Fast Food Workers Protesting.

13

Comments

  • backseatLover12backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited September 2014
    Arguing whether fast food workers should get better pay, while their corporate owners dodge millions in taxes by buying small companies other countries.

    Priceless.
  • Arguing whether fast food workers should get better pay, while their corporate owners dodge millions in taxes by buying small companies other countries.

    Priceless.

    Completely specious argument. Again, if you want all the profits to go to the workers, that's fine. But, the current workers may find themselves without jobs. As for dodging taxes - a COMPLETELY separate, but worthy topic having nothing to do with wage scales.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Jason P said:

    rgambs said:

    Jason P said:

    rgambs said:

    Jason P said:

    Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

    I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

    That's just not true. They wouldn't leave a union shop and lose their health benefits, or a non-union shop that is full time either. Fast food joints don't hire many, if any, full time employees, because they aren't providing health insurance. That predates Obamacare.
    I don't work at a union plant. Although the pay is good and the benifit package is great, people would certainly be looking for part-time burger flipping jobs for $15/hr. Easy money.
    There aren't many people getting second jobs in addition to factory work nowadays. If you aren't on forced 12's yet, count your blessings and get yourself prepared, it is the new standard in manufacturing, coming soon to a factory near you. I have done fast food, and I have done a few different factory jobs, easy money it is not. Hot, sweaty, stinky, disrespected, sound familiar? Awful similar to a factory job, plus the added benefit of dealing with a public who seems to think of you as nearly subhuman. This board shows the contempt, lazy assholes can't cook for themselves but want to feel superior to their "burger flipper" or "fry guy"
    12's give you 182 days off per year versus 91 days off for working traditional 8 hr shifts for the same hours worked. Some see a benefit it that extra free time. Some don't and prefer a traditional week, but I'm not feeling sorry for someone that gets twice as many days off then I do.

    no offense, but where do you work, i want to come get a piece. In ohio when someone says 12's it's understood they mean 6 or 7 days a week.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • STAYSEASTAYSEA Posts: 3,814
    This makes me so heated. I feel like Jack Donaghy from 30 rock
    I will inset a random Jack quote...
    "I saw it Lemon. My whole life passing before my eyes. Neil Patterson pitching me the rotating microwave tray. Me personally coining the phrase "what's the upside." Participating in hands across America. And all the time I've been on this earth I have only one regret: I should have worked more. "

    I often find myself a conservative liberal.
    I work for minimum wage. I tell myself I'm going to finish college one day....

    8-|
    I would love to be paid more. I would love health benefits .
    Sick days? Paid time off? Vacation time? These concepts seem incredible.
    A majority of the people I work with have at least 2 jobs if they can not get a full time position at this "minimum wage" job, to make ends meet.
    A full time minimum wage job is so scare.....

    Hell Yes I would be loved to be paid more.
    Am I willing to sacrifice the cost of living increasing as well??

    Eh? Perhaps not.
    I rather not have a huge raise than have the price of gasoline and food skyrocket.

    If they raise they "minimum" wage to 15$ I will likely have to get a 3rd job to afford the inflated prices of essentials.

    But just as Unsung said ... We have minimum minds. minimum skills.
    Sadly we are not all so smart. What do I know
    image
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    STAYSEA said:

    This makes me so heated. I feel like Jack Donaghy from 30 rock
    I will inset a random Jack quote...
    "I saw it Lemon. My whole life passing before my eyes. Neil Patterson pitching me the rotating microwave tray. Me personally coining the phrase "what's the upside." Participating in hands across America. And all the time I've been on this earth I have only one regret: I should have worked more. "

    I often find myself a conservative liberal.
    I work for minimum wage. I tell myself I'm going to finish college one day....

    8-|
    I would love to be paid more. I would love health benefits .
    Sick days? Paid time off? Vacation time? These concepts seem incredible.
    A majority of the people I work with have at least 2 jobs if they can not get a full time position at this "minimum wage" job, to make ends meet.
    A full time minimum wage job is so scare.....

