Student Loans / Debt

rgambs

hedonist said:

rgambs said:

bootlegger10 said:

unsung said:

And yes it will burst. There's about $1T in outstanding loans from what I've heard. My girlfriend barely gets by because her payments are out of control by high interest rates that Fannie Mae won't refinance. It's ridiculous.

The other message that should be put out is that the system creates the issue by burning it into the grains of kids that they need to go to college. I'm sick of that indoctrination. It is reckless.

A four year degree is ridiculous for most occupations in my opinion. I really don't think I'd be any better or worse off if I started my job after two years of college taking courses that directly applied to my career path.

Both of you are right. My wife owes 130,000! At 6.5% interest!! There won't be any doctors or lawyers, dentists or professors, any kind of professionals left in 20 years if it keeps up like this, why would you bother? And that's folks who are supposed to be better off, but they are struggling.

Whoa, rg...that's quite an investment - one I assume will pay off over time? Otherwise why do it?

I'm a big proponent of vocational schools, of mastering a skill (or skills) that will always be valuable.

That said, neither my husband nor I hold degrees and we're doing pretty well. Much to be said for education via school but as important are experience and smarts.

She was swindled lol! They don't give you the interest rate until you are in too deep, and if you quit in your first year, you owe 30k for nothing. Optometry is a fast growing and lucrative field they said! 100,000k+ a year they said! Not quite. The doctor she works for graduated in the 80's with 10k debt and started with a HIGHER salary than her (after adjustment for inflation). The older generation rode the bubble up their whole careers, and now they want an average of half a million for practices that are making less money each year, because they are greedy from having it easy. So in order to avoid another half million or more of debt, more Optometrists are going corporate, further dwindling the field and it's profitability, not to mention the quality of eye exams.

rgambs

It is the same for all professionals. Physicians, lawyers, professors, basically anything but finance and the degree is liable to drown you. It does not bode well for the future when science doesn't pay, and banking does.

PJ_Soul

justam said:

I think university debt is a big problem. Especially when people go to graduate school, they can come out of college with far too much debt. Unless they are going to be dentists, or physicians, it's a heavy burden to carry for a lot of years!

My husband and I are making sure our sons get their undergraduate degrees without acquiring any debt so they will not have to worry that. Since we aren't rich, that means they are required (by us) not to attend an expensive private college (go to a state university instead) and they have to live at home until they graduate to save on housing. I know we're limiting their choices BUT I think they'll prefer their freedom from debt when they are done!

Meanwhile, my younger son is getting all kinds of postcards and advertisements from universities to try to sell their product... Education appears to be a big business these days...

Actually, it's even worse for those who go to medical school. They have to get student loans for that too. I read that the average medical school grad/new doctor has $200,000+ in student loans to pay off. That is a huge amount of debt to repay even if you have a really good salary. The result here is that it's getting harder and harder to get people to be GPs or ER doctors or other urgently needed doctors who don't get paid the way provate plastic surgeons and other very highly paid specialists do. There is a massive shortage of GPs and ER docs in North America, and they are arguably the most important and most needed doctors in our society. So here is another example of the trickle down effect of outrageous post-secondary tuitions coupled with bad student loan conditions. It's contributing greatly to the constant state of crisis in the Healthcare system.

rgambs

PJ_Soul said:

justam said:

I think university debt is a big problem. Especially when people go to graduate school, they can come out of college with far too much debt. Unless they are going to be dentists, or physicians, it's a heavy burden to carry for a lot of years!

My husband and I are making sure our sons get their undergraduate degrees without acquiring any debt so they will not have to worry that. Since we aren't rich, that means they are required (by us) not to attend an expensive private college (go to a state university instead) and they have to live at home until they graduate to save on housing. I know we're limiting their choices BUT I think they'll prefer their freedom from debt when they are done!

Meanwhile, my younger son is getting all kinds of postcards and advertisements from universities to try to sell their product... Education appears to be a big business these days...

Actually, it's even worse for those who go to medical school. They have to get student loans for that too. I read that the average medical school grad/new doctor has $200,000+ in student loans to pay off. That is a huge amount of debt to repay even if you have a really good salary. The result here is that it's getting harder and harder to get people to be GPs or ER doctors or other urgently needed doctors who don't get paid the way provate plastic surgeons and other very highly paid specialists do. There is a massive shortage of GPs and ER docs in North America, and they are arguably the most important and most needed doctors in our society. So here is another example of the trickle down effect of outrageous post-secondary tuitions coupled with bad student loan conditions. It's contributing greatly to the constant state of crisis in the Healthcare system.

This is exactly correct! It is a sad state, and only getting worse.

oftenreading

I don't think I expressed myself well in my earlier post. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting further education; far from it. However, it needs to be done with realistic planning, without a lot of wasted time. If someone doesn't know what they want to study, then they probably shouldn't be incurring debt for full time college or university; instead, they can be exploring their options and interests with part time or evening courses or volunteering while they work. And they need to keep their expectations reasonable. Perhaps I am cynical; I prefer to think I'm a realist.

Indifference71

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

Chicago public school (CPS) teachers average $76,000 a year, their new contract just secured them a 17% raise over the next three years. 40% of CPS freshmen won't graduate, of those that do 90% need remedial classes in college to catch up their basic math skills.

This is a CPS prom. This is the best these highly paid teachers could achieve.



They probably just aren't paid enough. That's the problem.

Their union boss is going to run for mayor.

