How did the idea of the rapture even take hold in christianity? It isn't even mentioned in the bible is it?
Yes it is. In Revelations. ( the last book in the Bible) but here's the thing.. When John the Baptist was exiled to the isle of Pathos he has a 'vision'. The book of Revelations is that vision written out, translated and retranslated. So a lot seems to get mixed up in there about how it was to be interpreted. Some Christians believe we will be taken from this Earth and not made to suffer further, and all those not 'saved' will be left behind. Others believe we too will be in the Earth during all this crazy Sci Fi stuff goes down... I honestly don't know what to think on that part.. My personal take on it, is that whatever happens, I will slways follow God and not man, so either way, I will be doing the same thing I am Now, just in shittier circumstances.
How did the idea of the rapture even take hold in christianity? It isn't even mentioned in the bible is it?
Yes it is. In Revelations. ( the last book in the Bible) but here's the thing.. When John the Baptist was exiled to the isle of Pathos he has a 'vision'. The book of Revelations is that vision written out, translated and retranslated. So a lot seems to get mixed up in there about how it was to be interpreted. Some Christians believe we will be taken from this Earth and not made to suffer further, and all those not 'saved' will be left behind. Others believe we too will be in the Earth during all this crazy Sci Fi stuff goes down... I honestly don't know what to think on that part.. My personal take on it, is that whatever happens, I will slways follow God and not man, so either way, I will be doing the same thing I am Now, just in shittier circumstances.
So it is in the bible but it isnt because it was lost in translation?
I read the book of revelations back in high school and I don't remember reading about a rapture. If you know, would you tell me which chapter the rapture is in? I'm not going to reread the entire book.
I didn't say I look forward to the destruction of this planet etc. I DO look forward to the second coming of Christ, because it is the end of disillusion. Once and for all, everyone in DISBELIEF, will have no question as to wether there is a God/Jesus and so On. That to me, will be awesome to see.. It's like when you have something great to share, but everyone laughs at you.. Say I found a purple horse.. And I run around telling everyone I found this cool great life changing, mind altering thing, that the general population can't wrap their heads around, because no one has ever seen it.. So when that Purple horse comes trotting down the road one day and everyone sees it, and suddenly people realize I wasn't lying., that is the best part of it.. The second coming of Christ is like that for me.. One day Jesus will return to this Earth, and yes, the score will be settled. But here's the simple beauty in it. We alllllllllllllllllll have free will. We get to choose our place in all of it. I personally choose the right hand of God as where I stand, you have to Make your own choice. Sadly, that really is all there is to it. It is all about faith.
How did the idea of the rapture even take hold in christianity? It isn't even mentioned in the bible is it?
Yes it is. In Revelations. ( the last book in the Bible) but here's the thing.. When John the Baptist was exiled to the isle of Pathos he has a 'vision'. The book of Revelations is that vision written out, translated and retranslated. So a lot seems to get mixed up in there about how it was to be interpreted. Some Christians believe we will be taken from this Earth and not made to suffer further, and all those not 'saved' will be left behind. Others believe we too will be in the Earth during all this crazy Sci Fi stuff goes down... I honestly don't know what to think on that part.. My personal take on it, is that whatever happens, I will slways follow God and not man, so either way, I will be doing the same thing I am Now, just in shittier circumstances.
So it is in the bible but it isnt because it was lost in translation?
I read the book of revelations back in high school and I don't remember reading about a rapture. If you know, would you tell me which chapter the rapture is in? I'm not going to reread the entire book.
I didn't say I look forward to the destruction of this planet etc. I DO look forward to the second coming of Christ, because it is the end of disillusion. Once and for all, everyone in DISBELIEF, will have no question as to wether there is a God/Jesus and so On. That to me, will be awesome to see.. It's like when you have something great to share, but everyone laughs at you.. Say I found a purple horse.. And I run around telling everyone I found this cool great life changing, mind altering thing, that the general population can't wrap their heads around, because no one has ever seen it.. So when that Purple horse comes trotting down the road one day and everyone sees it, and suddenly people realize I wasn't lying., that is the best part of it.. The second coming of Christ is like that for me.. One day Jesus will return to this Earth, and yes, the score will be settled. But here's the simple beauty in it. We alllllllllllllllllll have free will. We get to choose our place in all of it. I personally choose the right hand of God as where I stand, you have to Make your own choice. Sadly, that really is all there is to it. It is all about faith.
I would think it would be about ending suffering and not settling the score... But, it won't be an end to suffering will it? The God of the Bible seems to indicate that there is an acceptable amount of suffering through every stage of his creation on into eternity. Kinda twisted to me!
It is in Chapter 3, in God's judgement of the 7 churches. Some churches are 'lukewarm', some, some are 'cold'.. Etc. so it starts in verse7-13. There's a better mention of the things to come and the Rapture, too in other books of the Bible as well. Like 1thesselonians 4:16,17. So It's not just in one place.
