Sam Smith....evidence rock and roll may finally be dead

tempo_n_groove

So did people buy the tickets in advance in a "hope" that someone good would be playing? What if Silverchair, Nickelback or Daughtry were announced as headliners?

lolobugg

tempo_n_groove said:

So did people buy the tickets in advance in a "hope" that someone good would be playing? What if Silverchair, Nickelback or Daughtry were announced as headliners?

if they petitioned against Kanye.
they would probably kill themselves if those were announced.

Tim Simmons

Pretty sure tickets are bought blindly.

I don't think they realize Kanye puts on a great show. And personality or attitude aside, Hes got the jams to back him up.

Tim Simmons

HesCalledDyer said:

I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.

This is silly.

So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?

lolobugg

Tim Simmons said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.

This is silly.

So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?

Dust Brothers.... still around??

Tim Simmons

Good question. no idea.

Tim Simmons

Best I can find is that they are still working. Simpson has moved into film scoring. King did a Steve Earle album a few years back.

lolobugg

Tim Simmons said:

Best I can find is that they are still working. Simpson has moved into film scoring. King did a Steve Earle album a few years back.

wow... Steve Earle?
didn't see that partnership coming.
might have to check that out.

MedozK

Tim Simmons said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.

This is silly.

So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?

Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.

Tim Simmons

No doubt. My comment was more about how using samples isn't as legitimate of music as creating it yourself (which is even more silly, because Kanye, Beck, Beastie boys aren't using just samples, there are synths, guitars and drums on there too).

Tim Simmons

Festivals are big business now. Its not surprising that ones that were predominantly rock aren't anymore. The demand for Rock just isn't there. People still like it. There is lots of great new rock bands. But the vast majority of people, especially in the 18-35 demo don't care about it anymore.

That being said, I don't think there is any illegitimate about Kanye or Sam Smith (who has more than 1 hit song BTW, he has 3 singles off his platinum in the US album and 2 more hit singles with other acts - so 5 hit sons, more than lots of other artists) headlining these fests. They are draws. SOme people who are diehard rock fans won't be happy. But you are the minority.

JH6056

MedozK said:

Tim Simmons said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.

This is silly.

So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?

Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.

That assumes the Beastie Boys didn't clear their samples when they made it. You are wrong, they did clear their samples. It is possible to do things the right way and produce something brilliant.

Posted this in the wrong thread, but I stand corrected: the Beasties did NOT clear all their samples. DC go go band Trouble Funk just lost standing for their suit against the Beasties for samples on 2 Beasties albums. But they didn't lose because the court said it wasn't an illegal sample; the company suing on their behalf was found by the court not to have standing to sue. No ruling (yet) on whether the samples were illegal.

mwplum

lolobugg said:

Tim Simmons said:

Are these the same people who were pissed about Jay Z headlining?

probably....
they don't think hip hop should be headliners at a traditional Rock Festival.
I don't really have a dog in the race- but they are already up to 60,000 signatures.
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with rock influenced hip hop headliners(Run DMC, Public Enemy) but I would not want to see JayZ or Kayne.
I quit listening to popular rap in 1993.

Edit:
http://www.pollstar.com/news_article.aspx?ID=817135

I'm with you on that. I enjoyed hip hip/rap probably up until about 1998.

The point in my original post was that other genres like hip hop and EDM have in some form always been a part of these rock festivals, but sugar coated pop has never had a place there. If you look back to the back in the day Lollas like 1992, no only did you have PJ, SG, RHCP, but you also had Ice Cube. In 1993, not only was there AiC and RATM, but there was also arrested development. These were artists pushing the boundaries within their own genres, and I don't see Sam Smith doing that.

I think the glastonbury moves over the past few years are reactionary, and solely the result of Emily Eavis (the daughter of the founder). It's almost like a spoiled brat situation where the child has convinced the parent that it's the right idea. Prior to her involvement, you never saw a Jay-Z/Beyonce/Kanye headline.

It's an interesting move, and one that will be interesting to watch. Perhaps mores than any other festival, Glasto has built up a long hippie tradition, and a tradition of giving back to charities, goodwill etc...something that doesn't exactly mesh well with the morals/values of someone like Kanye. So to pull in acts like Kanye is arguably turning your back on your traditional fan base...the people who have come year after, and have built up the festival to what it is today.

