Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
All I want to know, right now, is what is known of this incident. Obviously, it's fucking murder. Was it a racial thing? Don't know. Do you, without a doubt?
I don't "believe" anything, I'm asking questions.
The nerve of me!
Do you "think" there is a cultural problem of systematic racism in American police forces?
Also as a side note, you seem to be taking this personally. You shouldn't, I don't
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
Are you saying the only factor in cops shooting black people is an inherent racist attitude?
Do societal conditions play a part in this trend we are observing?
As much as people pleaded with others to at least consider the causal factors for a lunatic that flew a plane full if passengers into a mountain versus calling the lunatic a lunatic... it's ironic, to say the least, that some seem to assume the mentality that this disturbing development has more to do with racist, homicidal cops than anything else.
I guess I'm saying the formula for these events becoming common is complex. Just as much as we point our fingers away from ourselves, we are all inherently responsible to some degree for prospering in a capitalist society that has placed its thumb on some- preventing them from sharing most of the things we enjoy.
And don't get me wrong: this case reeks of serious abuse (the cop executed the guy). Absolutely terrible.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
All I want to know, right now, is what is known of this incident. Obviously, it's fucking murder. Was it a racial thing? Don't know. Do you, without a doubt?
I don't "believe" anything, I'm asking questions.
The nerve of me!
Do you "think" there is a cultural problem of systematic racism in American police forces?
Also as a side note, you seem to be taking this personally. You shouldn't, I don't
Not sure why "think" was emphasized...?
But actually, no - not taking it personally despite some of the personal jabs given. More like flabbergasted in an increasingly amusing way - despite the gravity of this incident.
And again, I refer you to my earlier post - "I don't deny", etc.
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
Are you saying the only factor in cops shooting black people is an inherent racist attitude?
Do societal conditions play a part in this trend we are observing?
As much as people pleaded with others to at least consider the causal factors for a lunatic that flew a plane full if passengers into a mountain versus calling the lunatic a lunatic... it's ironic, to say the least, that some seem to assume the mentality that this disturbing development has more to do with racist, homicidal cops than anything else.
I guess I'm saying the formula for these events becoming common is complex. Just as much as we point our fingers away from ourselves, we are all inherently responsible to some degree for prospering in a capitalist society that has placed its thumb on some- preventing them from sharing most of the things we enjoy.
And don't get me wrong: this case reeks of serious abuse (the cop executed the guy). Absolutely terrible.
All good points.
And in no way am I saying that racism is the only reason this man was shot, but I think it probably played a part, given the odds.
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
Are you saying the only factor in cops shooting black people is an inherent racist attitude?
Do societal conditions play a part in this trend we are observing?
As much as people pleaded with others to at least consider the causal factors for a lunatic that flew a plane full if passengers into a mountain versus calling the lunatic a lunatic... it's ironic, to say the least, that some seem to assume the mentality that this disturbing development has more to do with racist, homicidal cops than anything else.
I guess I'm saying the formula for these events becoming common is complex. Just as much as we point our fingers away from ourselves, we are all inherently responsible to some degree for prospering in a capitalist society that has placed its thumb on some- preventing them from sharing most of the things we enjoy.
And don't get me wrong: this case reeks of serious abuse (the cop executed the guy). Absolutely terrible.
All good points.
And in no way am I saying that racism is the only reason this man was shot, but I think it probably played a part, given the odds.
We are reaching middle ground.
I would agree with you and what you have said here... as part in parcel.
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
All I want to know, right now, is what is known of this incident. Obviously, it's fucking murder. Was it a racial thing? Don't know. Do you, without a doubt?
I don't "believe" anything, I'm asking questions.
The nerve of me!
Do you "think" there is a cultural problem of systematic racism in American police forces?
Also as a side note, you seem to be taking this personally. You shouldn't, I don't
Not sure why "think" was emphasized...?
