Fast Food Workers Protesting.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDQQFjAE&url=http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-fast-food-protest-chicago-20140904-story.html&ei=hCALVNKPCMr2yQS9vIHoAQ&usg=AFQjCNHPglOrh5wzmbn8Q6yS68NF_TReEg&bvm=bv.74649129,d.aWw

So whats your opinion?
Are these workers out of line DEMANDING $15 an hour?
Should one expect to raise a family and own a home by making a career of flipping burgers?

rgambs

One should expect it to an equal amount of how much one should expect to make billions selling them.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

rgambs said:

One should expect it to an equal amount of how much one should expect to make billions selling them.

Im sorry, but you kind of lost me there.
Are you saying because these fast food joints make billions, they should indeed pay their employees a much higher wage, compared to what these individuals are making now?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

rgambs said:

One should expect it to an equal amount of how much one should expect to make billions selling them.

Im sorry, but you kind of lost me there.
Are you saying because these fast food joints make billions, they should indeed pay their employees a much higher wage, compared to what these individuals are making now?

I would say that wouldn't be a horrible thing.

rgambs

I'm saying it is at least as outrageous for a person to expect to make millions and billions from selling burgers as it is outrageous for a person to expect to make a decent wage making these burgers. Capital vs. Labor, it's a tired old debate.

unsung

rgambs

Yes, put machines in, and outsource the phone lines to India. America will be so strong when the people have empty pockets and multinational corps have all the money.

unsung

Minimum wage jobs exist because the workers have minimum skills. They aren't intended to be careers.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Minimum wage jobs exist because the workers have minimum skills. They aren't intended to be careers.

But on one hand you speak of crime rates- linked to poverty- and then here you seem to be suggesting people that do not have 'aptitude' deserve a low wage.

If we paid them more... perhaps we wouldn't have to worry about them holding us up?

rgambs

First off, do the friggen math, 15/hr part time is less than 20,000 a year, hardly a career. And second, minimum skills? That's a heavy judgement right there, how condescending are you? I've worked min wage and I have done surgery on folks whose lives hung in the balance. I've helped build homes and lives, come down off your high horse for a minute jeez. Many min wagers are college educated, perhaps if the wage was 15$ we could get out from under the massive student loan problem we have. I'll keep dreaming of a strong america you can keep pandering to the corps.

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Minimum wage jobs exist because the workers have minimum skills. They aren't intended to be careers.

But on one hand you speak of crime rates- linked to poverty- and then here you seem to be suggesting people that do not have 'aptitude' deserve a low wage.

If we paid them more... perhaps we wouldn't have to worry about them holding us up?

They are going about it wrong. They should be demanding that the federal reserve stop devaluing the dollar. But that would require some additional thinking on their part.

unsung

rgambs said:

First off, do the friggen math, 15/hr part time is less than 20,000 a year, hardly a career. And second, minimum skills? That's a heavy judgement right there, how condescending are you? I've worked min wage and I have done surgery on folks whose lives hung in the balance. I've helped build homes and lives, come down off your high horse for a minute jeez. Many min wagers are college educated, perhaps if the wage was 15$ we could get out from under the massive student loan problem we have. I'll keep dreaming of a strong america you can keep pandering to the corps.

Yep, min skills.

You are talking about doing work with skills.

Flipping burgers, washing dishes, mopping the floor, etc. not very high in the skill dept.


As far as the college loans, you are looking at it from the completely wrong angle.

rgambs

Yes the job is low skills required, but that doesn't mean the folks doing it don't have skills. I won't argue against some student loan reform, but better wages are better for everyone.

unsung

rgambs said:

One should expect it to an equal amount of how much one should expect to make billions selling them.

So the mom & pop small town grocery store or ice creamery that has six employees makes billions?

All this would do is put them out of business.

