Did they ever issue a disclaimer about missing songs on any prior releases? Orpheum? DITP? Bootlegs? Seems silly to get all riled up over it. Opinion. Don't flame me over it.
Back in the day of unofficial boots, there were two issues when potentially paying $50 or more for a double disc set: (1) how's the sound quality and (2) is the show complete? The whole point of the band's decision to start making official boots to fans was to provide (1) a good quality show that (2) is complete. With the vault releases, the second part has gone completely out the window and we're left to guess once again whether or not we're getting a complete show.
I guess you're right, we should just assume that everything from this point on will be incomplete, so we need to choose between an audience bootleg (sound quality has gotten much better over the years) that is complete (and free), or an excellent sound quality official bootleg that is incomplete (and not free).
I've seen some threads get closed in this very forum because they linked to audience bootlegs. The reasoning given was that the official bootlegs offered unmatched sound quality. I hope this practice ceases because some people might think completeness is more important than quality.
It's true. I just compared the broadcast version to the audience recording and Dead Man on the broadcast version is indeed incomplete. It's there until the "hallways are all mocking me" and then his vocals cut out.
My copy cuts off for me @ "The hallways are all mocking me. What I've become .." @ the 3:15 mark.
The SiriusXM Broadcast of Dean Man is 3:46 total running time while the DSM6 audience recording source is 5:02 total running time.
I still would of put that 3:46 SBD track on the vinyl record instead of not cutting the song out completely from the set. The edit of Dead Man played on SiriusXM broadcast ran smoothly into MFC.
Wish they kept it and just mentioned in the notes that there were technical problems on the track. Here's what was saved for your pleasure. Something rather then nothing at all.
If Josh's assumption is wrong, that implies the song was never going to be included, so why can't whoever makes these decisions for the 10C just be up front about it? People would still buy it, and you'd avoid the disappointment now. Everyone wins (minus the people who really like Dead Man, of course).
I think Santos was talking about paulonious' post not all assumptions from everyone in the whole thread.
Regardless, I see you point though. It would have been nice to know up front but oh well. I still look forward to getting my copy.
Ah yes, you're probably correct. Agree also that's this vinyl is still very worth being excited about.
It's true. I just compared the broadcast version to the audience recording and Dead Man on the broadcast version is indeed incomplete. It's there until the "hallways are all mocking me" and then his vocals cut out.
My copy cuts off for me @ "The hallways are all mocking me. What I've become .." @ the 3:15 mark.
The SiriusXM Broadcast of Dean Man is 3:46 total running time while the DSM6 audience recording source is 5:02 total running time.
I still would of put that 3:46 SBD track on the vinyl record instead of not cutting the song out completely from the set. The edit of Dead Man played on SiriusXM broadcast ran smoothly into MFC.
Wish they kept it and just mentioned in the notes that there were technical problems on the track. Here's what was saved for your pleasure. Something rather then nothing at all.
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
Everything in this post is true.
2000: Manchester
2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes 2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
so you didnt even buy this and you are complaining that an incomplete version of dead man isnt included? lol
this band releases nearly EVERY live performance for our consumption and enjoyment over the last 15 years, more than anyone in the modern history of fucking music, and people still want to complain over little shit like this, it really is amazing to me
i know there are a lot of people around here that only listen to PJ for some reason, but the grateful dead have released an endless number of live albums that have incomplete setlists for various reasons, so it is not like pearl jam are the first band to not have a fully perfect recording of a show they are putting out
i bought this, actually it was a gift from my amazing gf, and i have zero issue that dead man is not included... it is just a rock band folks... i do not expect perfection
bottom line = shit happens, get over it, it's only rock and roll
I think we can share our opinions openly here without the spin don't you think? If people are upset, then they are upset, no matter what anyone else thinks. Having a forum to express that sentiment is always alright as long as it doesn't get childish and silly.
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
that is overly simplified if you ask me... lets break it down a little deeper...
No Code/Yield reissues (96-98) are clearly in the band's upcoming plans and Vault #3 was DC 1998, so obviously you would not want to "Vault" release anything from that era right now
Vs/Vitalogy reissue (93-95) already happened with the 1994 Orpheum show being a part of that release, so that meas you probably dont want to do another Vault relase from that era yet...
Ten reissue (90-92) already happened with the 1992 Drop in the Park show being a part of that package, and Vault #1 was the 1992 Moore Theater show so i dont think they want to do a Vault release from that era for quite a while...
so i assume that pretty much eliminates doing anything from the 90's for THIS particular vault release...
