Michael Brown Shooting

Gern Blansten

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Gern Blansten said:

JC29856 said:

The more i hear about the physical evidence corroborating Wilson's story the more i wonder if the evidence was leaked to Wilson and his attorneys by other cops or by the union rep during the 5 weeks leading up to his gj testimony.
Besides botching the case at every turn we know the ferguson pd lies repeatedly and rapes pregnant women, not a stretch for them to leak details.

Wilson knew that he just needed to convince the grand jury that he feared for his life and was being attacked by a "demon." That he was called by the prosecutor to testify is what seems really strange to me. The prosecutor did not want a trial.

He didn't want a trial because he knew there wasnt any evidence for a conviction.

So that is a point of contention....many believe that he didn't want to let a jury hear all of the evidence and go through a formal trial to protect the cop.

Remember that we don't know what the grand jury vote was. There could have been 8 of the 12 vote to indict and it still wouldn't have been enough....needed 9

Also remember that reading the grand jury testimony is kind of misleading when there are no opposing questions being asked.

You've said several times that it could have been an 8 out of 12 vote. Why? It also could have been a 12-0 vote. The fact of the matter is that there isn't enough evidence for a murder conviction here. The prosecutor knew that. The only reason this went to a GJ was to please the public.

If it was 12-0 they would have indicted him. They needed 9 of the 12 to vote to indict. At 9-3 they indict...at 8-4 they don't...that was my point.

How could you honestly say that if the grand jury voted 8-4 and resulted in no indictment that justice was done?

We don't know the vote....I agree that it could have been 3-9 or 0-12

JC29856

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The officer "tried to thrust his door open but we were so close to it that it ricocheted off us and it bounced back to him."

and...

The officer "reached his arm out the window and grabbed my friend around his neck" (and tried to pull him into the car).

These don't seem plausible.

Why not?

JC29856

JimmyV said:

Can we all agree that listening to that guy's Skype convo is something we wish we hadn't done?

Hilarious!

JC29856

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

My point to this was that 1) it's looking like, to me, that the eyewitness accounts could be wrong because Brown did not have his hands up and 2) he was not shot in the back.

As far as where his body was, I don't know. As reported in the CNN.com article, Wilson will have to answer for the shots fired after the initial shots that were at close range when Brown was reaching for his.gun.

If you are not going to explain how you can call Brown an 18 year old boy, please stop referring to him as such.

His body was 35 feet from the vehicle. What does that tell you?

Do you have kids? My son is now 21 but at 18 he was still 6'2". Size doesn't matter. At 18 were you magically a responsible adult?

Size does matter. Ask the clerk of the convenience store Brown robbed if they thought Brown was a 'boy' or a 'behemoth'.

And 18, as young as it is compared to 40, doesn't give you a free pass to rob stores, act belligerent, and provoke physical altercations with police.

It wasn't age as much as stupidity that got Brown into the problems he created for himself. My 13 year old knows better and likely knew better at age 6.

None of what you have described gets you a death sentence in the USA. Unless of course you are black and a resident of Ferguson.

Tru dat!

JC29856

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

My point to this was that 1) it's looking like, to me, that the eyewitness accounts could be wrong because Brown did not have his hands up and 2) he was not shot in the back.

As far as where his body was, I don't know. As reported in the CNN.com article, Wilson will have to answer for the shots fired after the initial shots that were at close range when Brown was reaching for his.gun.

If you are not going to explain how you can call Brown an 18 year old boy, please stop referring to him as such.

His body was 35 feet from the vehicle. What does that tell you?

Do you have kids? My son is now 21 but at 18 he was still 6'2". Size doesn't matter. At 18 were you magically a responsible adult?

Size does matter. Ask the clerk of the convenience store Brown robbed if they thought Brown was a 'boy' or a 'behemoth'.

And 18, as young as it is compared to 40, doesn't give you a free pass to rob stores, act belligerent, and provoke physical altercations with police.

It wasn't age as much as stupidity that got Brown into the problems he created for himself. My 13 year old knows better and likely knew better at age 6.

None of what you have described gets you a death sentence in the USA. Unless of course you are black and a resident of Ferguson.

He never got a death sentence (at least we don't 'officially' know that yet). He got killed in a fight. There's a difference.

Fight? Where?