Now you have six unemployed who then are added to the unemployment numbers and welfare lines and businesses that managed to stay open through depressions and wars closing down. But yay more Wal-Marts!!!

lukin2006

No problem with a higher a minimum wage myself ... the sad part is those who want minimum wage kept lower have no problem keeping the burden off the multi national corps to ensure their employees have a living wage and putting it directly on the middle class tax payer ... because my guess is that many low income earners are accessing geared to income housing, food stamps/welfare/income supplements, foods banks and probably pay either 0 tax or next to nothing in tax and this all cost YOU the taxpayer. So given the choice of paying a few cents more for a burger or paying more in taxes to support lower income people I would rather pay more for the burger, at least it's then my choice.

Last-12-Exit

Fuck it. Pay them their $15/hr. Happy meals jump to $13 each and I don't have to take my kid there anymore.

unsung

Why stop there? Let's pay them $100/hr.

chadwick

what do the ceos of mcdonalds, burger king, wendy's, taco bell, taco john's & jack in the box make per year, this includes their over inflated fat ass bonuses? how fucking difficult can it be to be a ceo of half assed burger town?

i have zero training in a office cubical, i have zero training wearing a frumpy suit or goofy fucking slippery looking black florsheims, it's all been charted & crafter out through the years. a one armed gorilla or myself could be ceo of mcdonalds by bullshitting everyone & having everyone under us do the work they're already doing.

the one armed gorilla or myself would require 19 million a year salary plus insane bonuses paid quarterly

rgambs

unsung said:

rgambs said:

One should expect it to an equal amount of how much one should expect to make billions selling them.

So the mom & pop small town grocery store or ice creamery that has six employees makes billions?

All this would do is put them out of business.

Now you have six unemployed who then are added to the unemployment numbers and welfare lines and businesses that managed to stay open through depressions and wars closing down. But yay more Wal-Marts!!!

The FLSA currently provides exemption for businesses grossing less than 500,000$. That pretty much covers your mom and pops! This is always pointed out in wage hike debates, but conservative outlets fail to give rebuttal. I would, as would most who support wage raises, be willing to accept further exemptions for number of employees. Say, under 20, and you do not need to meet the minimum. There are already exemptions for farmers, contractors, salespersons, and tipped employees, should there be additional exemptions needed I don't foresee any real opposition arising.

unsung

Well I don't eat fast food, mainly because it is garbage, but also because I don't trust them with my food. So, raise the price of a Big Mac to $11 to compensate. Good Luck.

There's small businesses that do $500k in sales, doesn't mean they are billionaires.

rgambs

unsung said:

Well I don't eat fast food, mainly because it is garbage, but also because I don't trust them with my food. So, raise the price of a Big Mac to $11 to compensate. Good Luck.

There's small businesses that do $500k in sales, doesn't mean they are billionaires.

It does mean they can afford decent wages. Doesn't have to be as high as 15/hr, that figure isn't right for all...but that figure sure as hell would still allow massive profitability from McD's and Walmart.

lukin2006

chadwick said:

what do the ceos of mcdonalds, burger king, wendy's, taco bell, taco john's & jack in the box make per year, this includes their over inflated fat ass bonuses? how fucking difficult can it be to be a ceo of half assed burger town?

i have zero training in a office cubical, i have zero training wearing a frumpy suit or goofy fucking slippery looking black florsheims, it's all been charted & crafter out through the years. a one armed gorilla or myself could be ceo of mcdonalds by bullshitting everyone & having everyone under us do the work they're already doing.

the one armed gorilla or myself would require 19 million a year salary plus insane bonuses paid quarterly

I agree 100%...

If you've ever watched an episode of undercover boss ... many of those ceo's struggle to do menial task (not my word ... but the choice of some on this board}, that says it all to me, pretty sure many of those same could work in those office pushing paper from one side of the desk to the other, surfing pearl jam message boards, checking Facebook, Instagram or whatever web site .. fact is many of these folks in lower paid jobs work for the whole shift at whatever ever task they are assigned to do. They work hard for their meagre wages ...

rgambs

lukin2006 said:

chadwick said:

what do the ceos of mcdonalds, burger king, wendy's, taco bell, taco john's & jack in the box make per year, this includes their over inflated fat ass bonuses? how fucking difficult can it be to be a ceo of half assed burger town?

i have zero training in a office cubical, i have zero training wearing a frumpy suit or goofy fucking slippery looking black florsheims, it's all been charted & crafter out through the years. a one armed gorilla or myself could be ceo of mcdonalds by bullshitting everyone & having everyone under us do the work they're already doing.

the one armed gorilla or myself would require 19 million a year salary plus insane bonuses paid quarterly

I agree 100%...

