America's Gun Violence

riotgrl

PJPOWER said:

riotgrl said:

Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters.  Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes.  I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools.  Do you know how many psychologists my school has?  1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids.  We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc.    We have no school nurses to care for our kids.  We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home??  I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids?  Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it.  All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids.  There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools.  That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.  

Did this school have the metal detectors, locked doors, armed personnel?  It may have, but I have not seen that reported.  
I know these regulations vary district by district and state by state.  I agree with pretty much everything else you said.  
I gather by reading your post that you feel lack of mental health treatment is the root cause?

I think that mental health issues play a role for some shootings but I do not think that applies to every situation.  I am all for gun control, background checks, mental health checks, gun registries and whatever we can do to keep people safe.  The second amendment is only a part of the Constitution - what about the general welfare, the common good?

As a teacher, I am a nurturer and the teachers that I know that aren't super nurturing are the very ones that want to be armed and they are the last ones that I would trust to tote a gun around my school.  That includes the 4 security guards that we have, 2 of whom are retired cops.  I believe that those 2 carry guns on to campus even though they are not supposed to do so at my school because they are not SRO's (school resource officers).  Those two men worry me and they are trained to have guns.  I understand that we don't live in an ideal world and that many of you are for arming people in schools, metal detectors, fences, gates, guards, etc. to keep kids safe but really, as someone said previously, this is NOT a police state.  Our schools should be places for our children to grow, blossom, and generally a positive, safe space.  I get it, fixing all those things I mentioned earlier are most likely not going to happen, but Jesus, when are we going to put kids first?  The ignorant moron that is the governor of my state blames violent video games and rap music and everything but the slashing of education and social services that he is doing.  He wants prayer in the school (already is here) and Bible classes taught because he thinks that will magically make up for the problems of poverty.  These other countries ban guns but in my mind they have something we don't have in this country and that is concern for our fellow citizens (of course, I don't mean everyone).  When poor people are demonized rather than helped, well, then, we get compounded problems that feel insurmountable.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

First things first: stop the introduction of more AR15s into circulation. Proceed from there.

PJPOWER

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

They will all need to open carry at the schools. Think about that. Your kids teachers will need to look like Wyatt Earp wandering the halls of your elementary.

I like how everyone acts like we have tried all of these measures and they have failed so the only solution is to arm and lockdown schools. We literally have tried zero actual measures to curb gun violence.

Wyatt Earp...really?  Maybe thinking that they would all need to look like “Wyatt Earp” is also the problem...
Why would they have to open carry?  Again, even a stun gun would be better than nothing at all.  You have got to have SOME type of defense.  If they want the pay increase, then they would have to go above and beyond in the training and actually run scenario based drills like the police and security guards do.  

PJPOWER

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

Exactly...

PJPOWER

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

First things first: stop the introduction of more AR15s into circulation. Proceed from there.

Snap fingers, make ar-15s go away, that’s your plan?  Come on man, even you are smart enough to know that is probably going to take YEARS.  Simple question, what realistically can be done NOW if in the crazy unlikelihood the snapping fingers method doesn’t work?

tbergs

PJPOWER said:

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

They will all need to open carry at the schools. Think about that. Your kids teachers will need to look like Wyatt Earp wandering the halls of your elementary.

I like how everyone acts like we have tried all of these measures and they have failed so the only solution is to arm and lockdown schools. We literally have tried zero actual measures to curb gun violence.

Wyatt Earp...really?  Maybe thinking that they would all need to look like “Wyatt Earp” is also the problem...
Why would they have to open carry?  Again, even a stun gun would be better than nothing at all.  You have got to have SOME type of defense.  If they want the pay increase, then they would have to go above and beyond in the training and actually run scenario based drills like the police and security guards do.  

Well, if you want them to be able to stop a threat at any time they will need to be carrying. I guess they could conceal, but that comes with it's own caveats. And honestly, they'll need more than a 9mm if they're expected to have a high probability to stop someone with an AR-15. On top of that, we want our teachers to not only be highly skilled educators, but take the time to train to be a proficient tactical response as well. Glad we have all this money to throw around. That teacher should be paid about $100,000 with those dual roles.

tbergs

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

First things first: stop the introduction of more AR15s into circulation. Proceed from there.

Snap fingers, make ar-15s go away, that’s your plan?  Come on man, even you are smart enough to know that is probably going to take YEARS.  Simple question, what realistically can be done NOW if in the crazy unlikelihood the snapping fingers method doesn’t work?

