his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
Reality is no one is saying Israel is going away, but the sad thing is your man bibi is saying Palestine will go away. How's that for shitty reality?
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
Reality is no one is saying Israel is going away, but the sad thing is your man bibi is saying Palestine will go away. How's that for shitty reality?
Bibi ain't my man. Completely indifferent to who won or lost as it actually would make no different on the ground. With Hamas calling the shots on behalf of Palestine there is no partner for peace. That is reality.
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
Reality is no one is saying Israel is going away, but the sad thing is your man bibi is saying Palestine will go away. How's that for shitty reality?
Bibi ain't my man. Completely indifferent to who won or lost as it actually would make no different on the ground. With Hamas calling the shots on behalf of Palestine there is no partner for peace. That is reality.
My how quickly we forget last summer. Don't worry, it'll repeat itself for u and all to see again and again and again and again till there is no Palestine. And then you can smile and say, awesome job Israel. I can't fucken believe people like you refuse to see and accept what reality REALLY is. But I forgot, you know more then most on this subject. I don't quite remember the exact wording you used. Something like that. Hey, have a great night.
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
Reality is no one is saying Israel is going away, but the sad thing is your man bibi is saying Palestine will go away. How's that for shitty reality?
Bibi ain't my man. Completely indifferent to who won or lost as it actually would make no different on the ground. With Hamas calling the shots on behalf of Palestine there is no partner for peace. That is reality.
hamas is NOT THE CAUSE OF THE CONFLICT. hamas is a SYMPTOM OF THE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION.
peace rests with israel. the bigges barrier to peace in the entire region is israel.
if israel does not work for peace, there is no peace. period. end of story. if israel wanted peace, and direct negotiations with the palestinians, they would stop building illegal settlements instead of expanding them.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
Reality is no one is saying Israel is going away, but the sad thing is your man bibi is saying Palestine will go away. How's that for shitty reality?
Bibi ain't my man. Completely indifferent to who won or lost as it actually would make no different on the ground. With Hamas calling the shots on behalf of Palestine there is no partner for peace. That is reality.
With an oppressor/oppressed relationship there is no grounds for dialogue for discussion: the oppressor is constantly in a position to deny the legitimacy of any governing bodies of the oppressed regions, whether it's Hamas or the PLO. And why do Hamas resist the way they do? Because the oppressive Israeli government took away the modern ways of struggle: the power of a voice with impact, and the power of assets (land).
I fucking hate your version of this reality, and couldn't disagree more. So, I've attached my version of reality below, as produced by the wise doctor (Seuss).
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Well, it’s pretty clear now: Benjamin Netanyahu is going to be a major figure in Israeli history — not because he’s heading to become the longest-serving Israeli prime minister, but because he’s heading to be the most impactful. Having won the Israeli elections — in part by declaring that he will never permit a two state-solution between Israelis and Palestinians — it means Netanyahu will be the father of the one-state solution. And the one-state solution means that Israel will become, in time, either a non-Jewish democracy or Jewish non-democracy.
Yes, sir, Bibi is going to make history. And the leader in the world who is most happy that Netanyahu ran on — and won on — a one-state solution is the Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Oh, my goodness. They must have been doing high-fives and “Allahu akbars” all night in the ruling circles of Tehran when they saw how low Bibi sank to win. What better way to isolate Israel globally and deflect attention from Iran’s behavior?
The biggest losers in all of this, besides all the Israelis who did not vote for Netanyahu, are American Jews and non-Jews who support Israel. What Bibi did to win this election was move the Likud Party from a center-right party to a far-right one. The additional votes he got were all grabbed from the other far-right parties — not from the center. When the official government of Israel is a far-right party that rejects a two-state solution and employs anti-Arab dog whistles to get elected, it will split the basic unity of the American Jewish community on Israel. How many American Jews want to defend a one-state solution in Washington or on their college campuses? Is Aipac, the Israel lobby, now going to push for a one-state solution on Capitol Hill? How many Democrats and Republicans would endorse that?
Warning: Real trouble ahead.
You cannot win that dirty and just walk away like nothing happened. In the days before Israelis went to the polls, Netanyahu was asked by the Israeli news site, NRG, if it was true that a Palestinian state would never be formed on his watch as prime minister, Netanyahu replied, “Indeed,” adding: “Anyone who is going to establish a Palestinian state, anyone who is going to evacuate territories today, is simply giving a base for attacks to the radical Islam against Israel.”