She makes me want to puke.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Indifference71 said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

Chicago public school (CPS) teachers average $76,000 a year, their new contract just secured them a 17% raise over the next three years. 40% of CPS freshmen won't graduate, of those that do 90% need remedial classes in college to catch up their basic math skills.

This is a CPS prom. This is the best these highly paid teachers could achieve.



They probably just aren't paid enough. That's the problem.

Their union boss is going to run for mayor.

She makes me want to puke.

She is going to be the next mayor.

unsung

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

SPEEDY MCCREADY

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

hedonist

oftenreading said:

I don't think I expressed myself well in my earlier post. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting further education; far from it. However, it needs to be done with realistic planning, without a lot of wasted time. If someone doesn't know what they want to study, then they probably shouldn't be incurring debt for full time college or university; instead, they can be exploring their options and interests with part time or evening courses or volunteering while they work. And they need to keep their expectations reasonable. Perhaps I am cynical; I prefer to think I'm a realist.

I don't take it as cynicism at all. Hopefully those starting out DO think things through, have been given (taught) the tools to do so through their parents and schooling, and make decisions with as much forethought and practicality as possible.

Realism kicks ass.

(this, from one who knows she can be emotional!)

rgambs

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

Do you agree that she is the "wrong" choice like those you quoted? I can't tell from your posts if you are agreeing with the negative sentiments or just stating what you think will happen.
IF you feel that way, your last post seems offensive to me. The implication is that middle class to wealthy white men are the only voters who vote intelligently.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

rgambs said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

Do you agree that she is the "wrong" choice like those you quoted? I can't tell from your posts if you are agreeing with the negative sentiments or just stating what you think will happen.
IF you feel that way, your last post seems offensive to me. The implication is that middle class to wealthy white men are the only voters who vote intelligently.

Not meant to be offensive.
Just saying she will get a ton of votes.
Plenty of middle class, wealthy white men working for the city, and the unions, who will vote for her. She will run away with that mayoral election.

She will be the next mayor of Chicago.

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

Do you agree that she is the "wrong" choice like those you quoted? I can't tell from your posts if you are agreeing with the negative sentiments or just stating what you think will happen.
IF you feel that way, your last post seems offensive to me. The implication is that middle class to wealthy white men are the only voters who vote intelligently.

That's actually how I read it too.

unsung

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

rgambs said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

Do you agree that she is the "wrong" choice like those you quoted? I can't tell from your posts if you are agreeing with the negative sentiments or just stating what you think will happen.
IF you feel that way, your last post seems offensive to me. The implication is that middle class to wealthy white men are the only voters who vote intelligently.

Not meant to be offensive.
Just saying she will get a ton of votes.
Plenty of middle class, wealthy white men working for the city, and the unions, who will vote for her. She will run away with that mayoral election.

She will be the next mayor of Chicago.

I believe she will as well. I heard she's even trying to dump 100 lbs to appeal to voters. No, I'm not saying that is necessary, just stating she is serious.

Rahm is not really well liked, it really is interesting.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

rgambs said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

Do you agree that she is the "wrong" choice like those you quoted? I can't tell from your posts if you are agreeing with the negative sentiments or just stating what you think will happen.
IF you feel that way, your last post seems offensive to me. The implication is that middle class to wealthy white men are the only voters who vote intelligently.

Not meant to be offensive.
Just saying she will get a ton of votes.
Plenty of middle class, wealthy white men working for the city, and the unions, who will vote for her. She will run away with that mayoral election.

She will be the next mayor of Chicago.

Well... if she is that popular and gets that many votes, then it sounds as if you guys will be getting a great mayor!

rgambs

Perhaps her opponent wears a top hat and monocle and talks like Snidely Whiplash, or KittenMittens Romney. I know it wasn't MEANT to be offensive, but it galls nonetheless.

callen

Paid for my schooling class by class. Took many years and 30% paid by employer but no debt.

All new graduates I know that have jobs have car payment, latest phones , nice apartments/condos, eat out all the time, yet bitch about not affording student loans.

When one takes out a loan, you have to realize what the monthly payment will be and make it happen. Same shit as housing crises. Don't blame schools or lending institutions, blame yourself.

Sucks that I will be paying for these loans as these people will get forgiven and then make a shitload of cash later in life.

callen

unsung said:

Every time someone tries to tell me that homeschooling and Montessori schools are bad all I need is a CPS story to show how I'll keep my kids out of those government indoctrination camps.

Now that could be another whole thread.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

Do you agree that she is the "wrong" choice like those you quoted? I can't tell from your posts if you are agreeing with the negative sentiments or just stating what you think will happen.
IF you feel that way, your last post seems offensive to me. The implication is that middle class to wealthy white men are the only voters who vote intelligently.

That's actually how I read it too.

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

unsung said:

That's going to be a bigger train wreck than Rahm.

No pun intended

Every union worker will vote for her.
I would think most city employees will vote for her.
Every low income worker will vote for her.
95% of the Black vote will be hers.
95% of the Hispanic vote will be hers.
95% of the Female vote will be hers.

Do you agree that she is the "wrong" choice like those you quoted? I can't tell from your posts if you are agreeing with the negative sentiments or just stating what you think will happen.
IF you feel that way, your last post seems offensive to me. The implication is that middle class to wealthy white men are the only voters who vote intelligently.

That's actually how I read it too.

Well let me be the 1st to tell you.
You're fucking wrong.

unsung

I didn't read it that way.

So it's racist to state that she will get votes based on demographics but not racist to say that Obama got 96% of the black vote.

Yeah, ok.