    Hell Yes I would be loved to be paid more.
    Am I willing to sacrifice the cost of living increasing as well??

    Eh? Perhaps not.
    I rather not have a huge raise than have the price of gasoline and food skyrocket.

    If they raise they "minimum" wage to 15$ I will likely have to get a 3rd job to afford the inflated prices of essentials.

    But just as Unsung said ... We have minimum minds. minimum skills.
    Sadly we are not all so smart. What do I know


    gas, and most food prices arent that closely tied to minimum wage. Prices go up on their own, wage hikes are always behind. If somebody thinks they can find some evidence of cost of living increases tied to wage raises, please do. I have never seen such data, and considering it's the big claim before wage raises i think it's absence after raises is pretty telling.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    rgambs said:

    Jason P said:

    rgambs said:

    Jason P said:

    rgambs said:

    Jason P said:

    Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

    I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

    That's just not true. They wouldn't leave a union shop and lose their health benefits, or a non-union shop that is full time either. Fast food joints don't hire many, if any, full time employees, because they aren't providing health insurance. That predates Obamacare.
    I don't work at a union plant. Although the pay is good and the benifit package is great, people would certainly be looking for part-time burger flipping jobs for $15/hr. Easy money.
    There aren't many people getting second jobs in addition to factory work nowadays. If you aren't on forced 12's yet, count your blessings and get yourself prepared, it is the new standard in manufacturing, coming soon to a factory near you. I have done fast food, and I have done a few different factory jobs, easy money it is not. Hot, sweaty, stinky, disrespected, sound familiar? Awful similar to a factory job, plus the added benefit of dealing with a public who seems to think of you as nearly subhuman. This board shows the contempt, lazy assholes can't cook for themselves but want to feel superior to their "burger flipper" or "fry guy"
    12's give you 182 days off per year versus 91 days off for working traditional 8 hr shifts for the same hours worked. Some see a benefit it that extra free time. Some don't and prefer a traditional week, but I'm not feeling sorry for someone that gets twice as many days off then I do.

    no offense, but where do you work, i want to come get a piece. In ohio when someone says 12's it's understood they mean 6 or 7 days a week.
    Indiana. They rotate 3 on / 4 off and 4 on / 3 off. The only bad part is they rotate between day and night shift every other week. Daylight savings time switch screws me up for a month so I'm not sure I could handle that schedule.

    Suprising to see that 12s means 6 to 7 days a week. That is a ton of O.T. for a company to pay out. Doesn't make sense if you are trying to generate profit.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    nope it sure doesnt. Production actually plummets, but the theory is that the health care savings makes it worthwhile... I dont think its working. Frackers work 16's 6 or 7 a week. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited September 2014
    STAYSEA said:

    This makes me so heated. I feel like Jack Donaghy from 30 rock
    I will inset a random Jack quote...
    "I saw it Lemon. My whole life passing before my eyes. Neil Patterson pitching me the rotating microwave tray. Me personally coining the phrase "what's the upside." Participating in hands across America. And all the time I've been on this earth I have only one regret: I should have worked more. "

    I often find myself a conservative liberal.
    I work for minimum wage. I tell myself I'm going to finish college one day....

    8-|
    I would love to be paid more. I would love health benefits .
    Sick days? Paid time off? Vacation time? These concepts seem incredible.
    A majority of the people I work with have at least 2 jobs if they can not get a full time position at this "minimum wage" job, to make ends meet.
    A full time minimum wage job is so scare.....

    Hell Yes I would be loved to be paid more.
    Am I willing to sacrifice the cost of living increasing as well??

    Eh? Perhaps not.
    I rather not have a huge raise than have the price of gasoline and food skyrocket.

    If they raise they "minimum" wage to 15$ I will likely have to get a 3rd job to afford the inflated prices of essentials.

    But just as Unsung said ... We have minimum minds. minimum skills.
    Sadly we are not all so smart. What do I know

    If you were paid more it would drastically out weight inflation for goods and services. Everyone including those that make more than minimum absorb the cost. Those that get increase get it all. AND THOSE Fkn people in oil industry all make more than 15 so no impact. Yeah a Big Mac may go up a dollar and know how tasty they are. Yum yum.

