i'm trying to wrap my mind around how buying enough $2 stickers to trade for other $2 stickers is flipping. how else do you complete a sticker set from shows you didn't attend?
+1 I'm trading with PJ fans sticker for sticker. Not selling for $20. I think it's OK.
What is the difference between:
1) Selling sticker for $10 on Ebay and then buying a $10 sticker off Ebay (what is clearly seen as flipping) 2) Trading a $2 sticker for a sticker worth $10 (a harmless trade)
The result is the same in either scenario. One is seen as flipping, and one is not. I understand trading though is acceptable, but just trying to articulate why some see (excessive) trading as flipping. Someone is trying to buy a bunch of stickers at $2 a piece that have a "street value" of $10 so they don't have to spend $10 to get another one on Ebay.
I don't think anyone has problems with traders, it is the excessive trading (which any review of my ISO threads in Lost Dogs will surely implicate me as guilty) that is angering people because you are going beyond trying to help a few friends or complete the collection to amasssing an arsenal of stickers that prevents others that are going to the shows the opportunity to buy stickers (even if they arrive several hours early). I shouldn't need "help" to get stickers to shows I am attending.
why would anyone trade for a show they were at? and as long as the other trader is trading a sticker they paid $2, what's the difference? how is that flipping?
In #1 you are selling a sticker from one show to get cash to buy a sticker from another show, which is the same result as number 2 where you just trade a sticker from one show for the sticker from the other show.
I am not saying trading equals flipping but trying to illustrate why people see it that way. For most trades the person with the sticker isn't going to trade it for your $2 cash, they are only going to trade for your sticker worth $10 in my example. Look at the fair market value of the items being traded and compare that to the cost. If the cost is less than fair market value in essence you were able buy something for cheap and convert it into something more expensive.
It is the same theory where the 10c won't let you trade GA tickets for an expensive vinyl. You are turning an asset you paid $162 for into a vinyl worth $400, essentially flipping your GA tickets. It is the same thing as if you sold the tickets for $400 on EBay and used that cash to buy the vinyl for $400.
and my reality is that i am trading a $2 sticker for another $2 sticker... nothing sold or bought. nor am i trading a 2014 sticker for a 1994 sticker. so you're trying to say the person i'm trading with might be the flipper?
All I am saying is that if you bought a sticker for $2 solely to trade a few days later, and traded it for another sticker that if you were to pay cash for on EBay or in Lost Dogs would cost $10, you essentially have an $8 gain on the trade. I don't think it qualifies as flipping, but it certainly fits one of the things that people hate about flipping: paying less for a limited item that you have no intention of keeping and preventing someone who does want it from buying just so you can use it as trade bait. Clearly you wouldn't buy it for $2 if you thought $2 was enough to buy the sticker you really wanted.
I understand your point and certainly there are two ways to look at it. You are looking at cost and I am looking at current value.
I think this is a valid point. Not to say sticker collectors are doing anything shady (they're not) but we all know that those little sticky things have a value amongst collectors well above $2. Last year I got shut out on stickers at Brooklyn 2, bought 5 stickers at each of the Philly shows, and bought 10 in Baltimore to cover people who requested me ahead of time. I was able to collect the entire US tour with those stickers through trades. But I do believe a limit would be fair to everyone. Somewhere in the range of 5 to 10.
But more than anything they need a limit to prevent people from buying 50 stickers at a clip.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
I have to admit, I only read the comments that are 5-10 lines long so I might have missed a lot.
Yes limit purchases, because hording is bullshit and obviously people can't control themselves, just like with the posters. Like someone can't legitimately need more than 10-15 of the same sticker can they?
But in the end, will be very tough to enforce when stadium staff are working the merch booths.
i don't collect stickers, but buying a few extra stickers for trading is not flipping to me, in fact it's part of the fun of collecting and trading.
We talkin' 'bout stickers man. Not the music. Not the music that's so important to us. We talkin' 'bout stickers.
Right on!
Question / clarification to everyone else: If you are buying stickers to trade with other people, doesn't this inherently limit the quantity available for those wanting to purchase at the venue for sentimental reasons? Also, in this situation, aren't you simply buying something to achieve personal gain such as "completing a set"? Isn't this "flipping"?
I see nothing wrong with sticker trades so that collectors can have complete sets. But that would be possible with a max sticker limit of however many shows there are on a tour, right?
I find this thread to be a bit weird because even as a collector the stickers aren't something that have peaked my interest. As a collector i can respect finding something interesting and collecting it, but in this case I find myself on the outside looking in. Thus I think my view is outside my normal view on things PJ related. I imagine missing out on a sticker is like me missing out on a poster for a show I attended. Consider the viewpoint on the other side of the transaction:
Can you imagine being one of the venue employees who is in charge of running the merch booths and reading a memo that says you have to limit people to a certain amount of stickers. First of all your probably not going to understand why grown adults want that many stickers, and secondly why it's important enough to limit purchases. When you're paid a low hourly wage and your job is to work through a large lineup of people in a chaotic atmosphere are you really going to bother enforcing the rules you got on a memo you might not have bothered to read.
