America's Gun Violence

Gern Blansten

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/456186-booker-calls-trumps-address-on-mass-shootings-bull-soup?fbclid=IwAR2pcRyFrhlvzl4n07zZk9jkJesjiOLvggrkgIRq0o8Dtkib5qvDWM22Zx0

This is great...."Bullshit soup"

mickeyrat

mcgruff10 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mickeyrat said:

oftenreading said:

“There must be some reason other than guns that explains why the US has such a gun violence problem” is a story that the American population tells itself. As long as that story persists, the problem won’t be solved. 

the colonization of this land was begun with violence. the creation of the nation was born of violence, the growth of this nation was from daily violence(slavery and native genocide) we became a superpower as a result of violence and remain so with an unspoken but highly visible threat of violence.

We learned well from the powers throughout history.

Simply put its human fucking animalistic nature to be violent.

Humans are humans everywhere, and almost every country is born or formed in violence. I don’t believe that Americans are inherently more violent than other humans. They just have more means to act it out. 

Agreed.  I've mentioned it before but New Jersey definitely has it right when trying to buy a gun.  Before buying a firearm I  need to get fingerprinted, get two non relative recommendation letters, a mental health background check is conducted and then my employer is contacted to see if their is any issues.  If everything is ok then I get a firearms id card.  When I buy a firearm another background check is then conducted to see if their has been any recent red flags.  
This has seemed to work since the majority of firearms used in crimes are brought in out of state.
Keeping weapons out of those who are incapable of using them responsibility is key.  

Any limits on ammunition?  Or # of gun purchases?

one hand gun a month and every time you buy another handgun you need to get further background info done and paperwork.  after you get approved you get a permit to buy one handgun and you have 90 days to do it.  After the 90 days you can file for a one time extension of 90 days or it expires.   with my FID card I can buy rifles and shotguns but not handguns.  It's hard to understand unless you live here but it does seem to work since the vast majority of crimes are due to handguns (and they all seem to be from out of state).   Some calibers of ammunition have been outlawed (I can't remember off hand).  We just went from 15 to 10 round mag limits although I can drive 25 miles west and buy a 90 round mag in PA if I wanted (which I wouldn't).  
There are also no gun shows in new jersey; you must sell from a permanent brick and mortar store.  
It is virtually impossible to get a concealed carry permit in new jersey and the state does not recognize other states that have concealed carry.  So in PA you might legally be allowed to carry but if you come to nj and are caught carrying you get some serious jail time.

I like it. any private sales?

mcgruff10

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mickeyrat said:

oftenreading said:

“There must be some reason other than guns that explains why the US has such a gun violence problem” is a story that the American population tells itself. As long as that story persists, the problem won’t be solved. 

the colonization of this land was begun with violence. the creation of the nation was born of violence, the growth of this nation was from daily violence(slavery and native genocide) we became a superpower as a result of violence and remain so with an unspoken but highly visible threat of violence.

We learned well from the powers throughout history.

Simply put its human fucking animalistic nature to be violent.

Humans are humans everywhere, and almost every country is born or formed in violence. I don’t believe that Americans are inherently more violent than other humans. They just have more means to act it out. 

Agreed.  I've mentioned it before but New Jersey definitely has it right when trying to buy a gun.  Before buying a firearm I  need to get fingerprinted, get two non relative recommendation letters, a mental health background check is conducted and then my employer is contacted to see if their is any issues.  If everything is ok then I get a firearms id card.  When I buy a firearm another background check is then conducted to see if their has been any recent red flags.  
This has seemed to work since the majority of firearms used in crimes are brought in out of state.
Keeping weapons out of those who are incapable of using them responsibility is key.  

Any limits on ammunition?  Or # of gun purchases?

one hand gun a month and every time you buy another handgun you need to get further background info done and paperwork.  after you get approved you get a permit to buy one handgun and you have 90 days to do it.  After the 90 days you can file for a one time extension of 90 days or it expires.   with my FID card I can buy rifles and shotguns but not handguns.  It's hard to understand unless you live here but it does seem to work since the vast majority of crimes are due to handguns (and they all seem to be from out of state).   Some calibers of ammunition have been outlawed (I can't remember off hand).  We just went from 15 to 10 round mag limits although I can drive 25 miles west and buy a 90 round mag in PA if I wanted (which I wouldn't).  
There are also no gun shows in new jersey; you must sell from a permanent brick and mortar store.  
It is virtually impossible to get a concealed carry permit in new jersey and the state does not recognize other states that have concealed carry.  So in PA you might legally be allowed to carry but if you come to nj and are caught carrying you get some serious jail time.

I like it. any private sales?

I m not sure bud. I ll research it a little further and let you know.  

oftenreading

Spiritual_Chaos said:

oftenreading said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

oftenreading said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

oftenreading said:

mickeyrat said:

oftenreading said:

“There must be some reason other than guns that explains why the US has such a gun violence problem” is a story that the American population tells itself. As long as that story persists, the problem won’t be solved. 

the colonization of this land was begun with violence. the creation of the nation was born of violence, the growth of this nation was from daily violence(slavery and native genocide) we became a superpower as a result of violence and remain so with an unspoken but highly visible threat of violence.

We learned well from the powers throughout history.

Simply put its human fucking animalistic nature to be violent.

Humans are humans everywhere, and almost every country is born or formed in violence. I don’t believe that Americans are inherently more violent than other humans. They just have more means to act it out. 