This makes null and void his speech in June 2009 at Bar Ilan University, where Netanyahu had laid out a different “vision of peace,” saying: “In this small land of ours, two peoples live freely, side by side, in amity and mutual respect. Each will have its own flag, its own national anthem, its own government. Neither will threaten the security or survival of the other.” Provided the Palestinian state recognizes Israel’s Jewish character and accepts demilitarization, he added, “We will be ready in a future peace agreement to reach a solution where a demilitarized Palestinian state exists alongside the Jewish state.”
Now, if there are not going to be two states for two peoples in the area between the Jordan River and Mediterranean, then there is going to be only one state — and that one state will either be a Jewish democracy that systematically denies the voting rights of about one-third of its people or it will be a democracy and systematically erodes the Jewish character of Israel.
Just look at the numbers: In 2014, the estimated Palestinian Arab population of the West Bank was 2.72 million, with roughly 40 percent under the age of 14. There are already 1.7 million Israeli Arabs citizens — who assembled all their parties together in the latest election onto one list and came in third. Together, the West Bankers and Israeli Arabs constitute 4.4 million people. There are 6.2 million Israeli Jews. According to statistics from the Jewish Virtual Library, the Jewish population of Israel grew by 1.7 percent over the past year, and the Arab population grew by 2.2 percent.
If there is only one state, Israel cannot be Jewish and permit West Bank Palestinians to exercise any voting rights alongside Israeli Arabs. But if Israel is one state and wants to be democratic, how does it continue depriving West Bankers of the vote — when you can be sure they will make it their No. 1 demand.
I doubt, in the heat of the campaign, Netanyahu gave any of this much thought when he tossed the two-state solution out the window of his campaign bus in a successful 11th-hour grab for far-right voters. To be sure, he could disavow his two-state disavowal tomorrow. It would not surprise me. He is that cynical. But, if he doesn’t — if the official platform of his new government is that there is no more two-state solution — it will produce both a hostile global reaction and, in time, a Palestinian move in the West Bank for voting rights in Israel, combined with an attempt to put Israel in the docket in the International Criminal Court. How far is the Obama administration going to go in defending Israel after it officially rejects a two-state solution? I don’t know. But we’ll be in a new world.
No one on the planet will enjoy watching Israel and America caught on the horns of this dilemma more than the clerical regime in Tehran. It is a godsend for them. Iran’s unstated position is that the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem must be perpetuated forever. Because few things serve Iran’s interests more than having radical Jewish settlers in a never-ending grinding conflict with Palestinians — and the more bloodshed and squashing of any two-state diplomatic options the better. Because, in that conflict, the Palestinians are almost always depicted as the underdogs and the Israelis as the bullies trying to deprive them of basic rights. From Iran’s point of view, it makes fantastic TV on Al Jazeera, and all the European networks; it undermines Israel’s legitimacy with the young generation on college campuses around the globe; and it keeps the whole world much more focused on Israeli civil rights abuses against Palestinians rather than the massive civil rights abuses perpetrated by the Iranian regime against its own people.
It is stunning how much Bibi’s actions serve Tehran’s strategic interests.
And that is why I am certain that Benjamin Netanyahu is going to be a historic, very impactful prime minister in Jewish history. I just hope that — somehow — a Jewish democratic Israel survives his tenure.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
Reality is no one is saying Israel is going away, but the sad thing is your man bibi is saying Palestine will go away. How's that for shitty reality?
Bibi ain't my man. Completely indifferent to who won or lost as it actually would make no different on the ground. With Hamas calling the shots on behalf of Palestine there is no partner for peace. That is reality.
hamas is NOT THE CAUSE OF THE CONFLICT. hamas is a SYMPTOM OF THE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION.
peace rests with israel. the bigges barrier to peace in the entire region is israel.
if israel does not work for peace, there is no peace. period. end of story. if israel wanted peace, and direct negotiations with the palestinians, they would stop building illegal settlements instead of expanding them.
Hamas is not the cause of the conflict but they perpetuate the conflict. They have co-opted the Palestinian cause and are now the greatest obstacle to peace. No rational person would ever make a deal with them. That is reality. Deal with it.
his statements the last 3 days will further isolate israel in the eyes of the international community, excluding the us, that is...
