Fast Food Workers Protesting.

rgambs

Indifference71 said:

Aren't there always going to be jobs that pay the minimum wage? Like it has been mentioned in this thread, there aren't a whole lot of skills that go into working at a fast food joint. To me, $15/hr for taking drive-thru orders and flipping burgers seems high.

And the whole "I can't support my family on minimum wage" argument is a bit much for me. Maybe you shouldn't be starting a family when you're only making minimum wage. Seems pretty irresponsible.

So college educated people are the only ones fit to start families? And what of those who started their families when they worked in manufacturing for decent wages? When greedy corporate lobbyists engineered tax breaks for outsourcing and their job gets shipped to China because of the starvation wages there, what then? 15$ an hr may sound high, but if you actually do the math, it is barely above the poverty line, which of course is artificially low. How about we stop giving corporate subsidies for the execs to stuff in their Cayman banks (without being taxed) and give it to the people who power the damn businesses. If we keep funneling money to the top the system will collapse, derivative bonds don't make an economy, people spending money is what makes an economy.

Indifference71

rgambs said:

Indifference71 said:

Aren't there always going to be jobs that pay the minimum wage? Like it has been mentioned in this thread, there aren't a whole lot of skills that go into working at a fast food joint. To me, $15/hr for taking drive-thru orders and flipping burgers seems high.

And the whole "I can't support my family on minimum wage" argument is a bit much for me. Maybe you shouldn't be starting a family when you're only making minimum wage. Seems pretty irresponsible.

So college educated people are the only ones fit to start families? And what of those who started their families when they worked in manufacturing for decent wages? When greedy corporate lobbyists engineered tax breaks for outsourcing and their job gets shipped to China because of the starvation wages there, what then? 15$ an hr may sound high, but if you actually do the math, it is barely above the poverty line, which of course is artificially low. How about we stop giving corporate subsidies for the execs to stuff in their Cayman banks (without being taxed) and give it to the people who power the damn businesses. If we keep funneling money to the top the system will collapse, derivative bonds don't make an economy, people spending money is what makes an economy.

Did I say that college educated people are the only ones fit to start families? No. Not what I said at all. This is why I try to stay away from this section of the board....people cannot have rational discussions about issues...just take what you say and twist your words around.

My point was that you shouldn't expect to support a family on minimum wage. Plain and simple.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Interesting opinions here.

hedonist

So, is it pay according to the job itself or the person holding the job - the skills they have that may have no bearing on the position?

Indifference made some good points with which I agree.

(and not that it needs to be said, but one can feel this way and still be a compassionate person)

rgambs

Indifference71 said:

rgambs said:

Indifference71 said:

Aren't there always going to be jobs that pay the minimum wage? Like it has been mentioned in this thread, there aren't a whole lot of skills that go into working at a fast food joint. To me, $15/hr for taking drive-thru orders and flipping burgers seems high.

And the whole "I can't support my family on minimum wage" argument is a bit much for me. Maybe you shouldn't be starting a family when you're only making minimum wage. Seems pretty irresponsible.

So college educated people are the only ones fit to start families? And what of those who started their families when they worked in manufacturing for decent wages? When greedy corporate lobbyists engineered tax breaks for outsourcing and their job gets shipped to China because of the starvation wages there, what then? 15$ an hr may sound high, but if you actually do the math, it is barely above the poverty line, which of course is artificially low. How about we stop giving corporate subsidies for the execs to stuff in their Cayman banks (without being taxed) and give it to the people who power the damn businesses. If we keep funneling money to the top the system will collapse, derivative bonds don't make an economy, people spending money is what makes an economy.

Did I say that college educated people are the only ones fit to start families? No. Not what I said at all. This is why I try to stay away from this section of the board....people cannot have rational discussions about issues...just take what you say and twist your words around.

My point was that you shouldn't expect to support a family on minimum wage. Plain and simple.

I understand what you said , but your point doesn't exist in a vacuum, it has real world implications. People have hard luck sometimes, and a decent wage can be the difference between getting back on your feet or getting on the dole. Not everyone working for minimuwage ia a loser who has no aspiration. Low wages cost taxpayers an aweful lot of money, it makes more sense to invest in your workers than to prop them up.