If you've ever watched an episode of undercover boss ... many of those ceo's struggle to do menial task (not my word ... but the choice of some on this board}, that says it all to me, pretty sure many of those same could work in those office pushing paper from one side of the desk to the other, surfing pearl jam message boards, checking Facebook, Instagram or whatever web site .. fact is many of these folks in lower paid jobs work for the whole shift at whatever ever task they are assigned to do. They work hard for their meagre wages ...

And as I said earlier, the capital vs labor debate is old as dirt. Neither can exist without the other, so there has to be a balance. Not an equality necessarily, that doesn't make sense, but a balance, and that balance has been shifting dangerously... Hence the government sold from under us and the financial collapses.

chadwick

lukin2006, thank you & thank you

"Twenty years ago, when Johnson first started at McDonald's, the CEO's compensation was about 230 times that of a full-time worker paid the federal minimum wage. The $8.75 million that Thompson's predecessor as CEO, Skinner, made last year was 580 times, according to data compiled by Bloomberg."

so in 20 years a ceo's salary at mcdonald's has rose 350 times from 230 to 580 times that of a full-time worker paid minimum wage.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-12/mcdonald-s-8-25-man-and-8-75-million-ceo-shows-pay-gap.html

"Johnson would need about a million hours of work -- or more than a century on the clock -- to earn the $8.75 million that McDonald’s, based in the Chicago suburb of Oak Brook, paid then-CEO Jim Skinner last year."

so 100 years on the clock to make what the ceo made in one

nicely done, greedyburgerclown

unsung

So like I said, pay the fry guy $100/hr. Then that CEO gap shrinks.

rgambs

unsung said:

So like I said, pay the fry guy $100/hr. Then that CEO gap shrinks.

Way to go adding lucid points to the debate! We all use reductio ad absurdum from time to time, it's hard not to, but is that your go to move?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Why stop there? Let's pay them $100/hr.

Okay fine. Let's pay them $2/hr.

Here's a novel concept: instead of minimum wages... how about a maximum wage? Does anybody really need a private island? Establish tiers where CEOs and the various levels of management still make very attractive salaries, but the lowest tiers earn enough to have some money that could offer them a better life than minimum wage work, bus passes, and television.

That being said... imagine if we did increase the purchasing power of everyone in N. America. Think of the consumption patterns now and compare our current reality to what would happen with more equally distributed wealth.

unsung

Ah, the ol' who really needs xxxx ploy.

unsung

rgambs said:

unsung said:

So like I said, pay the fry guy $100/hr. Then that CEO gap shrinks.

Way to go adding lucid points to the debate! We all use reductio ad absurdum from time to time, it's hard not to, but is that your go to move?

No more outrageous than paying a fry guy $15/hr.

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Why stop there? Let's pay them $100/hr.

Okay fine. Let's pay them $2/hr.

Here's a novel concept: instead of minimum wages... how about a maximum wage? Does anybody really need a private island? Establish tiers where CEOs and the various levels of management still make very attractive salaries, but the lowest tiers earn enough to have some money that could offer them a better life than minimum wage work, bus passes, and television.

That being said... imagine if we did increase the purchasing power of everyone in N. America. Think of the consumption patterns now and compare our current reality to what would happen with more equally distributed wealth.

But see at $2/hr that company would fold because nobody would work for them. This is the game that gets played when government gets in the way and fixes wages.


The companies laugh all the way to the bank because they are by law meeting their obligation.

Now eliminate mandatory wages and the market will work because the people can hold out. By fixing a minimum wage the employee loses negotiation power.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

That hasn't worked so well in other countries that are de-regulated. You do know this right?