Vault #2 was The Vic 2007 so that tell's me you dont want to release anything after 2006 as a vault release for a while... not to mention 99% of those shows have been released and are WAY too recent to release as a "Vault" release at this time in my opinion
so that leaves 2000-2005 for Vault #4... 99% of the 2000 tour has been released... 99% of the 2003 tour has been released... 99% of the 2005 tour was released... which leaves them to choose from a handful of shows for Vault #4...
2000 - 2 shows - the Mt Baker show and Vancouver 2001 - 1 show - Groundwork (10 song set which makes it no-go) 2002 - 5 shows - 9/23/02 opening for The Who (another 10 song set) and 4 shows from that December which is already reperesented via the 12/6/02 Showbox DVD 2003 - 0 shows - i think every single show was released 2004 - 9 shows - entire 2004 VFC tour is available 2005 - 1 show - HOB Katrina Benefit (Robert Plant performs with them for the entire last encore so i assume that makes that a total no-go)
so really that leaves them with the two 2000 shows and nine 2004 VFC shows (really it should be 8 since i was at Asheville and Ed was sick and they only played 21 songs)...
so with all that being said, they really had about 10 shows to choose from, 2 of them were back-to-back shows in 2000 and 8 of them are all the VFC tour... i would love anything from the VFC tour and i am sure that will happen evenutally... this time they chose to release an "epic" and "legendary" club show that opened the 2000 world tour with the debut of almost the entire Binuaral album...
seem so bad now? what would you release? another early 90's show?
i personally think they nailed this release and dont give a shit if it doesnt have dead man on it... but again i dont expect perfection out of a rock band
Post edited by my2hands on
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WhatYouTaughtMe
I have no idea what's going on right now! Posts: 4,957
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
that is overly simplified if you ask me... lets break it down a little deeper...
No Code/Yield reissues (96-98) are clearly in the band's upcoming plans so obviously you would not want to release anything from that era right now, assuming live material will be a part of those reissues...
Vs/Vitalogy reissue (93-95) already happened with the 1994 Orpheum show being a part of that release, so that meas you probably dont want to do another Vault relase from that era yet...
Ten reissue (90-92) already happened with the 1992 Drop in the Park show being a part of that package, and Vault #1 was the 1992 Moore Theater show so i dont think they want to do a Vault release from that era for quite a while...
so to me that pretty much eliminates doing anything from the 90's for THIS particular vault release...
Vault #2 was The Vic 2007 so that tell's me you dont want to release anything after 2006 as a vault release for a while... not to mention 99% of those shows have been released and are WAY too recent to release as a "Vault" release at this time in my opinion
so that leaves 2000-2005 for Vault #4... 99% of the 2000 tour has been released... 99% of the 2003 tour has been released... 99% of the 2005 tour was released... which leaves them to choose from a handful of shows for Vault #4...
2000 - 2 shows - the Mt Baker show and Vancouver 2001 - 1 show - Groundwork (10 song set which makes it no-go) 2002 - 5 shows - 9/23/02 opening for The Who (another 10 song set) and 4 shows from that December which is already reperesented via the 12/6/02 Showbox DVD 2003 - 0 shows - i think every single show was released 2004 - 9 shows - entire 2004 VFC tour is available 2005 - 1 show - HOB Katrina Benefit (Robert Plant performs with them for the entire last encore so i assume that makes that a total no-go
really that leaves them with the 2 Mt Baker shows and 9 2004 VFC shows (really it should be 8 since i was at Asheville and Ed was sick and they only played 21 songs)...
so with all that being said, they really had about 10 shows to choose from, 2 of them were back-to-back shows in 2000 and 8 of them are all the VFC tour... i would love anything from the VFC tour and i am sure that will happen evenutally... this time they chose to release an "epic" and "legendary" club show that opened the 2000 world tour with the debut of almost the entire Binuaral album...
seem so bad now? what would you release? another early 90's show?
i personally think they nailed this release and dont give a shit if it doesnt have dead man on it... but again i dont expect perfection out of a rock band
2003 Santa Barbara Bowl wasn't released. I would love to have that officially released but you are right, they have very limited options from 2000 on. Although, the show with Robert Plant would also be awesome.
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
that is overly simplified if you ask me... lets break it down a little deeper...
No Code/Yield reissues (96-98) are clearly in the band's upcoming plans and Vault #3 was DC 1998, so obviously you would not want to "Vault" release anything from that era right now
Vs/Vitalogy reissue (93-95) already happened with the 1994 Orpheum show being a part of that release, so that meas you probably dont want to do another Vault relase from that era yet...
Ten reissue (90-92) already happened with the 1992 Drop in the Park show being a part of that package, and Vault #1 was the 1992 Moore Theater show so i dont think they want to do a Vault release from that era for quite a while...
so i assume that pretty much eliminates doing anything from the 90's for THIS particular vault release...