The "international community" doesn't really exist as an entity that can change the status quo. Egypt has declared Hamas to be a terrorist organization. Jordan, The UAE and Saudi Arabia now align themselves with Israel against Iran. Canada, Australia, and others are staunchly pro-Israel and in a couple of years the Obama foreign policy which pressured Israel more then any previous US administration will be over. The ICC and the UN have no muscle without the involvement of the above players being on board. The reality on the ground is that until Palestinians rid themselves of the Islamofascists that have co-opted their movement no progress can or will be made. It is time for deep introspection for all those that support the Palestinian cause.
one man's "islamofascist" is another man's freedom fighter.
austalia is very critical of israel. they will be moreso now. most of europe is going to turn on israel, all they will have left is the united states, and with icy relations, they will be more and more isolated.
bibi wants war. and he is gonna get it.
Who is going to give it to him? Is there a coalition of the willing planning regime change?
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
Reality is no one is saying Israel is going away, but the sad thing is your man bibi is saying Palestine will go away. How's that for shitty reality?
Bibi ain't my man. Completely indifferent to who won or lost as it actually would make no different on the ground. With Hamas calling the shots on behalf of Palestine there is no partner for peace. That is reality.
hamas is NOT THE CAUSE OF THE CONFLICT. hamas is a SYMPTOM OF THE ILLEGAL OCCUPATION.
peace rests with israel. the bigges barrier to peace in the entire region is israel.
if israel does not work for peace, there is no peace. period. end of story. if israel wanted peace, and direct negotiations with the palestinians, they would stop building illegal settlements instead of expanding them.
Hamas is not the cause of the conflict but they perpetuate the conflict. They have co-opted the Palestinian cause and are now the greatest obstacle to peace. No rational person would ever make a deal with them. That is reality. Deal with it.
this is what i have been saying since 2008. i am glad that journalists in an israeli newspaper FINALLY call it that way.
Israel chooses the path to apartheid It was once possible to argue that Israel's policies were not the same as apartheid because their stated goal, however imperfectly pursued, was to end the occupation. After Netanyahu's reelection, this is no longer the case.
In my quarter century as Washington correspondent for Jewish newspapers, I frequently defended Israel against charges that it had created an apartheid system in the West Bank. But this week's election, with Benjamin Netanyahu poised to serve another term with an even more hardline coalition, means that apartheid is the path Israeli voters have chosen. The inevitable results will include even greater international isolation for the Jewish state, a boost to efforts to apply boycotts and sanctions, diminished support from American Jews and endlessly intensifying cycles of violence.
Since the Madrid peace process began in 1991, it was possible – though sometimes with great difficulty – to argue that Israel wanted to find some route to accommodation with the Palestinians. Sure, there were huge obstacles to overcome, not the least of which was a shortsighted Palestinian leadership and a volatile, nervous electorate in Israel.
But government after government at least said the right things about the need to create a Palestinian state and to make painful compromises, even if action lagged far behind the words.
It was possible to accept journalist Gershom Gorenberg's thesis that the occupation was an "accidental empire," its endurance shaped less by determined policies than by inertia and political cowardice. It was awful to watch even progressive governments cringe before an aggressive settlers movement, but it was understandable, especially for Americans accustomed to the timidity of our own leaders in the face of aggressive extremists.
The idea of apartheid suggests the intent to make separation and unequal treatment permanent, and in the past it was possible to argue that for all the expansion of settlements, Israel was still looking for ways to end the occupation.
No more.
Frightened by the last minute rise of the Zionist Union list in polls, Netanyahu unambiguously expressed what critics have long asserted was his core ideology: no Palestinian state. No territorial concessions. None. Period.
And Israel's voters returned him to office, in what was widely reported as a resounding victory.
He was returned to power despite his attempt to shore up support on his political right by coming to Washington and undermining the relationship with Israel's most critical ally, the United States, and by giving a huge boost to Republican efforts to make support for Israel a political wedge issue instead of the bipartisan cause it has always been.
He was returned to power despite the ugly attempt to scare voters with the specter of a big turnout of Israeli Arabs.
And he was returned to power after his crystal clear rejection of Palestinian statehood and the territorial compromise that most of the world believes is the only way to ensure a peaceful future for a democratic Jewish state. There were reports this week that Netanyahu was attempting to walk those comments back, but his credibility on the issue of Palestinian statehood, never strong, is nonexistent.