What doesn't take years? Do you think we can automatically arm all schools and teachers and have them be trained and proficient by fall 2018. AR-15 production could be ended by summer and then the take back could be started. It is not impossible if R's stand up to the gun lobby.

PJPOWER

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

They will all need to open carry at the schools. Think about that. Your kids teachers will need to look like Wyatt Earp wandering the halls of your elementary.

I like how everyone acts like we have tried all of these measures and they have failed so the only solution is to arm and lockdown schools. We literally have tried zero actual measures to curb gun violence.

Wyatt Earp...really?  Maybe thinking that they would all need to look like “Wyatt Earp” is also the problem...
Why would they have to open carry?  Again, even a stun gun would be better than nothing at all.  You have got to have SOME type of defense.  If they want the pay increase, then they would have to go above and beyond in the training and actually run scenario based drills like the police and security guards do.  

Well, if you want them to be able to stop a threat at any time they will need to be carrying. I guess they could conceal, but that comes with it's own caveats. And honestly, they'll need more than a 9mm if they're expected to have a high probability to stop someone with an AR-15. On top of that, we want our teachers to not only be highly skilled educators, but take the time to train to be a proficient tactical response as well. Glad we have all this money to throw around. That teacher should be paid about $100,000 with those dual roles.

You clearly know little about ballistics, a 9mm could easily stop someone with an ar-15, especially in close quarters, but that is beside the point. Anything is going to cost money...anything.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

First things first: stop the introduction of more AR15s into circulation. Proceed from there.

Snap fingers, make ar-15s go away, that’s your plan?  Come on man, even you are smart enough to know that is probably going to take YEARS.  Simple question, what realistically can be done NOW if in the crazy unlikelihood the snapping fingers method doesn’t work?

And if the change effort occurred when Sandy Hook happened... those years would have elapsed and maybe this event never occurred. What's done is done, but that doesn't mean do nothing about it because maybe it's too challenging.

Short term? Prepare for the worst.

Long term? Stop the distribution of the weapons. And large capacity magazines. And some other things (I'll let smarter people design the blueprint).

HesCalledDyer

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

Probably not.  The solution is simple, it's just a drastic one.  Drastic change for the better requires the will to act drastically for the better. Unfortunately, this administration's will is pointing in the polar opposite direction.

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

josevolution said:

I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...

I think that is a horrific idea.

More horrific than 17 bodies?

and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"

PJPOWER

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

First things first: stop the introduction of more AR15s into circulation. Proceed from there.

Snap fingers, make ar-15s go away, that’s your plan?  Come on man, even you are smart enough to know that is probably going to take YEARS.  Simple question, what realistically can be done NOW if in the crazy unlikelihood the snapping fingers method doesn’t work?

And if the change effort occurred when Sandy Hook happened... those years would have elapsed and maybe this event never occurred. What's done is done, but that doesn't mean do nothing about it because maybe it's too challenging.

Short term? Prepare for the worst.

Long term? Stop the distribution of the weapons. And large capacity magazines. And some other things (I'll let smarter people design the blueprint).

“Short term? Prepare for the worst”.  Yay, now we are getting somewhere!  Now what would “preparing for the worst” look like??

PJPOWER

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

josevolution said:

I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...

I think that is a horrific idea.

More horrific than 17 bodies?

and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"

Then the same thing happens to them that happens to police in that situation.  They get tried for murder.  That’s why good “training” is so important, to minimize those possibilities.

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

Kids are getting gunned down by the dozens and people want to worry about the psychological effects on society of locked doors?  How about the psychological effect of living in a society where mass shootings occur nearly every day?
We ain't fixing shit in this country so we'd better get real. 

My blood is boiling over on this issue and I'm not sorry.  People need to wake the fuck up and see reality for what it is.  

what you're doing is falling into the trap the republicans and the gun lobby want you to fall into. throw your hands up at them and try another fix that doesn't involve gun legislation. but i agree with pjsoul, and no, it's not about locked doors. it's much more than that. i wouldn't want my child growing up learning to read while looking contemplatively at the gun in their teacher's holster. it's not a nurturing environment to be in, and i think would go a long way to desensitize society further down the 'guns are just another part of life' rabbit hole. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

josevolution said:

I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...

I think that is a horrific idea.

