Festivals are big business now. Its not surprising that ones that were predominantly rock aren't anymore. The demand for Rock just isn't there. People still like it. There is lots of great new rock bands. But the vast majority of people, especially in the 18-35 demo don't care about it anymore.
That being said, I don't think there is any illegitimate about Kanye or Sam Smith (who has more than 1 hit song BTW, he has 3 singles off his platinum in the US album and 2 more hit singles with other acts - so 5 hit sons, more than lots of other artists) headlining these fests. They are draws. SOme people who are diehard rock fans won't be happy. But you are the minority.
I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.
This is silly.
So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?
Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.
That assumes the Beastie Boys didn't clear their samples when they made it. You are wrong, they did clear their samples. It is possible to do things the right way and produce something brilliant.
Posted this in the wrong thread, but I stand corrected: the Beasties did NOT clear all their samples. DC go go band Trouble Funk just lost standing for their suit against the Beasties for samples on 2 Beasties albums. But they didn't lose because the court said it wasn't an illegal sample; the company suing on their behalf was found by the court not to have standing to sue. No ruling (yet) on whether the samples were illegal.
Are these the same people who were pissed about Jay Z headlining?
probably.... they don't think hip hop should be headliners at a traditional Rock Festival. I don't really have a dog in the race- but they are already up to 60,000 signatures. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with rock influenced hip hop headliners(Run DMC, Public Enemy) but I would not want to see JayZ or Kayne. I quit listening to popular rap in 1993.
I'm with you on that. I enjoyed hip hip/rap probably up until about 1998.
The point in my original post was that other genres like hip hop and EDM have in some form always been a part of these rock festivals, but sugar coated pop has never had a place there. If you look back to the back in the day Lollas like 1992, no only did you have PJ, SG, RHCP, but you also had Ice Cube. In 1993, not only was there AiC and RATM, but there was also arrested development. These were artists pushing the boundaries within their own genres, and I don't see Sam Smith doing that.
I think the glastonbury moves over the past few years are reactionary, and solely the result of Emily Eavis (the daughter of the founder). It's almost like a spoiled brat situation where the child has convinced the parent that it's the right idea. Prior to her involvement, you never saw a Jay-Z/Beyonce/Kanye headline.
It's an interesting move, and one that will be interesting to watch. Perhaps mores than any other festival, Glasto has built up a long hippie tradition, and a tradition of giving back to charities, goodwill etc...something that doesn't exactly mesh well with the morals/values of someone like Kanye. So to pull in acts like Kanye is arguably turning your back on your traditional fan base...the people who have come year after, and have built up the festival to what it is today.
What I think will be interesting is whether these moves will bring in more new people, or chase away their traditional base over time. I've been to the Glasto site, but not for the festival. We flew from Vancouver in 2012 to see the Blur shows in warmup to Hyde Park, taking us to Wolverhampton, and then south to Plymouth. We stopped in Pilton at the Worthy farm on the way there, and what shocked me was how few roads, transport options there are to the actual site. Even during non-festival time, the traffic was horrendous. It was literally two lane country roads. I would image that at festival time, there would be 10's of 1000's of people getting in/out, and it would be a total nightmare of sitting around waiting for connections, in typically bad weather.
For the easygoing hippie-type, I don't think that's a problem. However, I think that would be a major issue for the average Kanye fan. Using my own circle of friends/coworkers/etc as a basis (for the massive generalization that follows), I would say that those who listen to Kanye tend to beat to a different moral drum. They have much different priorities/aspirations in life. They want to be "seen" at high end nightclubs, they waste so much money on gimmicks like VIP, bottle service, etc..and they go to extensive lengths to make sure their appearance is impeccable. They are the types who look to Kanye and Kim K. as role models. They're the types who wish their lives were more like a rap video. They are the types who go to festivals just to post on instagram so that others will know they've been there.
...it will be interesting to see whether those types of people will be willing to wear wellies, camp for a week, shower infrequently, and sit in traffic for hours. In the case of my friends who listen to Kanye, they are barely willing to drive from Vancouver to Seattle for a show, let alone put up with all the hassle that would come with attending Glastonbury.
