Imaginary threat
Comments
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Well luckily we have states where people can choose to live. Some states have heavy gun restrictions and others have very few restrictions. Obviously people here are strongly on one side or the other and there seems to be a place within America that can accommodate what you are most comfortable. If you dont want any civilians around you carrying a loaded gun, Illinois and California are accommodating. Just dont go to south Chicago or Compton, CA. because "for the most part" people dont have guns.......except the criminals and gang bangers. If you want to carry a gun and dont mind your peers carrying as well, there are states like Texas and Indiana where the laws on guns are not as strict. And yes you still have your bad areas with bad people, but at least you can defend yourself in those states. And yet again YES, the risk may go up that an inadvertent accident may happen with a firearms in those states but I personally would rather have that risk instead of being a victim with no defense.0
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Very true! I don't think anyone here would dispute the fact that carrying guns can bring both good and bad, what we disagree upon is whether the good outweighs the bad, or vice versa. For me, I would happily accept my inevitable demise at the hands of a "knife wielding fuck tard" because I feel that the bad (i.e. the greater probability of encountering a "gun wielding fuck tard") would outweigh the good (i.e. the holder of a firearm frightening the "fuck tard" into submission or retreat, or simply killing said "fuck tard" which is only debatable in terms of whether this is actually a "good" thing). For something like firearms, there's such a wide gamut of applications, and I guess what we should really be looking at is what percentage of situations the prevalent arguments for or against gun regulations fall under those categories... In other words, attempting to quantify the good:bad ratio when it comes to gun dissemination in non-military applications.rr165892 said:
Ben you can twist this to meet every point of view.If you are victim of a crime at the hands of a knife wielding fuck tard and a good citizen who happens to be carrying a hand gun come comes to your aid by scaring away or confronting the attacker,you could say it has affected your safety but for the better.benjs said:
I suppose the difference is that your swimming doesn't affect my safety. Your carrying a gun, however, does. And again, there is evidence to that effect that shows a very clear linear relationship between number of guns within a population and number of gun related fatalities within the population.ejleonjr said:
Maybe I am missing something. But thats like saying swimming in water increases the likelihood of drowning, while someone else says that swimming is exercise and increases the likelihood of good health.rgambs said:
The data that shows a correlation between gun ownership and likelihood of gun victimization is evident in those same newspaper articles. You are only proving the point.ejleonjr said:
Yes refer to your local newspaper, national newspaper, or world news. Anyone who has been robbed or a victim of a crime who did not have a concealed weapon. If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Most people don't have the luxury to uproot their home, leave their friends, family and jobs to move to another state. People who live on the Southside of Chicago our commotion certainly don't.ejleonjr said:Well luckily we have states where people can choose to live. Some states have heavy gun restrictions and others have very few restrictions. Obviously people here are strongly on one side or the other and there seems to be a place within America that can accommodate what you are most comfortable. If you dont want any civilians around you carrying a loaded gun, Illinois and California are accommodating. Just dont go to south Chicago or Compton, CA. because "for the most part" people dont have guns.......except the criminals and gang bangers. If you want to carry a gun and dont mind your peers carrying as well, there are states like Texas and Indiana where the laws on guns are not as strict. And yes you still have your bad areas with bad people, but at least you can defend yourself in those states. And yet again YES, the risk may go up that an inadvertent accident may happen with a firearms in those states but I personally would rather have that risk instead of being a victim with no defense.
Perhaps it would make more sense for the NRA to offer gun courses and open shooting ranges in these areas? You could even volunteer to teach class!