In the absence of any willingness to work toward a Palestinian state in the West Bank, the future is clear: continuing occupation with no effort to find a way to end it, accelerating settlement construction and a hardening of policies toward Palestinians in the West Bank.
In other words, apartheid.
Mainstream Jewish groups go ballistic when they hear the term because of what it implies: an official policy of unfairness so profound that a fractious world unites against it with sanctions, boycotts and a pariah label for the perpetrators.
Once, it was possible to argue that Israel's policies were not the same as apartheid because their stated goal, however imperfectly pursued, was to end the occupation. No more: Bibi's reelection makes it clear that Israeli voters, more clearly aware of Netanyahu's intent than ever, have chosen the apartheid path, and will now have to live with the consequences.
American Jewish groups, key players in the coalition against South African apartheid, will resort to verbal gymnastics to argue that it's not the same. Or they will simply use the convenient ploy of pointing out all the bad decisions made by Palestinian leaders over the years. When the inevitable violence erupts and when the Palestinians, left with no other options, renew their push to condemn Israel in international bodies, they will circle the wagons to defend a Jewish state they claim is unfairly treated by a hostile world. They will ratchet up efforts to stifle even moderate dissent in the Jewish world. They'll blame the deepening divisions in the Jewish community on J Street.
Or they will say the no-statehood pledge was just politics as usual in Israel's fractious democracy, as meaningless as most other campaign promises.
And nobody outside an increasingly narrow pro-Israel tent will buy it. Because apartheid is apartheid, and that's exactly what Israeli voters chose this week as a course for their nation.
James Besser was Washington correspondent for the New York Jewish Week and other Anglo-Jewish newspapers for 24 years before his retirement in 2011.
A Feb. 17, 2012 file photo showing a protest against Israel's separation barrier in the West Bank village of Bilin. Photo by AP
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
An article written by a Zionist, gee, I wonder which way this article is going to lean. Come on man, u can do better then that. Or not.
You do realize that the Palestinians need to negotiate with zionists don't you?
A just settlement cannot be reached if you ignore them. You are proving my point that Israel has no one to negotiate with.
do you honestly believe they wish to negotiate?
Yes. Israel knows that the status quo cannot continue.
If it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck. If Israel says a one-state solution and a two-state solution are both infeasible options, do tell me how Israel wishes to negotiate. Coupons to McDavid's?
If Israel wished to negotiate, they would recognize the long-standing and justifiable aggression and opposition to Israeli presence in what was once peaceful and secularly-driven land, and uphold the notions of nobility and justice through the democracy they so cling to. They would say 'these are the cards we have been dealt, and we will negotiate with even those who we consider to be acting barbarically, because we have oppressed and now we must repent'.
They have done no such thing: each deal offers the same slap in the face for the same reason. Israel can not offer reparations and citizen status to 1948-67 Palestinian refugees because in one fell swoop it would delegitimize the seizure of land in 1948 (admitting that Palestinians were dislocated from their home, or at least that their homes were claimed upon their absence based on fear of Jewish invasion). In addition, it would utterly destroy Jewish superiority in the region (since an influx of - or voting rights being provided to upwards of 5.5 million Palestinian refugees would actually yield a similar voting Arab population as to Jewish population - plus the Arab growth rate of 2.2% is greater than the Jewish growth rate of 1.7%).
It's just human nature: people in power cling to their power. I believe Israel and Israelis are about to suffer in unimaginable ways, and they're going to learn that their isolationist stance does not lead to a sustainable future in the modern world. If they're lucky, they'll right wrongs after the BDS movement takes a tremendous toll on their economy. If they're unlucky, Bibi will refuse to change his ways, and the state will be in a constant position of war.
What Israelis said with their votes is that they are all in favour of the status quo, and they believe Netanyahu is the right person to ensure that it remains.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
An article written by a Zionist, gee, I wonder which way this article is going to lean. Come on man, u can do better then that. Or not.
You do realize that the Palestinians need to negotiate with zionists don't you?
A just settlement cannot be reached if you ignore them. You are proving my point that Israel has no one to negotiate with.
do you honestly believe they wish to negotiate?
Yes. Israel knows that the status quo cannot continue.
If it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck. If Israel says a one-state solution and a two-state solution are both infeasible options, do tell me how Israel wishes to negotiate. Coupons to McDavid's?
