America's Gun Violence
Comments
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Because we know there's no such thing as evolution.The technology still has many limitations for creating completely reliable weapons from scratch, but some enthusiasts have shown how ordinary weapons can be modified with 3-D-printed parts to create untraceable guns.
- By Aaron Steckelberg
- 2 hours ago
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Minimum portion of ATF inspections of licensed (“responsible”, until they’re not-my words) firearm dealers last year that found violations: 1/3.
Portion that lead to the revocation or denial of a license: 1/250.
Source: ATF, courtesy of Harper’s Index09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Pretty sad. There is also very little follow up up or investigation into why individuals who are denied buying a firearm for failing the background check are trying to buy guns in the first place.
We need to do better.If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV0 -
Without studying the data on the instances where violations were noted and the severity of each, this doesn't seem that out of proportion. It's like pulling the data for those cited for traffic infractions and then finding that less than 1% of violations resulted in loss of a driver's license.Halifax2TheMax said:Minimum portion of ATF inspections of licensed (“responsible”, until they’re not-my words) firearm dealers last year that found violations: 1/3.
Portion that lead to the revocation or denial of a license: 1/250.
Source: ATF, courtesy of Harper’s IndexIt's a hopeless situation...0 -
I would also like to know how/why the data was collected. Were these random audits, or were they auditing FFL dealers that had complaints/concerns/past violations? I know several FFL dealers that have never been audited and the only documentation they are required to have is paper (no electronic database or reporting requirements).tbergs said:
Without studying the data on the instances where violations were noted and the severity of each, this doesn't seem that out of proportion. It's like pulling the data for those cited for traffic infractions and then finding that less than 1% of violations resulted in loss of a driver's license.Halifax2TheMax said:Minimum portion of ATF inspections of licensed (“responsible”, until they’re not-my words) firearm dealers last year that found violations: 1/3.
Portion that lead to the revocation or denial of a license: 1/250.
Source: ATF, courtesy of Harper’s Index
Meaningful stats until they are not...Post edited by PJPOWER on0 -
PJPOWER said:
I would also like to know how/why the data was collected. Were these random audits, or were they auditing FFL dealers that had complaints/concerns/past violations? I know several FFL dealers that have never been audited and the only documentation they are required to have is paper (no electronic database or reporting requirements).tbergs said:
Without studying the data on the instances where violations were noted and the severity of each, this doesn't seem that out of proportion. It's like pulling the data for those cited for traffic infractions and then finding that less than 1% of violations resulted in loss of a driver's license.Halifax2TheMax said:Minimum portion of ATF inspections of licensed (“responsible”, until they’re not-my words) firearm dealers last year that found violations: 1/3.
Portion that lead to the revocation or denial of a license: 1/250.
Source: ATF, courtesy of Harper’s Index
Meaningful stats until they are not...There were 134,738 FFLs in fiscal year 2017. This includes firearm licenses for dealers, manufacturers, importers and collectors. During that time, ATF conducted 11,009 firearms compliance inspections. In 2017, less than half of 1% of FFLs were revoked.
Part of ATF’s core mission is to protect the public from violent crime involving the use of firearms. The FFLs who willfully violate the laws and regulations preventing ATF from accomplishing its mission to protect the public are few. Willfulness is not defined in the regulations, but is defined by case law to mean the intentional disregard of a known legal duty or plain indifference to a licensee’s legal obligations. In the case of an FFL who has willfully violated the law, has shown an intentional disregard for regulatory requirements or has knowingly participated in criminal acts, revocation often becomes the only viable option. It should be noted, however, that ATF does not revoke for every violation it finds and that revocation actions are seldom initiated until after an FFL has been educated on the requirements of the laws and regulations and given an opportunity to voluntarily comply with them but has failed to do so. Violations commonly cited in revocation cases include failure to account for firearms, failure to verify and document purchaser eligibility, failure to maintain records requisite for successful firearms tracing and failure to report multiple sales of handguns.
Only 7% of FFLs in 2015 were auditied. Less than 10,000 of the above number if it held true.
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/gun-store-atf-inspection/
I'm sure there's more information here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/03/us/atf-gun-store-violations.html
"Responsible" until they're not.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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So the violations were based on record keeping for the most part...or failure to report multiple purchases? Sounds good enough for government work...sounds like the ATF is doing a crappy job regulating current laws.Halifax2TheMax said:PJPOWER said:
I would also like to know how/why the data was collected. Were these random audits, or were they auditing FFL dealers that had complaints/concerns/past violations? I know several FFL dealers that have never been audited and the only documentation they are required to have is paper (no electronic database or reporting requirements).tbergs said:
Without studying the data on the instances where violations were noted and the severity of each, this doesn't seem that out of proportion. It's like pulling the data for those cited for traffic infractions and then finding that less than 1% of violations resulted in loss of a driver's license.Halifax2TheMax said:Minimum portion of ATF inspections of licensed (“responsible”, until they’re not-my words) firearm dealers last year that found violations: 1/3.