By your logic, Chicago's Southside should be virtually crime free, given the wide spread prevalence of gun ownership.0 -
if a knive wielding idiot comes out of nowhere slashing & stabbing you & you two are wrestling around as you fight for your life you will be grateful someone comes along with a firearm & the nutjob w/ the knife may die. yes this is a good thingfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
but what if the guy w/ the knife is the good guy trying to kill hannibal lector as they wrestle around on the ground, who's the good guy? fuck so confusing! im throwing my gun in the trash can & finding someone w/ a phone to call 911for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
This is a worry, glad we dont have many over here.0
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where is over here?for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
The NRA does offer firearm courses and has links to ranges in your immediate area.CM189191 said:
Most people don't have the luxury to uproot their home, leave their friends, family and jobs to move to another state. People who live on the Southside of Chicago our commotion certainly don't.ejleonjr said:Well luckily we have states where people can choose to live. Some states have heavy gun restrictions and others have very few restrictions. Obviously people here are strongly on one side or the other and there seems to be a place within America that can accommodate what you are most comfortable. If you dont want any civilians around you carrying a loaded gun, Illinois and California are accommodating. Just dont go to south Chicago or Compton, CA. because "for the most part" people dont have guns.......except the criminals and gang bangers. If you want to carry a gun and dont mind your peers carrying as well, there are states like Texas and Indiana where the laws on guns are not as strict. And yes you still have your bad areas with bad people, but at least you can defend yourself in those states. And yet again YES, the risk may go up that an inadvertent accident may happen with a firearms in those states but I personally would rather have that risk instead of being a victim with no defense.
Perhaps it would make more sense for the NRA to offer gun courses and open shooting ranges in these areas? You could even volunteer to teach class!
By your logic, Chicago's Southside should be virtually crime free, given the wide spread prevalence of gun ownership.
Although I have a military and law enforcement history and am familiar with firearms, I do not think that alone would qualify me to teach a class. Give tips and and personal advise..yes. Be an instructor..no
Its not my logic that Chicago's Southside should be safe and crime free, its the governments. They impose gun free zones and pass legislation that govern firearms. My logic is not to arm criminals, drug dealers, and gang bangers but to arm those in the community that abide by laws so that they will not be victims.0 -
Odds. I'll go with odds. No gun less likely to be shot.rr165892 said:
Ben you can twist this to meet every point of view.If you are victim of a crime at the hands of a knife wielding fuck tard and a good citizen who happens to be carrying a hand gun come comes to your aid by scaring away or confronting the attacker,you could say it has affected your safety but for the better.benjs said:
I suppose the difference is that your swimming doesn't affect my safety. Your carrying a gun, however, does. And again, there is evidence to that effect that shows a very clear linear relationship between number of guns within a population and number of gun related fatalities within the population.ejleonjr said:
Maybe I am missing something. But thats like saying swimming in water increases the likelihood of drowning, while someone else says that swimming is exercise and increases the likelihood of good health.rgambs said:
The data that shows a correlation between gun ownership and likelihood of gun victimization is evident in those same newspaper articles. You are only proving the point.ejleonjr said:
Yes refer to your local newspaper, national newspaper, or world news. Anyone who has been robbed or a victim of a crime who did not have a concealed weapon. If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
Robberies much more likely than simply wanting my stuff. They can have it.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
That's what I figured.ejleonjr said:
If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
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Fuck the stuff Callen,what about someone(rapist) attacking your daughter or wife or mother.What if its 2 perps.I think the big picture is being able to protect you and yours.callen said:
Odds. I'll go with odds. No gun less likely to be shot.rr165892 said:
Ben you can twist this to meet every point of view.If you are victim of a crime at the hands of a knife wielding fuck tard and a good citizen who happens to be carrying a hand gun come comes to your aid by scaring away or confronting the attacker,you could say it has affected your safety but for the better.benjs said:
I suppose the difference is that your swimming doesn't affect my safety. Your carrying a gun, however, does. And again, there is evidence to that effect that shows a very clear linear relationship between number of guns within a population and number of gun related fatalities within the population.ejleonjr said:
Maybe I am missing something. But thats like saying swimming in water increases the likelihood of drowning, while someone else says that swimming is exercise and increases the likelihood of good health.rgambs said:
The data that shows a correlation between gun ownership and likelihood of gun victimization is evident in those same newspaper articles. You are only proving the point.ejleonjr said:
Yes refer to your local newspaper, national newspaper, or world news. Anyone who has been robbed or a victim of a crime who did not have a concealed weapon. If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
Robberies much more likely than simply wanting my stuff. They can have it.0 -
Some might say you are doing more to protect your family by not having a gun in your house. I wonder what the statistics would say regarding the chances of you having to fend off someone threatening your family and the chance of having an accidental (or not) shooting within your family home by a family member.rr165892 said:
Fuck the stuff Callen,what about someone(rapist) attacking your daughter or wife or mother.What if its 2 perps.I think the big picture is being able to protect you and yours.callen said:
Odds. I'll go with odds. No gun less likely to be shot.rr165892 said:
Ben you can twist this to meet every point of view.If you are victim of a crime at the hands of a knife wielding fuck tard and a good citizen who happens to be carrying a hand gun come comes to your aid by scaring away or confronting the attacker,you could say it has affected your safety but for the better.benjs said:
I suppose the difference is that your swimming doesn't affect my safety. Your carrying a gun, however, does. And again, there is evidence to that effect that shows a very clear linear relationship between number of guns within a population and number of gun related fatalities within the population.ejleonjr said:
Maybe I am missing something. But thats like saying swimming in water increases the likelihood of drowning, while someone else says that swimming is exercise and increases the likelihood of good health.rgambs said:
The data that shows a correlation between gun ownership and likelihood of gun victimization is evident in those same newspaper articles. You are only proving the point.ejleonjr said:
Yes refer to your local newspaper, national newspaper, or world news. Anyone who has been robbed or a victim of a crime who did not have a concealed weapon. If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
Robberies much more likely than simply wanting my stuff. They can have it.