I wish I could explain how simple it is.. And as for Jesus existing.. Yes, historically he DID exist.. You need to examine that history.. There IS historical proof of acounts that took place in the Bible.
As for fact based minds.. I feel Bad for those types.. Because you have no ability to grasp alternate aspects of our world. As a Christian we call this outside force if you will God. I have no Idea what the atheists refer to it as.. Or if you even acknowledge that there IS something beyond our mortal 'natural' comprehension, that is out there. Science only covers so much. I have seen people healed through my prayers. And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. That kid was in our camp for the rest of the summer, begging us to teach him about God do he could share with his friends.. It was the ONLY time I ever saw anything like that other than TV evangelists, or sponsored productions. But after that.. Even when I walked away from my faith.. I still KNEW there was a God. So no one can sway my belief.. I'be SEEN MIRACLES.. And I know. But how sad that people can't wrap Their heads around something as simple as.. Believe..
Faith, some have it some do not. I am glad to see you do.
Godfather.
do you believe a broken leg can be healed by human prayer?
I believe in prayer,I've seen something that enforces that but my statement to her was about her faith not healing. and I am not hoping for the total disturction of the world, I personally don't know anybody that is..not even the Christians I know wish that. and as your sig. says "be kind" right ? not a bad idea for all of us.
Godfather.
don't want to answer the question, then?
and whispering basically stated outright that is looking forward to the second coming. this occurs during the rapture/apocalypse, right?
bachmann is a christian. and she is "thanking" obama for bringing the end times nearer, as she puts it. there was that guy who had a radio show who bilked millions from other christians who were marking the rapture on their calendar like it was a family vacation.
if I do what then ? I get into a debate with you and the rest of the non belivers ? I'm not asking you or anybody to change your view so why is so important to and some others to make jokes about a believers faith ? I am not a perfect Christian and I don't stand still in the storm ...so to speak. if you have issues about Christ and need some kind of guidance I hope you find it but I really don't need to explain anything about my faith to espically you as you were once a beliver.
Godfather.
then the discussion continues organically, as it should. I'm not asking you to change your view, I'm trying to ascertain what it is. I have no issues about christ. I don't believe he existed (I have admittedly gone back and forth on the historical "evidence" of such, but either way, whether he was a real man or not is irrelevant to me....there have been zillions of men) and I get my guidance from experience and my parents and others I respect.
I only really make jokes about the extremists, like the people in that GIF posted above. I can only assume you don't fall into that category.
you can ask me questions about my beliefs in extra terrestrials, and make fun throughout that entire thread (there's like 3 pages in a row of just you making alien jokes), but when I ask you a legitimate question about your beliefs, you clam up and go on the defensive claiming you don't have to explain anything to me. Especially to me? not sure why that is. many people grew up believers, for no other reason than indoctrination. a very small portion of the christian population makes the independent choice to believe. they are taught it as fact from birth. so yes, I once believed, but not of my own valition.
I came to the conclusion as a pre-teen that, in my opinion, it was all made up stories for people who are weak minded. I no longer hold that specific position (the weak-minded part), because we all need something to keep us sane. And that position would be inherently judgemental, which I try (and sometimes fail) not to be.
if you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'm really not clear as to why you continue to enter the conversations.
does no one else find it inherently fucked up that people who believe in the second coming that they are HOPING FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PLANET AND OUR ENTIRE SPECIES??? that is completely fucked up and narcisisstic to me.
Thank you, Hugh. You said this so much for succinctly and to the point than I did with my rambling. I'm not sure ALL people who believe in the second coming hope for the planet's destruction but it's a REALLY common mind set.
As for "The End is Near"... ha! That phrase has been used so long and so erroneously that it has become self descriptively humorous. Quite a few cartoonists have done well with it.
The end of something is happening everyday. Which species will it be today? The end of ours may come soon too. But it's interesting that we hear so much about how we are doomed rather than what we can do to fix things so that we can carry on for quite a lot more time.
The way I see it, we humans have large enough brains to be able to figure out how to carry on for quite a while. If we really tried to, we could do that. I'm fairly certain of that. But if we don't use our brains and resolve the mess we've made then maybe we deserve to do ourselves in. But really? What a waste. Wouldn't it make more sense to start resolving as many of the problems as possible?
And I'd bet ten buck Hugh could have said all that in about 1/4 of the words.
Take it, Hugh.
it's in our nature to destroy ourselves. some christians just have a need to explain it in supernatural terms, rather than natural.
1Thessalonuans 4:16,17 says: For the Lord Himself wil descend from Heavenwith a shout,with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ wil rise first. ( literaly the dead who were believers for allllll these centuries even before any of this lined up with scripture like it does now, will rise from the dead; I don't know if it is their actual 'bodies' etc..) Then, we whom are alive and remain, ( here on earth) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lordin the air. And this we shall alwaysbe with the Lord. Therefore, comfort each other with these words..