But actually, no - not taking it personally despite some of the personal jabs given. More like flabbergasted in an increasingly amusing way - despite the gravity of this incident.
And again, I refer you to my earlier post - "I don't deny", etc.
Easy enough to scroll on up.
Easy enough to say "yes". Clear and concise, no room for confusion.
And "personal jabs"? Sounds like you are taking this personal.
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
That's it. Repeatedly, over and over and over again in numerous threads, many individuals insist that each and every incident is individual, and do not admit that it's an overall problem, a national problem. Especially, the topic of race and cops is avoided. How are we going to get everyone on the same page that is the fact that this is a national and not individual problem?
Recognizing the enormity of this problem rather than insisting on focusing on individual details keeps the numbers at large from seeing it for what it is. Cops are killing blacks. That's not an opinion.
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
I think it's a good aspiration, but I don't think it is representative of the broader patterns of human psychology. There are a ton of behaviors like racial bias that are easily applied to 99% of the human species.
I don't deny its existence, but question what's involved in this particular situation, this particular cop.
Can I ask how this specific incident will prevent further incidents from happening? Because we can scrutinize and study each case forever without getting every single detail, and it won't prevent the next. Isn't that what we should be doing is rather than just attempt to understand the whys of individual incidents, but find out how the next can be avoided?
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
That's it. Repeatedly, over and over and over again in numerous threads, many individuals insist that each and every incident is individual, and do not admit that it's an overall problem, a national problem. Especially, the topic of race and cops is avoided. How are we going to get everyone on the same page that is the fact that this is a national and not individual problem?
Recognizing the enormity of this problem rather than insisting on focusing on individual details keeps the numbers at large from seeing it for what it is. Cops are killing blacks. That's not an opinion.
it IS a national and systemic problem. HOWEVER, do we KNOW this one was racially motivated? at this point, no.
just because it fits the profile, the profile in itself is very simplistic. white v black. while 99 out of 100 times it may be a race issue, before we go burning people at the stake for it being a hate crime, we have to first make sure this time is not the 1.
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
That's it. Repeatedly, over and over and over again in numerous threads, many individuals insist that each and every incident is individual, and do not admit that it's an overall problem, a national problem. Especially, the topic of race and cops is avoided. How are we going to get everyone on the same page that is the fact that this is a national and not individual problem?
Recognizing the enormity of this problem rather than insisting on focusing on individual details keeps the numbers at large from seeing it for what it is. Cops are killing blacks. That's not an opinion.
it IS a national and systemic problem. HOWEVER, do we KNOW this one was racially motivated? at this point, no.
just because it fits the profile, the profile in itself is very simplistic. white v black. while 99 out of 100 times it may be a race issue, before we go burning people at the stake for it being a hate crime, we have to first make sure this time is not the 1.
Glad to see that you now admit the enormity of the problem. It's really gotten so out of hand that it's nearly impossible to say it isn't.
And why is this individual case any different that any other cop killing blacks incident? Sure, details can and will be different from each other, but it doesn't negate that this problem needs a systemic solution, why cops are killing blacks. I'm not interested in making this a repeat of the Wisconsin thread. This incident in particular shows a cop killing a running black man and lying about the details. This incident, in particular, shows more of the cop being in the wrong more than anything. And in attempting to give him the benefit of the doubt? Something stinks.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
I think it's a good aspiration, but I don't think it is representative of the broader patterns of human psychology. There are a ton of behaviors like racial bias that are easily applied to 99% of the human species.
I don't deny its existence, but question what's involved in this particular situation, this particular cop.
Can I ask how this specific incident will prevent further incidents from happening? Because we can scrutinize and study each case forever without getting every single detail, and it won't prevent the next. Isn't that what we should be doing is rather than just attempt to understand the whys of individual incidents, but find out how the next can be avoided?
You're asking me? How would I know the answer? Typically, there are variables.
It simply makes sense to me to not lose sight of each situation's circumstances - some justifiable, some not.
