America's Gun Violence

1497498500502503543

Comments

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,431
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    What, specifically? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    What, specifically? 
    I already stated. our expectations of one group simply don't allign with those of another because they are of different political/theological persuasion. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,431
    You didn’t show “many parallels”; you made one comparison that I think is invalid because it does not compare like expectations to like. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,417
    Another “responsible” gun owner.

    https://apple.news/As_hlJfFmTIe2161--OqOOA
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,480
    I don't get why hunting is an excuse for some people to justify their ownership of guns.  Wildlife must be proliferating like crazy, right?  Did something happen while I wasn't watching?

    I didn't think so.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,733
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    What, specifically? 
    I already stated. our expectations of one group simply don't allign with those of another because they are of different political/theological persuasion. 
    I think you are correct.  Different weapons, same results.

    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,673
    we can make a modest start in repealing federal law prohibiting government funded research into guns and gun violence.
    this should include reporting requirements of all local state and fedral(including nonservice connected incidents among military personnel)  incidents


    maybe one of these antigun orgs or philanthropists can privately fund this peer reviewed research as well
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,417
    mickeyrat said:
    we can make a modest start in repealing federal law prohibiting government funded research into guns and gun violence.
    this should include reporting requirements of all local state and fedral(including nonservice connected incidents among military personnel)  incidents


    maybe one of these antigun orgs or philanthropists can privately fund this peer reviewed research as well
    I’m sure Michael Bloomberg would pony up. Maybe Bill and Melinda or Soros.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,296
    mickeyrat said:
    we can make a modest start in repealing federal law prohibiting government funded research into guns and gun violence.
    this should include reporting requirements of all local state and fedral(including nonservice connected incidents among military personnel)  incidents


    maybe one of these antigun orgs or philanthropists can privately fund this peer reviewed research as well
    I’m sure Michael Bloomberg would pony up. Maybe Bill and Melinda or Soros.
    Because that wouldn't be biased.  Should go over real well.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,431
    mickeyrat said:
    we can make a modest start in repealing federal law prohibiting government funded research into guns and gun violence.
    this should include reporting requirements of all local state and fedral(including nonservice connected incidents among military personnel)  incidents


    maybe one of these antigun orgs or philanthropists can privately fund this peer reviewed research as well
    I’m sure Michael Bloomberg would pony up. Maybe Bill and Melinda or Soros.
    Because that wouldn't be biased.  Should go over real well.
    Then the studies just need to be properly designed and conducted. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,417
    mickeyrat said:
    we can make a modest start in repealing federal law prohibiting government funded research into guns and gun violence.
    this should include reporting requirements of all local state and fedral(including nonservice connected incidents among military personnel)  incidents


    maybe one of these antigun orgs or philanthropists can privately fund this peer reviewed research as well
    I’m sure Michael Bloomberg would pony up. Maybe Bill and Melinda or Soros.
    Because that wouldn't be biased.  Should go over reamickeyrat said:
    Why would that be biased? They could reimburse the CDC, FBI or CRS or pay for the collection of data that then could be open sourced and made available to universities, gun control organizations and god forbid the NRA. Do you see the Koch Brothers funding it? 
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,417
    Quote feature fucked up again. Sigh.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,673
    mickeyrat said:
    we can make a modest start in repealing federal law prohibiting government funded research into guns and gun violence.
    this should include reporting requirements of all local state and fedral(including nonservice connected incidents among military personnel)  incidents


    maybe one of these antigun orgs or philanthropists can privately fund this peer reviewed research as well
    I’m sure Michael Bloomberg would pony up. Maybe Bill and Melinda or Soros.
    Because that wouldn't be biased.  Should go over real well.
    Then the studies just need to be properly designed and conducted. 
    right, peer reviewed
    .....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 11,960
    edited May 11
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    What, specifically? 
    I already stated. our expectations of one group simply don't allign with those of another because they are of different political/theological persuasion. 

    Yeah, we can legalize nuclear bombs and 99% of the population can be trusted not to set off their nuclear bomb.  That doesn't mean we should legalize nukes.    YEah, we can trust 99% of gun owners to not murder somebody but do they need the guns in the first place?  Is the benefit that gun owners get from their weapons enough to compensate for all the negatives that gun victims and their families deal with?  I don't have gun and maybe I just don't understand what I've been missing.

    Yeah, we can trust 99% of Muslims not to be terrorists, but what is the simple action to take like taking a gun from a box in someone's closet?   How do you change an ideology as easily as taking an object that is total unnecessary to someone's daily life?

    Post edited by bootlegger10 on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,260
    A thousand guns were found in an LA mansion. Then the mystery deepened

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/8e9c352c8607a8a975d2b8664049b6653006accc/0_96_3360_2016/master/3360.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=009a0185129a0c785d32d80e80ec8977

    LMFAO...whoever lived here was prepared for war...