Glastonbury has become iconic to the point where tickets are blindly bought in October, with a second sale in April after people are given the opportunity to return tickets if they don't like the lineup. It will be interesting to see this year whether more people will choose to return tickets, and subsequently, whether the Kanye fans will be keen to buy them once they become available.
1992-07-21 Vancouver
1993-9-4 Vancouver
1996-9-16 Seattle
1998-7-19 Vancouver, 7-21 Seattle, Memorial Stadium
2000-11-6 Seattle
2001-10-22 Seattle
2002 -12-09 Seattle
2009-8-17 Manchester, 9-25 Vancouver
2011-6-16 Seattle (EV), 9-3/4 PJ20, 9-25 Vancouver
2012-6-27 Amsterdam (#2!)
2013-11-29 Portland, 12-4 Vancouver, 12-6 Seattle
2014-AUS - 1-26 Sydney, 1-31 Adelaide, 2-11/12 EV Sydney State Theatre, 2-13 EV Opera House
2014 - USA - Memphis, Detroit, MOLINE, St. Paul, MILWAUKEE, Denver, 25/26 Bridge School
2016 - Lexington, Philly x 2, MSG x 2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto x 2, Pemberton, Fenway x 2, Wrigley x 2 2018 - Seattle x 2, Missoula, Fenway x 2
Fair enough. Everyone isn't into all things. But would you sign a petition to get him kicked off the bill?
Lol.... maybe, if the petition ended up in front of me, but only because he's an asshole and deserves it, not because I think people should petition against festival headliners generally.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
I don't think they realize Kanye puts on a great show. And personality or attitude aside, Hes got the jams to back him up.
I wouldn't care how good a show he put on. I hate rap.
Hate rap?!?
Blondie, Sugar Hill, Beastie Boys, 311, Cypress Hill just to name a few?!?
Eminem, Drake, Biggie, Tupac, Puffy, Dre?
DeLa Soul, Lucas, Public Enemy, Jay-Z?!?
Surely something you've heard you like?
Parlimament Funkadelic, Sly and the family stone, James Brown?!?
Maclemore & Ryan Lewis?
I've heard of all of them. I'm very familiar with the genre (it's unfortunately been impossible to avoid), which is how I know I hate it... there are exceptions to every rule - there have been maybe two or three songs over the past couple decades that were kind of okay i guess, lol. If i had to choose a fave it would be Eminem, because he is more creative/d8fferent than most IMO. But yeah, generally I really hate rap. Like 99.9% of it. It irritates the hell out of me. I just don't like the sound of it in my ears.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think they realize Kanye puts on a great show. And personality or attitude aside, Hes got the jams to back him up.
I wouldn't care how good a show he put on. I hate rap.
Hate rap?!?
Blondie, Sugar Hill, Beastie Boys, 311, Cypress Hill just to name a few?!?
Eminem, Drake, Biggie, Tupac, Puffy, Dre?
DeLa Soul, Lucas, Public Enemy, Jay-Z?!?
Surely something you've heard you like?
Parlimament Funkadelic, Sly and the family stone, James Brown?!?
Maclemore & Ryan Lewis?
I've heard of all of them. I'm very familiar with the genre (it's unfortunately been impossible to avoid), which is how I know I hate it... there are exceptions to every rule - there have been maybe two or three songs over the past couple decades that were kind of okay i guess, lol. If i had to choose a fave it would be Eminem, because he is more creative/d8fferent than most IMO. But yeah, generally I really hate rap. Like 99.9% of it. It irritates the hell out of me. I just don't like the sound of it in my ears.
That's like me and modern country music. I would rather hear cats scream than be exposed to it. What ever happened to Randy Travis? Man that guy could sing...
I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.
This is silly.
So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?
Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.
That assumes the Beastie Boys didn't clear their samples when they made it. You are wrong, they did clear their samples. It is possible to do things the right way and produce something brilliant.
I'm sorry I was wrong. Here is a quote from The Dust Brothers on Sound on Sound in 2005.
"most of the samples used on Paul's Boutique were cleared, easily and affordably, something that would be 'unthinkable' in today's litigious music industry."
Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.