I'd also refer back to Thirty's and Hugh's posts.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Regarding benefit of the doubt - from here, only to the racial motivation factor. That has been largely assumed at this point. If indeed it is also a (or the only) factor in this man's motivation to kill, even more fucked up than it already is.
So what exactly is each situation's circumstances have anything to do with the prevention of it happening again? Or are you just looking for a way to excuse the police? Because that is what appears you are driving at. If you are not looking to excuse either the victim or the police, what is the point of each situation's circumstances? To say that there isn't a national problem of cops killing blacks? Because it doesn't.
Honest question with no intention to be inflammatory - did this officer have a history of racial issues? Is it a given this was borne of Scott's race, or that his killer was an incompetent asshole?
Is there a history with this particular officer? I have no idea. Is there a history of white cops disproportionately shooting unarmed black men? Yes.
There is a pattern here. We have to get beyond the point of looking at this on a case by case basis. It's systematic, cultural.
Your comments are contradictory - no knowledge of history, but let's toss it in the mix, regardless?
That's no better than saying anyone who fits X description should be painted as well.
I think it should be looked at individually. I want that for myself and my fellow men and women.
There may be a pattern but automatically tossing some into that tapestry is unfair and sweeping.
My comments are in no way contradictory. Both statements are true, the first my knowledge of this mans previous history which I have none and the second is factual backed by evidence.
May be a pattern? If you can't look at the evidence given to you over and over and over again that to me shows an unwillingness to come to a conclusion.....and shows your bias.
There are several people in this thread, including Hedo, who have defended some officers on the MT... and, such as now, condemned other officers based on circumstances.
There are several people in this thread who have always condemned the officer regardless of circumstances.
Who's biased?
The same people who believe these are isolated incidents given the evidence to the contrary.
That's it. Repeatedly, over and over and over again in numerous threads, many individuals insist that each and every incident is individual, and do not admit that it's an overall problem, a national problem. Especially, the topic of race and cops is avoided. How are we going to get everyone on the same page that is the fact that this is a national and not individual problem?
Recognizing the enormity of this problem rather than insisting on focusing on individual details keeps the numbers at large from seeing it for what it is. Cops are killing blacks. That's not an opinion.
it IS a national and systemic problem. HOWEVER, do we KNOW this one was racially motivated? at this point, no.
just because it fits the profile, the profile in itself is very simplistic. white v black. while 99 out of 100 times it may be a race issue, before we go burning people at the stake for it being a hate crime, we have to first make sure this time is not the 1.
Glad to see that you now admit the enormity of the problem. It's really gotten so out of hand that it's nearly impossible to say it isn't.
And why is this individual case any different that any other cop killing blacks incident? Sure, details can and will be different from each other, but it doesn't negate that this problem needs a systemic solution, why cops are killing blacks. I'm not interested in making this a repeat of the Wisconsin thread. This incident in particular shows a cop killing a running black man and lying about the details. This incident, in particular, shows more of the cop being in the wrong more than anything. And in attempting to give him the benefit of the doubt? Something stinks.
I acknowledged from the very beginning in the other thread that there was a problem. there are problems EVERYWHERE in North America with regards to cops and the lower socio-economic classes. most, if not all, of those economic classes consist largely of one particular race that has been oppressed by the ango-saxon contingent. it's unavoidable, given the racist pasts of both canada and the US.
it's not just a race issue. it is also a class issue. they are inter-related. it is a race issue because of the disparity between the economics of each race, which began with the racist oppression blacks and aboriginals were faced with a hundred years ago. and continue to face each and every day.
the difference that I see between the US and Canada, is that you don't often, if ever, hear of cops shooting aboriginals indiscriminantly.
So what exactly is each situation's circumstances have anything to do with the prevention of it happening again? Or are you just looking for a way to excuse the police? Because that is what appears you are driving at.
Preventing it from happening again lies with all of us.