If Israel wished to negotiate, they would recognize the long-standing and justifiable aggression and opposition to Israeli presence in what was once peaceful and secularly-driven land, and uphold the notions of nobility and justice through the democracy they so cling to. They would say 'these are the cards we have been dealt, and we will negotiate with even those who we consider to be acting barbarically, because we have oppressed and now we must repent'.
They have done no such thing: each deal offers the same slap in the face for the same reason. Israel can not offer reparations and citizen status to 1948-67 Palestinian refugees because in one fell swoop it would delegitimize the seizure of land in 1948 (admitting that Palestinians were dislocated from their home, or at least that their homes were claimed upon their absence based on fear of Jewish invasion). In addition, it would utterly destroy Jewish superiority in the region (since an influx of - or voting rights being provided to upwards of 5.5 million Palestinian refugees would actually yield a similar voting Arab population as to Jewish population - plus the Arab growth rate of 2.2% is greater than the Jewish growth rate of 1.7%).
It's just human nature: people in power cling to their power. I believe Israel and Israelis are about to suffer in unimaginable ways, and they're going to learn that their isolationist stance does not lead to a sustainable future in the modern world. If they're lucky, they'll right wrongs after the BDS movement takes a tremendous toll on their economy. If they're unlucky, Bibi will refuse to change his ways, and the state will be in a constant position of war.
What Israelis said with their votes is that they are all in favour of the status quo, and they believe Netanyahu is the right person to ensure that it remains.
Stop it Ben, you're making to much sense my friend.
An article written by a Zionist, gee, I wonder which way this article is going to lean. Come on man, u can do better then that. Or not.
You do realize that the Palestinians need to negotiate with zionists don't you?
A just settlement cannot be reached if you ignore them. You are proving my point that Israel has no one to negotiate with.
do you honestly believe they wish to negotiate?
Yes. Israel knows that the status quo cannot continue.
If Israel wished to negotiate, they would recognize the long-standing and justifiable aggression and opposition to Israeli presence in what was once peaceful and secularly-driven land, and uphold the notions of nobility and justice through the democracy they so cling to. They would say 'these are the cards we have been dealt, and we will negotiate with even those who we consider to be acting barbarically, because we have oppressed and now we must repent'.
This "once peaceful and secularly-driven land" no longer exists. Again you are all just proving my point. If the attitude of current Israeli opposition is Israel "must negotiate with even those who we consider to be acting barbarically, because we have oppressed and now we must repent" then the status quo shall unfortunately continue. Substituting an Israeli oppressor for an Islamist one is effectively what your are advocating and this is not acceptable to any rational person. Again you must try to recognize reality. There is no cavalry coming to rescue Palestine. Israel's Arab neighbours now recognize Hamas as an enemy. There are no sanctions that will break Israel. Israel will not trade security for peace. Those are the facts on the ground whether you like it or not. You claim to care about the plight of the Palestinians but you only enable the extremists among them and prolong their struggle.
An article written by a Zionist, gee, I wonder which way this article is going to lean. Come on man, u can do better then that. Or not.
You do realize that the Palestinians need to negotiate with zionists don't you?
A just settlement cannot be reached if you ignore them. You are proving my point that Israel has no one to negotiate with.
do you honestly believe they wish to negotiate?
Yes. Israel knows that the status quo cannot continue.
If Israel wished to negotiate, they would recognize the long-standing and justifiable aggression and opposition to Israeli presence in what was once peaceful and secularly-driven land, and uphold the notions of nobility and justice through the democracy they so cling to. They would say 'these are the cards we have been dealt, and we will negotiate with even those who we consider to be acting barbarically, because we have oppressed and now we must repent'.
This "once peaceful and secularly-driven land" no longer exists. Again you are all just proving my point. If the attitude of current Israeli opposition is Israel "must negotiate with even those who we consider to be acting barbarically, because we have oppressed and now we must repent" then the status quo shall unfortunately continue. Substituting an Israeli oppressor for an Islamist one is effectively what your are advocating and this is not acceptable to any rational person. Again you must try to recognize reality. There is no cavalry coming to rescue Palestine. Israel's Arab neighbours now recognize Hamas as an enemy. There are no sanctions that will break Israel. Israel will not trade security for peace. Those are the facts on the ground whether you like it or not. You claim to care about the plight of the Palestinians but you only enable the extremists among them and prolong their struggle.