JC29856

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/

(CNN) -- Two men, shocked at what they saw, describe an unarmed teenager with his hands up in the air as he's gunned down by a police officer.
They were contractors doing construction work in Ferguson, Missouri, on the day Michael Brown was killed.
And the men, who asked not to be identified after CNN contacted them, said they were about 50 feet away from Officer Darren Wilson when he opened fire.
An exclusive video captures their reactions during the moments just after the shooting.
"He had his f**n hands up," one of the men says in the video.
Intense clashes during Ferguson protest Protests disrupt Ferguson town meeting
Photos: Ferguson council meeting Photos: Ferguson council meeting
The man told CNN he heard one gunshot, then another shot about 30 seconds later.
"The cop didn't say get on the ground. He just kept shooting," the man said.
That same witness described the gruesome scene, saying he saw Brown's "brains come out of his head," again stating, "his hands were up."
The video shows the man raising his arms in the air -- just as, he says, Brown was doing when he was shot.
The other contractor told CNN he saw Brown running away from a police car.
Brown "put his hands up," the construction worker said, and "the officer was chasing him."
The contractor says he saw Wilson fire a shot at Brown while his back was turned.
The men said they didn't see how the confrontation started.
Police arrest Michael Brown protesters near interstate
Other witnesses also said teen's arms were raised
An attorney for the man who filmed the video says it was recorded 40 seconds after the shooting.
The video gives new insight into the case, which has spurred a Justice Department investigation, national debate and protests over authorities' handling of the case.
The construction workers said they don't live in Ferguson and don't know the Brown family, but their account squares with accounts from several other witnesses of the unarmed African-American teen's shooting death on August 9.
Some witnesses say the teenager assaulted the white officer at the outset and tried to grab his gun; other witnesses say Wilson was the aggressor.
A private autopsy conducted for the Brown family showed that Brown had been shot at least six times, including twice in the head.
A grand jury is hearing the case and will determine whether Wilson will face any charges.
Protesters were near Interstate 70 and outside the police headquarters Wednesday, pushing for Gov. Jay Nixon to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Brown's death.
Analysts debate video's impact
CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin says the video could play an important role in the case.
"You have practically in real time someone discussing what they saw, and that's just good evidence," he said on CNN's "AC360."
Sunny Hostin, a CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, says it's important to note that several witnesses are telling the same story.
"They're saying that he was running from the police officer and that his hands were up," she said. "I don't know what other witness testimony at this point or account we have to hear. The bottom line is having your hands up is the universal sign for surrender."
Neil Bruntrager, general counsel for the St. Louis Police Officers Association, cautioned against rushing to judgment. Witness accounts are important, he said, but need to be evaluated with all the evidence.
"I'm not saying disregard them. I'm saying that we will judge their credibility by all of the evidence, not by one statement, and certainly not by a 15-second video clip," he said.

I don't discount that it is possible that Brown was grabbing for his gun....I just don't find it likely.

Regardless....the "young adult" was running away from the officer without a weapon and he was killed for that. Judge/Jury/Executioner

shouldn't it say 'young thief who was in a struggle with a police office was killed because of that?' you grab for a cops gun you are going down. not hard to understand i would think...but clearly some people still don't get it.

Where are the dna and fingerprints on the gun?

Gern Blansten

https://youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs

JC29856

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

Last-12-Exit said:

My point to this was that 1) it's looking like, to me, that the eyewitness accounts could be wrong because Brown did not have his hands up and 2) he was not shot in the back.

As far as where his body was, I don't know. As reported in the CNN.com article, Wilson will have to answer for the shots fired after the initial shots that were at close range when Brown was reaching for his.gun.

If you are not going to explain how you can call Brown an 18 year old boy, please stop referring to him as such.

His body was 35 feet from the vehicle. What does that tell you?

Do you have kids? My son is now 21 but at 18 he was still 6'2". Size doesn't matter. At 18 were you magically a responsible adult?

Size does matter. Ask the clerk of the convenience store Brown robbed if they thought Brown was a 'boy' or a 'behemoth'.

And 18, as young as it is compared to 40, doesn't give you a free pass to rob stores, act belligerent, and provoke physical altercations with police.

It wasn't age as much as stupidity that got Brown into the problems he created for himself. My 13 year old knows better and likely knew better at age 6.

None of what you have described gets you a death sentence in the USA. Unless of course you are black and a resident of Ferguson.

He never got a death sentence (at least we don't 'officially' know that yet). He got killed in a fight. There's a difference.

A fight that went down 35 feet from the car....one guy with a gun, one guy with nothing. Got it.

it didn't go down 35 feet from the car but it ended 35 feet from the car. brown was a big kid but i don't think had a 35 foot reach to try and take the cops gun. keep believing your own version as opposed to the facts.

140 feet from the suv

Gern Blansten

..