You keep wanting to blame the police very single time when the problem is much bigger than that. It's simply not fair to pin this on cops on the front line every time, while (for example) you type your post in a Starbuck's drinking a non-fat soy latte.
Until society addresses the problem of poverty and looks at a model where wealth is distributed more equitably, we will have the types of problems you bemoan. Each case must be looked at individually because there are individuals within each case. If a cop has been punched and his assailant has tried to grab his gun... we will have to understand and accept the cop's decision to act forcefully defending himself in the line of duty. If a guy pulled over for a taillight tries to run away from a cop and the cop shoots him in the back 20 times... we will not accept the malicious decisions.
Check out the video I posted about the redneck and white culture.
In this situation, it is very much, according to factual evidence it IS the police to blame. Are you against the factual evidence that cops shooting blacks is a national problem?
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
So what exactly is each situation's circumstances have anything to do with the prevention of it happening again? Or are you just looking for a way to excuse the police? Because that is what appears you are driving at. If you are not looking to excuse either the victim or the police, what is the point of each situation's circumstances? To say that there isn't a national problem of cops killing blacks? Because it doesn't.
Not gonna get into this again. There are only three pages in this thread - go back and read what I've said here, please. Take from it what you will (or won't).
I was talking to my wife the other day about the Rolling Stone's article about the gang rape. I started thinking about it and lying about rape and calling something racist before the facts are out just hurts future cases that are rape and racially motivated. If it comes out that the cop targeted and shot this guy because he is black then he should be tried for a hate crime. Almost like in Ferguson we were told Michale Brown put his hands up and said don't shoot. That rhetoric spun that city out of control. I will not play into the race baiters hands again. Sometimes bad shit happens and luckily there was video to prove it. I hope the cop gets what he deserves.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Ha i knew sooner or later some of you would start with . well the guy did do this & that and so it starts the blame starts to shift to the dead guy and one ? i have to ask all of you here when was the last time a video of a cop shooting a white guy surfaced where it's cristal clear that an unarmed man running away from a cop has happened ....
I don't think anyone is trying to make excuses for the cop, but I think it underscores the importance of not resisting arrest. There is no excuse in this case for the cop to kill the individual, but the individual is probably alive today if didn't resist arrest or run.
The running didn't cause him to die. Bullets did.
Was the officers life in danger as the guy was running away. Of course not. Case closed.
Thank you. I initially thought the man had a heart attack while running. Now I see that it was indeed the bullets that killed him. THank you for pointing this important fact out to me. I don't know how I could have missed that.
I was only trying to make the point that not resisting arrest and not running from the police will decrease the likelihood that the officer will use force (necessary or unnecessary). Nothing justifies what the cop did in this particular incident (like I said in my post). We'll see what the dash cam shows.
A question I would like to see answered is would the cop have pulled this guy over with the busted tail light if he knew the driver was white? That would answer many of the racial questions being asked. Obviously, there's no way that will ever be answered honestly, IMO.
I still haven't learned why they were almost 2 blocks away from the car when the shooting occured. I've heard unconfirmed reports that Scott had a warrant out on him and he took off.
A question I would like to see answered is would the cop have pulled this guy over with the busted tail light if he knew the driver was white? That would answer many of the racial questions being asked. Obviously, there's no way that will ever be answered honestly, IMO.
I still haven't learned why they were almost 2 blocks away from the car when the shooting occured. I've heard unconfirmed reports that Scott had a warrant out on him and he took off.
I read an article quoting one of his family members that yes, he was scared he'd go to jail for unpaid child support. but again, that is just another media outlet, possibly misquoting or misrepresenting facts. we won't know the facts for a while.
A question I would like to see answered is would the cop have pulled this guy over with the busted tail light if he knew the driver was white? That would answer many of the racial questions being asked. Obviously, there's no way that will ever be answered honestly, IMO.
I still haven't learned why they were almost 2 blocks away from the car when the shooting occured. I've heard unconfirmed reports that Scott had a warrant out on him and he took off.