    Post edited by callen on
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • The minimum wage definitely needs an overhaul...maybe not $15 but I've seen the $10.10/hour amount thrown around and that seems reasonable as a start.

    I can't believe so many on the right oppose this. They don't want people on welfare yet they don't want people to make a living wage. If a married couple can make $40K/year working minimum wage (at $10.10/hour) I think that makes a lot of sense. That would take a ton of people off of welfare and have the corporations pay rather than the taxpayers. The corporations are able to skirt paying corporate taxes but they can't avoid paying their employees.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • STAYSEA said:

    This makes me so heated. I feel like Jack Donaghy from 30 rock
    I will inset a random Jack quote...
    "I saw it Lemon. My whole life passing before my eyes. Neil Patterson pitching me the rotating microwave tray. Me personally coining the phrase "what's the upside." Participating in hands across America. And all the time I've been on this earth I have only one regret: I should have worked more. "

    I often find myself a conservative liberal.
    I work for minimum wage. I tell myself I'm going to finish college one day....

    8-|
    I would love to be paid more. I would love health benefits .
    Sick days? Paid time off? Vacation time? These concepts seem incredible.
    A majority of the people I work with have at least 2 jobs if they can not get a full time position at this "minimum wage" job, to make ends meet.
    A full time minimum wage job is so scare.....

    Hell Yes I would be loved to be paid more.
    Am I willing to sacrifice the cost of living increasing as well??

    Eh? Perhaps not.
    I rather not have a huge raise than have the price of gasoline and food skyrocket.

    If they raise they "minimum" wage to 15$ I will likely have to get a 3rd job to afford the inflated prices of essentials.

    But just as Unsung said ... We have minimum minds. minimum skills.
    Sadly we are not all so smart. What do I know

    Prices are based on the market....not what employees are being paid. If McDonald's would try to raise prices to offset their additional wage costs then competition will ramp up to steal away customers. I'm sure Burger King would be glad to make a smaller profit margin to steal McDonald's sales. Unless there is price fixing prices would be fine.

    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    STAYSEA said:

    This makes me so heated. I feel like Jack Donaghy from 30 rock
    I will inset a random Jack quote...
    "I saw it Lemon. My whole life passing before my eyes. Neil Patterson pitching me the rotating microwave tray. Me personally coining the phrase "what's the upside." Participating in hands across America. And all the time I've been on this earth I have only one regret: I should have worked more. "

    I often find myself a conservative liberal.
    I work for minimum wage. I tell myself I'm going to finish college one day....

    8-|
    I would love to be paid more. I would love health benefits .
    Sick days? Paid time off? Vacation time? These concepts seem incredible.
    A majority of the people I work with have at least 2 jobs if they can not get a full time position at this "minimum wage" job, to make ends meet.
    A full time minimum wage job is so scare.....

    Hell Yes I would be loved to be paid more.
    Am I willing to sacrifice the cost of living increasing as well??

    Eh? Perhaps not.
    I rather not have a huge raise than have the price of gasoline and food skyrocket.

    If they raise they "minimum" wage to 15$ I will likely have to get a 3rd job to afford the inflated prices of essentials.

    But just as Unsung said ... We have minimum minds. minimum skills.
    Sadly we are not all so smart. What do I know


    I never said anything about minimum minds. Don't put that on me.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    Why are the protesters and the advocates for an increase in minimum wage focused on $15/hr? If the goal is to provide people with a comfortable, living wage why not $30/hr? That would take a lot of pressure off, and allow people to not only cover basic bills, but go out and spend that money wouldn't it? This is something I've never understood. If we're just picking an hourly rate, devoid of business considerations, why be so limiting?
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388

    STAYSEA said:

    This makes me so heated. I feel like Jack Donaghy from 30 rock
    I will inset a random Jack quote...
    "I saw it Lemon. My whole life passing before my eyes. Neil Patterson pitching me the rotating microwave tray. Me personally coining the phrase "what's the upside." Participating in hands across America. And all the time I've been on this earth I have only one regret: I should have worked more. "

    I often find myself a conservative liberal.
    I work for minimum wage. I tell myself I'm going to finish college one day....