I didn't say I look forward to the destruction of this planet etc. I DO look forward to the second coming of Christ, because it is the end of disillusion. Once and for all, everyone in DISBELIEF, will have no question as to wether there is a God/Jesus and so On. That to me, will be awesome to see.. It's like when you have something great to share, but everyone laughs at you.. Say I found a purple horse.. And I run around telling everyone I found this cool great life changing, mind altering thing, that the general population can't wrap their heads around, because no one has ever seen it.. So when that Purple horse comes trotting down the road one day and everyone sees it, and suddenly people realize I wasn't lying., that is the best part of it.. The second coming of Christ is like that for me.. One day Jesus will return to this Earth, and yes, the score will be settled. But here's the simple beauty in it. We alllllllllllllllllll have free will. We get to choose our place in all of it. I personally choose the right hand of God as where I stand, you have to Make your own choice. Sadly, that really is all there is to it. It is all about faith.
But, the way this is worded, it sounds like looking forward to those "in your FACE!" and "See, I told ya!" moments. There doesn't seem to be kindness or compassion behind that.
What is the score to be settled? Between whom? And why?
I guess I'm trying to reconcile some of the posts and thoughts, WH, given other unrelated comments of yours, plus your obvious love and knowledge of animals. Would they too be left behind with other non-believers?
I wish I could explain how simple it is.. And as for Jesus existing.. Yes, historically he DID exist.. You need to examine that history.. There IS historical proof of acounts that took place in the Bible.
As for fact based minds.. I feel Bad for those types.. Because you have no ability to grasp alternate aspects of our world. As a Christian we call this outside force if you will God. I have no Idea what the atheists refer to it as.. Or if you even acknowledge that there IS something beyond our mortal 'natural' comprehension, that is out there. Science only covers so much. I have seen people healed through my prayers. And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. That kid was in our camp for the rest of the summer, begging us to teach him about God do he could share with his friends.. It was the ONLY time I ever saw anything like that other than TV evangelists, or sponsored productions. But after that.. Even when I walked away from my faith.. I still KNEW there was a God. So no one can sway my belief.. I'be SEEN MIRACLES.. And I know. But how sad that people can't wrap Their heads around something as simple as.. Believe..
I have to say, I agree with everything Drowned said.
the notion that you "feel sorry for" people who don't believe as you do is condescending at best, not to mention against everything Jesus is said to have stood for.
and you healed a broken leg with your prayers? um.....I'll leave that one alone.
I never said I healed it. I said I prayed, the next day that kid was THERE, running and playing like the others. And I was not meaning to sound condescending. It is just something you have to experience in s personal aspect. I can't MAKE ANYONE BELIEVE. But I can live my Life as honest, and loving and wisely as I am humanly able. It is not easy. I fuck it up allllll the time.... Trust me, I fail more often than I get it right.. But that's the thing. You don't have to be perfect to believe in God. It just is what it is, you choose to believe or not. I guess I'm not the best representative here.. But I just keep getting up and trying again. Thanks for at least putting up with me.:-)
to be fair, it was inferred, through cause and effect. You stated:
"And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. "
maybe you didn't mean YOU healed him magically, but you inferred that the prayer that YOU said was the reason he healed. is that not exactly the claim those televangelists make? they aren't claiming THEY healed a person. they are claiming their prayers found their way to god and healed them. a spiritual conduit, if you will.
no one is trying to convince you to change your mind. at least I don't. I know there's no point to that, no more point than a religious person trying to do that with me. it's something they need to decide for themselves.
and everyone realizes that the GIF posted is not the majority. it's just easy to poke fun at such absolute ridiculousness.
and it's not "sad" that people don't believe.
and show me the historical proof of jesus. there is none, to my knowledge. as gern said earlier, everything mentioning his name was written a hundred or more years after his supposed existence. that's not proof. that's no more proof than the existence of james bond.
I wish I could explain how simple it is.. And as for Jesus existing.. Yes, historically he DID exist.. You need to examine that history.. There IS historical proof of acounts that took place in the Bible.
As for fact based minds.. I feel Bad for those types.. Because you have no ability to grasp alternate aspects of our world. As a Christian we call this outside force if you will God. I have no Idea what the atheists refer to it as.. Or if you even acknowledge that there IS something beyond our mortal 'natural' comprehension, that is out there. Science only covers so much. I have seen people healed through my prayers. And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. That kid was in our camp for the rest of the summer, begging us to teach him about God do he could share with his friends.. It was the ONLY time I ever saw anything like that other than TV evangelists, or sponsored productions. But after that.. Even when I walked away from my faith.. I still KNEW there was a God. So no one can sway my belief.. I'be SEEN MIRACLES.. And I know. But how sad that people can't wrap Their heads around something as simple as.. Believe..