I just in general asked earlier - does the police not run anymore? I guess I wasn't paying attention - apparently this cop did chase the man. I wonder why he didn't just continue to chase him? Wouldn't the man already have been weak and slow anyway if he had been tazered?
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
A question I would like to see answered is would the cop have pulled this guy over with the busted tail light if he knew the driver was white? That would answer many of the racial questions being asked. Obviously, there's no way that will ever be answered honestly, IMO.
I still haven't learned why they were almost 2 blocks away from the car when the shooting occured. I've heard unconfirmed reports that Scott had a warrant out on him and he took off.
I just in general asked earlier - does the police not run anymore? I guess I wasn't paying attention - apparently this cop did chase the man. I wonder why he didn't just continue to chase him? Wouldn't the man already have been weak and slow anyway if he had been tazered?
He wasn't running all that fast before he was getting shot. It looks as if he was still hurting/tired from whatever happened before the video started.
I have heard that he was tazered earlier too. If that is the case how did he get up? Again no defense of the cops actions, but I would like to know what happened after the car was pulled over and how they got into the field.
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98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
See I still think the two should be mutually exclusive. Running and resisting should not be trigger points to death.
So the guys action of running away took all threat to officer away ironically. So your point is mute in this case. Totally mute.
I used the sarcasm because it is absolutely ridiculous that you are arguing that resisting arrest and running from a police officer wouldn't increase your chance of bodily harm from a police officer (regardless of justified or not).
You say that my point is moot, but my point is that not running may have increased his chances of not being killed. He ran and got killed (wrongly killed by the way). So I don't think my point is moot that running increases your chance of being harmed because in this case he did run and he was harmed.
That we are even arguing this point is ridiculous. We both think the cop should be guilty of murder. I don't see how we both can't agree that it would make sense not to provoke or not listen to instructions from police officers either. This board is incredible sometimes. Extreme lines of thinking. Nothing in the middle.
See I still think the two should be mutually exclusive. Running and resisting should not be trigger points to death.
So the guys action of running away took all threat to officer away ironically. So your point is mute in this case. Totally mute.
I used the sarcasm because it is absolutely ridiculous that you are arguing that resisting arrest and running from a police officer wouldn't increase your chance of bodily harm from a police officer (regardless of justified or not).
You say that my point is moot, but my point is that not running may have increased his chances of not being killed. He ran and got killed (wrongly killed by the way). So I don't think my point is moot that running increases your chance of being harmed because in this case he did run and he was harmed.
That we are even arguing this point is ridiculous. We both think the cop should be guilty of murder. I don't see how we both can't agree that it would make sense not to provoke or not listen to instructions from police officers either. This board is incredible sometimes. Extreme lines of thinking. Nothing in the middle.
I agree completely that it increases chance but it shouldn't. That's my point.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Walter Scott shooting: Michael Slager subject of prior excessive force complaint Officer accused of Tasering unarmed man in 2013 but police report said he was 'exonerated'
Comments
Also as a side note, you seem to be taking this personally. You shouldn't, I don't
Do societal conditions play a part in this trend we are observing?
As much as people pleaded with others to at least consider the causal factors for a lunatic that flew a plane full if passengers into a mountain versus calling the lunatic a lunatic... it's ironic, to say the least, that some seem to assume the mentality that this disturbing development has more to do with racist, homicidal cops than anything else.
I guess I'm saying the formula for these events becoming common is complex. Just as much as we point our fingers away from ourselves, we are all inherently responsible to some degree for prospering in a capitalist society that has placed its thumb on some- preventing them from sharing most of the things we enjoy.
And don't get me wrong: this case reeks of serious abuse (the cop executed the guy). Absolutely terrible.
But actually, no - not taking it personally despite some of the personal jabs given. More like flabbergasted in an increasingly amusing way - despite the gravity of this incident.
