, gay marriage, and lean left on most social issues. So any time religion or politics is brought up, I have to leave the room.
my mom made the same comment a while back about "failing as a parent" because of my stance on god. I find it such a weird thing to say that I would NEVER say to my girls. On one hand, she's trying to say she fucked up. But really, what she is really saying, is that she's disappointed in how I turned out. Thanks Mom!
It's interesting - as much as it saddened / felt like a loss to my dad that I parted with Judaism, given his history and the huge role it played in his life, it wasn't so much about (belief in) god but about many of the religion's tenets.
He knew my character and heart (yet again I'm struck by how much I am my father's daughter), but when I told him that the lessons and actions demonstrated, taught and learned were evidence enough that I got the major points of life, how to live and treat it...he got it. And he respected it.
Just live life with the basic shit we learned as a kid. I'm agnostic - but if I'm a decent person throughout my life yet don't believe, would I be fucked at some point?
(as an aside, I never understood the term "god-fearing")
An atheist/agnostic/humanist FB page I follow just discussed "god-fearing". I liked their explanation god fearing = reverence, respect, in religion.
I think I finally felt free to drop all pretense of religious belief when my parents told me that I would never be able to raise moral children if they weren't taught morality through church/religion. I said that if the only way you can get morality is through religion then maybe that is a bigger problem! She still tries to get me to go to church and I still respect her beliefs but for the most part we don't talk about it at all. Makes me sad, like we have lost a connection//that I've moved on//past her//left her behind :(
I can't talk to my mother about politics or religion. EVERY time she ends up in tears because she thinks she failed as a mother because I don't believe in god. She tells me how sad it makes her to know she won't see me after I die. I try to tell her that when we die, we won't see anyone or anything, but she refuses to see my view on it.
We are total opposites on the political landscape as well. She says the same thing. That she feels she failed as a parent because I am for abortion, gay marriage, and lean left on most social issues. So any time religion or politics is brought up, I have to leave the room.
my mom made the same comment a while back about "failing as a parent" because of my stance on god. I find it such a weird thing to say that I would NEVER say to my girls. On one hand, she's trying to say she fucked up. But really, what she is really saying, is that she's disappointed in how I turned out. Thanks Mom!
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
. Like I said. It boils down to a choice. In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe. I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)
I just can't stand behind the extreme vanity of "worship me and my son or I will burn you for eternity"
There are millions if not billions of people who lead compassionate lives, sowing peace throughout their communities, and helping to alleviate suffering where they can, all without a touch of Jesus worship. A God who condemns out of vanity is beneath my code of moral standards.
And there are Billions born in places that God knows have no way of accepting him as lord and savior. So god knows that 70% of his creations will automatically go to hell.
It just has to suck and be utterly exhausting to justify keeping it all real.
An atheist/agnostic/humanist FB page I follow just discussed "god-fearing". I liked their explanation god fearing = reverence, respect, in religion.
I think I finally felt free to drop all pretense of religious belief when my parents told me that I would never be able to raise moral children if they weren't taught morality through church/religion. I said that if the only way you can get morality is through religion then maybe that is a bigger problem! She still tries to get me to go to church and I still respect her beliefs but for the most part we don't talk about it at all. Makes me sad, like we have lost a connection//that I've moved on//past her//left her behind :(
And yet, from this virtual stranger's perspective of you, and Hugh and Last-12 and others, you are each thoughtful, intelligent, independent thinkers, and well-spoken. I wish some parents would see those aspects, along with the utter lack of failure they perceive.
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
. Like I said. It boils down to a choice. In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe. I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)
I just can't stand behind the extreme vanity of "worship me and my son or I will burn you for eternity"
There are millions if not billions of people who lead compassionate lives, sowing peace throughout their communities, and helping to alleviate suffering where they can, all without a touch of Jesus worship. A God who condemns out of vanity is beneath my code of moral standards.
And there are Billions born in places that God knows have no way of accepting him as lord and savior. So god knows that 70% of his creations will automatically go to hell.
It just has to suck and be utterly exhausting to justify keeping it all real.
God's way of keeping the population of heaven under control
An atheist/agnostic/humanist FB page I follow just discussed "god-fearing". I liked their explanation god fearing = reverence, respect, in religion.