I have to say, I agree with everything Drowned said.
the notion that you "feel sorry for" people who don't believe as you do is condescending at best, not to mention against everything Jesus is said to have stood for.
and you healed a broken leg with your prayers? um.....I'll leave that one alone.
I never said I healed it. I said I prayed, the next day that kid was THERE, running and playing like the others. And I was not meaning to sound condescending. It is just something you have to experience in s personal aspect. I can't MAKE ANYONE BELIEVE. But I can live my Life as honest, and loving and wisely as I am humanly able. It is not easy. I fuck it up allllll the time.... Trust me, I fail more often than I get it right.. But that's the thing. You don't have to be perfect to believe in God. It just is what it is, you choose to believe or not. I guess I'm not the best representative here.. But I just keep getting up and trying again. Thanks for at least putting up with me.:-)
to be fair, it was inferred, through cause and effect. You stated:
"And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. "
maybe you didn't mean YOU healed him magically, but you inferred that the prayer that YOU said was the reason he healed. is that not exactly the claim those televangelists make? they aren't claiming THEY healed a person. they are claiming their prayers found their way to god and healed them. a spiritual conduit, if you will.
no one is trying to convince you to change your mind. at least I don't. I know there's no point to that, no more point than a religious person trying to do that with me. it's something they need to decide for themselves.
and everyone realizes that the GIF posted is not the majority. it's just easy to poke fun at such absolute ridiculousness.
and it's not "sad" that people don't believe.
and show me the historical proof of jesus. there is none, to my knowledge. as gern said earlier, everything mentioning his name was written a hundred or more years after his supposed existence. that's not proof. that's no more proof than the existence of james bond.
Actually, there's more contemporaneous evidence for the existence of James Bond, or at least the real agent that James Bond was based on (granted the legend has been elaborated upon a bit, in a similar fashion).
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I didn't say I look forward to the destruction of this planet etc. I DO look forward to the second coming of Christ, because it is the end of disillusion. Once and for all, everyone in DISBELIEF, will have no question as to wether there is a God/Jesus and so On. That to me, will be awesome to see.. It's like when you have something great to share, but everyone laughs at you.. Say I found a purple horse.. And I run around telling everyone I found this cool great life changing, mind altering thing, that the general population can't wrap their heads around, because no one has ever seen it.. So when that Purple horse comes trotting down the road one day and everyone sees it, and suddenly people realize I wasn't lying., that is the best part of it.. The second coming of Christ is like that for me.. One day Jesus will return to this Earth, and yes, the score will be settled. But here's the simple beauty in it. We alllllllllllllllllll have free will. We get to choose our place in all of it. I personally choose the right hand of God as where I stand, you have to Make your own choice. Sadly, that really is all there is to it. It is all about faith.
but you didn't find a purple horse. you saw hoofprints and made the assumption the horse was purple.
and there's a little too much "see, I told ya so!" in your looking forward to the second coming that turns me off. kind of like a revenge thing. at least that's how I interpret it.
I can only apologize for it sounding that way. As for settling the score that lies upon the age old score in battle between good and evil. Period. It has nothing to do with neener neener, or anything. I have tried my best to present my faith, and to hopefully shed light into areas of question.. Though a queried mind will always remain wondering, such is the way of human nature, so while I can't answer all of joy guys' questions, I have done my best to answer what I could.
As for prayer, it is a practice in FAITH. Sometimes, they go unanswered. Sometimes, like in the case of the little boy with the broken leg.. ( let me just re-iterate, we were in them mountains of HAITI.. There are no doctors there to 'cast' broken bones.. It was just his swollen, blistered and mangled leg., he was sick, probably from infection... I walked over, he spoke English, I asked him if I could pray for him, because I felt bad, and to be honest, led to do do in my spirit. He hobbled away, ghe next morning he came running I to camp shout Jezu Alleaveh.. Which in Creole means Jesus lives. He ran and played with his friends, telling everyone who's listen about the encounter.. It didn't end all sweet and nice.. It ended with a VooDoo chapter from the hills above threatening our lives.. There's a bit more than just that to it though..) I didn't know if my prayer would work... Shit, I was still stuck on you had to be all holy when you prayed.. But it DID work, and there was NO denying a greater force that day. And that day set in motion the end of the missions trip, which was to go dig a well for that community, and build them a school house. It challenged the VooDoo belief so much so, that they threatened to burn the village down if we were still there.. In the end, between that and the political discourse in Haiti in 1985-6, we were forced out. But it still to this day is an encouragement to me. I KNOW my faith has effect now. I can now no longer say, but it's just me.. God won't hear my insignificant little prayer.. Cause after that experience I now know ghe power if prayer; an exercise in faith.
So, I guess if you have any further questions, you may PM me. As for further debate, I don't feel I am able to fairly debate this, as I am still learning the truth behind what I read now. ( back in the day, I had it ALLL twisted.. I was ghe living version of Metallica's Hollier Than Thou. I was the reason most of you probably dislike Christians.. Now I am Learning that it's true purpose is love, humility, and Grace.. Things that naturally unnatural to the HUMAN concept.)
