FOR those of us who argue in favor of gun safety laws, there are a few inconvenient facts.
We liberals are sometimes glib about equating guns and danger. In fact, it’s complicated: The number of guns in America has increased by more than 50 percent since 1993, and in that same period the gun homicide rate in the United States has dropped by half.
Then there are the policies that liberals fought for, starting with the assault weapons ban. A 113-page study found no clear indication that it reduced shooting deaths for the 10 years it was in effect. That’s because the ban was poorly drafted, and because even before the ban, assault weapons accounted for only 2 percent of guns used in crimes.
Move on to open-carry and conceal-carry laws: With some 13 million Americans now licensed to pack a concealed gun, many liberals expected gun battles to be erupting all around us. In fact, the most rigorous analysis suggests that all these gun permits caused neither a drop in crime (as conservatives had predicted) nor a spike in killings (as liberals had expected). Liberals were closer to the truth, for the increase in carrying loaded guns does appear to have led to more aggravated assaults with guns, but the fears were overblown.
One of the puzzles of American politics is that most voters want gun regulation, but Congress resists. One poll found that 74 percent even of N.R.A. members favor universal background checks to acquire a gun. Likewise, the latest New York Times poll found that 62 percent of Americans approved of President Obama’s executive actions on guns this month.
So why does nothing get done? One reason is that liberals often inadvertently antagonize gun owners and empower the National Rifle Association by coming across as supercilious, condescending and spectacularly uninformed about the guns they propose to regulate. A classic of gun ignorance: New York passed a law three years ago banning gun magazines holding more than seven bullets — without realizing that for most guns there is no such thing as a magazine for seven bullets or less.
And every time liberals speak blithely about banning guns, they boost the N.R.A. Let’s also banish the term “gun control”: the better expression is “gun safety.”
Yet this, too, must be said: Americans are absolutely right to be outraged at the toll of guns. Just since 1970, more Americans have died from guns than all the Americans who died in wars going back to the American Revolution (about 1.45 million vs. 1.4 million). That gun toll includes suicides, murders and accidents, and these days it amounts to 92 bodies a day.
We spend billions of dollars tackling terrorism, which killed 229 Americans worldwide from 2005 through 2014, according to the State Department. In the same 10 years, including suicides, some 310,000 Americans died from guns.
So of course we should try to reduce this carnage. But we need a new strategy, a public health approach that treats guns as we do cars — taking evidence-based steps to make them safer. That seems to be what President Obama is trying to do.
Research suggests that the most important practical step would be to keep guns away from high-risk individuals, such as criminals, those who abuse alcohol, or those who beat up their domestic partners. That means universal background checks before somebody acquires a gun. New Harvard research confirms a long-ago finding that 40 percent of firearms in the United States are acquired without a background check. That’s crazy. Why empower criminals to arm themselves?
Some evidence supports steps that seem common sense. More than 10 percent of murders in the United States, for example, are by intimate partners. The riskiest moment is often after a violent breakup when a woman has won a restraining order against her ex. Prohibiting the subjects of those restraining orders from possessing a gun reduces these murders by 10 percent, one study found.
“If you can keep a gun from someone at that moment of threat, that is very important,” notes Daniel W. Webster, a gun safety expert at Johns Hopkins University who has pioneered research on keeping guns from high-risk individuals. Some public health approaches to reducing gun violence have nothing to do with guns. Researchers find that a nonprofit called Cure Violence, which works with gangs, curbs gun deaths. An initiative called Fast Track supports high-risk children and reduces delinquency and adult crime.
In short, let’s get smarter. Let’s make America’s gun battles less ideological and more driven by evidence of what works. If the left can drop the sanctimony, and the right can drop the obstructionism, if instead of wrestling with each other we can grapple with the evidence, we can save thousands of lives a year.
I think this is the "common sense" stuff both sides have been talking about.
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
It will also insure that people won't be going to the range to improve their skills with firearms, since it will be too expensive to practice. Seems like a bad idea to me.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
It was a joke. I'm ok with taking everyone's guns.
But way to make a gun thread about the poor being screwed. Impressive. Deflection even the Donald would be proud of!
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
It will also insure that people won't be going to the range to improve their skills with firearms, since it will be too expensive to practice. Seems like a bad idea to me.
Honestly, nothing could be much worse then we have. When has an armed person stopped a shooting? Now compare that to the number of deaths from accidental shootings.
The number of people that think they need guns in this country is stupid.
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
It was a joke. I'm ok with taking everyone's guns.
But way to make a gun thread about the poor being screwed. Impressive. Deflection even the Donald would be proud of!
Not deflection, just trying to see the bigger picture.
Post edited by dudeman on
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
It will also insure that people won't be going to the range to improve their skills with firearms, since it will be too expensive to practice. Seems like a bad idea to me.
Honestly, nothing could be much worse then we have. When has an armed person stopped a shooting? Now compare that to the number of deaths from accidental shootings.
