I was reading on nytimes.com and under the headline the first sentence said "a gunman is dead after opening fire....." It doesn't seem right to call this kid a gunman. It was a child. A 14 year old. Yes, I know what be did was deplorable and unexplainable. He is a murderer. I was just taken by surprise by the terminology I guess. When you think of a gunman, a 14 year old doesn't come to mind.
Edit: I'm not defending this kid at all. Like I said, he's a murderer. It's just the times we live in.
so you dont think the owner of a weapon that's used in a crime such as this shouldnt be held accountable? If that kid was driving his parents car and plowed into a crowd wouldnt they bear some responsibility? Whats different?
Is that true? If my daughter was driving my car and plowed into somebody and killed them, I could be legally accountable? I know financially, my insurance would pay, but I could get charged with a crime?
No. Not if your kid had a driver's license and you didn't get her drunk before lending her your car.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Haven't read what has happened, but brutal for certain.
Why? The President doesn't.
Sorry if I prefer to protect our children with trained and armed personal instead of a sign with some words on it that has never stopped a bad guy.
Truth hurts. Gun free zones kill.
Yes, let's institutionalize the school even more like prisons than they already are. Armed guards, uniforms, locked doors, RFIDs. Sounds like a great environment for learning. Sounds a lot more like North Korea than North America.
Seriously? Common Core essentially turned schools into indoctrination centers.
Ok I'll play along. What law would have stopped this?
He broke how many laws today? One more wont do anything.
* Hand guns restricted to those who qualify after courses and stringent background checks.
* Ammunition for handguns sold only to those with valid permits.
* Carry permits for those who require one because of their occupations and those who need one for the protection of life (armoured car guards or people threatened by wild animals while working in a remote wilderness area).
Couple these laws with a solid buy back program.
Short term: no significant result. Long term: significant results.
Sorry... no band aid quick fix for this deep pit you have dug yourselves into.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
None of which would have stopped today's incident.
Haven't read what has happened, but brutal for certain.
Why? The President doesn't.
Sorry if I prefer to protect our children with trained and armed personal instead of a sign with some words on it that has never stopped a bad guy.
Truth hurts. Gun free zones kill.
Yes, let's institutionalize the school even more like prisons than they already are. Armed guards, uniforms, locked doors, RFIDs. Sounds like a great environment for learning. Sounds a lot more like North Korea than North America.
Seriously? Common Core essentially turned schools into indoctrination centers.
You might as well guard them.
Good lord it's always hyperbole. Common core equals indoctrination? Care to explain? Indoctrination to what? Let me guess, it's a conspiracy to make children statists.
None of which would have stopped today's incident.
Agreed. But they would stand the chance to stop the one that's brewing under perfect conditions 5-10-15-20 years from now when the well has dried up consideringly.
None of which would have stopped today's incident.
How do we know this? We have nothing but speculation as to what led to today's incident. Unless there has been much more information released since I last checked, we have no idea where this shooter got the gun, who legally owned it, or anything else needed to make this statement with confidence.
You might be right, but you also might not.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I've heard multiple (albeit unverified) reports that it was his father's handgun.
What the hell propels a person so young, who seemingly was "ok and happy and popular" etc do something like this?
I just can't get my head around it, to break in such a way.
Maybe high? Other shit going on behind the scenes?
I heard a student being interviewed on the local news say that he was a happy go lucky kid with many friends but had some problems with a few other students bullying him over racial issues in the weeks prior which led to a fist fight at that time. Gun control is so important like many have stated on this thread but one thing being overlooked is bullying. Teach your children to be exceptant of other people and we can make some real progress. You don't have to agree with everybody all the time, just don't be an asshole to those who are different and if they aren't hurting anyone then leave them be. In a world hell bent on Facebook and social media the term "everyone's a critic" is truer than ever and probably with less entitlement to those criticisms at the same time. Turn the tv off, go outside, take care of one another and if someone doesn't like you then oh well. I can only imagine the stigma kids going to school now days must have with everyone posting, tagging, tweeting, etc.... Just remember before you judge someone in a negative way that you never know what is going on in their life.
I'm not defending this kid in anyway either. He is a murder but I can't help but think this could have all been avoided, even if he suffered from mental problems. I'm just trying to make the point that there is something very very wrong with what our society finds important and places value in regarding the mainstream and pop culture. We should all help each other and if you see people abusing others have the courage to offer help.
I'm here to learn and always open to constructive criticism. If I said anything out of line please let me know. I never intend on offending anyone.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Thoughtful post, Astro, and not offensive to me at all.
