Sam Smith....evidence rock and roll may finally be dead

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,357
    PJ_Soul said:

    Yeah, when I saw the lineup for the Squamish festival.and this guy was headlining I rolled my eyes. Wtf?? Everyone I know thinks the lineup is super lame. Fucking Drake, Sam Smith, and freaking Mumford & Sons are the headliners for arguably the biggest rock music festival in the province. What the fucking fuck?

    Drake kills it. He's good.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,959

    PJ_Soul said:

    Yeah, when I saw the lineup for the Squamish festival.and this guy was headlining I rolled my eyes. Wtf?? Everyone I know thinks the lineup is super lame. Fucking Drake, Sam Smith, and freaking Mumford & Sons are the headliners for arguably the biggest rock music festival in the province. What the fucking fuck?

    Drake kills it. He's good.
    Not if you don't like rap. ;)
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  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,905
    vant0037 said:

    Wow. I get that pop isn't your thing (not really mine either). But give credit where it's due: this Sam Smith dude has an incredible voice.

    "Sam Cooke said this when told he had a beautiful voice: He said, 'Well that's very kind of you, but voices ought not to be measured by how pretty they are. Instead they matter only if they convince you that they are telling the truth.' Think about that the next time you are listening to a singer."

    - Bob Dylan during his MusiCares Person of the Year acceptance speech
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  • mwplummwplum Posts: 1,531

    vant0037 said:

    Wow. I get that pop isn't your thing (not really mine either). But give credit where it's due: this Sam Smith dude has an incredible voice.

    "Sam Cooke said this when told he had a beautiful voice: He said, 'Well that's very kind of you, but voices ought not to be measured by how pretty they are. Instead they matter only if they convince you that they are telling the truth.' Think about that the next time you are listening to a singer."

    - Bob Dylan during his MusiCares Person of the Year acceptance speech
    Isn't this essentially the entire problem with this generation of pop music? They may have great voices, but if those voices say nothing, then they have no substance. Most seem to found on American Idol or through similar talent searches, then supported behind a team of writers/producers, stylists, managers, etc.. to the point where it's hard to give credit. What they put out is not necessarily a reflection of them or their beliefs.

    When you put a nicely manufactured, easily palatable, artist like Sam at the top of a music festival bill above other artists who have struggled, written/composed their own music, and toured extensively in dive bars for relevance, it's hard to give the popstars much credit.

    I have friends who listen to Sam now, who are the same types of friends who make fun of me for "still listening" to Pearl Jam or Oasis because "better man" and "wonderwall"...."were like so 20 years ago, when we were still in grade 8." They are the same types of people who have adapted their musical tastes over the yeas to include favourite bands like maroon 5, mumford and sons, taylor swift, katy perry, beyonce, etc...I think quite simply, because they want an escape that takes them away from thinking. That's fine, I do the same through vacations, etc... I just certainly don't want that from my music. Music is somewhere that I turn to for thought, for inspiration, for emotion.

    Those same friends are the ones who ask me why I don't such artists, since they "are like, so talented" and "have such great voices"....

    I think it really comes down to a laziness in our society to search out and find new, original, awesome bands (of which there are tons of them out there).
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  • vant0037vant0037 Posts: 6,117
    Rock and roll was never defined by a festival lineup.
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  • jerparker20jerparker20 Posts: 2,501
    edited March 2015
    mwplum said:



    Isn't this essentially the entire problem with this generation of pop music? They may have great voices, but if those voices say nothing, then they have no substance. Most seem to found on American Idol or through similar talent searches, then supported behind a team of writers/producers, stylists, managers, etc.. to the point where it's hard to give credit. What they put out is not necessarily a reflection of them or their beliefs.

    When you put a nicely manufactured, easily palatable, artist like Sam at the top of a music festival bill above other artists who have struggled, written/composed their own music, and toured extensively in dive bars for relevance, it's hard to give the popstars much credit.

    I have friends who listen to Sam now, who are the same types of friends who make fun of me for "still listening" to Pearl Jam or Oasis because "better man" and "wonderwall"...."were like so 20 years ago, when we were still in grade 8." They are the same types of people who have adapted their musical tastes over the yeas to include favourite bands like maroon 5, mumford and sons, taylor swift, katy perry, beyonce, etc...I think quite simply, because they want an escape that takes them away from thinking. That's fine, I do the same through vacations, etc... I just certainly don't want that from my music. Music is somewhere that I turn to for thought, for inspiration, for emotion.