As Uncle Neil once said, rock and roll will never die. Hopefully the upcoming Foo Fighters shows in the UK will prove this. Old and new bands here - Kasabian and Royal Blood - are showing that there is still life left. I asked my daughters (6 and 4) at the weekend if they would rather listen to Pearl Jam or One Direction; they gave me the correct answer. They even asked for PJ in the car on Saturday! Rock isn't dead.......we just have to fight a bit harder to prove it.
I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.
This is silly.
So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?
Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.
That assumes the Beastie Boys didn't clear their samples when they made it. You are wrong, they did clear their samples. It is possible to do things the right way and produce something brilliant.
I'm sorry I was wrong. Here is a quote from The Dust Brothers on Sound on Sound in 2005.
"most of the samples used on Paul's Boutique were cleared, easily and affordably, something that would be 'unthinkable' in today's litigious music industry."
Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.
Too funny, because I just found a quote (and edited my post above) that the Beastie Boys just successfully stopped (unless they try again) DC go go band Trouble Funk from suing them for samples on Paul's Boutique (and another Beasties album)! So we both said what we said, and have now both found quotes that prove us each wrong... which makes us BOTH right AND wrong
(Trouble Funk will probably be able to address the technicality that stopped the suit and come back and sue again). But I did think the Beasties were better about clearance so thanks for showing that mostly, they did clear samples.
I wish Kanye would go away. I wish people would stop giving him attention. His biggest 'hit' was putting his own lyrics over 90% of a Daft Punk song. That's not talent, sorry.
This is silly.
So are Pauls Boutique and Odelay less legitimate classics because they were lyrics over 90% samples?
Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.
That assumes the Beastie Boys didn't clear their samples when they made it. You are wrong, they did clear their samples. It is possible to do things the right way and produce something brilliant.
I'm sorry I was wrong. Here is a quote from The Dust Brothers on Sound on Sound in 2005.
"most of the samples used on Paul's Boutique were cleared, easily and affordably, something that would be 'unthinkable' in today's litigious music industry."
Paul's Boutique is one of the greatest albums of all-time. So many samples, that a record like that is not feasible now. Would be to expensive to clear all the samples.
Too funny, because I just found a quote (and edited my post above) that the Beastie Boys just successfully stopped (unless they try again) DC go go band Trouble Funk from suing them for samples on Paul's Boutique (and another Beasties album)! So we both said what we said, and have now both found quotes that prove us each wrong... which makes us BOTH right AND wrong
(Trouble Funk will probably be able to address the technicality that stopped the suit and come back and sue again). But I did think the Beasties were better about clearance so thanks for showing that mostly, they did clear samples.
Never heard of Trouble Funk and pretty sure that Pauls Boutique isn't making the Beasties rake in the cash(though their BEST album).
Comments
That being said, I don't think there is any illegitimate about Kanye or Sam Smith (who has more than 1 hit song BTW, he has 3 singles off his platinum in the US album and 2 more hit singles with other acts - so 5 hit sons, more than lots of other artists) headlining these fests. They are draws. SOme people who are diehard rock fans won't be happy. But you are the minority.
Posted this in the wrong thread, but I stand corrected: the Beasties did NOT clear all their samples. DC go go band Trouble Funk just lost standing for their suit against the Beasties for samples on 2 Beasties albums. But they didn't lose because the court said it wasn't an illegal sample; the company suing on their behalf was found by the court not to have standing to sue. No ruling (yet) on whether the samples were illegal.
The point in my original post was that other genres like hip hop and EDM have in some form always been a part of these rock festivals, but sugar coated pop has never had a place there. If you look back to the back in the day Lollas like 1992, no only did you have PJ, SG, RHCP, but you also had Ice Cube. In 1993, not only was there AiC and RATM, but there was also arrested development. These were artists pushing the boundaries within their own genres, and I don't see Sam Smith doing that.
I think the glastonbury moves over the past few years are reactionary, and solely the result of Emily Eavis (the daughter of the founder). It's almost like a spoiled brat situation where the child has convinced the parent that it's the right idea. Prior to her involvement, you never saw a Jay-Z/Beyonce/Kanye headline.
It's an interesting move, and one that will be interesting to watch. Perhaps mores than any other festival, Glasto has built up a long hippie tradition, and a tradition of giving back to charities, goodwill etc...something that doesn't exactly mesh well with the morals/values of someone like Kanye. So to pull in acts like Kanye is arguably turning your back on your traditional fan base...the people who have come year after, and have built up the festival to what it is today.
