Yet another school shooting. Washington state

unsung

It may have reduced it. I don't have a crystal ball.

It's a better option than a sign and a "zone" that is ignored.

callen

Gun rights = gun deaths. Period.

So in US we've decided a few innocent humans being killed by guns is worth the right to own a gun.

Refusing to have guns registered giving government information makes it harder to hold humans accountable.

Simple as this.

callen

unsung said:

You want to fix this? See my previous. Stop addressing the symptoms with a complete waste of time. Liberals constantly try to social engineer children. It doesn't work. It needs to stop.

What was the solution? Training. Proper parenting?

Don't disagree this would help but barely. The ONLY way to solve gun deaths is to remove guns from society.

So we as a society choose to allow guns so we as a society must acknowledge we are okay with few innocents being shot. Stop being shocked at school shootings. This is our society.

And Further arming will not do ANYTHING. And Parents are going to continue to suck.

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

I seriously am starting to believe that coming to this place is hazardous to my mental health.

What law or lack thereof allows ownership of a handgun to a teenager? None.

So why are you wanting redundancy and more laws?

What background check would have stopped this act? None. What other law would have? None. How would registration stopped this act? It wouldn't.

You want to fix this? See my previous. Stop addressing the symptoms with a complete waste of time. Liberals constantly try to social engineer children. It doesn't work. It needs to stop.

At a minimum a gun should be locked up by the registered owner. That won't solve 100% of the issue but it would at least be a step toward prevention.

CM189191

unsung said:

I seriously am starting to believe that coming to this place is hazardous to my mental health.

Chicken/Egg?

All the parenting and training in the world has not, will not, and does not prevent. We see this over and over again. Good training, just makes them a better shot. Look at the DC Shooter a few years back, or that guy who's running around the forest in the NE (did they ever catch him?). Look at this kid, or a dozen others: "we never imagined it, he was such a good boy, liked by his friends, etc...".

We tried it your way. Your way doesn't work. Your way sucks. We're tired of sucking and expect better from ourselves.

Possible solutions:

You want to purchase a gun? Great, you can purchase a gun after a significant background check, waiting period.That includes background check for every gun purchase or transfer of possession, including between private citizens. No more gun show loophole.

You have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test. You also must take and pass a shooting class. Then, a mental test and drug test. All of which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups.

Provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. Police also inspect the gun annually. And you have to re-take the classes and exams every three years.

Even then, the number of guns purchased year will be severely limited. The types of guns you can purchase will be severely limited. You hunt? You get guns for hunting, that's it. No more easily concealed handguns. Reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban.

Your gun gets stolen and used in a crime? Congratulations, you are now an accessory to that crime and punishable under law.

The amount of ammo you can buy at a time will be limited. Ammo shells/casings will be stamped with ID#'s that can be traced back to the person who purchased that ammo. Your ammo gets used in a crime? Congratulations, you are now an accessory to that crime and punishable under law.

Smart guns - we have the technology, use it.

You need to conceal/carry - you better have a damn good reason. We're talking substantial threat - former lover with a restraining order type-stuff. Security guards who need one for work. Something better than: "I want to because I can".

I've posted this before and I'll post it again - this is how you handle gun ownership and reduce gun violence in a civilized society:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/?single_page=true

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

I seriously am starting to believe that coming to this place is hazardous to my mental health.

What law or lack thereof allows ownership of a handgun to a teenager? None.

So why are you wanting redundancy and more laws?

What background check would have stopped this act? None. What other law would have? None. How would registration stopped this act? It wouldn't.

You want to fix this? See my previous. Stop addressing the symptoms with a complete waste of time. Liberals constantly try to social engineer children. It doesn't work. It needs to stop.

Nobody wants redundancy and more laws as much as they want effective laws that have the potential to make a difference.

The status quo is brutal and obviously, most certainly, without question in dire need of reform.