I heard a few things about bullying but it seems a bit out of line with other so-called details that've come out. All I can do is speculate at this point.
I think you nailed it with "take care of one another and if someone doesn't like you then oh well". We don't all HAVE to be liked; in fact, if disliked in a non-aggressive/non-violent manner, it can build resilience, insight, even self-confidence.
The obsession with social media - ie, image - seems pretty over the top these days. But, I don't see it diminishing anytime soon.
I heard a student being interviewed on the local news say that he was a happy go lucky kid with many friends but had some problems with a few other students bullying him over racial issues in the weeks prior which led to a fist fight at that time. Gun control is so important like many have stated on this thread but one thing being overlooked is bullying. Teach your children to be exceptant of other people and we can make some real progress. You don't have to agree with everybody all the time, just don't be an asshole to those who are different and if they aren't hurting anyone then leave them be. In a world hell bent on Facebook and social media the term "everyone's a critic" is truer than ever and probably with less entitlement to those criticisms at the same time. Turn the tv off, go outside, take care of one another and if someone doesn't like you then oh well. I can only imagine the stigma kids going to school now days must have with everyone posting, tagging, tweeting, etc.... Just remember before you judge someone in a negative way that you never know what is going on in their life.
I'm not defending this kid in anyway either. He is a murder but I can't help but think this could have all been avoided, even if he suffered from mental problems. I'm just trying to make the point that there is something very very wrong with what our society finds important and places value in regarding the mainstream and pop culture. We should all help each other and if you see people abusing others have the courage to offer help.
I'm here to learn and always open to constructive criticism. If I said anything out of line please let me know. I never intend on offending anyone.
If it turns out it was his parents gun I believe they should be charged with involuntary manslaughter. There should be some kind of accountability for shitty gun owners.
It appears too many Americans are afraid of their own self induced imaginary boogie men. I don't see the guns going anywhere but we could create technology that picks up on them from afar, alerts the police or possibly even locks all the doors of the school so no one can enter. Seems like a task Mr Bill Gates and his team could easily accomplish with a little effort. Might seem like a far out idea but its very possible....people just have to ask for it. I'm not sure how its done but doesn't Washington D.C. have the capability to detect certain bomb materials in the area to prevent an attack? It would appear that our politician and national monuments are worth it. Why not take it to the next step and detect fire arms to protect our children at school?
If we had anything that could detect a gun within a 3 mile radius of a school the police could receive adequate warning. I don't know what I'm talking about. Just dreaming but crazier things have been accomplished and its going to take some ingenuity to combat such a difficult and growing problem. We can blast rockets into space successfully, multiple times a year, by companies like SpaceX but we cant tell if someone is walking up to a building full of hundreds of our own children with a gun in tow.
I do believe, like many here, anyone who owns a gun should be responsible for anything bullets fired from that gun come in contact with.
I do hope Eddie, Stone, Matt, Mike and Jeff find time to reach out to the families of the victims at some point. We should all make sure the family of the young girl that left this world today have adequate funds to lay her to rest without worrying about the expense. Maybe we can start a fund raiser? Anyone with me? and how? gofundme dot com?
I was actually working in Marysville today when it happened. The gentlemen who's house I was working at came down stairs to ask me if I had heard what happened and I couldn't believe it. My co-workers daughter was in the cafeteria when it happened. I was pretty worried for them seeing how he couldn't get a hold of her on the phone but thankfully she was ok and managed to escape. The school district sent out a massive text alert to parents with children enrolled in school in the area. I have a 3 month old, my first one and it really does change you in ways you can't explain. I guess one way to explain it is your heart grows about 100x bigger. I can't imagine what the parents are going through and I hope they find peace with all this one day.
Thanks hedonist and Thirty Bills Unpaid. Glad to be here and good to meet you, digitally that is.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Backatcha, Astro. Some fine people here, and I've decided I won't follow up with the old "despite our differences" business. Figure it's implied on my part by now!
I didn't realize your proximity to this. Especially with a new life in your life, it's gotta hit deep. The good thoughts and sense of "the fuck?" are there in full force from here, a couple of states down.
This really small part of Washington has been hit hard a couple times this year.
Mudslide last spring and now this.
I hate reading of these things, but in all seriousness... this 'national tragedy' was just the next in line. Speaking from Canada... this is becoming the norm in your country in the event you haven't figured that out yet.
I am sick to death hearing about these shootings... its like *yawn* yeah another shooting who cares.. no one seems to give a shit.... to be willing to do anything.... no one has the balls to do anything... when people have the attitude that theyd rather accept the death of innocents than change the laws that may prevent such deaths then I have no sympathy for such a society
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
This really small part of Washington has been hit hard a couple times this year.