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,673
    A thousand guns were found in an LA mansion. Then the mystery deepened

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/8e9c352c8607a8a975d2b8664049b6653006accc/0_96_3360_2016/master/3360.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=009a0185129a0c785d32d80e80ec8977

    LMFAO...whoever lived here was prepared for war...

    this is old.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,260
    mickeyrat said:
    A thousand guns were found in an LA mansion. Then the mystery deepened

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/8e9c352c8607a8a975d2b8664049b6653006accc/0_96_3360_2016/master/3360.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=009a0185129a0c785d32d80e80ec8977

    LMFAO...whoever lived here was prepared for war...

    this is old.
    The article was dated May 11 and the tweet May 9...thanks for your input, it was very helpful...LMFAO
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,673
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,417
    mickeyrat said:
    How does that “help,” and what’s “old” about it?

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/us/massive-seizure-of-guns-la-trnd/index.html

    Seems to be two different people and two separate cases, separated by a couple of years? Maybe what’s old and archaic is that someone in the US can still amass such an arsenal and it’s so easily dismissed as routine or no biggie?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,417
    Just another “responsible” gun owner being responsible and likely not held “responsible.” It was “just an accident.” He “didn’t mean it.” He’s “suffered enough.”

    https://apple.news/AwSBRoQlfR1CH3ayRhuORjQ
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    What, specifically? 
    I already stated. our expectations of one group simply don't allign with those of another because they are of different political/theological persuasion. 

    Yeah, we can legalize nuclear bombs and 99% of the population can be trusted not to set off their nuclear bomb.  That doesn't mean we should legalize nukes.    YEah, we can trust 99% of gun owners to not murder somebody but do they need the guns in the first place?  Is the benefit that gun owners get from their weapons enough to compensate for all the negatives that gun victims and their families deal with?  I don't have gun and maybe I just don't understand what I've been missing.

    Yeah, we can trust 99% of Muslims not to be terrorists, but what is the simple action to take like taking a gun from a box in someone's closet?   How do you change an ideology as easily as taking an object that is total unnecessary to someone's daily life?

    i'm not sure where all this came from. this has nothing to do with my original statement. i abhor guns. in a perfect world, they'd be illegal. 

    all i said was, we have different expectations of groups where a very small portion of said group commits heinous acts. for gun owners, when a mass shooting happens, we expect them to bend over backwards to fix the problem. when an extremist kills a bunch of people, the right calls for muslims to condemn them and stand up and do something about it. the left says it isn't their responsibility. 

    often says i'm comparing apples to oranges (paraphrasing), but i'm just talking about our expectations of the moral obligations of groups of people seem to be different depending on our views of each group. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,431
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    What, specifically? 
    I already stated. our expectations of one group simply don't allign with those of another because they are of different political/theological persuasion. 

    Yeah, we can legalize nuclear bombs and 99% of the population can be trusted not to set off their nuclear bomb.  That doesn't mean we should legalize nukes.    YEah, we can trust 99% of gun owners to not murder somebody but do they need the guns in the first place?  Is the benefit that gun owners get from their weapons enough to compensate for all the negatives that gun victims and their families deal with?  I don't have gun and maybe I just don't understand what I've been missing.

    Yeah, we can trust 99% of Muslims not to be terrorists, but what is the simple action to take like taking a gun from a box in someone's closet?   How do you change an ideology as easily as taking an object that is total unnecessary to someone's daily life?

    i'm not sure where all this came from. this has nothing to do with my original statement. i abhor guns. in a perfect world, they'd be illegal. 

    all i said was, we have different expectations of groups where a very small portion of said group commits heinous acts. for gun owners, when a mass shooting happens, we expect them to bend over backwards to fix the problem. when an extremist kills a bunch of people, the right calls for muslims to condemn them and stand up and do something about it. the left says it isn't their responsibility. 

    often says i'm comparing apples to oranges (paraphrasing), but i'm just talking about our expectations of the moral obligations of groups of people seem to be different depending on our views of each group. 
    No, you’re not getting it. It’s got nothing to do with expectations of condemnation. I am not asking gun owners to condemn the actions of those who commit gun violence. I’m fact, I’m sick of the useless condemnation without action. What I want is for gun owners to be willing to take ACTION that will make actual change, by lobbying for and voting for effective gun control measures. 

    Similarly, I have no interest in expecting muslims to condemn terrorism. First, they are already doing that, from what I’ve seen, but again what does that actually do? So my question to you, again, that you haven’t addressed, is what do think the comparable ask is for the Muslim community that they aren’t already doing? I don’t see a legislative fix for that, but clearly gun control requires a legislative fix. 