Jason P

Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

rgambs

Jason P said:

Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

That's just not true. They wouldn't leave a union shop and lose their health benefits, or a non-union shop that is full time either. Fast food joints don't hire many, if any, full time employees, because they aren't providing health insurance. That predates Obamacare.

Jason P

rgambs said:

Jason P said:

Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

That's just not true. They wouldn't leave a union shop and lose their health benefits, or a non-union shop that is full time either. Fast food joints don't hire many, if any, full time employees, because they aren't providing health insurance. That predates Obamacare.

I don't work at a union plant. Although the pay is good and the benifit package is great, people would certainly be looking for part-time burger flipping jobs for $15/hr. Easy money.

callen

unsung said:

Minimum wage jobs exist because the workers have minimum skills. They aren't intended to be careers.

And as straightforward as that may sound there are many that don't have the intellect to no fault of their own, to do much more than these low wage jobs. Think it cruel to have these otherwise hard working people struggling to eat. Then as we are more and more a country driven by service industry, these jobs are only thing that's available.

rgambs

Jason P said:

rgambs said:

Jason P said:

Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

That's just not true. They wouldn't leave a union shop and lose their health benefits, or a non-union shop that is full time either. Fast food joints don't hire many, if any, full time employees, because they aren't providing health insurance. That predates Obamacare.

I don't work at a union plant. Although the pay is good and the benifit package is great, people would certainly be looking for part-time burger flipping jobs for $15/hr. Easy money.

There aren't many people getting second jobs in addition to factory work nowadays. If you aren't on forced 12's yet, count your blessings and get yourself prepared, it is the new standard in manufacturing, coming soon to a factory near you. I have done fast food, and I have done a few different factory jobs, easy money it is not. Hot, sweaty, stinky, disrespected, sound familiar? Awful similar to a factory job, plus the added benefit of dealing with a public who seems to think of you as nearly subhuman. This board shows the contempt, lazy assholes can't cook for themselves but want to feel superior to their "burger flipper" or "fry guy"

cp3iverson

Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

rgambs

cp3iverson said:

Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

What happens is that people can catch up to inflation and rampant cost of living increases. More money in circulation means more money getting spent, sadly, on trinkets and baubles and the economy gets stronger. People are able to invest, to educate themselves and society gets healthier and stronger. Isn't that a solution in itself?

rgambs

It's almost as beneficial for those upstream and it is the folks at the bottom, but corporations are ofte nlegally bound by their charters to ignore the long term health and profitability of the or companies to give current shareholders the greatest profit possible. Hence Goldman Sachs and Bear Stearns running themselves into the ground KNOWINGLY for short term profit. Doesn't hurt knowing you own the govt, and they will have to bail you out.

cp3iverson

Would the cost of living go up with people getting such a big raise? Im imagining a happy meal will jump in price just like everything else. The minimum wage folks would still face similar issues. Again I have no horse in this race im just trying to figure out both sides.

rgambs

cp3iverson said:

Would the cost of living go up with people getting such a big raise? Im imagining a happy meal will jump in price just like everything else. The minimum wage folks would still face similar issues. Again I have no horse in this race im just trying to figure out both sides.

It may happen that way, but not the price of cars, houses, bread, milk, eggs, gasoline, rent, most of our consumables aren't that closely tied to minimum wage. Prices go up anyways, min wage is always behind, trying to catch up. It's been raised before and the sky didn't fall like some predicted it would.

Jason P

rgambs said:

Jason P said:

rgambs said:

Jason P said:

Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

That's just not true. They wouldn't leave a union shop and lose their health benefits, or a non-union shop that is full time either. Fast food joints don't hire many, if any, full time employees, because they aren't providing health insurance. That predates Obamacare.

I don't work at a union plant. Although the pay is good and the benifit package is great, people would certainly be looking for part-time burger flipping jobs for $15/hr. Easy money.