    Those same friends are the ones who ask me why I don't such artists, since they "are like, so talented" and "have such great voices"....

    I think it really comes down to a laziness in our society to search out and find new, original, awesome bands (of which there are tons of them out there).
    Just remember:

    the Beatles, Stones, anyone on Sun Records, Motown, Stax, and countless more started out as "pop acts" with other people writing songs for them, telling them how to dress, and putting them on popular TV shows such as Ed Sullivan and Top of the Pops to lip-sync in front of millions of people. These folks are considered "true artists", but if you do that today then that artist is a first -rate hack?!?

    I gave up on judging what constitutes what is great music long ago after my wife called me out for being a "music snob." Now I just go with the fact that theres stuff I like, and stuff I don't. If I don't like it, I don't try to tell people that I think they have shitty taste in music. So long as they're enjoying music, hell they may even explore some other great music because of it.

    As for festivals, it's the promotors job to sell tickets and put asses in seats. If it takes Sam Smith or Taylor Swift, then that's who's playing. I'm sure there are a lot more people who would like to see those artist versus PJ or some other "true artist" and that's cool.
    Post edited by jerparker20 on
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,357
    mwplum said:

    vant0037 said:

    Wow. I get that pop isn't your thing (not really mine either). But give credit where it's due: this Sam Smith dude has an incredible voice.

    "Sam Cooke said this when told he had a beautiful voice: He said, 'Well that's very kind of you, but voices ought not to be measured by how pretty they are. Instead they matter only if they convince you that they are telling the truth.' Think about that the next time you are listening to a singer."

    - Bob Dylan during his MusiCares Person of the Year acceptance speech
    Isn't this essentially the entire problem with this generation of pop music? They may have great voices, but if those voices say nothing, then they have no substance. Most seem to found on American Idol or through similar talent searches, then supported behind a team of writers/producers, stylists, managers, etc.. to the point where it's hard to give credit. What they put out is not necessarily a reflection of them or their beliefs.

    When you put a nicely manufactured, easily palatable, artist like Sam at the top of a music festival bill above other artists who have struggled, written/composed their own music, and toured extensively in dive bars for relevance, it's hard to give the popstars much credit.

    I have friends who listen to Sam now, who are the same types of friends who make fun of me for "still listening" to Pearl Jam or Oasis because "better man" and "wonderwall"...."were like so 20 years ago, when we were still in grade 8." They are the same types of people who have adapted their musical tastes over the yeas to include favourite bands like maroon 5, mumford and sons, taylor swift, katy perry, beyonce, etc...I think quite simply, because they want an escape that takes them away from thinking. That's fine, I do the same through vacations, etc... I just certainly don't want that from my music. Music is somewhere that I turn to for thought, for inspiration, for emotion.

    Those same friends are the ones who ask me why I don't such artists, since they "are like, so talented" and "have such great voices"....

    I think it really comes down to a laziness in our society to search out and find new, original, awesome bands (of which there are tons of them out there).
    Well put.

    In defense of Pop music which for the most part I think is awful (think Selena Gomez) there is Sam Smith who pours his heart out in "stay with me".

    Bruno Mars has been killing it and his latest song "Uptown Funk" is a homage to 70's funk and is hella fun.

    Drake, Nikki Minaj, Wayne and the YM crew have been cranking out some great music.

    Taylor Swift is just fun, she really is.

    All that being said Pop music fades and never really has staying power. I don't recall a "Calssic R&B or Top 40" station out there. We do have Classic rock and College radio though.

    Rock music has become a little geeky sometimes but then again you have bands like Ty Segall and Thee Oh Sees with a different kind of West Coast sound that are just killing it.

    The Weeks are a great upcoming band and are developing a following.

    There is ALWAYS music out there to listen to, always. Sometimes that "new music ain't got that same soul" but it can still move you.

    :-)

    Don't lose hope on new music!
  • buck502000buck502000 Posts: 8,951
    vant0037 said:

    Rock and roll was never defined by a festival lineup.

    I can hit it when you throw it right down the middle - Woodstock
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,079
    Pretty sure RnR was around well before Woodstock.
  • Its not dead. It wont ever be dead. Its just not popular. Its what jazz was in the 60s.

    Hahaha....and look how well that turned out.
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  • vant0037vant0037 Posts: 6,117

    vant0037 said:

    Rock and roll was never defined by a festival lineup.