Portion that lead to the revocation or denial of a license: 1/250.
Source: ATF, courtesy of Harper’s Index
Meaningful stats until they are not...There were 134,738 FFLs in fiscal year 2017. This includes firearm licenses for dealers, manufacturers, importers and collectors. During that time, ATF conducted 11,009 firearms compliance inspections. In 2017, less than half of 1% of FFLs were revoked.
Part of ATF’s core mission is to protect the public from violent crime involving the use of firearms. The FFLs who willfully violate the laws and regulations preventing ATF from accomplishing its mission to protect the public are few. Willfulness is not defined in the regulations, but is defined by case law to mean the intentional disregard of a known legal duty or plain indifference to a licensee’s legal obligations. In the case of an FFL who has willfully violated the law, has shown an intentional disregard for regulatory requirements or has knowingly participated in criminal acts, revocation often becomes the only viable option. It should be noted, however, that ATF does not revoke for every violation it finds and that revocation actions are seldom initiated until after an FFL has been educated on the requirements of the laws and regulations and given an opportunity to voluntarily comply with them but has failed to do so. Violations commonly cited in revocation cases include failure to account for firearms, failure to verify and document purchaser eligibility, failure to maintain records requisite for successful firearms tracing and failure to report multiple sales of handguns.
Only 7% of FFLs in 2015 were auditied. Less than 10,000 of the above number if it held true.
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/gun-store-atf-inspection/
I'm sure there's more information here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/03/us/atf-gun-store-violations.html
"Responsible" until they're not.
“Interesting” until it is notPost edited by PJPOWER on0 -
Pro-fun folks during discussion - “I’m all for stronger background checks and better enforcement of laws around gun purchases”
Pro-gun folks when provided information on inadequate background checks and violations of gun purchase laws - “ehhh, it’s only record keeping.... not very interesting”my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
PJPOWER said:
So the violations were based on record keeping for the most part...or failure to report multiple purchases? Sounds good enough for government work...sounds like the ATF is doing a crappy job regulating current laws.Halifax2TheMax said:PJPOWER said:
I would also like to know how/why the data was collected. Were these random audits, or were they auditing FFL dealers that had complaints/concerns/past violations? I know several FFL dealers that have never been audited and the only documentation they are required to have is paper (no electronic database or reporting requirements).tbergs said:
Without studying the data on the instances where violations were noted and the severity of each, this doesn't seem that out of proportion. It's like pulling the data for those cited for traffic infractions and then finding that less than 1% of violations resulted in loss of a driver's license.Halifax2TheMax said:Minimum portion of ATF inspections of licensed (“responsible”, until they’re not-my words) firearm dealers last year that found violations: 1/3.
Portion that lead to the revocation or denial of a license: 1/250.
Source: ATF, courtesy of Harper’s Index
Meaningful stats until they are not...There were 134,738 FFLs in fiscal year 2017. This includes firearm licenses for dealers, manufacturers, importers and collectors. During that time, ATF conducted 11,009 firearms compliance inspections. In 2017, less than half of 1% of FFLs were revoked.
Part of ATF’s core mission is to protect the public from violent crime involving the use of firearms. The FFLs who willfully violate the laws and regulations preventing ATF from accomplishing its mission to protect the public are few. Willfulness is not defined in the regulations, but is defined by case law to mean the intentional disregard of a known legal duty or plain indifference to a licensee’s legal obligations. In the case of an FFL who has willfully violated the law, has shown an intentional disregard for regulatory requirements or has knowingly participated in criminal acts, revocation often becomes the only viable option. It should be noted, however, that ATF does not revoke for every violation it finds and that revocation actions are seldom initiated until after an FFL has been educated on the requirements of the laws and regulations and given an opportunity to voluntarily comply with them but has failed to do so. Violations commonly cited in revocation cases include failure to account for firearms, failure to verify and document purchaser eligibility, failure to maintain records requisite for successful firearms tracing and failure to report multiple sales of handguns.
Only 7% of FFLs in 2015 were auditied. Less than 10,000 of the above number if it held true.
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/gun-store-atf-inspection/
I'm sure there's more information here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/03/us/atf-gun-store-violations.html
"Responsible" until they're not.