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Yeah think odds are still better of not having a gun in the house. Total odds of gun in house causing harm than stranger coming in and being able to use the gun. Being in the right place at right time and someone actually doing this to your family. I could be wrong and do get the wanting to be able to protect oneself. Still think carrying is nuts. Properly stored gun at home with everyone knowing how to use. Yeah get it. And am totally against taking this right away from you.rr165892 said:
Fuck the stuff Callen,what about someone(rapist) attacking your daughter or wife or mother.What if its 2 perps.I think the big picture is being able to protect you and yours.callen said:
Odds. I'll go with odds. No gun less likely to be shot.rr165892 said:
Ben you can twist this to meet every point of view.If you are victim of a crime at the hands of a knife wielding fuck tard and a good citizen who happens to be carrying a hand gun come comes to your aid by scaring away or confronting the attacker,you could say it has affected your safety but for the better.benjs said:
I suppose the difference is that your swimming doesn't affect my safety. Your carrying a gun, however, does. And again, there is evidence to that effect that shows a very clear linear relationship between number of guns within a population and number of gun related fatalities within the population.ejleonjr said:
Maybe I am missing something. But thats like saying swimming in water increases the likelihood of drowning, while someone else says that swimming is exercise and increases the likelihood of good health.rgambs said:
The data that shows a correlation between gun ownership and likelihood of gun victimization is evident in those same newspaper articles. You are only proving the point.ejleonjr said:
Yes refer to your local newspaper, national newspaper, or world news. Anyone who has been robbed or a victim of a crime who did not have a concealed weapon. If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
Robberies much more likely than simply wanting my stuff. They can have it.Post edited by callen on10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
What if what if what ifrr165892 said:
Fuck the stuff Callen,what about someone(rapist) attacking your daughter or wife or mother.What if its 2 perps.I think the big picture is being able to protect you and yours.callen said:
Odds. I'll go with odds. No gun less likely to be shot.rr165892 said:
Ben you can twist this to meet every point of view.If you are victim of a crime at the hands of a knife wielding fuck tard and a good citizen who happens to be carrying a hand gun come comes to your aid by scaring away or confronting the attacker,you could say it has affected your safety but for the better.benjs said:
I suppose the difference is that your swimming doesn't affect my safety. Your carrying a gun, however, does. And again, there is evidence to that effect that shows a very clear linear relationship between number of guns within a population and number of gun related fatalities within the population.ejleonjr said:
Maybe I am missing something. But thats like saying swimming in water increases the likelihood of drowning, while someone else says that swimming is exercise and increases the likelihood of good health.rgambs said:
The data that shows a correlation between gun ownership and likelihood of gun victimization is evident in those same newspaper articles. You are only proving the point.ejleonjr said:
Yes refer to your local newspaper, national newspaper, or world news. Anyone who has been robbed or a victim of a crime who did not have a concealed weapon. If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
Robberies much more likely than simply wanting my stuff. They can have it.
What if you're a moron and shoot your daughter's boyfriend?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/14/charges-unlikely-for-houston-dad-accused-shooting-daughters-boyfriend/
I chose a Fox news link, so don't worry - it's fair and balanced.0 -
Coworker has three kids. Up to 7 years old. Bragged how he keeps gun in nightstand. Bit lip. Didn't ask of safeguards.