What I think will be interesting is whether these moves will bring in more new people, or chase away their traditional base over time. I've been to the Glasto site, but not for the festival. We flew from Vancouver in 2012 to see the Blur shows in warmup to Hyde Park, taking us to Wolverhampton, and then south to Plymouth. We stopped in Pilton at the Worthy farm on the way there, and what shocked me was how few roads, transport options there are to the actual site. Even during non-festival time, the traffic was horrendous. It was literally two lane country roads. I would image that at festival time, there would be 10's of 1000's of people getting in/out, and it would be a total nightmare of sitting around waiting for connections, in typically bad weather.

For the easygoing hippie-type, I don't think that's a problem. However, I think that would be a major issue for the average Kanye fan. Using my own circle of friends/coworkers/etc as a basis (for the massive generalization that follows), I would say that those who listen to Kanye tend to beat to a different moral drum. They have much different priorities/aspirations in life. They want to be "seen" at high end nightclubs, they waste so much money on gimmicks like VIP, bottle service, etc..and they go to extensive lengths to make sure their appearance is impeccable. They are the types who look to Kanye and Kim K. as role models. They're the types who wish their lives were more like a rap video. They are the types who go to festivals just to post on instagram so that others will know they've been there.

It seems that it's the goal of Emily Eavis is to attract that segment of concertgoer, and start offering much more high end accommodations like 2000 pound luxury yurts, (see: http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/11/yes-you-can-still-get-tickets-to-glastonbury-2015-and-have-your-bell-boy-carry-them-5099213/)

...it will be interesting to see whether those types of people will be willing to wear wellies, camp for a week, shower infrequently, and sit in traffic for hours. In the case of my friends who listen to Kanye, they are barely willing to drive from Vancouver to Seattle for a show, let alone put up with all the hassle that would come with attending Glastonbury.

Glastonbury has become iconic to the point where tickets are blindly bought in October, with a second sale in April after people are given the opportunity to return tickets if they don't like the lineup. It will be interesting to see this year whether more people will choose to return tickets, and subsequently, whether the Kanye fans will be keen to buy them once they become available.

Tim Simmons

I think you may be generalizing the typical Kanye fan there. But we'll see if this is lowest attended Glasto ever.

PJ_Soul

Tim Simmons said:

Pretty sure tickets are bought blindly.

I don't think they realize Kanye puts on a great show. And personality or attitude aside, Hes got the jams to back him up.

I wouldn't care how good a show he put on. I hate rap.

Tim Simmons

Fair enough. Everyone isn't into all things. But would you sign a petition to get him kicked off the bill?

PJ_Soul

Tim Simmons said:

Fair enough. Everyone isn't into all things. But would you sign a petition to get him kicked off the bill?

Lol.... maybe, if the petition ended up in front of me, but only because he's an asshole and deserves it, not because I think people should petition against festival headliners generally.

lolobugg

http://www.pollstar.com/news_article.aspx?ID=817194

tempo_n_groove

PJ_Soul said:

Tim Simmons said:

Pretty sure tickets are bought blindly.

I don't think they realize Kanye puts on a great show. And personality or attitude aside, Hes got the jams to back him up.

I wouldn't care how good a show he put on. I hate rap.

Hate rap?!?

Blondie, Sugar Hill, Beastie Boys, 311, Cypress Hill just to name a few?!?

Eminem, Drake, Biggie, Tupac, Puffy, Dre?

DeLa Soul, Lucas, Public Enemy, Jay-Z?!?

Surely something you've heard you like?

Parlimament Funkadelic, Sly and the family stone, James Brown?!?

Maclemore & Ryan Lewis?

PJ_Soul

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

Tim Simmons said:

Pretty sure tickets are bought blindly.

I don't think they realize Kanye puts on a great show. And personality or attitude aside, Hes got the jams to back him up.

I wouldn't care how good a show he put on. I hate rap.

Hate rap?!?

Blondie, Sugar Hill, Beastie Boys, 311, Cypress Hill just to name a few?!?

Eminem, Drake, Biggie, Tupac, Puffy, Dre?

DeLa Soul, Lucas, Public Enemy, Jay-Z?!?

Surely something you've heard you like?

Parlimament Funkadelic, Sly and the family stone, James Brown?!?

Maclemore & Ryan Lewis?

I've heard of all of them. I'm very familiar with the genre (it's unfortunately been impossible to avoid), which is how I know I hate it... there are exceptions to every rule - there have been maybe two or three songs over the past couple decades that were kind of okay i guess, lol. If i had to choose a fave it would be Eminem, because he is more creative/d8fferent than most IMO. But yeah, generally I really hate rap. Like 99.9% of it. It irritates the hell out of me. I just don't like the sound of it in my ears.