How are the US social safety nets? Compared to other countries. 

I mean, they are not putting any money into health care... so... valid question. The welfare state seems to be up for sale.

#profits

The US has far more gun deaths than any other country - not just compared to other developed nations, but compares to developing nations with little to no social safety net. 

I’m never going to argue against a proper health care system, but the lack of it is not at fault in the gun death issue. 

It’s the guns. 

I'm not defending guns here. 

I mean your solution is simple and in plain sight:

COPY "SWEDISH GUN LAWS"

PASTE

BUT -- 

-- These kind of attacks without guns but with e.g.



...aren't really occurring in other countries (and yes, I do know they do happen)? So it's must be something more than THE US DISGUSTING RELATIONSHIP to guns.

Well, no, I disagree. It’s pretty hard to carry out a mass knifing. People just don’t stand still long enough to get more than one or two of them. 
 

So, compared to mass shooting - how many cases in Europe have there been of someone going out to mass-knife random people but with people not standing still long enough for them to get more than one or two of them?

Is it comparable in number of attempts?

There is concern about the level of knife crime in the UK, but my point was more that people don’t try to carry out mass knifings because it’s an absurd concept, so no real point in looking for data on mass knifings. 

When the data on gun deaths vs number of guns in a country is plotted, it’s a very clear linear relationship. The US doesn’t actually have higher levels of non-gun violent crime than other developed countries, which doesn’t support the theory that Americans are simply more violent overall. 

It’s the guns. 

Gern Blansten

We need national registration and also need to tax the fuck out of ammunition.  

Meltdown99

Canada had a national registration and it was a billion-dollar-plus boondogle and has since been sent to the scrap heap of history.  There is any number of countries that have common-sense gun control...the US would be wise to look at Canada's gun laws.

Spiritual_Chaos

Meltdown99 said:

Canada had a national registration and it was a billion-dollar-plus boondogle and has since been sent to the scrap heap of history.  There is any number of countries that have common-sense gun control...the US would be wise to look at Canada's gun laws.

Sweden has national registration (if it means what I think it does) and have never heard the word boondogle over here.

What was the boondogle?

Meltdown99

Google can be your friend...

Spiritual_Chaos

Meltdown99 said:

Google can be your friend...

Complete posts with adequate info is everyone's friend....

Meltdown99

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Meltdown99 said:

Google can be your friend...

Complete posts with adequate info is everyone's friend....

Then you should give it a try sometime...

bootlegger10

AMT burn!!!!!

bootlegger10

I spoke with co-workers.  It ended with a discussions on smaller government.  The right doesn’t give a crap about gun shootings.

Meltdown99

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/01/22/canada-tried-registering-long-guns-and-gave-up/#73c325285a1b

Meltdown99

Canada has a strict handgun registry ... I believe the registry for handguns came about in the '30s...

tbergs

We couldn't ban alcohol and it kills way more people than guns, so that is never going to happen. Regulation and pre-ownership requirements are the only way to reducing the casualties. Nothing will ever stop it completely. I doubt any change will happen in my or my kids' lifetime. Maybe in the 22nd century we'll get serious about it when robots control things more efficiently.

Halifax2TheMax

tbergs said:

We couldn't ban alcohol and it kills way more people than guns, so that is never going to happen. Regulation and pre-ownership requirements are the only way to reducing the casualties. Nothing will ever stop it completely. I doubt any change will happen in my or my kids' lifetime. Maybe in the 22nd century we'll get serious about it when robots control things more efficiently.

Could have had something done about one aspect though until Team Trump Treason came along and repaid his debt to Putin on the ritz and the $30 million from the NRA. The man is hollow.

https://apple.news/AYedD-hvkQ6yy-XD9--DFhg

vaggar99

you really can't control what people want to do.  you can control what the things they access to.  why is that so hard?  

Gern Blansten

vaggar99 said:

you really can't control what people want to do.  you can control what the things they access to.  why is that so hard?  

Exactly.  Why shouldn't we make it as difficult as possible for these mass shootings to happen?

Step one would be to ban assault weapons.  Ban sales of modification items.  Ban the gun show loophole.  Put a 500% sales tax on ammunition. Require registration and licensing.

Funny thing is that this would only have an effect on a small percentage of people.  99% of us would not be effected at all.

mcgruff10

Gern Blansten said:

vaggar99 said:

you really can't control what people want to do.  you can control what the things they access to.  why is that so hard?  

Exactly.  Why shouldn't we make it as difficult as possible for these mass shootings to happen?

Step one would be to ban assault weapons.  Ban sales of modification items.  Ban the gun show loophole.  Put a 500% sales tax on ammunition. Require registration and licensing.

Funny thing is that this would only have an effect on a small percentage of people.  99% of us would not be effected at all.

500% tax on ammo?  Come on. 

tbergs

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

vaggar99 said:

you really can't control what people want to do.  you can control what the things they access to.  why is that so hard?  

Exactly.  Why shouldn't we make it as difficult as possible for these mass shootings to happen?

Step one would be to ban assault weapons.  Ban sales of modification items.  Ban the gun show loophole.  Put a 500% sales tax on ammunition. Require registration and licensing.

Funny thing is that this would only have an effect on a small percentage of people.  99% of us would not be effected at all.

500% tax on ammo?  Come on. 

How much ammo do you really need that isn't mostly related to recreational fun? Even if you wanted to stay proficient, it's not like you need 1000 rounds. And how many people would this really affect?