Vault #2 was The Vic 2007 so that tell's me you dont want to release anything after 2006 as a vault release for a while... not to mention 99% of those shows have been released and are WAY too recent to release as a "Vault" release at this time in my opinion
so that leaves 2000-2005 for Vault #4... 99% of the 2000 tour has been released... 99% of the 2003 tour has been released... 99% of the 2005 tour was released... which leaves them to choose from a handful of shows for Vault #4...
2000 - 2 shows - the Mt Baker show and Vancouver 2001 - 1 show - Groundwork (10 song set which makes it no-go) 2002 - 5 shows - 9/23/02 opening for The Who (another 10 song set) and 4 shows from that December which is already reperesented via the 12/6/02 Showbox DVD 2003 - 0 shows - i think every single show was released 2004 - 9 shows - entire 2004 VFC tour is available 2005 - 1 show - HOB Katrina Benefit (Robert Plant performs with them for the entire last encore so i assume that makes that a total no-go)
so really that leaves them with the 2 Mt Baker shows and 9 2004 VFC shows (really it should be 8 since i was at Asheville and Ed was sick and they only played 21 songs)...
so with all that being said, they really had about 10 shows to choose from, 2 of them were back-to-back shows in 2000 and 8 of them are all the VFC tour... i would love anything from the VFC tour and i am sure that will happen evenutally... this time they chose to release an "epic" and "legendary" club show that opened the 2000 world tour with the debut of almost the entire Binuaral album...
seem so bad now? what would you release? another early 90's show?
i personally think they nailed this release and dont give a shit if it doesnt have dead man on it... but again i dont expect perfection out of a rock band
some great points there. and btw- I was at Asheville too. was hoping to see some soundboards released of this someday. audience boot isn't too bad Ed was a trooper but it was def a short show by PJ standards
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
that is overly simplified if you ask me... lets break it down a little deeper...
No Code/Yield reissues (96-98) are clearly in the band's upcoming plans so obviously you would not want to release anything from that era right now, assuming live material will be a part of those reissues...
Vs/Vitalogy reissue (93-95) already happened with the 1994 Orpheum show being a part of that release, so that meas you probably dont want to do another Vault relase from that era yet...
Ten reissue (90-92) already happened with the 1992 Drop in the Park show being a part of that package, and Vault #1 was the 1992 Moore Theater show so i dont think they want to do a Vault release from that era for quite a while...
so to me that pretty much eliminates doing anything from the 90's for THIS particular vault release...
Vault #2 was The Vic 2007 so that tell's me you dont want to release anything after 2006 as a vault release for a while... not to mention 99% of those shows have been released and are WAY too recent to release as a "Vault" release at this time in my opinion
so that leaves 2000-2005 for Vault #4... 99% of the 2000 tour has been released... 99% of the 2003 tour has been released... 99% of the 2005 tour was released... which leaves them to choose from a handful of shows for Vault #4...
2000 - 2 shows - the Mt Baker show and Vancouver 2001 - 1 show - Groundwork (10 song set which makes it no-go) 2002 - 5 shows - 9/23/02 opening for The Who (another 10 song set) and 4 shows from that December which is already reperesented via the 12/6/02 Showbox DVD 2003 - 0 shows - i think every single show was released 2004 - 9 shows - entire 2004 VFC tour is available 2005 - 1 show - HOB Katrina Benefit (Robert Plant performs with them for the entire last encore so i assume that makes that a total no-go
really that leaves them with the 2 Mt Baker shows and 9 2004 VFC shows (really it should be 8 since i was at Asheville and Ed was sick and they only played 21 songs)...
so with all that being said, they really had about 10 shows to choose from, 2 of them were back-to-back shows in 2000 and 8 of them are all the VFC tour... i would love anything from the VFC tour and i am sure that will happen evenutally... this time they chose to release an "epic" and "legendary" club show that opened the 2000 world tour with the debut of almost the entire Binuaral album...
seem so bad now? what would you release? another early 90's show?
i personally think they nailed this release and dont give a shit if it doesnt have dead man on it... but again i dont expect perfection out of a rock band
2003 Santa Barbara Bowl wasn't released. I would love to have that officially released but you are right, they have very limited options from 2000 on. Although, the show with Robert Plant would also be awesome.