I realize the weapon industry has instilled paranoia and fear into many people and because they are scared... the 'obviousness' of the situation has been lost on them.

chadwick

mickeyrat said:

chadwick said:

that isn't right, mickeyrat

so you dont think the owner of a weapon that's used in a crime such as this shouldnt be held accountable? If that kid was driving his parents car and plowed into a crowd wouldnt they bear some responsibility? Whats different?

a fucking kid steels his dad's car keys & car then plowed into a group of kids. a lot of kids know their mom or dad's debit card pin number. the kid steels the card, withdrawls $50, gives it to an older friend or whomever can buy alcohol, they get hammered & the kid drives killing everyone in a head on collision.

the parents should go to prison

chadwick

start teaching gun safety asap. put down the fucking xbox & the other stupid ass shit & join the real world called growing the hell up

chadwick

& yes unsung is correct. today kids more than ever are pampered & catered to. it's unreal how soft folks are. congratulations

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Kids cannot take zeroes for assignments not turned in and cannot lose marks for late submissions in our school district.

Everybody gets to be Einstein!

oftenreading

How many of you posting the series of comments above in this thread have a teenager in highschool? Because I do, and I don't find your assessment of high school expectations to be accurate.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

oftenreading said:

How many of you posting the series of comments above in this thread have a teenager in highschool? Because I do, and I don't find your assessment of high school expectations to be accurate.

So being a parent qualifies you as an expert?

Tell us exactly which assessments you find to be inaccurate so those that need to consider your claim as criticism may do so.

Last-12-Exit

oftenreading said:

How many of you posting the series of comments above in this thread have a teenager in highschool? Because I do, and I don't find your assessment of high school expectations to be accurate.

I have a teenager in 8th grade. What isn't accurate about today's youth being pampered and coddled?

oftenreading

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

How many of you posting the series of comments above in this thread have a teenager in highschool? Because I do, and I don't find your assessment of high school expectations to be accurate.

So being a parent qualifies you as an expert?

Tell us exactly which assessments you find to be inaccurate so those that need to consider your claim as criticism may do so.

Whoa, please don't put words into my mouth. I didn't claim to be an expert, I just asked if you had a child in high school, because it can be hard to know how the school system is actually working unless you have a kid in school. So for instance, the bit about not getting a zero for an assignment not turned in - in practice, how that works in our school system is NOT that a kid gets a mark that hasn't been earned; rather, the kid has to complete the assignment and get a mark. So the kid has to do it while in class, or stay after class to do it, or a similar arrangement. Since the goal is for the kids to actually do the assignments and learn something, not just for them to fail, quit school and be unable to get a job, I think its a positive thing that they have to do the assignment rather than just letting them choose not to.

CM189191

chadwick said:

& yes unsung is correct. today kids more than ever are pampered & catered to. it's unreal how soft folks are. congratulations

I was just reading about a High School where students watching 6 of their peers get gunned down in front of their eyes while the leaders in their community stood by and did nothing about it.

If that doesn't make a kid hard, I don't know what will....

oftenreading

"today kids more than ever are pampered & catered to. it's unreal how soft folks are. congratulations"
"Everybody gets to be Einstein!"

We are experiencing an outbreak of curmudgeonlyness on the board. Everyone please take appropriate precautions.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I have two kids in high school. I've taught high school for 20 years.

I take back the 'Einstein' comment (I didn't have a ton of time to explain what I meant by it... and it was a poor submission given what I wanted to say), but I offer the following so you might comprehend my perspective:

I understand the 'no-zero' policy very well in terms of what it is trying to do. I completely agree that kids who struggle should receive all the extra time and the support necessary to complete assignments provided they are using that time to do such. This is a no-brainer and teachers have been doing this for as long as I have been doing the job without strict policy that insists they do this (outside of a few poor examples of course).