If nothing else.. No Matter the subject, my typos remain freakishly hilarious, I'm going to Laugh allllllll day about do do'ing in my Spirit.. Clean up in Spirit four!
I can only apologize for it sounding that way. As for settling the score that lies upon the age old score in battle between good and evil. Period. It has nothing to do with neener neener, or anything. I have tried my best to present my faith, and to hopefully shed light into areas of question.. Though a queried mind will always remain wondering, such is the way of human nature, so while I can't answer all of joy guys' questions, I have done my best to answer what I could.
As for prayer, it is a practice in FAITH. Sometimes, they go unanswered. Sometimes, like in the case of the little boy with the broken leg.. ( let me just re-iterate, we were in them mountains of HAITI.. There are no doctors there to 'cast' broken bones.. It was just his swollen, blistered and mangled leg., he was sick, probably from infection... I walked over, he spoke English, I asked him if I could pray for him, because I felt bad, and to be honest, led to do do in my spirit. He hobbled away, ghe next morning he came running I to camp shout Jezu Alleaveh.. Which in Creole means Jesus lives. He ran and played with his friends, telling everyone who's listen about the encounter.. It didn't end all sweet and nice.. It ended with a VooDoo chapter from the hills above threatening our lives.. There's a bit more than just that to it though..) I didn't know if my prayer would work... Shit, I was still stuck on you had to be all holy when you prayed.. But it DID work, and there was NO denying a greater force that day. And that day set in motion the end of the missions trip, which was to go dig a well for that community, and build them a school house. It challenged the VooDoo belief so much so, that they threatened to burn the village down if we were still there.. In the end, between that and the political discourse in Haiti in 1985-6, we were forced out. But it still to this day is an encouragement to me. I KNOW my faith has effect now. I can now no longer say, but it's just me.. God won't hear my insignificant little prayer.. Cause after that experience I now know ghe power if prayer; an exercise in faith.
So, I guess if you have any further questions, you may PM me. As for further debate, I don't feel I am able to fairly debate this, as I am still learning the truth behind what I read now. ( back in the day, I had it ALLL twisted.. I was ghe living version of Metallica's Hollier Than Thou. I was the reason most of you probably dislike Christians.. Now I am Learning that it's true purpose is love, humility, and Grace.. Things that naturally unnatural to the HUMAN concept.)
I can only speak for myself. I don't dislike ALL christians. I dislike some humans who happen to be christian. a lot of non-christians display the same type of behaviour as some christians do, and not even spiritual ones. some people are car salesmen, some aren't.
I think a lot of people start out as holier than thou. not sure why, but I can only guess that it's because they are so excited about their newfound ideas/personal truth/etc, that they can't understand why someone would reject their attempts to share those ideas with them, but they don't realize that it is an incredibly personal choice and people feel intruded upon when someone is in their face challenging their beliefs as incorrect. at least that's what I got from my experience with my brother when he had his "epiphany" or whatever you want to call it in his 20's.
I can only apologize for it sounding that way. As for settling the score that lies upon the age old score in battle between good and evil. Period. It has nothing to do with neener neener, or anything. I have tried my best to present my faith, and to hopefully shed light into areas of question.. Though a queried mind will always remain wondering, such is the way of human nature, so while I can't answer all of joy guys' questions, I have done my best to answer what I could.
No need for me to pm you on this; I won't pry (though you put it out there!) and wouldn't expect you to keep defending yourself/your beliefs. They're yours as OURS are ours - and my point was, don't make yours, mine. And don't tsk-tsk me for it (it did come across that way, more than once).
Settling the score - still don't get that. If the rapture is indeed about good vs evil, what does it say about those who won't be lifted. Am I considered evil?
And again, the animals?
(also, do you not have a "preview" function where you can edit before posting? The typos and odd sentence breaks are fucking with me )
I can only apologize for it sounding that way. As for settling the score that lies upon the age old score in battle between good and evil. Period. It has nothing to do with neener neener, or anything. I have tried my best to present my faith, and to hopefully shed light into areas of question.. Though a queried mind will always remain wondering, such is the way of human nature, so while I can't answer all of joy guys' questions, I have done my best to answer what I could.
No need for me to pm you on this; I won't pry (though you put it out there!) and wouldn't expect you to keep defending yourself/your beliefs. They're yours as OURS are ours - and my point was, don't make yours, mine. And don't tsk-tsk me for it (it did come across that way, more than once).
Settling the score - still don't get that. If the rapture is indeed about good vs evil, what does it say about those who won't be lifted. Am I considered evil?
And again, the animals?
(also, do you not have a "preview" function where you can edit before posting? The typos and odd sentence breaks are fucking with me )
What do you mean by 'the animals'?
And yes I have the preview option, I have yet to ever so wisely make use of it! ;-) It makes things more entertaining, if not equally aggravating.