i wasnt sure about that one... but lets break that down... SBB 2003 already had tracks released via 10c holiday single... the entire opening set is acoustic and every single song from that set was played at Benny Hall that same week which has been released obviously.... plus chris cornell is on there for an encore and i am not sure how that would work with licensing or whatever, plus i am sure there is some form of a PJ20 release planned for the future that will have Cornell on it due to the TOTG reunion at PJ20... so is SBB 2003 really an option for a Vault release at this time? i think that is an easy no
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
so you didnt even buy this and you are complaining that an incomplete version of dead man isnt included? lol
this band releases nearly EVERY live performance for our consumption and enjoyment over the last 15 years, more than anyone in the modern history of fucking music, and people still want to complain over little shit like this, it really is amazing to me
i know there are a lot of people around here that only listen to PJ for some reason, but the grateful dead have released an endless number of live albums that have incomplete setlists for various reasons, so it is not like pearl jam are the first band to not have a fully perfect recording of a show they are putting out
i bought this, actually it was a gift from my amazing gf, and i have zero issue that dead man is not included... it is just a rock band folks... i do not expect perfection
bottom line = shit happens, get over it, it's only rock and roll
bottom line: you missed the entire point AGAIN. the main issue was lack of disclosure.
I'm not upset about anything. But I can understand why others would be. no one here expects perfection, either, just communication.
I don't think anyone is upset about the exclusion of dead man. glitches happen. it's a live environment where stuff like this occurs. I, and others, just think it's odd that for a big live vinyl release, they keep choosing shows that got fucked up during recording. that's all. the only one who appears to be upset is you. Ironically, at your own incorrect perception of others being upset.
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
that is overly simplified if you ask me... lets break it down a little deeper...
No Code/Yield reissues (96-98) are clearly in the band's upcoming plans and Vault #3 was DC 1998, so obviously you would not want to "Vault" release anything from that era right now
Vs/Vitalogy reissue (93-95) already happened with the 1994 Orpheum show being a part of that release, so that meas you probably dont want to do another Vault relase from that era yet...
Ten reissue (90-92) already happened with the 1992 Drop in the Park show being a part of that package, and Vault #1 was the 1992 Moore Theater show so i dont think they want to do a Vault release from that era for quite a while...
so i assume that pretty much eliminates doing anything from the 90's for THIS particular vault release...
Vault #2 was The Vic 2007 so that tell's me you dont want to release anything after 2006 as a vault release for a while... not to mention 99% of those shows have been released and are WAY too recent to release as a "Vault" release at this time in my opinion
so that leaves 2000-2005 for Vault #4... 99% of the 2000 tour has been released... 99% of the 2003 tour has been released... 99% of the 2005 tour was released... which leaves them to choose from a handful of shows for Vault #4...
2000 - 2 shows - the Mt Baker show and Vancouver 2001 - 1 show - Groundwork (10 song set which makes it no-go) 2002 - 5 shows - 9/23/02 opening for The Who (another 10 song set) and 4 shows from that December which is already reperesented via the 12/6/02 Showbox DVD 2003 - 0 shows - i think every single show was released 2004 - 9 shows - entire 2004 VFC tour is available 2005 - 1 show - HOB Katrina Benefit (Robert Plant performs with them for the entire last encore so i assume that makes that a total no-go)
so really that leaves them with the two 2000 shows and nine 2004 VFC shows (really it should be 8 since i was at Asheville and Ed was sick and they only played 21 songs)...
so with all that being said, they really had about 10 shows to choose from, 2 of them were back-to-back shows in 2000 and 8 of them are all the VFC tour... i would love anything from the VFC tour and i am sure that will happen evenutally... this time they chose to release an "epic" and "legendary" club show that opened the 2000 world tour with the debut of almost the entire Binuaral album...
seem so bad now? what would you release? another early 90's show?
i personally think they nailed this release and dont give a shit if it doesnt have dead man on it... but again i dont expect perfection out of a rock band
I never actually considered the idea that they "shouldn't" release a show that's already available. Almost every single show they've ever done is available on that bootleg site. I would think an Ape/Man show from 2000 would be wicked. The point being this Vault release could be vinyl only, or because it's a vault release, it could have a special booklet like the others do.
Again, no one expects perfection from a rock band, either.
and I don't think the short set shows should be a no go (unless the sound quality sucks). that way they could release the full show, and not break the bank on a 3 disc release. some of their earliest, shortest shows are the most intense.
All of this has been said before, but I'll still reiterate. For everyone complaining about the complainers, keep in mind that this is a band that has scores of COMPLETE, TECHNICALLY SOUND, UNRELEASED shows to pick from. Why they simply can't pick one of those is what's so baffling. Yes this show is still great but get over yourselves and realize that there is a really weird pattern to these vault releases. I can't wait for MSG II 98 to get released only to find someone spilled their beer on the recording deck in excitement when they broke out "Breath".
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
that is overly simplified if you ask me... lets break it down a little deeper...
No Code/Yield reissues (96-98) are clearly in the band's upcoming plans so obviously you would not want to release anything from that era right now, assuming live material will be a part of those reissues...