“Interesting” until it is not
7% get audited. It should be 100%. So your friends can feel special and like they belong.PJPOWER said:
So the violations were based on record keeping for the most part...or failure to report multiple purchases? Sounds good enough for government work...sounds like the ATF is doing a crappy job regulating current laws.Halifax2TheMax said:PJPOWER said:
I would also like to know how/why the data was collected. Were these random audits, or were they auditing FFL dealers that had complaints/concerns/past violations? I know several FFL dealers that have never been audited and the only documentation they are required to have is paper (no electronic database or reporting requirements).tbergs said:
Without studying the data on the instances where violations were noted and the severity of each, this doesn't seem that out of proportion. It's like pulling the data for those cited for traffic infractions and then finding that less than 1% of violations resulted in loss of a driver's license.Halifax2TheMax said:Minimum portion of ATF inspections of licensed (“responsible”, until they’re not-my words) firearm dealers last year that found violations: 1/3.
Portion that lead to the revocation or denial of a license: 1/250.
Source: ATF, courtesy of Harper’s Index
Meaningful stats until they are not...There were 134,738 FFLs in fiscal year 2017. This includes firearm licenses for dealers, manufacturers, importers and collectors. During that time, ATF conducted 11,009 firearms compliance inspections. In 2017, less than half of 1% of FFLs were revoked.
Part of ATF’s core mission is to protect the public from violent crime involving the use of firearms. The FFLs who willfully violate the laws and regulations preventing ATF from accomplishing its mission to protect the public are few. Willfulness is not defined in the regulations, but is defined by case law to mean the intentional disregard of a known legal duty or plain indifference to a licensee’s legal obligations. In the case of an FFL who has willfully violated the law, has shown an intentional disregard for regulatory requirements or has knowingly participated in criminal acts, revocation often becomes the only viable option. It should be noted, however, that ATF does not revoke for every violation it finds and that revocation actions are seldom initiated until after an FFL has been educated on the requirements of the laws and regulations and given an opportunity to voluntarily comply with them but has failed to do so. Violations commonly cited in revocation cases include failure to account for firearms, failure to verify and document purchaser eligibility, failure to maintain records requisite for successful firearms tracing and failure to report multiple sales of handguns.
Only 7% of FFLs in 2015 were auditied. Less than 10,000 of the above number if it held true.
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/gun-store-atf-inspection/
I'm sure there's more information here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/03/us/atf-gun-store-violations.html
"Responsible" until they're not.
“Interesting” until it is not09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.91 - Ames Iowa CY Stephens Auditorium
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula0 -
The laws are only as good as the people regulating those laws. If the ATF is just letting the negligent get away with this stuff, then the ATF is what needs to get fixed first.oftenreading said:Pro-fun folks during discussion - “I’m all for stronger background checks and better enforcement of laws around gun purchases”
Pro-gun folks when provided information on inadequate background checks and violations of gun purchase laws - “ehhh, it’s only record keeping.... not very interesting”
The ATF is just another mishandled government entity...which is pretty much the same old song and dance...
Not very interesting.0 -
Well, that solves it, let's just do nothing at all because people will still commit murder.blackhawks said:Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.
Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24 / Raleigh I 25 / Raleigh II 25 / Pittsburgh I 250 -
Well, I didn't even say that. For fuck's sake some of you are so fucking miserable. All I stated is you cannot legislate hate, anger, etc. away. If you would care to read up about 15-20 posts you would see that I am exactly in the same mindset of limiting things like assault weapons. Get a grip you jumping to conclusions dolt.HesCalledDyer said:
Well, that solves it, let's just do nothing at all because people will still commit murder.blackhawks said:Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.91 - Ames Iowa CY Stephens Auditorium
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula0 -
Gee, somebody sounds really angry.blackhawks said:
Well, I didn't even say that. For fuck's sake some of you are so fucking miserable. All I stated is you cannot legislate hate, anger, etc. away. If you would care to read up about 15-20 posts you would see that I am exactly in the same mindset of limiting things like assault weapons. Get a grip you jumping to conclusions dolt.HesCalledDyer said:
Well, that solves it, let's just do nothing at all because people will still commit murder.blackhawks said:Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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I've got a grip, no need to name call.
Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24 / Raleigh I 25 / Raleigh II 25 / Pittsburgh I 250 -
Naw. Just tired of people knee jerking to reactions when a simple scroll of the mouse would solve that.Halifax2TheMax said:
Gee, somebody sounds really angry.blackhawks said:
Well, I didn't even say that. For fuck's sake some of you are so fucking miserable. All I stated is you cannot legislate hate, anger, etc. away. If you would care to read up about 15-20 posts you would see that I am exactly in the same mindset of limiting things like assault weapons. Get a grip you jumping to conclusions dolt.HesCalledDyer said:
Well, that solves it, let's just do nothing at all because people will still commit murder.blackhawks said:Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.91 - Ames Iowa CY Stephens Auditorium
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula0 -
(geez, why do people keep thinking it's acceptable to make comments about people's lives or emotional state just because of regular comments they make? Why would a comment like Dyer's mean he or others are fucking miserable? That doesn't even make sense)blackhawks said:
Well, I didn't even say that. For fuck's sake some of you are so fucking miserable. All I stated is you cannot legislate hate, anger, etc. away. If you would care to read up about 15-20 posts you would see that I am exactly in the same mindset of limiting things like assault weapons. Get a grip you jumping to conclusions dolt.HesCalledDyer said:
Well, that solves it, let's just do nothing at all because people will still commit murder.blackhawks said:Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.