    8-|
    I would love to be paid more. I would love health benefits .
    Sick days? Paid time off? Vacation time? These concepts seem incredible.
    A majority of the people I work with have at least 2 jobs if they can not get a full time position at this "minimum wage" job, to make ends meet.
    A full time minimum wage job is so scare.....

    Hell Yes I would be loved to be paid more.
    Am I willing to sacrifice the cost of living increasing as well??

    Eh? Perhaps not.
    I rather not have a huge raise than have the price of gasoline and food skyrocket.

    If they raise they "minimum" wage to 15$ I will likely have to get a 3rd job to afford the inflated prices of essentials.

    But just as Unsung said ... We have minimum minds. minimum skills.
    Sadly we are not all so smart. What do I know

    Prices are based on the market....not what employees are being paid. If McDonald's would try to raise prices to offset their additional wage costs then competition will ramp up to steal away customers. I'm sure Burger King would be glad to make a smaller profit margin to steal McDonald's sales. Unless there is price fixing prices would be fine.

    And the price of labor will go up for them all. So thinking they'll pretty much match each other's current offer. Would balance out. Now question is how much? Sooo what percentage of total costs is labor? And
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,604
    unsung said:

    Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

    Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

    Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

    What about a Private in the Army that would make less than a burger flipper?

    with a uniform allowance, on base housing paid for, medical care paid for, chow at the mess hall paid for. And still their pay lags behind everyones. Was true when I served in 88-90 as it is now.

    So please tell me your point in this?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    jeffbr said:

    Why are the protesters and the advocates for an increase in minimum wage focused on $15/hr? If the goal is to provide people with a comfortable, living wage why not $30/hr? That would take a lot of pressure off, and allow people to not only cover basic bills, but go out and spend that money wouldn't it? This is something I've never understood. If we're just picking an hourly rate, devoid of business considerations, why be so limiting?

    Because we/they aren't devoid of business considerations.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    jeffbr said:

    Why are the protesters and the advocates for an increase in minimum wage focused on $15/hr? If the goal is to provide people with a comfortable, living wage why not $30/hr? That would take a lot of pressure off, and allow people to not only cover basic bills, but go out and spend that money wouldn't it? This is something I've never understood. If we're just picking an hourly rate, devoid of business considerations, why be so limiting?

    I said $100.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    mickeyrat said:

    unsung said:

    Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

    Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

    Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

    What about a Private in the Army that would make less than a burger flipper?

    with a uniform allowance, on base housing paid for, medical care paid for, chow at the mess hall paid for. And still their pay lags behind everyones. Was true when I served in 88-90 as it is now.

    So please tell me your point in this?

    It's odd how everything needs to be spelled out for people to understand.

    I feel it would be a travesty that a burger flipper would make more than a soldier.

    Does that clear it up?
  • minimum wage- translation... "i would pay you less, but i can't".
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    I know I've said this in every minimum wage thread I've come across but if you really have an interest in this subject read Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed. Then take a few years off and try to repeat her experiment.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    We know about mega-corps raking in big profits and paying their workers shit wages. But how will this affect a typical small business? Should there be small business exemptions? We can talk about the macro economics of this, but that doesn't help a small business on a constrained budget.

    So let's do a little hypothetical (making this up with round numbers just to make math easy):

    Small donut shop brings in $25k/month in revenue. Has expenses of $5k for rent, $10k for labor, $5k for cost of goods, $5k for taxes, insurance, overhead.