More horrific than 17 bodies?

and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"

Then the same thing happens to them that happens to police in that situation.  They get tried for murder.  That’s why good “training” is so important, to minimize those possibilities.

teachers have it tough enough as it is. arming them and training them to deal with these situations is so far from the answer, i really can't even believe it's being seriously suggested and embraced. 

Gern Blansten

Crazy thing is....we will eventually have gun control.  There will be strict licensing and registration.  There will be bans on assault weapons and ammo.

It's just a matter of when.  

PJPOWER

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

josevolution said:

I say install metal detectors or at least have security guards at all schools searching everyone entering the school ...

I think that is a horrific idea.

More horrific than 17 bodies?

and then what happens when you have the first student to be murdered by a teacher? "i thought he was reaching for a gun! it turned out it was just his protractor!"

Then the same thing happens to them that happens to police in that situation.  They get tried for murder.  That’s why good “training” is so important, to minimize those possibilities.

teachers have it tough enough as it is. arming them and training them to deal with these situations is so far from the answer, i really can't even believe it's being seriously suggested and embraced. 

I respectfully disagree, but thanks for your opinion.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

You know what REALLY would have stopped the perp in his tracks?  Not being able to purchase and possess a god damn AR-15.

But I'm unqualified to speak in this thread, so pardon me while I go back to keeping my unreasonable and disrespectful comments to myself.

So how do we make that happen?
Do you think it's even possible in our current political climate?

First things first: stop the introduction of more AR15s into circulation. Proceed from there.

Snap fingers, make ar-15s go away, that’s your plan?  Come on man, even you are smart enough to know that is probably going to take YEARS.  Simple question, what realistically can be done NOW if in the crazy unlikelihood the snapping fingers method doesn’t work?

And if the change effort occurred when Sandy Hook happened... those years would have elapsed and maybe this event never occurred. What's done is done, but that doesn't mean do nothing about it because maybe it's too challenging.

Short term? Prepare for the worst.

Long term? Stop the distribution of the weapons. And large capacity magazines. And some other things (I'll let smarter people design the blueprint).

“Short term? Prepare for the worst”.  Yay, now we are getting somewhere!  Now what would “preparing for the worst” look like??

More school shootings that are inevitable given the lack of appropriate response by a negligent American government and public.

Metal detectors... armed guards... you know... the things you are suggesting as the answer to the problem.

Let's cut to the chase shall we? I'm hearing you loud and clear: you do not want any interruption to your hobby or way of life. You avoided answering my direct question to you and you did because you know an honest response is a poor response.

tbergs

PJPOWER said:

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

They will all need to open carry at the schools. Think about that. Your kids teachers will need to look like Wyatt Earp wandering the halls of your elementary.

I like how everyone acts like we have tried all of these measures and they have failed so the only solution is to arm and lockdown schools. We literally have tried zero actual measures to curb gun violence.

Wyatt Earp...really?  Maybe thinking that they would all need to look like “Wyatt Earp” is also the problem...
Why would they have to open carry?  Again, even a stun gun would be better than nothing at all.  You have got to have SOME type of defense.  If they want the pay increase, then they would have to go above and beyond in the training and actually run scenario based drills like the police and security guards do.  

Well, if you want them to be able to stop a threat at any time they will need to be carrying. I guess they could conceal, but that comes with it's own caveats. And honestly, they'll need more than a 9mm if they're expected to have a high probability to stop someone with an AR-15. On top of that, we want our teachers to not only be highly skilled educators, but take the time to train to be a proficient tactical response as well. Glad we have all this money to throw around. That teacher should be paid about $100,000 with those dual roles.

You clearly know little about ballistics, a 9mm could easily stop someone with an ar-15, especially in close quarters, but that is beside the point. Anything is going to cost money...anything.

I actually know quite a bit. Taking a 9mm to a gun fight with an AR-15 is a huge disadvantage. Replace 9 with 40 if you want. It's not about the caliber. Which gun can be shot more accurately and quicker? That's my point. Let's also consider that shooters have been known to wear body armor. Are the teachers going to start wearing body armor as well. C'mon, be real. This solution of arming teachers is dumb. Stop pretending it's to protect the kids when all it does is protect the gun lobby and right to own as many assault rifles and guns without restriction.

HughFreakingDillon

the shit i've been reading on twitter this morning from the right. all of a sudden it's a mental health issue. for decades the republicans refuted any claim that mental illness was actually a problem. as soon as they figured out they could use it as an excuse to deflect from the gun problem, voila, all of a sudden they agree it's a problem. disgusting people.