And the boy loves to drink.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
CM189191 said:
What if what if what ifrr165892 said:
Fuck the stuff Callen,what about someone(rapist) attacking your daughter or wife or mother.What if its 2 perps.I think the big picture is being able to protect you and yours.callen said:
Odds. I'll go with odds. No gun less likely to be shot.rr165892 said:
Ben you can twist this to meet every point of view.If you are victim of a crime at the hands of a knife wielding fuck tard and a good citizen who happens to be carrying a hand gun come comes to your aid by scaring away or confronting the attacker,you could say it has affected your safety but for the better.benjs said:
I suppose the difference is that your swimming doesn't affect my safety. Your carrying a gun, however, does. And again, there is evidence to that effect that shows a very clear linear relationship between number of guns within a population and number of gun related fatalities within the population.ejleonjr said:
Maybe I am missing something. But thats like saying swimming in water increases the likelihood of drowning, while someone else says that swimming is exercise and increases the likelihood of good health.rgambs said:
The data that shows a correlation between gun ownership and likelihood of gun victimization is evident in those same newspaper articles. You are only proving the point.ejleonjr said:
Yes refer to your local newspaper, national newspaper, or world news. Anyone who has been robbed or a victim of a crime who did not have a concealed weapon. If you are looking for a specific study with the specific words that are discussed here, I am not searching for that info.dignin said:
You have any data to back up that claim?ejleonjr said:
I respectfully disagree. To carry is really no different physically than carrying your wallet. As far as being in greater risk of being injured by a gun. There is factual legitimacy to that statement but you can also factually say that without concealed carry, you and those around you run a greater risk of being victimized.callen said:
No your just putting yourself and those around you at greater risk of being injured by gun. And what a pain in the butt to have to walk around with it.ejleonjr said:Paranoid or not, you should conceal carry. Better safe than sorry.
Robberies much more likely than simply wanting my stuff. They can have it.
What if you're a moron and shoot your daughter's boyfriend?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/14/charges-unlikely-for-houston-dad-accused-shooting-daughters-boyfriend/
I chose a Fox news link, so don't worry - it's fair and balanced.
I still don't understand how guns actually make people safe when America has a disproportionate level of gun crime compared to similarly developed nations. What's the deal? Isn't this a perfect example of escalation leading to more violence or is there a big picture I'm missing? Does carrying a gun the US actually make you safer or does it simply make you feel safer? I mean, up here in Canada I'm not worried about being attacked by a random knife (or gun) wielding psychopath and I've never felt a need to carry a gun for safety. If this isn't cultural, why is this so different for Americans?0 -
When my youngest was in High School she thought she wanted to be in Law enforcement.(FBI agent)
We would go to the range together,always practicing safety and responsible gun ownership.We never worried about our children "Playing" with guns as they were taught to respect them and know there potential deadly dangers.
It really is no different then the lessons learned about handling lawn mowers and chain saws and skill saws and hammers,etc.
It seems more Kids are given I phones and the keys to moms BMW which is waaaaaay more deadly.Just check any news any day.0 -
I also think there is confusion about what "carrying" is to some of us.I have guns at home.I am not a gun nut .My wife won't touch them,but likes that they are there.
I do travel with one in my work bag which stays with me thru-out the day.I am trained and do have a CCP(permit).But I rarely carry in my pocket with the exception of a 5.30 am bike run with my dog thru natural wooded areas near our home.My concern isn't knife crazies jumping out of bushes but Bobcats,rapid coons,Wild Boar and any other thing we could encounter while on a dark trail that could threaten my dogs safety.Ive never needed it in the few years I've been doing it but I like the security of having it.
Also for those of you who have drivin thru the middle of Florida there is nothing there.Traveling with protection is a prudent decision if broke down or stuck out in the middle of nowhere.All law enforcement buddies of mine who see the sick and twisted side of reality,think it is crazy not to have protection and they see this shit up close.The bad guys will always get the weapons they need.Gun,knife,bomb,poison it Doesn't matter if they want to inflict harm they will find a way.I feel why give them an easy target?0 -
thank you, sirfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
The views posted by the reasonable and intelligent members of this little community have gone neither unnoticed nor unappreciated.
Two sides.0
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