    New minimum wage law gets passed. New employees are bumped from $10/hr to $15/hr, and longer-term employees already making >$10/hr are bumped commensurate with the increase of new employees. Labor costs now are $15k/month, revenue is still $25k/mo. What are the options?
    1) raise the price of goods to increase revenue
    2) decrease the number of hours / worker to reduce labor costs
    3) reduce the number of headcount to reduce labor costs

    If #1 happens, then we all pay more for donuts, including the minimum wage worker, whose new windfall suddenly doesn't have the buying power it used to. If #2 happens, then the worker makes more / hour, but with fewer hours the paycheck looks the same (but they'll have more time for a 2nd job, I guess). If #3 happens, then the worker would probably rather still be making $10/hour rather than $0/hour while searching for a new job with all of the other displaced workers.

    Again, we can talk all day about the evils of Wallmart and McDonalds, but I'm just trying to understand how small businesses with pretty fixed budgets and no real flexibility on pricing absorb a large increase on the expense side of the ledger without it ultimately affecting both the worker and consumer.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    unsung said:

    mickeyrat said:

    unsung said:

    Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

    Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

    Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

    What about a Private in the Army that would make less than a burger flipper?

    with a uniform allowance, on base housing paid for, medical care paid for, chow at the mess hall paid for. And still their pay lags behind everyones. Was true when I served in 88-90 as it is now.

    So please tell me your point in this?

    It's odd how everything needs to be spelled out for people to understand.

    I feel it would be a travesty that a burger flipper would make more than a soldier.

    Does that clear it up?
    But that wouldn't be the case that's why.

    And saying why not give them 40 or more is being silly. Not sure if 15 is right number but ant increase would be good for our society.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    jeffbr said:

    We know about mega-corps raking in big profits and paying their workers shit wages. But how will this affect a typical small business? Should there be small business exemptions? We can talk about the macro economics of this, but that doesn't help a small business on a constrained budget.

    So let's do a little hypothetical (making this up with round numbers just to make math easy):

    Small donut shop brings in $25k/month in revenue. Has expenses of $5k for rent, $10k for labor, $5k for cost of goods, $5k for taxes, insurance, overhead.

    New minimum wage law gets passed. New employees are bumped from $10/hr to $15/hr, and longer-term employees already making >$10/hr are bumped commensurate with the increase of new employees. Labor costs now are $15k/month, revenue is still $25k/mo. What are the options?
    1) raise the price of goods to increase revenue
    2) decrease the number of hours / worker to reduce labor costs
    3) reduce the number of headcount to reduce labor costs

    If #1 happens, then we all pay more for donuts, including the minimum wage worker, whose new windfall suddenly doesn't have the buying power it used to. If #2 happens, then the worker makes more / hour, but with fewer hours the paycheck looks the same (but they'll have more time for a 2nd job, I guess). If #3 happens, then the worker would probably rather still be making $10/hour rather than $0/hour while searching for a new job with all of the other displaced workers.

    Again, we can talk all day about the evils of Wallmart and McDonalds, but I'm just trying to understand how small businesses with pretty fixed budgets and no real flexibility on pricing absorb a large increase on the expense side of the ledger without it ultimately affecting both the worker and consumer.

    Yes small business may get hurt due to lower volume and it's increased burden. Good point and my one reservation.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,604
    unsung said:

    mickeyrat said:

    unsung said:

    Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

    Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

    Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

    What about a Private in the Army that would make less than a burger flipper?

    with a uniform allowance, on base housing paid for, medical care paid for, chow at the mess hall paid for. And still their pay lags behind everyones. Was true when I served in 88-90 as it is now.

    So please tell me your point in this?

    It's odd how everything needs to be spelled out for people to understand.

    I feel it would be a travesty that a burger flipper would make more than a soldier.

    Does that clear it up?
    so taking into account the items listed that a min, wage worker does not get doesnt change ANY of your equation? Forgot to add GI Bill. Small individual contribution with a decent enough payout after service not to mention the ability to take classes while IN service at no or low cost.

    So your premise about the "pay" of our soldiers, sailors , airmen and marines is false.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    Come on- anybody gonna take the Ehrenreich challenge?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    jeffbr said:

    We know about mega-corps raking in big profits and paying their workers shit wages. But how will this affect a typical small business? Should there be small business exemptions? We can talk about the macro economics of this, but that doesn't help a small business on a constrained budget.