Vs/Vitalogy reissue (93-95) already happened with the 1994 Orpheum show being a part of that release, so that meas you probably dont want to do another Vault relase from that era yet...
Ten reissue (90-92) already happened with the 1992 Drop in the Park show being a part of that package, and Vault #1 was the 1992 Moore Theater show so i dont think they want to do a Vault release from that era for quite a while...
so to me that pretty much eliminates doing anything from the 90's for THIS particular vault release...
Vault #2 was The Vic 2007 so that tell's me you dont want to release anything after 2006 as a vault release for a while... not to mention 99% of those shows have been released and are WAY too recent to release as a "Vault" release at this time in my opinion
so that leaves 2000-2005 for Vault #4... 99% of the 2000 tour has been released... 99% of the 2003 tour has been released... 99% of the 2005 tour was released... which leaves them to choose from a handful of shows for Vault #4...
2000 - 2 shows - the Mt Baker show and Vancouver 2001 - 1 show - Groundwork (10 song set which makes it no-go) 2002 - 5 shows - 9/23/02 opening for The Who (another 10 song set) and 4 shows from that December which is already reperesented via the 12/6/02 Showbox DVD 2003 - 0 shows - i think every single show was released 2004 - 9 shows - entire 2004 VFC tour is available 2005 - 1 show - HOB Katrina Benefit (Robert Plant performs with them for the entire last encore so i assume that makes that a total no-go
really that leaves them with the 2 Mt Baker shows and 9 2004 VFC shows (really it should be 8 since i was at Asheville and Ed was sick and they only played 21 songs)...
so with all that being said, they really had about 10 shows to choose from, 2 of them were back-to-back shows in 2000 and 8 of them are all the VFC tour... i would love anything from the VFC tour and i am sure that will happen evenutally... this time they chose to release an "epic" and "legendary" club show that opened the 2000 world tour with the debut of almost the entire Binuaral album...
seem so bad now? what would you release? another early 90's show?
i personally think they nailed this release and dont give a shit if it doesnt have dead man on it... but again i dont expect perfection out of a rock band
2003 Santa Barbara Bowl wasn't released. I would love to have that officially released but you are right, they have very limited options from 2000 on. Although, the show with Robert Plant would also be awesome.
i wasnt sure about that one... but lets break that down... SBB 2003 already had tracks released via 10c holiday single... the entire opening set is acoustic and every single song from that set was played at Benny Hall that same week which has been released obviously.... plus chris cornell is on there for an encore and i am not sure how that would work with licensing or whatever, plus i am sure there is some form of a PJ20 release planned for the future that will have Cornell on it due to the TOTG reunion at PJ20... so is SBB 2003 really an option for a Vault release at this time? i think that is an easy no
Yeah but by that logic it makes no sense for them to be releasing a show from 2000 since 99% were already released. Just because it's been 14 years doesn't take away from all the shows from that era a lot of us already have, so to me all shows from 91-99 are just as much "on the table" as the handful of shows from 2000-on.
I never actually considered the idea that they "shouldn't" release a show that's already available. Almost every single show they've ever done is available on that bootleg site. I would think an Ape/Man show from 2000 would be wicked. The point being this Vault release could be vinyl only, or because it's a vault release, it could have a special booklet like the others do.
Again, no one expects perfection from a rock band, either.
Its not Vinyl only, they already said the CD/MP3/FLAC will all be sold after the vinyl starts shipping.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
so you didnt even buy this and you are complaining that an incomplete version of dead man isnt included? lol
this band releases nearly EVERY live performance for our consumption and enjoyment over the last 15 years, more than anyone in the modern history of fucking music, and people still want to complain over little shit like this, it really is amazing to me
i know there are a lot of people around here that only listen to PJ for some reason, but the grateful dead have released an endless number of live albums that have incomplete setlists for various reasons, so it is not like pearl jam are the first band to not have a fully perfect recording of a show they are putting out
i bought this, actually it was a gift from my amazing gf, and i have zero issue that dead man is not included... it is just a rock band folks... i do not expect perfection
bottom line = shit happens, get over it, it's only rock and roll
bottom line: you missed the entire point AGAIN. the main issue was lack of disclosure.
I'm not upset about anything. But I can understand why others would be. no one here expects perfection, either, just communication.
I don't think anyone is upset about the exclusion of dead man. glitches happen. it's a live environment where stuff like this occurs. I, and others, just think it's odd that for a big live vinyl release, they keep choosing shows that got fucked up during recording. that's all. the only one who appears to be upset is you. Ironically, at your own incorrect perception of others being upset.