    I can hit it when you throw it right down the middle - Woodstock
    Woodstock defined rock and roll? I think the fact that Woodstock even could exist in the way that it did is proof positive to just the opposite.
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  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,429
    I dunno...I think if you say "Define rock and roll with one word", Woodstock is gonna be one of the first replies. I do get the point about rock not being defined by a festival lineup, but Woodstock came pretty damn close when you look at the performers and the spirit with which it was put together.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,357
    Define rock in one word? Two come to mind...

    Chuck and Didley!!!
  • lolobugglolobugg Posts: 8,192

    Define rock in one word? Two come to mind...

    Chuck and Didley!!!

    ^ def this

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  • AggAgg Posts: 462

    DewieCox said:

    Pop music seems to have more musical talent on display than what is popular with rock music. People like Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars are insanely talented musicians. The same can't really be said for the many rock acts that make a big splash.

    I don't care if Lady Gaga or Bruno Mars can play an instrument or write their own songs, their music is down right terrible to me.


    Also if this is in reference to the V fest announcement, just go see Kasabian instead. They aren't very good, but there is your rock.

    Kasabian are a very good live band. I like a lot of their songs and their show would be 1000X better than any pop act.
    I agree that Lady Gaga's music is terrible, but not Bruno Mars. I hated him until Uptown Funk, but once that came out, I liked it so much that I bought his two previous CDs. I think he's very talented. His ballads are hit or miss (Just The Way You Are is terrible, imo), but I definitely wouldn't group him in with most of the other pop crap out there. Plus, I think he plays about 5 instruments, not just one. :wink:
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  • lolobugglolobugg Posts: 8,192
    Agg said:

    DewieCox said:

    Pop music seems to have more musical talent on display than what is popular with rock music. People like Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars are insanely talented musicians. The same can't really be said for the many rock acts that make a big splash.

    I don't care if Lady Gaga or Bruno Mars can play an instrument or write their own songs, their music is down right terrible to me.


    Also if this is in reference to the V fest announcement, just go see Kasabian instead. They aren't very good, but there is your rock.

    Kasabian are a very good live band. I like a lot of their songs and their show would be 1000X better than any pop act.
    I agree that Lady Gaga's music is terrible, but not Bruno Mars. I hated him until Uptown Funk, but once that came out, I liked it so much that I bought his two previous CDs. I think he's very talented. His ballads are hit or miss (Just The Way You Are is terrible, imo), but I definitely wouldn't group him in with most of the other pop crap out there. Plus, I think he plays about 5 instruments, not just one. :wink:
    I liked Bruno better the first time I heard him....
    when he was called James Brown.

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,959
    It seems to me that rock is alive and well. I spend a lot of time listening to new rock artists and spend a lot of money on them too, and I'm pretty sure I'm not just dreaming it.
    Nevertheless, having Sam Smith headline a rock festival is fucking stupid.
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  • Attaway77Attaway77 Posts: 3,154
    I'm confused here, please help me. Is Sam Smith headlining a "Rock" festival or is he headlining a music festival? Could give two shits about the guy, but he has some good songs. Isn't that what your suppose to do if you have talent at your chosen profession, make music and go play it live to the audience who wants to hear it? I saw Squamish Valley Music Festival, not Squamish Valley Rock Festival. Who gives a shit? It's music and people enjoy it just like we enjoy PJ.. Music is meant to be explored, not enjoyed behind closed doors.
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  • mwplummwplum Posts: 1,531
    But the point is this segment of "music" would never be "enjoyed behind closed doors" because it's exactly the type of music that gets pushed in commercials, by corporations, by live nation in promoting their massive stadium tours...it easily digested and mass marketed...it is the fast food of music.

    I am frankly shocked by the support of PJ fans for having such "artists" headline festivals.

    Let's not kid ourselves, these are traditionally rock festivals. If you look at Woodstock, it's real full name was the Woodstock Music & Art Fair...but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue it wasn't a rock festival.

    I once saw an interview with Justin Bieber when he was a kid, and it was about how talented he was, claiming that he could play like 30 different instruments. It would say something like... "he can play the drums" and then he would come over and bang out some out of time noise for 10 seconds, and then "he can play the trumpet" and he'd come over and play one note out of trumpet note, "bbvmmmmmmm".....so while the narrator was trying to sell the audience on him being this multi-instrument prodigy....the truth was he was a propped up little puppet that could play multiple instruments no better then my dog can.