There aren't many people getting second jobs in addition to factory work nowadays. If you aren't on forced 12's yet, count your blessings and get yourself prepared, it is the new standard in manufacturing, coming soon to a factory near you. I have done fast food, and I have done a few different factory jobs, easy money it is not. Hot, sweaty, stinky, disrespected, sound familiar? Awful similar to a factory job, plus the added benefit of dealing with a public who seems to think of you as nearly subhuman. This board shows the contempt, lazy assholes can't cook for themselves but want to feel superior to their "burger flipper" or "fry guy"

12's give you 182 days off per year versus 91 days off for working traditional 8 hr shifts for the same hours worked. Some see a benefit it that extra free time. Some don't and prefer a traditional week, but I'm not feeling sorry for someone that gets twice as many days off then I do.

callen

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Why stop there? Let's pay them $100/hr.

Okay fine. Let's pay them $2/hr.

Here's a novel concept: instead of minimum wages... how about a maximum wage? Does anybody really need a private island? Establish tiers where CEOs and the various levels of management still make very attractive salaries, but the lowest tiers earn enough to have some money that could offer them a better life than minimum wage work, bus passes, and television.

That being said... imagine if we did increase the purchasing power of everyone in N. America. Think of the consumption patterns now and compare our current reality to what would happen with more equally distributed wealth.

But see at $2/hr that company would fold because nobody would work for them. This is the game that gets played when government gets in the way and fixes wages.


The companies laugh all the way to the bank because they are by law meeting their obligation.

Now eliminate mandatory wages and the market will work because the people can hold out. By fixing a minimum wage the employee loses negotiation power.

Businesses are smart. If we removed minimum wages your right, no one would go down to 2 bucks an hour. But businesses pay as little as possible to keep turnover manageable. Problem is still not enough to make survivable income. So a little boost is good thing.

Also we talk about crime. Well when low wage parents work two jobs they spend little time with their kids. And the kids see illegal means of making a living.


And we're essentially subsidizing companies like Walmart and Mcdona.

cp3iverson said:

Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

There would likely be a shift for many low paying jobs but the bottom would get a more equitable wage which would help this country.

There will likely be inflation caused by this but very little.

It's the right thing to do. Not sure if 15 is the right number though.

unsung

cp3iverson said:

Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

What about a Private in the Army that would make less than a burger flipper?

callen

unsung said:

cp3iverson said:

Honest question. If someone makes $9 an hour cooking fries at Wendys and more skilled office work is paying $13 an hour what happens if minimum wage gets bumped to 15? I think everyone that was making more than the fast food people but making less than 15 still wants to make more than the guy cooking fries.

Just like the college educated teacher making 20 an hour somewhere doesnt want to barely make more than the 16 year old fry cook that they teach Algebra to. Or the office worker who got bumped to 17 an hour. And so on and so on. And if everyone gets raises down the line what gets solved?

Beats me. This is why i usually go through life ignoring politics. LOL

What about a Private in the Army that would make less than a burger flipper?

Total pay/benefits much higher for private. And it's like being an intern. Doubt a person will change their mind and flip burgers versus joining.

EdsonNascimento

Jason P said:

Half of the people at the plant I'm working at would quit to go work at Burger King if they got $15 / hr.

I have a feeling that most protesting workers would find themselves to be unqualified if pay was raised to $15 / hr.

This is the REAL debate. No need to take Jason literally either. The point is - if you raise wages on simple jobs, folks will make different job decisions. We can debate forever what that threshold is. It's also different for different people. Hell, if I could make slightly less money than I do now with a shorter commute, no P&L responsibility, so on and so forth, I'd go for it. I'm well out of the fast food market, but the point is - raise wages you attract different people. You also raise prices, etc. So, some folks that are fighting lose jobs. It's not so simple. Like most thinks liberals tend to favor - there are repercussions beyond just "giving stuff away."

I am not saying they can't and shouldn't make more. But, most of the pro arguments in this thread are for the most part specious at best.

Think true opportunity cost and people acting in their own best interests and you'll be on the right track as to how most economic issues work in the simplest way possible.