What I think will be interesting is whether these moves will bring in more new people, or chase away their traditional base over time. I've been to the Glasto site, but not for the festival. We flew from Vancouver in 2012 to see the Blur shows in warmup to Hyde Park, taking us to Wolverhampton, and then south to Plymouth. We stopped in Pilton at the Worthy farm on the way there, and what shocked me was how few roads, transport options there are to the actual site. Even during non-festival time, the traffic was horrendous. It was literally two lane country roads. I would image that at festival time, there would be 10's of 1000's of people getting in/out, and it would be a total nightmare of sitting around waiting for connections, in typically bad weather.
For the easygoing hippie-type, I don't think that's a problem. However, I think that would be a major issue for the average Kanye fan. Using my own circle of friends/coworkers/etc as a basis (for the massive generalization that follows), I would say that those who listen to Kanye tend to beat to a different moral drum. They have much different priorities/aspirations in life. They want to be "seen" at high end nightclubs, they waste so much money on gimmicks like VIP, bottle service, etc..and they go to extensive lengths to make sure their appearance is impeccable. They are the types who look to Kanye and Kim K. as role models. They're the types who wish their lives were more like a rap video. They are the types who go to festivals just to post on instagram so that others will know they've been there.
It seems that it's the goal of Emily Eavis is to attract that segment of concertgoer, and start offering much more high end accommodations like 2000 pound luxury yurts, (see: http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/11/yes-you-can-still-get-tickets-to-glastonbury-2015-and-have-your-bell-boy-carry-them-5099213/)
...it will be interesting to see whether those types of people will be willing to wear wellies, camp for a week, shower infrequently, and sit in traffic for hours. In the case of my friends who listen to Kanye, they are barely willing to drive from Vancouver to Seattle for a show, let alone put up with all the hassle that would come with attending Glastonbury.
Glastonbury has become iconic to the point where tickets are blindly bought in October, with a second sale in April after people are given the opportunity to return tickets if they don't like the lineup. It will be interesting to see this year whether more people will choose to return tickets, and subsequently, whether the Kanye fans will be keen to buy them once they become available.
1993-9-4 Vancouver
1996-9-16 Seattle
1998-7-19 Vancouver, 7-21 Seattle, Memorial Stadium
2000-11-6 Seattle
2001-10-22 Seattle
2002 -12-09 Seattle
2009-8-17 Manchester, 9-25 Vancouver
2011-6-16 Seattle (EV), 9-3/4 PJ20, 9-25 Vancouver
2012-6-27 Amsterdam (#2!)
2013-11-29 Portland, 12-4 Vancouver, 12-6 Seattle
2014-AUS - 1-26 Sydney, 1-31 Adelaide, 2-11/12 EV Sydney State Theatre, 2-13 EV Opera House
2014 - USA - Memphis, Detroit, MOLINE, St. Paul, MILWAUKEE, Denver, 25/26 Bridge School
2016 - Lexington, Philly x 2, MSG x 2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto x 2, Pemberton, Fenway x 2, Wrigley x 2
2018 - Seattle x 2, Missoula, Fenway x 2
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
Blondie, Sugar Hill, Beastie Boys, 311, Cypress Hill just to name a few?!?
Eminem, Drake, Biggie, Tupac, Puffy, Dre?
DeLa Soul, Lucas, Public Enemy, Jay-Z?!?
Surely something you've heard you like?
Parlimament Funkadelic, Sly and the family stone, James Brown?!?
Maclemore & Ryan Lewis?
"most of the samples used on Paul's Boutique were cleared, easily and affordably, something that would be 'unthinkable' in today's litigious music industry."
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/articles/dust.htm
Again sorry my quote was wrong....
My prediction: Kanye goes on stage. It goes well. The sun comes up the next morning and Glasto 2015 was as good as any other year.
(Trouble Funk will probably be able to address the technicality that stopped the suit and come back and sue again). But I did think the Beasties were better about clearance so thanks for showing that mostly, they did clear samples.
Always wondered if they got clearance from Jaws?