Are you positive there was no disclosure? Right on every single setlist where you click to buy the boot it clearly says "track listing may differ from original setlist"... and that is clearly stated on this shows setlist as well... I do not remember the original listing, but it is clearly stated on every single setlist page my friend
And believe me, I am not upset... I am just tired of grown adults bitching about stupid shit on a rock bands message board, they suck the life out of this place, it is supposed to be fun
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
so you didnt even buy this and you are complaining that an incomplete version of dead man isnt included? lol
this band releases nearly EVERY live performance for our consumption and enjoyment over the last 15 years, more than anyone in the modern history of fucking music, and people still want to complain over little shit like this, it really is amazing to me
i know there are a lot of people around here that only listen to PJ for some reason, but the grateful dead have released an endless number of live albums that have incomplete setlists for various reasons, so it is not like pearl jam are the first band to not have a fully perfect recording of a show they are putting out
i bought this, actually it was a gift from my amazing gf, and i have zero issue that dead man is not included... it is just a rock band folks... i do not expect perfection
bottom line = shit happens, get over it, it's only rock and roll
bottom line: you missed the entire point AGAIN. the main issue was lack of disclosure.
I'm not upset about anything. But I can understand why others would be. no one here expects perfection, either, just communication.
I don't think anyone is upset about the exclusion of dead man. glitches happen. it's a live environment where stuff like this occurs. I, and others, just think it's odd that for a big live vinyl release, they keep choosing shows that got fucked up during recording. that's all. the only one who appears to be upset is you. Ironically, at your own incorrect perception of others being upset.
Obviously they see real artistic value in the recording despite the deletions. That seems like a GREAT reason to choose these particular releases.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
so you didnt even buy this and you are complaining that an incomplete version of dead man isnt included? lol
this band releases nearly EVERY live performance for our consumption and enjoyment over the last 15 years, more than anyone in the modern history of fucking music, and people still want to complain over little shit like this, it really is amazing to me
i know there are a lot of people around here that only listen to PJ for some reason, but the grateful dead have released an endless number of live albums that have incomplete setlists for various reasons, so it is not like pearl jam are the first band to not have a fully perfect recording of a show they are putting out
i bought this, actually it was a gift from my amazing gf, and i have zero issue that dead man is not included... it is just a rock band folks... i do not expect perfection
bottom line = shit happens, get over it, it's only rock and roll
bottom line: you missed the entire point AGAIN. the main issue was lack of disclosure.
I'm not upset about anything. But I can understand why others would be. no one here expects perfection, either, just communication.
I don't think anyone is upset about the exclusion of dead man. glitches happen. it's a live environment where stuff like this occurs. I, and others, just think it's odd that for a big live vinyl release, they keep choosing shows that got fucked up during recording. that's all. the only one who appears to be upset is you. Ironically, at your own incorrect perception of others being upset.
Are you positive there was no disclosure? Right on every single setlist where you click to buy the boot it clearly says "track listing may differ from original setlist"... and that is clearly stated on this shows setlist as well... I do not remember the original listing, but it is clearly stated on every single setlist page my friend
And believe me, I am not upset... I am just tired of grown adults bitching about stupid shit on a rock bands message board, they suck the life out of this place, it is supposed to be fun
there was no disclosure 03 House of blues was not released shows where guests play with them CAN and HAVE been released.
Hey everyone, there will be more Vault releases. No reason why this one shouldn't be released now, because the band and 10C think it's a cool show (from what I know about it, I agree), and the other shows you're all mentioning can be future Vaults.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I never actually considered the idea that they "shouldn't" release a show that's already available. Almost every single show they've ever done is available on that bootleg site. I would think an Ape/Man show from 2000 would be wicked. The point being this Vault release could be vinyl only, or because it's a vault release, it could have a special booklet like the others do.
Again, no one expects perfection from a rock band, either.
Its not Vinyl only, they already said the CD/MP3/FLAC will all be sold after the vinyl starts shipping.
I know that. when I said "this" vault release, I didn't mean Vault 4, I was still talking about the Ape/Man boot I was thinking about.
I was just saying that for the vault release, if even if it's post-2000, it wouldn't be odd to release a show of a boot that's already released, if you give it the full album art/booklet treatment (as the second part of my last statement says).
People are upset they didn't include an incomplete version of Dead Man?