    The reason I hark back to that example is because I get the feeling its the same with Bruno. Does he actually play multiple instruments on his albums (say like Dave Grohl did on the self-titled FF debut?) or is it the multi-instrument story just an easily digested narrative to make people think he is "so talented"...I claim ignorance as I only saw him at the Super Bowl, where the drum beat he was playing was so basic that someone could play it after their first lesson. To me that does not make them talented, it just makes them more marketable.
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  • JH6056JH6056 Posts: 2,427
    mwplum said:

    But the point is this segment of "music" would never be "enjoyed behind closed doors" because it's exactly the type of music that gets pushed in commercials, by corporations, by live nation in promoting their massive stadium tours...it easily digested and mass marketed...it is the fast food of music.

    I am frankly shocked by the support of PJ fans for having such "artists" headline festivals.

    Let's not kid ourselves, these are traditionally rock festivals. If you look at Woodstock, it's real full name was the Woodstock Music & Art Fair...but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue it wasn't a rock festival.

    I once saw an interview with Justin Bieber when he was a kid, and it was about how talented he was, claiming that he could play like 30 different instruments. It would say something like... "he can play the drums" and then he would come over and bang out some out of time noise for 10 seconds, and then "he can play the trumpet" and he'd come over and play one note out of trumpet note, "bbvmmmmmmm".....so while the narrator was trying to sell the audience on him being this multi-instrument prodigy....the truth was he was a propped up little puppet that could play multiple instruments no better then my dog can.

    The reason I hark back to that example is because I get the feeling its the same with Bruno. Does he actually play multiple instruments on his albums (say like Dave Grohl did on the self-titled FF debut?) or is it the multi-instrument story just an easily digested narrative to make people think he is "so talented"...I claim ignorance as I only saw him at the Super Bowl, where the drum beat he was playing was so basic that someone could play it after their first lesson. To me that does not make them talented, it just makes them more marketable.

    To me, the consistent point made by many PJ fans here is: you are already screwed if you're looking to who is headlining festivals to tell you whether rock is alive and well. Just because there are waves of when festival headliners might be more "legit" according to PJ fans, and this seasons is not one of those waves, does not mean there isn't amazing rock happening in clubs, at the lower lineup tiers of those festivals (the "undercard"), or on local scenes.

    Rock has NEVER been best represented by what the most visible, popular, successful events deem "worthy". That was your first and main mistake in this conversation.
  • AggAgg Posts: 462
    mwplum said:

    But the point is this segment of "music" would never be "enjoyed behind closed doors" because it's exactly the type of music that gets pushed in commercials, by corporations, by live nation in promoting their massive stadium tours...it easily digested and mass marketed...it is the fast food of music.

    I am frankly shocked by the support of PJ fans for having such "artists" headline festivals.

    Let's not kid ourselves, these are traditionally rock festivals. If you look at Woodstock, it's real full name was the Woodstock Music & Art Fair...but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue it wasn't a rock festival.

    I once saw an interview with Justin Bieber when he was a kid, and it was about how talented he was, claiming that he could play like 30 different instruments. It would say something like... "he can play the drums" and then he would come over and bang out some out of time noise for 10 seconds, and then "he can play the trumpet" and he'd come over and play one note out of trumpet note, "bbvmmmmmmm".....so while the narrator was trying to sell the audience on him being this multi-instrument prodigy....the truth was he was a propped up little puppet that could play multiple instruments no better then my dog can.

    The reason I hark back to that example is because I get the feeling its the same with Bruno. Does he actually play multiple instruments on his albums (say like Dave Grohl did on the self-titled FF debut?) or is it the multi-instrument story just an easily digested narrative to make people think he is "so talented"...I claim ignorance as I only saw him at the Super Bowl, where the drum beat he was playing was so basic that someone could play it after their first lesson. To me that does not make them talented, it just makes them more marketable.

    I'm not sure about Bruno's second album, but I know that on his debut album he did play most of the instruments himself (and wrote the songs). I think he also plays the drums/guitar/keyboard for certain songs during his shows. Of course there are a lot of other artists that do this, but I do think he's much more talented than popstars like Bieber, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, etc. This is coming from someone who hates 99.9% of pop music, but Bruno's the one "pop" artist I'll listen to and I'd be happy to see him at a festival.
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  • mwplummwplum Posts: 1,531
    JH6056 said:

    mwplum said:

    But the point is this segment of "music" would never be "enjoyed behind closed doors" because it's exactly the type of music that gets pushed in commercials, by corporations, by live nation in promoting their massive stadium tours...it easily digested and mass marketed...it is the fast food of music.