I think I finally felt free to drop all pretense of religious belief when my parents told me that I would never be able to raise moral children if they weren't taught morality through church/religion. I said that if the only way you can get morality is through religion then maybe that is a bigger problem! She still tries to get me to go to church and I still respect her beliefs but for the most part we don't talk about it at all. Makes me sad, like we have lost a connection//that I've moved on//past her//left her behind :(
And yet, from this virtual stranger's perspective of you, and Hugh and Last-12 and others, you are each thoughtful, intelligent, independent thinkers, and well-spoken. I wish some parents would see those aspects, along with the utter lack of failure they perceive.
My mom's comment, in correct context, was actually on reference to she and my brother being the only believers left in the family. My sister, my dad, and myself, have all turned. I think it was more out of exasperation at a discussion we were all having than true disappointment. I think she just goes to church for the singing more than the faith, TBH.
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
. Like I said. It boils down to a choice. In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe. I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)
I just can't stand behind the extreme vanity of "worship me and my son or I will burn you for eternity"
There are millions if not billions of people who lead compassionate lives, sowing peace throughout their communities, and helping to alleviate suffering where they can, all without a touch of Jesus worship. A God who condemns out of vanity is beneath my code of moral standards.
And there are Billions born in places that God knows have no way of accepting him as lord and savior. So god knows that 70% of his creations will automatically go to hell.
It just has to suck and be utterly exhausting to justify keeping it all real.
God's way of keeping the population of heaven under control
This was funny. You have your moments no doubt Scott haha
Someone came in to work today and asked to book the "Pad Thai" Resort in Phuket Thailand. Felt like asking if that was next door to the Green Chicken Curry Hotel. (It's the Padma Resort) Thai names must really confuse people.
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If you are cremated you ain't coming back when Jebus starts the party bus
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so for "the father" to say "fuck you, I created you, and you did not follow my teachings, here, you shall live in hell for all eternity with all of your hethen brothers and sisters and suffer under the rule of the fallen angel" is just downright shitty. and I personally cannot subscribe to the notion of a god that would treat his children in that manner. people call him all loving and merciful. that's actually the very opposite of those two things.
if he knew that many would reject him, it makes no sense that he gave us free will. and this is why so many reject it: it seems as though it is an ideology based on fear of the individual: follow us and give us money, or you will live in hell forever. to me, that's just a way of controlling people, not saving them.
www.headstonesband.com
There are millions if not billions of people who lead compassionate lives, sowing peace throughout their communities, and helping to alleviate suffering where they can, all without a touch of Jesus worship. A God who condemns out of vanity is beneath my code of moral standards.
I'm good with being cremated. No service, no fancy urn, no burial plot or mausoleum. Toss my ashes in a landfill, spread them around the town, throw them in a stash box. I'll be long past caring at that point.
I never said whispering was lying about what she saw. I just disagree as to how/why it occured. if you have an experience you'd be inclined to share to tell us why you believe something you do, by all means, share away. if you don't wish to, fine, but don't paint it as "I don't owe you anything". nobody here owes anyone anything. we're all just hear to discuss. no need to play passive/agressive.
www.headstonesband.com
if I thought the story I had to tell could make you guys undrstand I would tell it but it's pretty clear that most of the members here have made up thier minds about faith in Christ so I will keep it to myself.
Godfather.
www.headstonesband.com
Playing on your fear and your hope.
He knew my character and heart (yet again I'm struck by how much I am my father's daughter), but when I told him that the lessons and actions demonstrated, taught and learned were evidence enough that I got the major points of life, how to live and treat it...he got it. And he respected it.
Just live life with the basic shit we learned as a kid. I'm agnostic - but if I'm a decent person throughout my life yet don't believe, would I be fucked at some point?
(as an aside, I never understood the term "god-fearing")
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I think I finally felt free to drop all pretense of religious belief when my parents told me that I would never be able to raise moral children if they weren't taught morality through church/religion. I said that if the only way you can get morality is through religion then maybe that is a bigger problem! She still tries to get me to go to church and I still respect her beliefs but for the most part we don't talk about it at all. Makes me sad, like we have lost a connection//that I've moved on//past her//left her behind :(
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
We are total opposites on the political landscape as well. She says the same thing. That she feels she failed as a parent because I am for abortion, gay marriage, and lean left on most social issues. So any time religion or politics is brought up, I have to leave the room.
www.headstonesband.com
It just has to suck and be utterly exhausting to justify keeping it all real.
www.headstonesband.com
(It's the Padma Resort) Thai names must really confuse people.