The number of people that think they need guns in this country is stupid.
I read somewhere that 2,000,000 people have used firearms to prevent themselves or others from being murdered or raped.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
It will also insure that people won't be going to the range to improve their skills with firearms, since it will be too expensive to practice. Seems like a bad idea to me.
Honestly, nothing could be much worse then we have. When has an armed person stopped a shooting? Now compare that to the number of deaths from accidental shootings.
The number of people that think they need guns in this country is stupid.
I read somewhere that 2,000,000 people have used firearms to prevent themselves or others from being murdered or raped.
I read somewhere that there were 10,000,000,000 accident deaths from shootings...let's do the math now!!
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
He sounds like Mike Bloomberg who wants all of America's guns. Sorry Mr. Mayor bankster but we all cant afford a dozen former MOSSAD agents guarding our daughter while she rides her million dollar ponies.
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
I'm so tired of the gun violence and America's love of guns.
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
So only rich people could afford to exercise their right to keep and bear arms? More proposed ideals that target poor people.
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
It will also insure that people won't be going to the range to improve their skills with firearms, since it will be too expensive to practice. Seems like a bad idea to me.
Honestly, nothing could be much worse then we have. When has an armed person stopped a shooting? Now compare that to the number of deaths from accidental shootings.
The number of people that think they need guns in this country is stupid.
I read somewhere that 2,000,000 people have used firearms to prevent themselves or others from being murdered or raped.
I read somewhere that there were 10,000,000,000 accident deaths from shootings...let's do the math now!!
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
Yup, you're right. I researched the stats last night. (After I posted......my bad.) The NRA gives stats between 2 and 2.5 million and other, anti-gun groups conduct studies to contradict the NRAs claims. One that I found claimed only 256 incidents. Both sides are pretty flawed, it seems.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
Yup, you're right. I researched the stats last night. (After I posted......my bad.) The NRA gives stats between 2 and 2.5 million and other, anti-gun groups conduct studies to contradict the NRAs claims. One that I found claimed only 256 incidents. Both sides are pretty flawed, it seems.
I think if this was transpiring on a regular basis it would be a daily or weekly report on Fox News.
The thing is, just because you own a gun or carry a gun does not mean you will be able to prevent a crime from happening. In fact, I would say only in the rarest of situations would your gun come in handy.
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
Yup, you're right. I researched the stats last night. (After I posted......my bad.) The NRA gives stats between 2 and 2.5 million and other, anti-gun groups conduct studies to contradict the NRAs claims. One that I found claimed only 256 incidents. Both sides are pretty flawed, it seems.
I think if this was transpiring on a regular basis it would be a daily or weekly report on Fox News.
The thing is, just because you own a gun or carry a gun does not mean you will be able to prevent a crime from happening. In fact, I would say only in the rarest of situations would your gun come in handy.
it does happen on a regular basis but what fun is that for the news to report on. No crime due to someone intervening as opposed to the local liquor store getting robbed follow by a police chase with a few twists is a better story.
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
Yup, you're right. I researched the stats last night. (After I posted......my bad.) The NRA gives stats between 2 and 2.5 million and other, anti-gun groups conduct studies to contradict the NRAs claims. One that I found claimed only 256 incidents. Both sides are pretty flawed, it seems.
I think if this was transpiring on a regular basis it would be a daily or weekly report on Fox News.
The thing is, just because you own a gun or carry a gun does not mean you will be able to prevent a crime from happening. In fact, I would say only in the rarest of situations would your gun come in handy.
it does happen on a regular basis but what fun is that for the news to report on. No crime due to someone intervening as opposed to the local liquor store getting robbed follow by a police chase with a few twists is a better story.
Really? It couldn't be more relevant. Guns are one of the biggest issues in politics right now and news agencies are in the business of getting politicians elected. If this was happening all the time it would be all over Fox News. It would be confirmation bias for all the gun advocates and it would resonate more than a police chase that we are so used to by now. If you want police chases you can always watch 'Cops'.
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
Yup, you're right. I researched the stats last night. (After I posted......my bad.) The NRA gives stats between 2 and 2.5 million and other, anti-gun groups conduct studies to contradict the NRAs claims. One that I found claimed only 256 incidents. Both sides are pretty flawed, it seems.
I think if this was transpiring on a regular basis it would be a daily or weekly report on Fox News.
The thing is, just because you own a gun or carry a gun does not mean you will be able to prevent a crime from happening. In fact, I would say only in the rarest of situations would your gun come in handy.
From my own personal experience, I have a friend who used his gun to stop a carjacking. His wife and baby were in the vehicle at the time.
I also have lost loved ones to violent criminals. While I can't say that their having a gun would have guaranteed their survival, it may have.
You're right in the notion that just having a gun with you is enough. One must also seek the knowledge and training to use it effectively against intended targets while minimizing risk to innocents.