    I am frankly shocked by the support of PJ fans for having such "artists" headline festivals.

    Let's not kid ourselves, these are traditionally rock festivals. If you look at Woodstock, it's real full name was the Woodstock Music & Art Fair...but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue it wasn't a rock festival.

    I once saw an interview with Justin Bieber when he was a kid, and it was about how talented he was, claiming that he could play like 30 different instruments. It would say something like... "he can play the drums" and then he would come over and bang out some out of time noise for 10 seconds, and then "he can play the trumpet" and he'd come over and play one note out of trumpet note, "bbvmmmmmmm".....so while the narrator was trying to sell the audience on him being this multi-instrument prodigy....the truth was he was a propped up little puppet that could play multiple instruments no better then my dog can.

    The reason I hark back to that example is because I get the feeling its the same with Bruno. Does he actually play multiple instruments on his albums (say like Dave Grohl did on the self-titled FF debut?) or is it the multi-instrument story just an easily digested narrative to make people think he is "so talented"...I claim ignorance as I only saw him at the Super Bowl, where the drum beat he was playing was so basic that someone could play it after their first lesson. To me that does not make them talented, it just makes them more marketable.

    To me, the consistent point made by many PJ fans here is: you are already screwed if you're looking to who is headlining festivals to tell you whether rock is alive and well. Just because there are waves of when festival headliners might be more "legit" according to PJ fans, and this seasons is not one of those waves, does not mean there isn't amazing rock happening in clubs, at the lower lineup tiers of those festivals (the "undercard"), or on local scenes.

    Rock has NEVER been best represented by what the most visible, popular, successful events deem "worthy". That was your first and main mistake in this conversation.
    ^^^I think you've focused a little too much on the title and not the content of my original post

    I clearly don't think that rock is dead, or that rock will ever be dead. I go to tons of shows at smaller venues, and in the last year have seen great shows from the likes of Metz, Cloud Nothings, Ty Segall, etc...

    The point was that if you look at the past histories of festivals such as Coachella, ACL, Lolla, and Bonnaroo, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone as commercial as Sam Smith, or as boring as Sam Smith, or as least qualified to close a festival as Sam Smith. I can think of very few artists who have been honoured with a headlining slot at a festival after only one album. Can you think of any others? I honestly cannot think of one.

    This is the second weak year of festivals as a whole, and I'm interested to see if this signals a more permanent change (a reactive change to the vast increase in the number of new festivals all fighting for the same dollar), or is just a passing wave. Time will tell.
    1992-07-21 Vancouver
    1993-9-4 Vancouver
    1996-9-16 Seattle
    1998-7-19 Vancouver, 7-21 Seattle, Memorial Stadium
    2000-11-6 Seattle
    2001-10-22 Seattle
    2002 -12-09 Seattle
    2009-8-17 Manchester, 9-25 Vancouver
    2011-6-16 Seattle (EV), 9-3/4 PJ20, 9-25 Vancouver
    2012-6-27 Amsterdam (#2!)
    2013-11-29 Portland, 12-4 Vancouver, 12-6 Seattle
    2014-AUS - 1-26 Sydney, 1-31 Adelaide, 2-11/12 EV Sydney State Theatre, 2-13 EV Opera House
    2014 - USA - Memphis, Detroit, MOLINE, St. Paul, MILWAUKEE, Denver, 25/26 Bridge School
    2016 - Lexington, Philly x 2, MSG x 2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto x 2, Pemberton, Fenway x 2, Wrigley x 2
    2018 - Seattle x 2, Missoula, Fenway x 2
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,079
    I think your disconnect is that you view pop music as less legitimate than rock, because the easy answer to your original questions is rock isn't popular any more and Sam Smith is. (and there are very few headlining rock acts touring this year, let alone in general).

    If you can't respect people who don't play every instrument, or sell pepsi or whatever, That's fine, that's on you (personally I think you are missing out on some enjoyable fun music). But the reality is a large group of people are fine with that and the festivals are going to change to incorporate that because ultimately, festivals exist because they know some people like music and they want to make money from that. They don't give a shit about progressing "the cause" of rock, or EDM, or political folk. They reflect the times, at times they may be the zeitgeist (like Woodstock), but for the most part, they are just an extension, a touchstone, never the actual cultural moment.