And again, I refer you to my earlier post - "I don't deny", etc.
Easy enough to scroll on up.
And in no way am I saying that racism is the only reason this man was shot, but I think it probably played a part, given the odds.
I would agree with you and what you have said here... as part in parcel.
And "personal jabs"? Sounds like you are taking this personal.
Recognizing the enormity of this problem rather than insisting on focusing on individual details keeps the numbers at large from seeing it for what it is. Cops are killing blacks. That's not an opinion.
I'm really hoping this thread doesn't become a repeat of this thread. So far, so good, I must say. http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/243079/what-the-hell-happened-in-wisconsin#latest
just because it fits the profile, the profile in itself is very simplistic. white v black. while 99 out of 100 times it may be a race issue, before we go burning people at the stake for it being a hate crime, we have to first make sure this time is not the 1.
www.headstonesband.com
And why is this individual case any different that any other cop killing blacks incident? Sure, details can and will be different from each other, but it doesn't negate that this problem needs a systemic solution, why cops are killing blacks. I'm not interested in making this a repeat of the Wisconsin thread. This incident in particular shows a cop killing a running black man and lying about the details. This incident, in particular, shows more of the cop being in the wrong more than anything. And in attempting to give him the benefit of the doubt? Something stinks.
It simply makes sense to me to not lose sight of each situation's circumstances - some justifiable, some not.
I'd also refer back to Thirty's and Hugh's posts.
Not sure how much clearer I can be.
it's not just a race issue. it is also a class issue. they are inter-related. it is a race issue because of the disparity between the economics of each race, which began with the racist oppression blacks and aboriginals were faced with a hundred years ago. and continue to face each and every day.
the difference that I see between the US and Canada, is that you don't often, if ever, hear of cops shooting aboriginals indiscriminantly.
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You keep wanting to blame the police very single time when the problem is much bigger than that. It's simply not fair to pin this on cops on the front line every time, while (for example) you type your post in a Starbuck's drinking a non-fat soy latte.
Until society addresses the problem of poverty and looks at a model where wealth is distributed more equitably, we will have the types of problems you bemoan. Each case must be looked at individually because there are individuals within each case. If a cop has been punched and his assailant has tried to grab his gun... we will have to understand and accept the cop's decision to act forcefully defending himself in the line of duty. If a guy pulled over for a taillight tries to run away from a cop and the cop shoots him in the back 20 times... we will not accept the malicious decisions.
In this situation, it is very much, according to factual evidence it IS the police to blame. Are you against the factual evidence that cops shooting blacks is a national problem?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
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I was only trying to make the point that not resisting arrest and not running from the police will decrease the likelihood that the officer will use force (necessary or unnecessary). Nothing justifies what the cop did in this particular incident (like I said in my post). We'll see what the dash cam shows.
See I still think the two should be mutually exclusive. Running and resisting should not be trigger points to death.
So the guys action of running away took all threat to officer away ironically. So your point is mute in this case. Totally mute.
www.headstonesband.com
I still haven't learned why they were almost 2 blocks away from the car when the shooting occured. I've heard unconfirmed reports that Scott had a warrant out on him and he took off.
www.headstonesband.com
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
You say that my point is moot, but my point is that not running may have increased his chances of not being killed. He ran and got killed (wrongly killed by the way). So I don't think my point is moot that running increases your chance of being harmed because in this case he did run and he was harmed.
That we are even arguing this point is ridiculous. We both think the cop should be guilty of murder. I don't see how we both can't agree that it would make sense not to provoke or not listen to instructions from police officers either. This board is incredible sometimes. Extreme lines of thinking. Nothing in the middle.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/family-walter-scott-shot-dead-preparing-lawsuit-article-1.2179020
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Officer accused of Tasering unarmed man in 2013 but police report said he was 'exonerated'
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/walter-scott-shooting-michael-slager-subject-of-prior-excessive-force-complaint-1.3026054
More evidence of a systematic problem.