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
no, you missed the point. the point was not that the show is incomplete. it's about the band/club not telling potential buyers the details of it. that's all.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
so you didnt even buy this and you are complaining that an incomplete version of dead man isnt included? lol
this band releases nearly EVERY live performance for our consumption and enjoyment over the last 15 years, more than anyone in the modern history of fucking music, and people still want to complain over little shit like this, it really is amazing to me
i know there are a lot of people around here that only listen to PJ for some reason, but the grateful dead have released an endless number of live albums that have incomplete setlists for various reasons, so it is not like pearl jam are the first band to not have a fully perfect recording of a show they are putting out
i bought this, actually it was a gift from my amazing gf, and i have zero issue that dead man is not included... it is just a rock band folks... i do not expect perfection
bottom line = shit happens, get over it, it's only rock and roll
bottom line: you missed the entire point AGAIN. the main issue was lack of disclosure.
I'm not upset about anything. But I can understand why others would be. no one here expects perfection, either, just communication.
I don't think anyone is upset about the exclusion of dead man. glitches happen. it's a live environment where stuff like this occurs. I, and others, just think it's odd that for a big live vinyl release, they keep choosing shows that got fucked up during recording. that's all. the only one who appears to be upset is you. Ironically, at your own incorrect perception of others being upset.
Are you positive there was no disclosure? Right on every single setlist where you click to buy the boot it clearly says "track listing may differ from original setlist"... and that is clearly stated on this shows setlist as well... I do not remember the original listing, but it is clearly stated on every single setlist page my friend
And believe me, I am not upset... I am just tired of grown adults bitching about stupid shit on a rock bands message board, they suck the life out of this place, it is supposed to be fun
that's not disclosure. that's an addendum. it gives no specifics, and no one checked out the tracklist on that page when it was initially announced.
the band has stated repeatedly they want feedback on this forum so they know what they did right and what they did not so right.
I get bothered by the "I didn't get a sticker-no fair" crap. But this "bitching" isn't consumerism. It's art. yes, we are all thankful that they release their shows. that's amazing. I've been badgering Hugh Dillon/Headstones to do this for years. I'm just not a big fan of partial shows, never have been. Especially for the trouble and effort a release like this obviously would have taken.
The Tampa bootleg from 2000 had something on the back of it about the tape running out or something. Anyone remember?
yep - here is the set list that was actually played. but the tape crapped out during last exit, so they put it after RITFW on the boot.
set: Interstellar Overdrive, Corduroy, Grievance, Last Exit, Animal, God's Dice, Tremor Christ, Nothing As It Seems, Jeremy, Evacuation, (Romanza)/Better Man, Lukin, Light Years, Daughter/(Another Brick In The Wall)/(Androgynous Mind), Even Flow, Sleight of Hand, Elderly Woman, State of Love and Trust, Insignificance, Rearviewmirror enc 1: Do The Evolution, Hail Hail, Garden, Immortality, Soldier of Love, Porch enc 2: Soon Forget, Indifference enc 3: Rockin' In The Free World
Comments
I guess you're right, we should just assume that everything from this point on will be incomplete, so we need to choose between an audience bootleg (sound quality has gotten much better over the years) that is complete (and free), or an excellent sound quality official bootleg that is incomplete (and not free).
I've seen some threads get closed in this very forum because they linked to audience bootlegs. The reasoning given was that the official bootlegs offered unmatched sound quality. I hope this practice ceases because some people might think completeness is more important than quality.
My copy cuts off for me @ "The hallways are all mocking me. What I've become .." @ the 3:15 mark.
The SiriusXM Broadcast of Dean Man is 3:46 total running time while the DSM6 audience recording source is 5:02 total running time.
I still would of put that 3:46 SBD track on the vinyl record instead of not cutting the song out completely from the set. The edit of Dead Man played on SiriusXM broadcast ran smoothly into MFC.
Wish they kept it and just mentioned in the notes that there were technical problems on the track. Here's what was saved for your pleasure. Something rather then nothing at all.
You guys are ridiculous, something tells me you will survive
I'm thinking the band members' kids take turns picking shows "pin the tail on the donkey" style. That's the only logical answer.
of course we'll survive. I probably won't even buy it. I generally only buy shows I've been to, or older ones from the early 90's.
it just doesn't make sense to me to keep releasing shows that have technical issues and/or are not complete. I just find it weird. it takes something away from the listening experience for me knowing there were other songs not included. it's not being a "whiner", it's just how the listening experience is for some. Some care about it, some don't. I happen to be one of the former.