    Personally, I used to think the same way about pop music as you. Less legitimate. But I've found as I got older, I was just missing out on other good music. It may not always be deep, but that's Ok. I guarantee you the amount of effort put into a Kelly Clarkson song that is written for her, or the effort Taylor Swift puts into her music. or Beyonce and her co-writers and producers, or Kanye West and his samples, is every iota the amount of effort put into a Pearl Jam song. I think that makes it every bit as legitimate and other music crafted by bands that create music in a different way.
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,079
    Ultimately the market will decide if Sam Smith was a good choice. I suspect it will be fine, but he's been doing arena shows in the US and UK, so I'm sure he has enough material for a set.

    Arcade Fire headlined Lolla after 1 album, Hell, the Postal Service headlined a shitload of festivals and they were famous for having only 1 album.

    While it's not common to healing after 1 album, I think it's a testament to how popular someone is. And Sam Smith is pretty popular right now. Especially after the Grammys.
  • mwplummwplum Posts: 1,531
    Hey Tim, I like your opinions and this is interesting dialogue. I wonder if my opinions may change over time too. Out of interest, did your opinions change after having kids (assuming you have kids)? I don't, but I have 4 and 1 year old niece/nephew, and I find these songs somewhat more tolerable when sung/enjoyed by them (i.e. the Frozen song, etc...) Seeing how happy it makes them, makes my old snobby/grinchy opinions seem to melt a bit.

    Still I wouldn't choose it for casual listening or at festivals, but who knows? Maybe that will change over time. At one point I enjoyed hip hop, but cringe at the thought of most of it now. Life is all about progression, and yeah, maybe someday I'll be listening to Miley, Ke$ha, and Taylor Swift (or their future counterparts).

    As for 1 album trivia....good try, but I'd say we're still looking for a winner...

    First time Arcade Fire played Lolla was in 2005, and were billed on the posted behind Pixies, Widespread Panic, Weezer, Killers, Primus, Dinosaur Jr. Cake, Dashboard Confessional....on their night, they were high up there, but still behind the Killers on that stage. Using Coachella as an example too, they had to really work their way for that honour. After playing during the day on the second stage in 2005, they worked their way up to third on the MainStage by 2007, before finally being honoured with headline slots in 2011 and 2014.

    Also with Postal Service, they still for the most part weren't headlining major festivals (maybe smaller ones). When I saw them at Coachella, they were the third headliner on the MainStage behind even the xx and Phoenix (plus they weren't exactly coming off their first album, as I'm sure you know, they were celebrating the 10th anniversary of a platinum selling album, which essentially defined a generation).

    This is fun though, any other answers out there? Name one band/artist that has headlined major festivals say the last say 15 years after one album?

    1992-07-21 Vancouver
    1993-9-4 Vancouver
    1996-9-16 Seattle
    1998-7-19 Vancouver, 7-21 Seattle, Memorial Stadium
    2000-11-6 Seattle
    2001-10-22 Seattle
    2002 -12-09 Seattle
    2009-8-17 Manchester, 9-25 Vancouver
    2011-6-16 Seattle (EV), 9-3/4 PJ20, 9-25 Vancouver
    2012-6-27 Amsterdam (#2!)
    2013-11-29 Portland, 12-4 Vancouver, 12-6 Seattle
    2014-AUS - 1-26 Sydney, 1-31 Adelaide, 2-11/12 EV Sydney State Theatre, 2-13 EV Opera House
    2014 - USA - Memphis, Detroit, MOLINE, St. Paul, MILWAUKEE, Denver, 25/26 Bridge School
    2016 - Lexington, Philly x 2, MSG x 2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto x 2, Pemberton, Fenway x 2, Wrigley x 2
    2018 - Seattle x 2, Missoula, Fenway x 2
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,079
    My opinions did change before my kids, but now having them I have to say its nice to have this music to fall back on. But I don't play it to them exclusively. They Hear Aphex Twin, Sleater Kinney, Thee Oh Sees, Taylor Swift, and clean versions of Kanye albums.

    I'm still saying the Postal Service is my winner. They headlined Sasquach and Lolla for sure, those are pretty big. And technically they were coming off their first (and only) album, it just took them 10 years to do it. I'm sure Sam Smith and them are comparable in terms of popularity (but probably not influence).