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

There was gunshit residue on Brown's hand. That means that Brown was at least 18 inches away from the gun. Not 35 feet.

I don't recall reading of gunshot residue on Brown in any of the testimony or reports?

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

Those eyewitnesses you are counting on so much have been proven wrong. Those eyewitness accounts of brown surrendering with his hands in the air when he was shot are not accurate. How much more faith are you going put in them?

Didn't most of the eyewitnesses say Brown's hands were in the air?

JC29856

Staceb10 said:

Eyewitness accounts are largely unreliable. This "hands up" things is the entire slogan for the so-called protests i.e. looting and rioting. The forensic evidence doesn't show that he had his hands in the air in surrender which will outweigh eyewitness accounts.

apa.org/monitor/apr06/eyewitness.aspx

scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

cbsnews.com/news/eyewitness-how-accurate-is-visual-memory/

innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php

Most witnesses said hands were up.

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

Staceb10 said:

Eyewitness accounts are largely unreliable. This "hands up" things is the entire slogan for the so-called protests i.e. looting and rioting. The forensic evidence doesn't show that he had his hands in the air in surrender which will outweigh eyewitness accounts.

apa.org/monitor/apr06/eyewitness.aspx

scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

cbsnews.com/news/eyewitness-how-accurate-is-visual-memory/

innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php

This point will largely be ignored. Reminds me of 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

16 witnesses conspired.

JC29856

Jason P said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Jason P said:

Again, the Barney Fife rule should be employed. One bullet in the shirt pocket.

Cops are for the most part the D-student linebacker from your high school that flunked out of community college.

This is correct in many cases.

Again, I'd point out the fact that in Canada, the RCMP used to be one of the best jobs a person could get in terms of wage, benefits, pension, and respect. The wait list was years and screening was thorough- only the most appropriate people ended up with a badge.

Now... people can have a better living and not have to worry about getting killed on the job by mopping floors at the various mines pimped out by our country to international companies.

What am I saying if it's not obvious? You can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit. If people wish for exceptional police forces... then they should be prepared to pay for them. There is a highly unrealistic attitude from some on these boards that think cops should take their little salaries and feel very happy about that.

In developed countries, any job that places a person's life on the line is richly compensated, otherwise people do not assume the inherent risk- they need to be motivated. So... where I agree with you, Jason, is around the notion that 'some' people entering the police force are motivated by things other than salaries and benefits- such as power. This group would in my unqualified estimation be the minority, however we are seeing this minority and their unqualified aptitude in our monthly Youtube clips, headlines, and this forum.

I'm not making an excuse for any brutal cop behaviours, but its not a stretch to expect poor results when your force is comprised of poor candidates better suited for other professions.

The simple of notion of "Serve and Protect" has been replaced by "Stand Down, Motherfucker!"

I'm not sure if better pay is the issue. It's more the culture that they train. Citizens are viewed more as the enemy during interaction. If McDonalds can train people to be nice for $7 an hour, the police force should be able to do the same.

The fact that these fuckwads opened fire on a dude like it was a carnival game and received no discipline speaks volumes. They probably got paid while suspended and the taxpayers had to write someone a big paycheck because of these idiots.

Good stuff!

JC29856

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:

Brown threatened the officer and the officer over reacted and shot him. Both at fault. The officer should be removed from force and pay restitution and year in jail for his mis judgement. Feel Wilson at one point during incident felt his life was in jeopardy and though it then deescalated understand his heightened emotional state. Brown rolled the dice fkn with a cop and lost.

I doubt he serves a day in jail.

Correctomondo!

JC29856

Godfather. said:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/17/us/ferguson-state-of-emergency/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

prepare to be lutted,robbed,raped and beat to death if the white guy walks...sounds horrible I know but in my opinion that's why this case is so out of control and the media can't wait to fuel the fire.

Godfather.

GF was 1 for 3...I'm counting lutting and robbing as the same thing

JC29856

Godfather. said:

Muslim groups have stepped up efforts to co-opt protests over the fatal shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., with a drive to equate the teen’s death to the death of a radical Islamist shot during an FBI raid in 2009, a Washington-based security watchdog group is warning.

Using social media, conference calling and traditional outreach methods, leaders of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) are portraying Brown and Detroit mosque leader Imam Luqman Ameen Abdullah as African-American victims of police targeting, according to the Washington-based Center for Security Policy (CSP). In a conference call organized by CAIR-linked "Muslims for Ferguson, a CAIR official called Abdullah a “Shaheed,” or martyr, and said both he and Brown were victims of a national security apparatus that had “completely gone wild” and engaged in “demonizing and criminalizing Muslims.”