When it comes down to it, the stickers are way more important to you, than the guy selling them to you. I don't think a memo/rule is going to help, because the guy selling them doesn't give a crap.
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,552
edited October 2014
You're always going to have employees that can't follow instructions. I still think it's worth the ten club's time to make a limit that hopefully the majority of venue employees will adhere to.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
I hope you all get your way. Set your limit because YOU think it's fair, the right thing to do, whatever your excuses. Didn't work with the posters, won't work with the stickers.
Scott A. Setser
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,552
I think in a perfect world it would be nice if I could buy my ten stickers to trade to finish my set and every non sticker collecting fan who just wants one as memento can get theirs too. I don't know if that can happen if people are buying dozens to sell on eBay or trade with people around the world.
There is also a part of me that feels the first priority for stickers should go to the people attending the show and not a fan 1000 miles away who needs one just for the sake of being a completist. So I'm fine with a sticker limit if the ten club chooses to go that route even if it's going to make it tough for me to get stickers for shows I haven't attended.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
I hope you all get your way. Set your limit because YOU think it's fair, the right thing to do, whatever your excuses. Didn't work with the posters, won't work with the stickers.
Think Pearl Jam Co / TSURT have been reading this thread & taking notes? That starting tomorrow in Tulsa, OK and on wards, they will let their helpers know that it's a 10 sticker limit per customer rule? Cause things have been pretty intense.
Sorry I'm kind of slow. Someone reported from the line today in Lincoln (via fakebook) that they were limiting stickers and pins to 10 each per person.
I don't think they did that in Tulsa because someone had bought 20 stickers in one transaction.
I think a 10 limit is better than no limit. But I wouldn't call it ideal. Here's hoping everyone in Lincoln who wants stickers has the opportunity to buy them.
I think 10 is fine. Gives you a few (I would typically like multiples, one for sticking, one to keep, and I also include stickers when I mail things... Then if you want to trade a few for other stickers thats cool.
I've never bought more than ten at a time. I don't blame them for choosing that to be the limit, it seems reasonable. But if you start thinking about lit a little bit further, there's 12 shows on this tour. If you are a collector who is only going to one show, and you only get ten, you won't have enough to trade for the rest of the shows, even if you trade 1 for 1. I'd just get in line again, personally, but I can understand thinking that ten might be too small of a limit.
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But more than anything they need a limit to prevent people from buying 50 stickers at a clip.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Yes limit purchases, because hording is bullshit and obviously people can't control themselves, just like with the posters. Like someone can't legitimately need more than 10-15 of the same sticker can they?
But in the end, will be very tough to enforce when stadium staff are working the merch booths.
i don't collect stickers, but buying a few extra stickers for trading is not flipping to me, in fact it's part of the fun of collecting and trading.
Question / clarification to everyone else: If you are buying stickers to trade with other people, doesn't this inherently limit the quantity available for those wanting to purchase at the venue for sentimental reasons? Also, in this situation, aren't you simply buying something to achieve personal gain such as "completing a set"? Isn't this "flipping"?
Can you imagine being one of the venue employees who is in charge of running the merch booths and reading a memo that says you have to limit people to a certain amount of stickers. First of all your probably not going to understand why grown adults want that many stickers, and secondly why it's important enough to limit purchases. When you're paid a low hourly wage and your job is to work through a large lineup of people in a chaotic atmosphere are you really going to bother enforcing the rules you got on a memo you might not have bothered to read.
When it comes down to it, the stickers are way more important to you, than the guy selling them to you. I don't think a memo/rule is going to help, because the guy selling them doesn't give a crap.
- Al Swearengen
http://www.cantstoptheserenity.com
There is also a part of me that feels the first priority for stickers should go to the people attending the show and not a fan 1000 miles away who needs one just for the sake of being a completist. So I'm fine with a sticker limit if the ten club chooses to go that route even if it's going to make it tough for me to get stickers for shows I haven't attended.
I hope they will set up a limit.
PJ sticker collecting is totally inappropriate. Its lewd, vesivius, salacious, outrageous!
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2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
I don't think they did that in Tulsa because someone had bought 20 stickers in one transaction.
I think a 10 limit is better than no limit. But I wouldn't call it ideal. Here's hoping everyone in Lincoln who wants stickers has the opportunity to buy them.
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Guess you'll have to wait til the last show to bust that out...
I still support the limit, to be clear. 1000000%
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