Mudslide last spring and now this.
I hate reading of these things, but in all seriousness... this 'national tragedy' was just the next in line. Speaking from Canada... this is becoming the norm in your country in the event you haven't figured that out yet.
Yes it has been figured out, that's why the title of the thread is yet another school shooting.
That's why this thread will probably top page 4 or 5. The shock value is pretty much gone. It isn't a matter of "oh my god, how could somebody..." Its more along the lines of how many did he kill and how was he abused. And I'm glad it wasn't my kids school.
You're right thirty, this has become way to normal. From Columbine to Sandy hook to this school in Washington. Thank the Lord it wasn't at my kids school.
It appears too many Americans are afraid of their own self induced imaginary boogie men. I don't see the guns going anywhere but we could create technology that picks up on them from afar, alerts the police or possibly even locks all the doors of the school so no one can enter. Seems like a task Mr Bill Gates and his team could easily accomplish with a little effort. Might seem like a far out idea but its very possible....people just have to ask for it. I'm not sure how its done but doesn't Washington D.C. have the capability to detect certain bomb materials in the area to prevent an attack? It would appear that our politician and national monuments are worth it. Why not take it to the next step and detect fire arms to protect our children at school?
If we had anything that could detect a gun within a 3 mile radius of a school the police could receive adequate warning. I don't know what I'm talking about. Just dreaming but crazier things have been accomplished and its going to take some ingenuity to combat such a difficult and growing problem. We can blast rockets into space successfully, multiple times a year, by companies like SpaceX but we cant tell if someone is walking up to a building full of hundreds of our own children with a gun in tow.
I do believe, like many here, anyone who owns a gun should be responsible for anything bullets fired from that gun come in contact with.
I do hope Eddie, Stone, Matt, Mike and Jeff find time to reach out to the families of the victims at some point. We should all make sure the family of the young girl that left this world today have adequate funds to lay her to rest without worrying about the expense. Maybe we can start a fund raiser? Anyone with me? and how? gofundme dot com?
I was actually working in Marysville today when it happened. The gentlemen who's house I was working at came down stairs to ask me if I had heard what happened and I couldn't believe it. My co-workers daughter was in the cafeteria when it happened. I was pretty worried for them seeing how he couldn't get a hold of her on the phone but thankfully she was ok and managed to escape. The school district sent out a massive text alert to parents with children enrolled in school in the area. I have a 3 month old, my first one and it really does change you in ways you can't explain. I guess one way to explain it is your heart grows about 100x bigger. I can't imagine what the parents are going through and I hope they find peace with all this one day.
Thanks hedonist and Thirty Bills Unpaid. Glad to be here and good to meet you, digitally that is.
A better solution would be to target the guns themselves. It has been suggested before that guns should be fingerprint locked, so that it can only be used by the person who purchased it. Buyback all models produced after a certain date...say 1980, and *GASP!* register those with antique and vintage. Cars must be registered. Cars must have safety features. Why? Because they are deadly. Can anyone here think of a reason why this doesn't make sense? It doesn't violate the second amendment.
None of which would have stopped today's incident.
It isn't that we need laws to stop crime...that's impossible.
In this case we could point to "why did the student have access to the gun?" Everyone wants to call themselves a responsible gun owner and somehow the majority of these cases trace back to irresponsible gun ownership. If the public as a whole can't be responsible why should the public as a whole be forced to deal with it by ignoring it?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
None of which would have stopped today's incident.
It isn't that we need laws to stop crime...that's impossible.
In this case we could point to "why did the student have access to the gun?" Everyone wants to call themselves a responsible gun owner and somehow the majority of these cases trace back to irresponsible gun ownership. If the public as a whole can't be responsible why should the public as a whole be forced to deal with it by ignoring it?
Yes.
Every 'responsible gun owner' is only responsible to the point where they become 'irresponsible'.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Maybe he stole it? I am guessing that's the case. Sure I'll concede that it probably should have been locked up. Fine.
But stop relying on signs to protect people. Train people to protect kids.
None of which would have stopped today's incident.
Unsung... I had responded to this with the following: Agreed. But they would stand the chance to stop the one that's brewing under perfect conditions 5-10-15-20 years from now when the well has dried up considerably.
Comments
You're right, keep relying on signs and laws that criminals ignore.
Edit: I'm not defending this kid at all. Like I said, he's a murderer. It's just the times we live in.
I'm just saying there is a better way that you can't seem to (or choose not to) comprehend.