I can only apologize for it sounding that way. As for settling the score that lies upon the age old score in battle between good and evil. Period. It has nothing to do with neener neener, or anything. I have tried my best to present my faith, and to hopefully shed light into areas of question.. Though a queried mind will always remain wondering, such is the way of human nature, so while I can't answer all of joy guys' questions, I have done my best to answer what I could.
No need for me to pm you on this; I won't pry (though you put it out there!) and wouldn't expect you to keep defending yourself/your beliefs. They're yours as OURS are ours - and my point was, don't make yours, mine. And don't tsk-tsk me for it (it did come across that way, more than once).
Settling the score - still don't get that. If the rapture is indeed about good vs evil, what does it say about those who won't be lifted. Am I considered evil?
And again, the animals?
(also, do you not have a "preview" function where you can edit before posting? The typos and odd sentence breaks are fucking with me )
What do you mean by 'the animals'?
And yes I have the preview option, I have yet to ever so wisely make use of it! ;-) It makes things more entertaining, if not equally aggravating.
like, literally, animals. dogs, cats, cows, meese. etc.
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
I can only apologize for it sounding that way. As for settling the score that lies upon the age old score in battle between good and evil. Period. It has nothing to do with neener neener, or anything. I have tried my best to present my faith, and to hopefully shed light into areas of question.. Though a queried mind will always remain wondering, such is the way of human nature, so while I can't answer all of joy guys' questions, I have done my best to answer what I could.
No need for me to pm you on this; I won't pry (though you put it out there!) and wouldn't expect you to keep defending yourself/your beliefs. They're yours as OURS are ours - and my point was, don't make yours, mine. And don't tsk-tsk me for it (it did come across that way, more than once).
Settling the score - still don't get that. If the rapture is indeed about good vs evil, what does it say about those who won't be lifted. Am I considered evil?
And again, the animals?
(also, do you not have a "preview" function where you can edit before posting? The typos and odd sentence breaks are fucking with me )
What do you mean by 'the animals'?
And yes I have the preview option, I have yet to ever so wisely make use of it! ;-) It makes things more entertaining, if not equally aggravating.
like, literally, animals. dogs, cats, cows, meese. etc.
I honestly don't know. I do know that everything was designed with purpose, all the way down to the beginning of the earth, Dinosaurs etc.. Horses are mentioned in the book of revelations, but as for animals in general, I would hope that as innocents, they would be saved..but I honestly can' answer that.
You don't want to know the answer to The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not. And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
You don't have a problem with a God that thinks it is ok to torture It's subject for disbelief?? I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
. Like I said. It boils down to a choice. In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe. I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)
I can only apologize for it sounding that way. As for settling the score that lies upon the age old score in battle between good and evil. Period. It has nothing to do with neener neener, or anything. I have tried my best to present my faith, and to hopefully shed light into areas of question.. Though a queried mind will always remain wondering, such is the way of human nature, so while I can't answer all of joy guys' questions, I have done my best to answer what I could.
As for prayer, it is a practice in FAITH. Sometimes, they go unanswered. Sometimes, like in the case of the little boy with the broken leg.. ( let me just re-iterate, we were in them mountains of HAITI.. There are no doctors there to 'cast' broken bones.. It was just his swollen, blistered and mangled leg., he was sick, probably from infection... I walked over, he spoke English, I asked him if I could pray for him, because I felt bad, and to be honest, led to do do in my spirit. He hobbled away, ghe next morning he came running I to camp shout Jezu Alleaveh.. Which in Creole means Jesus lives. He ran and played with his friends, telling everyone who's listen about the encounter.. It didn't end all sweet and nice.. It ended with a VooDoo chapter from the hills above threatening our lives.. There's a bit more than just that to it though..) I didn't know if my prayer would work... Shit, I was still stuck on you had to be all holy when you prayed.. But it DID work, and there was NO denying a greater force that day. And that day set in motion the end of the missions trip, which was to go dig a well for that community, and build them a school house. It challenged the VooDoo belief so much so, that they threatened to burn the village down if we were still there.. In the end, between that and the political discourse in Haiti in 1985-6, we were forced out. But it still to this day is an encouragement to me. I KNOW my faith has effect now. I can now no longer say, but it's just me.. God won't hear my insignificant little prayer.. Cause after that experience I now know ghe power if prayer; an exercise in faith.
So, I guess if you have any further questions, you may PM me. As for further debate, I don't feel I am able to fairly debate this, as I am still learning the truth behind what I read now. ( back in the day, I had it ALLL twisted.. I was ghe living version of Metallica's Hollier Than Thou. I was the reason most of you probably dislike Christians.. Now I am Learning that it's true purpose is love, humility, and Grace.. Things that naturally unnatural to the HUMAN concept.)