Back when they were going to launch the digital vault, they released that 1993 Vegas show for free, and it was complete. And it was awesome and appreciated. why not release that one on vinyl for the vault? or another show that is complete?
www.headstonesband.com
2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes
2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
Bootleg Reviews: http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
this band releases nearly EVERY live performance for our consumption and enjoyment over the last 15 years, more than anyone in the modern history of fucking music, and people still want to complain over little shit like this, it really is amazing to me
i know there are a lot of people around here that only listen to PJ for some reason, but the grateful dead have released an endless number of live albums that have incomplete setlists for various reasons, so it is not like pearl jam are the first band to not have a fully perfect recording of a show they are putting out
i bought this, actually it was a gift from my amazing gf, and i have zero issue that dead man is not included... it is just a rock band folks... i do not expect perfection
bottom line = shit happens, get over it, it's only rock and roll
No Code/Yield reissues (96-98) are clearly in the band's upcoming plans and Vault #3 was DC 1998, so obviously you would not want to "Vault" release anything from that era right now
Vs/Vitalogy reissue (93-95) already happened with the 1994 Orpheum show being a part of that release, so that meas you probably dont want to do another Vault relase from that era yet...
Ten reissue (90-92) already happened with the 1992 Drop in the Park show being a part of that package, and Vault #1 was the 1992 Moore Theater show so i dont think they want to do a Vault release from that era for quite a while...
so i assume that pretty much eliminates doing anything from the 90's for THIS particular vault release...
Vault #2 was The Vic 2007 so that tell's me you dont want to release anything after 2006 as a vault release for a while... not to mention 99% of those shows have been released and are WAY too recent to release as a "Vault" release at this time in my opinion
so that leaves 2000-2005 for Vault #4... 99% of the 2000 tour has been released... 99% of the 2003 tour has been released... 99% of the 2005 tour was released... which leaves them to choose from a handful of shows for Vault #4...
2000 - 2 shows - the Mt Baker show and Vancouver
2001 - 1 show - Groundwork (10 song set which makes it no-go)
2002 - 5 shows - 9/23/02 opening for The Who (another 10 song set) and 4 shows from that December which is already reperesented via the 12/6/02 Showbox DVD
2003 - 0 shows - i think every single show was released
2004 - 9 shows - entire 2004 VFC tour is available
2005 - 1 show - HOB Katrina Benefit (Robert Plant performs with them for the entire last encore so i assume that makes that a total no-go)
so really that leaves them with the two 2000 shows and nine 2004 VFC shows (really it should be 8 since i was at Asheville and Ed was sick and they only played 21 songs)...
so with all that being said, they really had about 10 shows to choose from, 2 of them were back-to-back shows in 2000 and 8 of them are all the VFC tour... i would love anything from the VFC tour and i am sure that will happen evenutally... this time they chose to release an "epic" and "legendary" club show that opened the 2000 world tour with the debut of almost the entire Binuaral album...
seem so bad now? what would you release? another early 90's show?
i personally think they nailed this release and dont give a shit if it doesnt have dead man on it... but again i dont expect perfection out of a rock band
and btw- I was at Asheville too.
was hoping to see some soundboards released of this someday.
audience boot isn't too bad
Ed was a trooper but it was def a short show by PJ standards
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
I'm not upset about anything. But I can understand why others would be. no one here expects perfection, either, just communication.
I don't think anyone is upset about the exclusion of dead man. glitches happen. it's a live environment where stuff like this occurs. I, and others, just think it's odd that for a big live vinyl release, they keep choosing shows that got fucked up during recording. that's all. the only one who appears to be upset is you. Ironically, at your own incorrect perception of others being upset.
www.headstonesband.com
Again, no one expects perfection from a rock band, either.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
And Cornell was on LA 2009 with no issues.
And believe me, I am not upset... I am just tired of grown adults bitching about stupid shit on a rock bands message board, they suck the life out of this place, it is supposed to be fun
03 House of blues was not released
shows where guests play with them CAN and HAVE been released.
I was just saying that for the vault release, if even if it's post-2000, it wouldn't be odd to release a show of a boot that's already released, if you give it the full album art/booklet treatment (as the second part of my last statement says).
www.headstonesband.com
the band has stated repeatedly they want feedback on this forum so they know what they did right and what they did not so right.
I get bothered by the "I didn't get a sticker-no fair" crap. But this "bitching" isn't consumerism. It's art. yes, we are all thankful that they release their shows. that's amazing. I've been badgering Hugh Dillon/Headstones to do this for years. I'm just not a big fan of partial shows, never have been. Especially for the trouble and effort a release like this obviously would have taken.
www.headstonesband.com
set: Interstellar Overdrive, Corduroy, Grievance, Last Exit, Animal, God's Dice, Tremor Christ, Nothing As It Seems, Jeremy, Evacuation, (Romanza)/Better Man, Lukin, Light Years, Daughter/(Another Brick In The Wall)/(Androgynous Mind), Even Flow, Sleight of Hand, Elderly Woman, State of Love and Trust, Insignificance, Rearviewmirror
enc 1: Do The Evolution, Hail Hail, Garden, Immortality, Soldier of Love, Porch
enc 2: Soon Forget, Indifference
enc 3: Rockin' In The Free World