We shall see
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,347
An article written by a Zionist, gee, I wonder which way this article is going to lean. Come on man, u can do better then that. Or not.
You do realize that the Palestinians need to negotiate with zionists don't you?
A just settlement cannot be reached if you ignore them. You are proving my point that Israel has no one to negotiate with.
do you honestly believe they wish to negotiate?
Yes. Israel knows that the status quo cannot continue.
So lemme ask you then, have you questioned why those proposals were rejected throughout the years? If memory serves a major sticking point was surrounding the palestinian refugees STILL in camps to this day. PLO wanted right of return for them. Israel rejected out of hand. Is that really unreasonable for that right?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
It is time for some of you to join reality. Israel is not going away.
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/03/published-netanyahus-rewrote
mondoweiss and newsdiff making the NYT look like the pandering idiots they are, as per....can't just tell it like it is, eh?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/18/world/middleeast/israel-election-netanyahu-herzog.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31953207
The White House has condemned what it called "divisive rhetoric" in the Israeli election, won by Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party.
peace rests with israel. the bigges barrier to peace in the entire region is israel.
if israel does not work for peace, there is no peace. period. end of story. if israel wanted peace, and direct negotiations with the palestinians, they would stop building illegal settlements instead of expanding them.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I fucking hate your version of this reality, and couldn't disagree more. So, I've attached my version of reality below, as produced by the wise doctor (Seuss).
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/19/opinion/thomas-friedman-bibi-will-make-history.html?_r=1
Well, it’s pretty clear now: Benjamin Netanyahu is going to be a major figure in Israeli history — not because he’s heading to become the longest-serving Israeli prime minister, but because he’s heading to be the most impactful. Having won the Israeli elections — in part by declaring that he will never permit a two state-solution between Israelis and Palestinians — it means Netanyahu will be the father of the one-state solution. And the one-state solution means that Israel will become, in time, either a non-Jewish democracy or Jewish non-democracy.
Yes, sir, Bibi is going to make history. And the leader in the world who is most happy that Netanyahu ran on — and won on — a one-state solution is the Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Oh, my goodness. They must have been doing high-fives and “Allahu akbars” all night in the ruling circles of Tehran when they saw how low Bibi sank to win. What better way to isolate Israel globally and deflect attention from Iran’s behavior?
The biggest losers in all of this, besides all the Israelis who did not vote for Netanyahu, are American Jews and non-Jews who support Israel. What Bibi did to win this election was move the Likud Party from a center-right party to a far-right one. The additional votes he got were all grabbed from the other far-right parties — not from the center. When the official government of Israel is a far-right party that rejects a two-state solution and employs anti-Arab dog whistles to get elected, it will split the basic unity of the American Jewish community on Israel. How many American Jews want to defend a one-state solution in Washington or on their college campuses? Is Aipac, the Israel lobby, now going to push for a one-state solution on Capitol Hill? How many Democrats and Republicans would endorse that?
Warning: Real trouble ahead.
You cannot win that dirty and just walk away like nothing happened. In the days before Israelis went to the polls, Netanyahu was asked by the Israeli news site, NRG, if it was true that a Palestinian state would never be formed on his watch as prime minister, Netanyahu replied, “Indeed,” adding: “Anyone who is going to establish a Palestinian state, anyone who is going to evacuate territories today, is simply giving a base for attacks to the radical Islam against Israel.”
This makes null and void his speech in June 2009 at Bar Ilan University, where Netanyahu had laid out a different “vision of peace,” saying: “In this small land of ours, two peoples live freely, side by side, in amity and mutual respect. Each will have its own flag, its own national anthem, its own government. Neither will threaten the security or survival of the other.” Provided the Palestinian state recognizes Israel’s Jewish character and accepts demilitarization, he added, “We will be ready in a future peace agreement to reach a solution where a demilitarized Palestinian state exists alongside the Jewish state.”
Now, if there are not going to be two states for two peoples in the area between the Jordan River and Mediterranean, then there is going to be only one state — and that one state will either be a Jewish democracy that systematically denies the voting rights of about one-third of its people or it will be a democracy and systematically erodes the Jewish character of Israel.