I can only speak for myself. I don't dislike ALL christians. I dislike some humans who happen to be christian. a lot of non-christians display the same type of behaviour as some christians do, and not even spiritual ones. some people are car salesmen, some aren't.
I think a lot of people start out as holier than thou. not sure why, but I can only guess that it's because they are so excited about their newfound ideas/personal truth/etc, that they can't understand why someone would reject their attempts to share those ideas with them, but they don't realize that it is an incredibly personal choice and people feel intruded upon when someone is in their face challenging their beliefs as incorrect. at least that's what I got from my experience with my brother when he had his "epiphany" or whatever you want to call it in his 20's.
I would go to church more often if this guy was my local preacher ...
WTF??? LMAO!!!
"here I stand, wielding the suit jacket of PENNANCE!! come before me, so thou can be sacrificed to the will of the thread!!!"
Oh lordy, I'll bet these folks are the type who spout gibberish on purpose and then claim the spirit took them and spoke through them. Look at the way they take a dive after getting hit...shameful, even worse than futbol!
Lol, they should all get yellow cards for simulation.
Jebus, those people are wacky.
Fuck that Jeff, straight reds for all of them.
Yes! Especially the preacher. I'd send him off and give him a 3 match ban for violent conduct.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Comments
Now, just in shittier circumstances.
I read the book of revelations back in high school and I don't remember reading about a rapture. If you know, would you tell me which chapter the rapture is in? I'm not going to reread the entire book.
On. That to me, will be awesome to see.. It's like when you have something great to share, but everyone laughs at you.. Say I found a purple horse.. And I run around telling everyone I found this cool great life changing, mind altering thing, that the general population can't wrap their heads around, because no one has ever seen it.. So when that Purple horse comes trotting down the road one day and everyone sees it, and suddenly people realize I wasn't lying., that is the best part of it.. The second coming of Christ is like that for me.. One day Jesus will return to this Earth, and yes, the score will be settled. But here's the simple beauty in it. We alllllllllllllllllll have free will. We get to choose our place in all of it. I personally choose the right hand of God as where I stand, you have to
Make your own choice. Sadly, that really is all there is to it. It is all about faith.
The God of the Bible seems to indicate that there is an acceptable amount of suffering through every stage of his creation on into eternity.
Kinda twisted to me!
It's not just in one place.
I only really make jokes about the extremists, like the people in that GIF posted above. I can only assume you don't fall into that category.
you can ask me questions about my beliefs in extra terrestrials, and make fun throughout that entire thread (there's like 3 pages in a row of just you making alien jokes), but when I ask you a legitimate question about your beliefs, you clam up and go on the defensive claiming you don't have to explain anything to me. Especially to me? not sure why that is. many people grew up believers, for no other reason than indoctrination. a very small portion of the christian population makes the independent choice to believe. they are taught it as fact from birth. so yes, I once believed, but not of my own valition.
I came to the conclusion as a pre-teen that, in my opinion, it was all made up stories for people who are weak minded. I no longer hold that specific position (the weak-minded part), because we all need something to keep us sane. And that position would be inherently judgemental, which I try (and sometimes fail) not to be.
if you don't want to discuss your beliefs, I'm really not clear as to why you continue to enter the conversations.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
For the Lord Himself wil descend from Heavenwith a shout,with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ wil rise first. ( literaly the dead who were believers for allllll these centuries even before any of this lined up with scripture like it does now, will rise from the dead; I don't know if it is their actual 'bodies' etc..) Then, we whom are alive and remain, ( here on earth) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lordin the air. And this we shall alwaysbe with the Lord. Therefore, comfort each other with these words..
What is the score to be settled? Between whom? And why?
I guess I'm trying to reconcile some of the posts and thoughts, WH, given other unrelated comments of yours, plus your obvious love and knowledge of animals. Would they too be left behind with other non-believers?
"And I'm not a charlatan preacher seeding 'lame' folks into my audience, yet when I was 13, I prayed over a child with a broken leg, and the very next day, saw that same child RUN into our encampment yelling in Creole that he woke up and he could walk.. He hobbled home on crutches, leg still broken, and it was OBVIOUSLY broken... But tan back to school the next day.. "
maybe you didn't mean YOU healed him magically, but you inferred that the prayer that YOU said was the reason he healed. is that not exactly the claim those televangelists make? they aren't claiming THEY healed a person. they are claiming their prayers found their way to god and healed them. a spiritual conduit, if you will.
no one is trying to convince you to change your mind. at least I don't. I know there's no point to that, no more point than a religious person trying to do that with me. it's something they need to decide for themselves.
and everyone realizes that the GIF posted is not the majority. it's just easy to poke fun at such absolute ridiculousness.
and it's not "sad" that people don't believe.
and show me the historical proof of jesus. there is none, to my knowledge. as gern said earlier, everything mentioning his name was written a hundred or more years after his supposed existence. that's not proof. that's no more proof than the existence of james bond.