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“The reality is that this country, in law enforcement, be it local, state or federal law enforcement, people with guns have always seen black men and black people as threats,” Dawud Walid, executive director of CAIR’s Michigan Chapter, told the some 100 protest organizers on the call, made on the five-year anniversary of Abdullah's death and which was monitored by CSP.

Walid claimed Brown was a Muslim, although when pressed, Walid denied he had made such a claim. Brown was buried in August after a memorial service at the Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist Church in St. Louis.

“They’re interested in building coalitions with other organizations in order to effect a legislative change to weaken anti-terrorism laws and weaken the ability of law enforcement to engage in counter terrorism.”
- Kyle Shideler, Center for security Policy

Linking Brown and Abdullah, who federal prosecutors say was a separatist intent on overthrowing the U.S. government, is part of a wider effort to co-opt minority group support for causes they promote, according to Kyle Shideler, director of CSP’s Threat Information Office. One such cause is to reduce police scrutiny of the American Muslim community in terror-related matters.

“They’re interested in building coalitions with other organizations in order to effect a legislative change to weaken anti-terrorism laws and weaken the ability of law enforcement to engage in counterterrorism,” said Shideler. “And they’re trying to bring other people into their efforts so it doesn’t look like it is just a Muslim effort.”

“By hosting the conference call,” Shideler wrote, the campaign is “fulfilling the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America to be positioned as the leadership of a broad coalition seeking to target law enforcement under the camouflage of civil rights.”

Where were all the Muslims?

JC29856

gimmesometruth27 said:

the national guard is here. they were at my work today. my work has been listed as potential target for rioting. we are a hospital, so i don't know what these protesters could gain by protesting us...if anything, we are the ones who will help them when the cops beat them.

Was the hospital guarded targeted?

JC29856

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

muskydan said:

JC29856 said:

muskydan said:

You want answers? Well thats way above my pay grade JC. But please continue with yours.
I may share some thoughts, not answers with you if GOD forbid they burn their whole town down.

continue with my answers? where/what are my answers?

are you less interested in truth and more interested in "riots" and "burning towns"?
i guess there hasn't been as much rioting and burning in the 101 days as some may have hoped and wished for.... maybe after the non indictment you will get the opportunity to offer your profound thoughts. i waiting with baited breath!

"Less interested in truth " …..thats priceless. Perhaps I will offer my profound thoughts if I have enough energy after the Grand jury makes its decision. Its already been a exhausting day in half for many first responders in my town.

In what way? Are people rioting?

Not yet, Just about at the end of my second day of standing around protecting the hand full of protesters for double time. Talk about a colossal waste of tax payer $$$.

Does sound like a waste, what do the protesters need protected from anyways? Other protesters?

Yes, other protesters and the big thing Now are vehicles. Most of these people aren't that bright and they try to overtake the streets downtown. So we have to block intersections so none of these future leaders of our country get themselves run over by a truck. The Black Bloc has not showed up yet, but when they do it will be quite interesting.

Black Bloc make things interesting? How so?

JC29856

muskydan said:

rgambs said:

muskydan said:

JC29856 said:

Im going to make a prediction or two...since i don't have the luxury of being omnipresent and cannot see everything with my own eyes, i have to rely on various media outlets and then form my own opinions.
Predictions
Wilson will not be indicted (shocker)
Some on this board will describe the aftermath, what they have seen with their own eyes, some examples could be...bad black men running around with knives and guns shooting cops and first responders, Arabs running around with bombs and backpacks.....

You might want to just stick with the facts and not fantacy... Stick with the truth...all I want is the truth.

This statement would have more clout if you hadn't been making predictions yourself. You told us to keep our guns loaded and at the ready. Is that the truth or is it fantasy? Time will tell if it is an accurate prediction, but it isn't fact if that's what you mean by truth.

Trust me, I don't live in fantasy land, but I wish I did sometimes. That is a sad truth for me and many in my F-up town . As I said on here before I sure hope there are no significant incidents but with Intel we are getting that the Black bloc and other anarchists showing up, it's very likely some protesters may not be simply protesting. Well shall see...I would suggest if Anybody feels very passionate about this whole incident to go join a protest so you can see for yourself the behavior of some. It maybe shocking or you may feel right at home. Either way, God Bless the USA!!!! And the best live band in the world...

Besides some looters i think most were simply protesting, no Arabs blowing shit up and no Black Blocs shooting first responders.