Just look at the numbers: In 2014, the estimated Palestinian Arab population of the West Bank was 2.72 million, with roughly 40 percent under the age of 14. There are already 1.7 million Israeli Arabs citizens — who assembled all their parties together in the latest election onto one list and came in third. Together, the West Bankers and Israeli Arabs constitute 4.4 million people. There are 6.2 million Israeli Jews. According to statistics from the Jewish Virtual Library, the Jewish population of Israel grew by 1.7 percent over the past year, and the Arab population grew by 2.2 percent.
If there is only one state, Israel cannot be Jewish and permit West Bank Palestinians to exercise any voting rights alongside Israeli Arabs. But if Israel is one state and wants to be democratic, how does it continue depriving West Bankers of the vote — when you can be sure they will make it their No. 1 demand.
I doubt, in the heat of the campaign, Netanyahu gave any of this much thought when he tossed the two-state solution out the window of his campaign bus in a successful 11th-hour grab for far-right voters. To be sure, he could disavow his two-state disavowal tomorrow. It would not surprise me. He is that cynical. But, if he doesn’t — if the official platform of his new government is that there is no more two-state solution — it will produce both a hostile global reaction and, in time, a Palestinian move in the West Bank for voting rights in Israel, combined with an attempt to put Israel in the docket in the International Criminal Court. How far is the Obama administration going to go in defending Israel after it officially rejects a two-state solution? I don’t know. But we’ll be in a new world.
No one on the planet will enjoy watching Israel and America caught on the horns of this dilemma more than the clerical regime in Tehran. It is a godsend for them. Iran’s unstated position is that the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem must be perpetuated forever. Because few things serve Iran’s interests more than having radical Jewish settlers in a never-ending grinding conflict with Palestinians — and the more bloodshed and squashing of any two-state diplomatic options the better. Because, in that conflict, the Palestinians are almost always depicted as the underdogs and the Israelis as the bullies trying to deprive them of basic rights.
From Iran’s point of view, it makes fantastic TV on Al Jazeera, and all the European networks; it undermines Israel’s legitimacy with the young generation on college campuses around the globe; and it keeps the whole world much more focused on Israeli civil rights abuses against Palestinians rather than the massive civil rights abuses perpetrated by the Iranian regime against its own people.
It is stunning how much Bibi’s actions serve Tehran’s strategic interests.
And that is why I am certain that Benjamin Netanyahu is going to be a historic, very impactful prime minister in Jewish history. I just hope that — somehow — a Jewish democratic Israel survives his tenure.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Netanyahu 'still committed' to Palestinian statehood
In interview, Israel PM denies changing his stance on two-state solution during successful re-election bid.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/03/netanyahu-committed-palestinian-statehood-150319213444662.html
Anyone else picture bibi saying this?
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415690/no-peace-any-time-soon-not-because-bibi-charles-krauthammer
Who is Israel supposed to make a deal with?
A just settlement cannot be reached if you ignore them. You are proving my point that Israel has no one to negotiate with.
www.headstonesband.com
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6909536?utm_hp_ref=tw
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Israel chooses the path to apartheid
It was once possible to argue that Israel's policies were not the same as apartheid because their stated goal, however imperfectly pursued, was to end the occupation. After Netanyahu's reelection, this is no longer the case.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.648006
In my quarter century as Washington correspondent for Jewish newspapers, I frequently defended Israel against charges that it had created an apartheid system in the West Bank. But this week's election, with Benjamin Netanyahu poised to serve another term with an even more hardline coalition, means that apartheid is the path Israeli voters have chosen. The inevitable results will include even greater international isolation for the Jewish state, a boost to efforts to apply boycotts and sanctions, diminished support from American Jews and endlessly intensifying cycles of violence.
Since the Madrid peace process began in 1991, it was possible – though sometimes with great difficulty – to argue that Israel wanted to find some route to accommodation with the Palestinians. Sure, there were huge obstacles to overcome, not the least of which was a shortsighted Palestinian leadership and a volatile, nervous electorate in Israel.
But government after government at least said the right things about the need to create a Palestinian state and to make painful compromises, even if action lagged far behind the words.
It was possible to accept journalist Gershom Gorenberg's thesis that the occupation was an "accidental empire," its endurance shaped less by determined policies than by inertia and political cowardice. It was awful to watch even progressive governments cringe before an aggressive settlers movement, but it was understandable, especially for Americans accustomed to the timidity of our own leaders in the face of aggressive extremists.