    So let's do a little hypothetical (making this up with round numbers just to make math easy):

    Small donut shop brings in $25k/month in revenue. Has expenses of $5k for rent, $10k for labor, $5k for cost of goods, $5k for taxes, insurance, overhead.

    New minimum wage law gets passed. New employees are bumped from $10/hr to $15/hr, and longer-term employees already making >$10/hr are bumped commensurate with the increase of new employees. Labor costs now are $15k/month, revenue is still $25k/mo. What are the options?
    1) raise the price of goods to increase revenue
    2) decrease the number of hours / worker to reduce labor costs
    3) reduce the number of headcount to reduce labor costs

    If #1 happens, then we all pay more for donuts, including the minimum wage worker, whose new windfall suddenly doesn't have the buying power it used to. If #2 happens, then the worker makes more / hour, but with fewer hours the paycheck looks the same (but they'll have more time for a 2nd job, I guess). If #3 happens, then the worker would probably rather still be making $10/hour rather than $0/hour while searching for a new job with all of the other displaced workers.

    Again, we can talk all day about the evils of Wallmart and McDonalds, but I'm just trying to understand how small businesses with pretty fixed budgets and no real flexibility on pricing absorb a large increase on the expense side of the ledger without it ultimately affecting both the worker and consumer.

    See, I appreciate this type of post, this type of thinking. There has to be a logical (business-side) consideration of the implications - not devoid of emotion but rational. If X happens, what will Y be? It's not hard-hearted or even hard-headed.

    I see it as being practical and certainly not worthy of being demonized or assumptions made that some (many, most?) are looking down at others. Far from the truth, I think at least within this forum.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    jeffbr said:

    We know about mega-corps raking in big profits and paying their workers shit wages. But how will this affect a typical small business? Should there be small business exemptions? We can talk about the macro economics of this, but that doesn't help a small business on a constrained budget.

    So let's do a little hypothetical (making this up with round numbers just to make math easy):

    Small donut shop brings in $25k/month in revenue. Has expenses of $5k for rent, $10k for labor, $5k for cost of goods, $5k for taxes, insurance, overhead.

    New minimum wage law gets passed. New employees are bumped from $10/hr to $15/hr, and longer-term employees already making >$10/hr are bumped commensurate with the increase of new employees. Labor costs now are $15k/month, revenue is still $25k/mo. What are the options?
    1) raise the price of goods to increase revenue
    2) decrease the number of hours / worker to reduce labor costs
    3) reduce the number of headcount to reduce labor costs

    If #1 happens, then we all pay more for donuts, including the minimum wage worker, whose new windfall suddenly doesn't have the buying power it used to. If #2 happens, then the worker makes more / hour, but with fewer hours the paycheck looks the same (but they'll have more time for a 2nd job, I guess). If #3 happens, then the worker would probably rather still be making $10/hour rather than $0/hour while searching for a new job with all of the other displaced workers.

    Again, we can talk all day about the evils of Wallmart and McDonalds, but I'm just trying to understand how small businesses with pretty fixed budgets and no real flexibility on pricing absorb a large increase on the expense side of the ledger without it ultimately affecting both the worker and consumer.

    It's hard not to get frustrated with this. No specific accusations, but it seems like alot of people don't look past the TV for their information. I already pointed this out, and it gets pointed out each time the wage raise debate comes up. It is ignored entirely by those issuing the right-wing talking points, and is rarely mentioned in the media.
    Businesses grossing less than 500,000 are exempt from FLSA minimum wage and overtime standards. You can see a summary of exemptions here, and I/many people support additional exemptions, and a progressive scale that considers expenses in balance with receipts. http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs14.htm
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    My bad, that is the overview of who is covered, HERE is the list of exemptions... http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/screen75.asp
    The first link does state the $500,000 threshold at which FLSA provisions are enacted, so it is entirely relevant.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Anyone else get a headache trying to read and actually decipher this shit?

    It's as bad as the IRS codes.

    (I mean the DOL info, not your posts, rgambs!)

    I could just be dealing with brain-fry but damn the fuckers who wrote this language.
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