These types of policies work very well for the students that genuinely need such time, but there has been a negative effect that plays out under such an umbrella:

In practice, the result has seen many kids meander their way through their studies with policies that permit a somewhat laissez-faire approach to school. Many kids opt to turn assignments in on their own time- playing X-Box or socializing- instead of completing work and meeting deadlines. As a result, many feel that many kids are no longer learning to be accountable for their actions.

Further, I feel many kids no longer deal with the invaluable lessons that can be learned from dealing with failure- not complete failure (as in an entire class)... but failure that resembles a botched assignment or two that often has the effect of motivating a kid to take things a little more seriously afterwards. When a kid struggles, but makes it through because of extra effort on their part... they begin to feel empowered (if we had more time... I'd relate my Atmospheric Geography class to you).

So... good intentions have brought about some undesirable effects. We could debate which side of the scale is heavier, but let's not (I'm sitting on the fence with the entire notion of the 'no zero' policy- intrigued... but hesitant).

fife

chadwick said:

start teaching gun safety asap. put down the fucking xbox & the other stupid ass shit & join the real world called growing the hell up

actually how about teaching problem solving skills and maybe teaching kids and adults that guns are not a way to solve a problem.

society will become much better when we start to understand that guns should not be the 1 or even 20 option when we look at solving a problem.

hedonist

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Further, I feel many kids no longer deal with the invaluable lessons that can be learned from dealing with failure- not complete failure (as in an entire class)... but failure that resembles a botched assignment or two that often has the effect of motivating a kid to take things a little more seriously afterwards. When a kid struggles, but makes it through because of extra effort on their part... they begin to feel empowered (if we had more time... I'd relate my Atmospheric Geography class to you).

Well-said! The onus is on student, teacher, and parent(s). The "everyone wins" mentality and practice of making it easy on the kids ultimately does them a disservice.

(See? I have no beef with teachers such as yourself - those who care, genuinely want the best for their students, and understand the importance of not always succeeding...using failures as stepping-stones toward that success and toward learning in general)

oftenreading

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I have two kids in high school. I've taught high school for 20 years.

I take back the 'Einstein' comment (I didn't have a ton of time to explain what I meant by it... and it was a poor submission given what I wanted to say), but I offer the following so you might comprehend my perspective:

I understand the 'no-zero' policy very well in terms of what it is trying to do. I completely agree that kids who struggle should receive all the extra time and the support necessary to complete assignments provided they are using that time to do such. This is a no-brainer and teachers have been doing this for as long as I have been doing the job without strict policy that insists they do this (outside of a few poor examples of course).

These types of policies work very well for the students that genuinely need such time, but there has been a negative effect that plays out under such an umbrella:

In practice, the result has seen many kids meander their way through their studies with policies that permit a somewhat laissez-faire approach to school. Many kids opt to turn assignments in on their own time- playing X-Box or socializing- instead of completing work and meeting deadlines. As a result, many feel that many kids are no longer learning to be accountable for their actions.

Further, I feel many kids no longer deal with the invaluable lessons that can be learned from dealing with failure- not complete failure (as in an entire class)... but failure that resembles a botched assignment or two that often has the effect of motivating a kid to take things a little more seriously afterwards. When a kid struggles, but makes it through because of extra effort on their part... they begin to feel empowered (if we had more time... I'd relate my Atmospheric Geography class to you).

So... good intentions have brought about some undesirable effects. We could debate which side of the scale is heavier, but let's not (I'm sitting on the fence with the entire notion of the 'no zero' policy- intrigued... but hesitant).

Thanks for your perspective, TBU. I agree with much of what you've said (and also the implication that our quick "sound bite" posts don't necessarily actually convey what we want to say; we are wary of longer posts that may turn people off). Failures for kids are important, as long as they are manageable and not catastrophic. I imagine it could be difficult as a teacher to figure out which kid can be motivated by a particular failure, and which will be demoralized.

Would love to hear about the Atmospheric Geography class, if you care to expand.