Back to the subject, I don't think anyone has ever claimed that hate and anger can be legislated away.
I've never personally understood the point in noting non-gun-related violence when discussing gun regulation in America.
Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
No you don't or you wouldn't have made assumptions of me. I don't think anyone appreciates that FYI.HesCalledDyer said:I've got a grip, no need to name call.91 - Ames Iowa CY Stephens Auditorium
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula0 -
As I stated above a ways, I do not see the need for guns with 30 rounds. Heck, or 10. Or pistols. None are used for hunting though I get there are pistol competitions. There seems to be a disconnect with society now with the urbanization and lack of people having concern or care of people packed like sardines into cities. And religion can play a part. There is always bad in the world and my significant other was robbed at knife point. Just the way the world is and there inso quick or easy fix.PJ_Soul said:
(geez, why do people keep thinking it's acceptable to make comments about people's lives or emotional state just because of regular comments they make? Why would a comment like Dyer's mean he or others are fucking miserable? That doesn't even make sense)blackhawks said:
Well, I didn't even say that. For fuck's sake some of you are so fucking miserable. All I stated is you cannot legislate hate, anger, etc. away. If you would care to read up about 15-20 posts you would see that I am exactly in the same mindset of limiting things like assault weapons. Get a grip you jumping to conclusions dolt.HesCalledDyer said:
Well, that solves it, let's just do nothing at all because people will still commit murder.blackhawks said:Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.
Back to the subject, I don't think anyone has ever claimed that hate and anger can be legislated away.
I've never personally understood the point in noting non-gun-related violence when discussing gun regulation in America.91 - Ames Iowa CY Stephens Auditorium
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula0 -
There is certainly no easy fix.... I'm not sure how long you've been reading posts in the AMT, so maybe you know my perspective already... I think guns are stupid unless they have a real purpose, like hunting (which I don't approve of but know will continue), or when used by professionals in policing or security or the military. I think guns as a hobby or sport is just stupid because it simply makes guns "cool" and fun, which seems like a terrible idea. I do think more common sense gun regulation, mainly to do with licensing, is needed and would help, but ultimately, I think America's problem is its crazy gun culture. I think that is the main thing that creates all these problems in American and not anywhere else. And for that American gun fetish to stop, it will take many generations, and that's only if there is an effort towards it. So yeah, gun control can help the problem, but nothing like that is going to bring America's gun problem down to manageable levels as long as its weird gun culture persists. Anything that leads younger generations to think of guns as an odd and wholly unnecessary thing to use or own just for fun, or out of paranoia, or because it makes them feel tough, or whatever, will be a step in the right direction. Once most people think a guy carrying a gun around is just a complete douchebag or a dangerous weirdo, the US will be on the right track.blackhawks said:
As I stated above a ways, I do not see the need for guns with 30 rounds. Heck, or 10. Or pistols. None are used for hunting though I get there are pistol competitions. There seems to be a disconnect with society now with the urbanization and lack of people having concern or care of people packed like sardines into cities. And religion can play a part. There is always bad in the world and my significant other was robbed at knife point. Just the way the world is and there inso quick or easy fix.PJ_Soul said:
(geez, why do people keep thinking it's acceptable to make comments about people's lives or emotional state just because of regular comments they make? Why would a comment like Dyer's mean he or others are fucking miserable? That doesn't even make sense)blackhawks said:
Well, I didn't even say that. For fuck's sake some of you are so fucking miserable. All I stated is you cannot legislate hate, anger, etc. away. If you would care to read up about 15-20 posts you would see that I am exactly in the same mindset of limiting things like assault weapons. Get a grip you jumping to conclusions dolt.HesCalledDyer said:
Well, that solves it, let's just do nothing at all because people will still commit murder.blackhawks said:Out of curiosity....anyone ever read papers like Manchester Evening News and see the brutality of murders there? Without guns? I am just looking for MU info and I have to go to the front page and there is daily, some brutal stabbing, baseball bat, etc. murder there. So yes you can stop gun murders by taking guns but you are not going to stop people from killing. Just like you are not going to stop mass killings if they want to drive a truck through a crowd. You cannot legislate everything.
Back to the subject, I don't think anyone has ever claimed that hate and anger can be legislated away.
I've never personally understood the point in noting non-gun-related violence when discussing gun regulation in America.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
This discussion has been closed.
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