  • JH6056JH6056 Posts: 2,427
    mwplum said:

    JH6056 said:

    mwplum said:

    But the point is this segment of "music" would never be "enjoyed behind closed doors" because it's exactly the type of music that gets pushed in commercials, by corporations, by live nation in promoting their massive stadium tours...it easily digested and mass marketed...it is the fast food of music.

    I am frankly shocked by the support of PJ fans for having such "artists" headline festivals.

    Let's not kid ourselves, these are traditionally rock festivals. If you look at Woodstock, it's real full name was the Woodstock Music & Art Fair...but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue it wasn't a rock festival.

    I once saw an interview with Justin Bieber when he was a kid, and it was about how talented he was, claiming that he could play like 30 different instruments. It would say something like... "he can play the drums" and then he would come over and bang out some out of time noise for 10 seconds, and then "he can play the trumpet" and he'd come over and play one note out of trumpet note, "bbvmmmmmmm".....so while the narrator was trying to sell the audience on him being this multi-instrument prodigy....the truth was he was a propped up little puppet that could play multiple instruments no better then my dog can.

    The reason I hark back to that example is because I get the feeling its the same with Bruno. Does he actually play multiple instruments on his albums (say like Dave Grohl did on the self-titled FF debut?) or is it the multi-instrument story just an easily digested narrative to make people think he is "so talented"...I claim ignorance as I only saw him at the Super Bowl, where the drum beat he was playing was so basic that someone could play it after their first lesson. To me that does not make them talented, it just makes them more marketable.

    To me, the consistent point made by many PJ fans here is: you are already screwed if you're looking to who is headlining festivals to tell you whether rock is alive and well. Just because there are waves of when festival headliners might be more "legit" according to PJ fans, and this seasons is not one of those waves, does not mean there isn't amazing rock happening in clubs, at the lower lineup tiers of those festivals (the "undercard"), or on local scenes.

    Rock has NEVER been best represented by what the most visible, popular, successful events deem "worthy". That was your first and main mistake in this conversation.
    ^^^I think you've focused a little too much on the title and not the content of my original post

    I clearly don't think that rock is dead, or that rock will ever be dead. I go to tons of shows at smaller venues, and in the last year have seen great shows from the likes of Metz, Cloud Nothings, Ty Segall, etc...

    The point was that if you look at the past histories of festivals such as Coachella, ACL, Lolla, and Bonnaroo, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone as commercial as Sam Smith, or as boring as Sam Smith, or as least qualified to close a festival as Sam Smith. I can think of very few artists who have been honoured with a headlining slot at a festival after only one album. Can you think of any others? I honestly cannot think of one.

    This is the second weak year of festivals as a whole, and I'm interested to see if this signals a more permanent change (a reactive change to the vast increase in the number of new festivals all fighting for the same dollar), or is just a passing wave. Time will tell.
    Actually, I very much was also responding to the content of your actual post. It's ok to agree to disagree. I just never understood (including in this conversation) what who was headlining music festivals had to do with whether rock was alive and well, which is indeed the whole point of your posts.

    I used to be a huge fan of SXSW and went for many years from '91-'07. Before '07 and definitely since then, it has turned into a behemouth (sp?) of a festival that is no longer mainly about signing un-signed bands. It's huge, it's got it's share of reunion and "rare appearance" acts, and it's something totally different than it was.

    And yet... what does that have to do with the health or status of rock and roll in general? Zippo, nada, nothing.

    Revolutionary music (which includes way more than rock), or even just good old hard working awesome rock and roll, exists in so many formats, and what the market is doing, what the music business is highlighting... it usually reflects what's popular. Sometimes what's good is also popular, often not.

    Then there's that pesky fact that what is "good" is a matter of opinion anyway... ;)
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,357
    ACL headliners…

    Beck, Eminem, Pearl Jam, Skrillex, Outkast, Calvin Harris and Lorde the second week. Pretty mixed group.

    Oh and Sam Smith was there too but I missed out on seeing him. I really wanted to catch his act because I knew he was gonna blow up.
  • jervin007jervin007 Posts: 3,182
    Sam Smith isn't necessarily a bad artist. I would much rather hear him than other pop stars. Definitely not a headliner though. Just not up beat enough.
    PJ:
    2003 Mansfield: July 2
    2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
    2005 Montreal: Sept 15
    2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
    2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
    2010 Boston: May 17
    2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
    2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7

    EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Posts: 16,444
    Uptown Funk is actually by Mark Ronson, with Bruno on vox. Both excellent artists!
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