The idea of apartheid suggests the intent to make separation and unequal treatment permanent, and in the past it was possible to argue that for all the expansion of settlements, Israel was still looking for ways to end the occupation.
No more.
Frightened by the last minute rise of the Zionist Union list in polls, Netanyahu unambiguously expressed what critics have long asserted was his core ideology: no Palestinian state. No territorial concessions. None. Period.
And Israel's voters returned him to office, in what was widely reported as a resounding victory.
He was returned to power despite his attempt to shore up support on his political right by coming to Washington and undermining the relationship with Israel's most critical ally, the United States, and by giving a huge boost to Republican efforts to make support for Israel a political wedge issue instead of the bipartisan cause it has always been.
He was returned to power despite the ugly attempt to scare voters with the specter of a big turnout of Israeli Arabs.
And he was returned to power after his crystal clear rejection of Palestinian statehood and the territorial compromise that most of the world believes is the only way to ensure a peaceful future for a democratic Jewish state. There were reports this week that Netanyahu was attempting to walk those comments back, but his credibility on the issue of Palestinian statehood, never strong, is nonexistent.
In the absence of any willingness to work toward a Palestinian state in the West Bank, the future is clear: continuing occupation with no effort to find a way to end it, accelerating settlement construction and a hardening of policies toward Palestinians in the West Bank.
In other words, apartheid.
Mainstream Jewish groups go ballistic when they hear the term because of what it implies: an official policy of unfairness so profound that a fractious world unites against it with sanctions, boycotts and a pariah label for the perpetrators.
Once, it was possible to argue that Israel's policies were not the same as apartheid because their stated goal, however imperfectly pursued, was to end the occupation. No more: Bibi's reelection makes it clear that Israeli voters, more clearly aware of Netanyahu's intent than ever, have chosen the apartheid path, and will now have to live with the consequences.
American Jewish groups, key players in the coalition against South African apartheid, will resort to verbal gymnastics to argue that it's not the same. Or they will simply use the convenient ploy of pointing out all the bad decisions made by Palestinian leaders over the years. When the inevitable violence erupts and when the Palestinians, left with no other options, renew their push to condemn Israel in international bodies, they will circle the wagons to defend a Jewish state they claim is unfairly treated by a hostile world. They will ratchet up efforts to stifle even moderate dissent in the Jewish world. They'll blame the deepening divisions in the Jewish community on J Street.
Or they will say the no-statehood pledge was just politics as usual in Israel's fractious democracy, as meaningless as most other campaign promises.
And nobody outside an increasingly narrow pro-Israel tent will buy it. Because apartheid is apartheid, and that's exactly what Israeli voters chose this week as a course for their nation.
James Besser was Washington correspondent for the New York Jewish Week and other Anglo-Jewish newspapers for 24 years before his retirement in 2011.
A Feb. 17, 2012 file photo showing a protest against Israel's separation barrier in the West Bank village of Bilin. Photo by AP
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
If Israel wished to negotiate, they would recognize the long-standing and justifiable aggression and opposition to Israeli presence in what was once peaceful and secularly-driven land, and uphold the notions of nobility and justice through the democracy they so cling to. They would say 'these are the cards we have been dealt, and we will negotiate with even those who we consider to be acting barbarically, because we have oppressed and now we must repent'.
They have done no such thing: each deal offers the same slap in the face for the same reason. Israel can not offer reparations and citizen status to 1948-67 Palestinian refugees because in one fell swoop it would delegitimize the seizure of land in 1948 (admitting that Palestinians were dislocated from their home, or at least that their homes were claimed upon their absence based on fear of Jewish invasion). In addition, it would utterly destroy Jewish superiority in the region (since an influx of - or voting rights being provided to upwards of 5.5 million Palestinian refugees would actually yield a similar voting Arab population as to Jewish population - plus the Arab growth rate of 2.2% is greater than the Jewish growth rate of 1.7%).
It's just human nature: people in power cling to their power. I believe Israel and Israelis are about to suffer in unimaginable ways, and they're going to learn that their isolationist stance does not lead to a sustainable future in the modern world. If they're lucky, they'll right wrongs after the BDS movement takes a tremendous toll on their economy. If they're unlucky, Bibi will refuse to change his ways, and the state will be in a constant position of war.
What Israelis said with their votes is that they are all in favour of the status quo, and they believe Netanyahu is the right person to ensure that it remains.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14