He broke how many laws today? One more wont do anything.
Seriously? Common Core essentially turned schools into indoctrination centers.
You might as well guard them.
* Ammunition for handguns sold only to those with valid permits.
* Carry permits for those who require one because of their occupations and those who need one for the protection of life (armoured car guards or people threatened by wild animals while working in a remote wilderness area).
Couple these laws with a solid buy back program.
Short term: no significant result.
Long term: significant results.
Sorry... no band aid quick fix for this deep pit you have dug yourselves into.
Seriously? Common Core essentially turned schools into indoctrination centers.
You might as well guard them.
Good lord it's always hyperbole. Common core equals indoctrination? Care to explain? Indoctrination to what? Let me guess, it's a conspiracy to make children statists.
You might be right, but you also might not.
What the hell propels a person so young, who seemingly was "ok and happy and popular" etc do something like this?
I just can't get my head around it, to break in such a way.
Maybe high? Other shit going on behind the scenes?
I'm not defending this kid in anyway either. He is a murder but I can't help but think this could have all been avoided, even if he suffered from mental problems. I'm just trying to make the point that there is something very very wrong with what our society finds important and places value in regarding the mainstream and pop culture. We should all help each other and if you see people abusing others have the courage to offer help.
I'm here to learn and always open to constructive criticism. If I said anything out of line please let me know. I never intend on offending anyone.
I heard a few things about bullying but it seems a bit out of line with other so-called details that've come out. All I can do is speculate at this point.
I think you nailed it with "take care of one another and if someone doesn't like you then oh well". We don't all HAVE to be liked; in fact, if disliked in a non-aggressive/non-violent manner, it can build resilience, insight, even self-confidence.
The obsession with social media - ie, image - seems pretty over the top these days. But, I don't see it diminishing anytime soon.
Welcome.
If we had anything that could detect a gun within a 3 mile radius of a school the police could receive adequate warning. I don't know what I'm talking about. Just dreaming but crazier things have been accomplished and its going to take some ingenuity to combat such a difficult and growing problem. We can blast rockets into space successfully, multiple times a year, by companies like SpaceX but we cant tell if someone is walking up to a building full of hundreds of our own children with a gun in tow.
I do believe, like many here, anyone who owns a gun should be responsible for anything bullets fired from that gun come in contact with.
I do hope Eddie, Stone, Matt, Mike and Jeff find time to reach out to the families of the victims at some point. We should all make sure the family of the young girl that left this world today have adequate funds to lay her to rest without worrying about the expense. Maybe we can start a fund raiser? Anyone with me? and how? gofundme dot com?
I was actually working in Marysville today when it happened. The gentlemen who's house I was working at came down stairs to ask me if I had heard what happened and I couldn't believe it. My co-workers daughter was in the cafeteria when it happened. I was pretty worried for them seeing how he couldn't get a hold of her on the phone but thankfully she was ok and managed to escape. The school district sent out a massive text alert to parents with children enrolled in school in the area. I have a 3 month old, my first one
Thanks hedonist and Thirty Bills Unpaid. Glad to be here and good to meet you, digitally that is.
I didn't realize your proximity to this. Especially with a new life in your life, it's gotta hit deep. The good thoughts and sense of "the fuck?" are there in full force from here, a couple of states down.
Mudslide last spring and now this.
I hate reading of these things, but in all seriousness... this 'national tragedy' was just the next in line. Speaking from Canada... this is becoming the norm in your country in the event you haven't figured that out yet.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's why this thread will probably top page 4 or 5. The shock value is pretty much gone. It isn't a matter of "oh my god, how could somebody..." Its more along the lines of how many did he kill and how was he abused. And I'm glad it wasn't my kids school.
You're right thirty, this has become way to normal. From Columbine to Sandy hook to this school in Washington. Thank the Lord it wasn't at my kids school.
Can anyone here think of a reason why this doesn't make sense? It doesn't violate the second amendment.
In this case we could point to "why did the student have access to the gun?" Everyone wants to call themselves a responsible gun owner and somehow the majority of these cases trace back to irresponsible gun ownership. If the public as a whole can't be responsible why should the public as a whole be forced to deal with it by ignoring it?
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Every 'responsible gun owner' is only responsible to the point where they become 'irresponsible'.
But stop relying on signs to protect people. Train people to protect kids.
Now we're talking.
Yes it should have been locked up. But how do you enforce that? A law requiring that handguns be locked up would't stop something like this.
An armed guard or armed teacher wouldn't have stopped this.
The real solution is to outlaw private ownership of handguns....that won't happen
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Would you refute this?