www.headstonesband.com
and there's a little too much "see, I told ya so!" in your looking forward to the second coming that turns me off. kind of like a revenge thing. at least that's how I interpret it.
www.headstonesband.com
As for prayer, it is a practice in FAITH. Sometimes, they go unanswered. Sometimes, like in the case of the little boy with the broken leg.. ( let me just re-iterate, we were in them mountains of HAITI.. There are no doctors there to 'cast' broken bones.. It was just his swollen, blistered and mangled leg., he was sick, probably from infection... I walked over, he spoke English, I asked him if I could pray for him, because I felt bad, and to be honest, led to do do in my spirit. He hobbled away, ghe next morning he came running I to camp shout Jezu Alleaveh.. Which in Creole means Jesus lives. He ran and played with his friends, telling everyone who's listen about the encounter.. It didn't end all sweet and nice.. It ended with a VooDoo chapter from the hills above threatening our lives.. There's a bit more than just that to it though..) I didn't know if my prayer would work... Shit, I was still stuck on you had to be all holy when you prayed.. But it DID work, and there was NO denying a greater force that day. And that day set in motion the end of the missions trip, which was to go dig a well for that community, and build them a school house. It challenged the VooDoo belief so much so, that they threatened to burn the village down if we were still there.. In the end, between that and the political discourse in Haiti in 1985-6, we were forced out. But it still to this day is an encouragement to me. I KNOW my faith has effect now. I can now no longer say, but it's just me.. God won't hear my insignificant little prayer.. Cause after that experience I now know ghe power if prayer; an exercise in faith.
So, I guess if you have any further questions, you may PM me. As for further debate, I don't feel I am able to fairly debate this, as I am still learning the truth behind what I read now. ( back in the day, I had it ALLL twisted.. I was ghe living version of Metallica's Hollier Than Thou. I was the reason most of you probably dislike Christians.. Now I am
Learning that it's true purpose is love, humility, and Grace.. Things that naturally unnatural to the HUMAN concept.)
Matter the subject, my typos remain freakishly hilarious, I'm going to
Laugh allllllll day about do do'ing in my Spirit.. Clean up in Spirit four!
I think a lot of people start out as holier than thou. not sure why, but I can only guess that it's because they are so excited about their newfound ideas/personal truth/etc, that they can't understand why someone would reject their attempts to share those ideas with them, but they don't realize that it is an incredibly personal choice and people feel intruded upon when someone is in their face challenging their beliefs as incorrect. at least that's what I got from my experience with my brother when he had his "epiphany" or whatever you want to call it in his 20's.
www.headstonesband.com
Settling the score - still don't get that. If the rapture is indeed about good vs evil, what does it say about those who won't be lifted. Am I considered evil?
And again, the animals?
(also, do you not have a "preview" function where you can edit before posting? The typos and odd sentence breaks are fucking with me
www.headstonesband.com
And yes I have the preview option, I have yet to ever so wisely make use of it! ;-)
It makes things more entertaining, if not equally aggravating.
www.headstonesband.com
The question of what happens to those who remain! lol, but let's just say it's the basis upon which, many preachers cast the whke Fire and Brimmstone sermons. Like I said earlier. It boils down to a choice.. Period, you choose to believe or not.
And I respect you, at least you have fairly asked questions, with no animosity, no judgement, just pure curiosity. And I appreciate that. I will never again brow beat somebody into Salvation, as we call it. ( basically believing) I now know that the best way to present the teachings of Christ is to live them out day by day. Something's require faith, a LOT of it. Like what I'm going through now.. I have no idea, if what I'm experiencing physically is life threatening. Not until I go see the doctor on Tuesday and request testing.. But it's bad enough that I've handed over the keys to my car, because after two days ago, I don't feel it's safe for me to be on the road; in control of a 2000 lb vehicle, when I can't control the sudden muscle spasms in my arms and legs, and I can't control the sudden fatigue burnout.. So I had to make a very hard decision. But I
Have FAITH.. That there is a purpose to my going through this..
And my being HERE in these forums is another faith issue. Why AM I still here. I believe there is a reason. I was perfectly content letting my membership go. A little whiny.. Yeah, my human nature decided to show a little.. I've been here on these forums for twenty years now.. So I got attached to the idea of long distance friends.. But I was willing to walk away.. But that's not what happened, is it?? So faith is everywhere, for me., I just have to wait things out and see what happens for myself.
But again. Thank you for the honest debate.
www.headstonesband.com
I can't see how a compassionate person like you doesn't struggle with this.
In the end.. We are accountable for our every thought action and impositions. Period. This judgement that comes, will be based upon the things we did whke choosing to either bieve or disbelieve, if you choose to disbelieve, then YOU pay that price. But if you choose to believe that when Christ died..( I know you don't think he existed..) hePAID that price for those who DO believe.
I'm not dure if that makes anymore sense.. I may have just confused you more, which is why I feel I shouldn't be the one trying to explain this..:-)