There are those of us who have sought that training and accept the responsibility that comes with it. It's a very personal decision and, IMO, one that law-abiding citizens should be able to make for themselves.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
Yup, you're right. I researched the stats last night. (After I posted......my bad.) The NRA gives stats between 2 and 2.5 million and other, anti-gun groups conduct studies to contradict the NRAs claims. One that I found claimed only 256 incidents. Both sides are pretty flawed, it seems.
I think if this was transpiring on a regular basis it would be a daily or weekly report on Fox News.
The thing is, just because you own a gun or carry a gun does not mean you will be able to prevent a crime from happening. In fact, I would say only in the rarest of situations would your gun come in handy.
it does happen on a regular basis but what fun is that for the news to report on. No crime due to someone intervening as opposed to the local liquor store getting robbed follow by a police chase with a few twists is a better story.
Really? It couldn't be more relevant. Guns are one of the biggest issues in politics right now and news agencies are in the business of getting politicians elected. If this was happening all the time it would be all over Fox News. It would be confirmation bias for all the gun advocates and it would resonate more than a police chase that we are so used to by now. If you want police chases you can always watch 'Cops'.
What I found in my search for stats regarding defensive uses of guns is that most crimes that are prevented with firearms where no shots are fired aren't reported at all. There isn't really any obligation for law-enforcement to act when a crime wasn't actually committed.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Dont think anyone will ever see those numbers. There is no official record kept to track the numbers. Also there is no requirement to report that a crime was prevented by use of a firearm. The so called experts make estimations and run with the numbers. Try researching the numbers and its like throwing a dart at a dartboard. The estimates are all over the place.
Yup, you're right. I researched the stats last night. (After I posted......my bad.) The NRA gives stats between 2 and 2.5 million and other, anti-gun groups conduct studies to contradict the NRAs claims. One that I found claimed only 256 incidents. Both sides are pretty flawed, it seems.
I think if this was transpiring on a regular basis it would be a daily or weekly report on Fox News.
The thing is, just because you own a gun or carry a gun does not mean you will be able to prevent a crime from happening. In fact, I would say only in the rarest of situations would your gun come in handy.
it does happen on a regular basis but what fun is that for the news to report on. No crime due to someone intervening as opposed to the local liquor store getting robbed follow by a police chase with a few twists is a better story.
Really? It couldn't be more relevant. Guns are one of the biggest issues in politics right now and news agencies are in the business of getting politicians elected. If this was happening all the time it would be all over Fox News. It would be confirmation bias for all the gun advocates and it would resonate more than a police chase that we are so used to by now. If you want police chases you can always watch 'Cops'.
Whats relevant to the news is ratings and business. What will get you viewers, what will bring them back. When a crime is stopped because someone intervenes with a gun or whatever other means, the story literally comes and goes and its off to the next story. When there is a story of a senseless shooting, robbery, etc. the story gets more air time, people get interviewed on camera, and so on.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Lesson: Dont argue with the Rothschilds. They will do anything to strip and take Americans 2nd Amendment rights. Just like they did whatever it took to acquire the Federal Reserve.
Lesson: Dont argue with the Rothschilds. They will do anything to strip and take Americans 2nd Amendment rights. Just like they did whatever it took to acquire the Federal Reserve.
Don't argue with anybody who has a gun. It will be solved wild west style.
Yeeeeehaaaawwwww
i was going to post it too.
responsible gun owners for sure.
if they were responsible they wouldn't be killing someone over a measley $25. they would have talked it out because they did not want to see anyone get hurt.
facefuckingpalm
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Comments
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!1
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
There are some really good people that generally have really solid values that just can;t see what's right in front of them. It's crazy. While I'm generally against raising taxes, perhaps ammo should have a 1,000,000% tax. Buy the gun, but can;t afford to load it much would be great!
A super high ammo tax would also likely lead to a huge increase of theft and black market activity.
But way to make a gun thread about the poor being screwed. Impressive. Deflection even the Donald would be proud of!
The number of people that think they need guns in this country is stupid.
Where? I would like to see that.
The thing is, just because you own a gun or carry a gun does not mean you will be able to prevent a crime from happening. In fact, I would say only in the rarest of situations would your gun come in handy.
I also have lost loved ones to violent criminals. While I can't say that their having a gun would have guaranteed their survival, it may have.
You're right in the notion that just having a gun with you is enough. One must also seek the knowledge and training to use it effectively against intended targets while minimizing risk to innocents.
There are those of us who have sought that training and accept the responsibility that comes with it. It's a very personal decision and, IMO, one that law-abiding citizens should be able to make for themselves.
while sitting at church.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.picayuneitem.com/2016/01/two-dead-two-injured-over-25-repair-charge/
AT A GUN STORE
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Lesson: Don't agrue in a gun store......
Don't argue with anybody who has a gun. It will be solved wild west style.
Yeeeeehaaaawwwww
responsible gun owners for sure.
if they were responsible they wouldn't be killing someone over a measley $25. they would have talked it out because they did not want to see anyone get hurt.
facefuckingpalm
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Until it's not.