    That’s why I think your comparison is invalid. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,431
    And of course, all of the above is separate from the ridiculous notion that you can equate possession of an inanimate, unnecessary object with a core feature of a person’s identity and culture. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    I mean, I'll probably get thrashed from the "false equivalency" crowd, but why, as liberals, do we:

    -say it's not all muslims when a muslim carries out a terrorist attack, and when people lash out at the muslim community for not speaking up against muslim extremists, we say it's not their job to do so, because it's not really islam the terrorist is preaching, etc, yet...
    -when someone shoots up a school or a movie theatre, we liberals expect gun owners to step up and fix the gun problem?
    Because the issues are completely different. 

    With gun control, we expect and hope that gun owners, the so-called good guys, will advocate for effective gun legislation that will help to reduce gun violence.

    With terrorist attacks, what sort of legislative change are we expecting or hoping that Muslims would lobby for? What do you see making a difference? I don’t recall actually seeing the Muslim community argue against laws regarding terrorism or taking a pro-terrorism stance the way that gun owners take a pro-gun stance. 

    Both are societal issues, but I see the two groups reacting quite differently in their responses. 
    I see many parallels.  
    What, specifically? 
    I already stated. our expectations of one group simply don't allign with those of another because they are of different political/theological persuasion. 

    Yeah, we can legalize nuclear bombs and 99% of the population can be trusted not to set off their nuclear bomb.  That doesn't mean we should legalize nukes.    YEah, we can trust 99% of gun owners to not murder somebody but do they need the guns in the first place?  Is the benefit that gun owners get from their weapons enough to compensate for all the negatives that gun victims and their families deal with?  I don't have gun and maybe I just don't understand what I've been missing.

    Yeah, we can trust 99% of Muslims not to be terrorists, but what is the simple action to take like taking a gun from a box in someone's closet?   How do you change an ideology as easily as taking an object that is total unnecessary to someone's daily life?

    i'm not sure where all this came from. this has nothing to do with my original statement. i abhor guns. in a perfect world, they'd be illegal. 

    all i said was, we have different expectations of groups where a very small portion of said group commits heinous acts. for gun owners, when a mass shooting happens, we expect them to bend over backwards to fix the problem. when an extremist kills a bunch of people, the right calls for muslims to condemn them and stand up and do something about it. the left says it isn't their responsibility. 

    often says i'm comparing apples to oranges (paraphrasing), but i'm just talking about our expectations of the moral obligations of groups of people seem to be different depending on our views of each group. 
    No, you’re not getting it. It’s got nothing to do with expectations of condemnation. I am not asking gun owners to condemn the actions of those who commit gun violence. I’m fact, I’m sick of the useless condemnation without action. What I want is for gun owners to be willing to take ACTION that will make actual change, by lobbying for and voting for effective gun control measures. 

    Similarly, I have no interest in expecting muslims to condemn terrorism. First, they are already doing that, from what I’ve seen, but again what does that actually do? So my question to you, again, that you haven’t addressed, is what do think the comparable ask is for the Muslim community that they aren’t already doing? I don’t see a legislative fix for that, but clearly gun control requires a legislative fix. 

    That’s why I think your comparison is invalid. 
    i've already expressed it, and you can say i'm not getting it all you want, but i think you're ignoring what i'm actually saying. that's fine. moving on. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    And of course, all of the above is separate from the ridiculous notion that you can equate possession of an inanimate, unnecessary object with a core feature of a person’s identity and culture. 
    again, not what i was saying. but i've explained it enough. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,885
    mickeyrat said:
    we can make a modest start in repealing federal law prohibiting government funded research into guns and gun violence.
    this should include reporting requirements of all local state and fedral(including nonservice connected incidents among military personnel)  incidents


    maybe one of these antigun orgs or philanthropists can privately fund this peer reviewed research as well
    This.  If gun-lovers are so sure guns are not the problem, I would think that broad research into gun violence (not just the guns, but the psychology, etc.) would vindicate them.  Maybe it is "mental health."  Prohibiting government research, I have no choice but to believe, is an NRA-owned-politican-driven initiative because they fear the result. 

    Everyone, whatever they think of guns, should want to get to the bottom of a growing problem that's kinda unique to our country.  That seems like broad research and maybe the "exact truth" is hard to pin down...but "doing nothing" is not really getting it done.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,417
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,050
    Here s my thing, guns have been around forever.  For decades you could walk into a hardware store and buy a semi automatic weapon that was used in ww2 for $15 without any sort of background check. These weapons were literally in barrels and there were no school shootings. Shit my uncle bought a god damn bazooka in the 1960s lol.  
    So today we have the equivalent weapons being sold with background checks; so why are kids shooting up schools. What has changed?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,050
    What has changed?  Why are kids so angry that they result to killing? 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
Sign In or Register to comment.