America's Gun Violence

Halifax2TheMax

I wonder if he got it at a gun show?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/13/man-arrested-after-a-3-year-old-shot-and-killed-a-1-year-old-with-his-gun-police-say/

Gern Blansten

Halifax2TheMax said:

I wonder if he got it at a gun show?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/13/man-arrested-after-a-3-year-old-shot-and-killed-a-1-year-old-with-his-gun-police-say/

The NRA will say that the 1 year old should have been carrying.

Gern Blansten

RYME said:

CM189191 said:

RYME said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

unsung said:

It used to be part of school curriculum.   Bring gun safety classes back, totally agree.

So who best to regulate that other than the state?  Issue state licenses for gun owners that reflect basic competency.  

If run through the DMV you wouldn't have much more admin cost since the brick and mortar already exists.

Some States already do, Illinois being one, Chicago is just getting worse.  Guns can’t be blamed, that is just a cop-out.  Nothing will change until people value life.  How do we get that done?

Yes, that's obviously the most reasonable explanation.  Other countries just value life more than the US does. 

Fun fact: The Second Amendment was ratified to preserve slavery

There is literally a direct line from the 2nd Amendment to devaluation of human life.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/people/indian-killer-andrew-jackson-deserves-top-spot-on-list-of-worst-us-presidents/
Read about the original founding days of the Democrat party.  Above
That is wrong sir the second amendment was not to ratify slavery, rather it was a put in place to allow the citizenry to be able to fight back against a tyrannical government.  Please read what the second amendment was actually for.
https://www.livescience.com/26485-second-amendment.html

Neither of the links you provide appear to be relevant to your point.

Also, your point is wrong. 

I can multitask.
The second amendment was to give the citizenry the right to keep and bear arms, so that they could fight back against a tyrannical government if need be.  The Second Amendment had nothing to do with preserving slavery. That fun fact listed above is simply wrong and was made up.
I mentioned Andrew Jackson simply because he was the founder of the Democrat Party, a big-time slave owner and a big-time Indian killer.
He should never have been put on the $20 bill.  Just ask any Native American what they think of him, and any African Americans who know the true history about slavery, who was for it and who was against it at the time, and who implemented it.

The "tyrannical government" argument is old and ridiculous.

Back then the TG would come at you with similar weapons.  Now the TG has tanks...tactical nukes...drones, etc.

Give that argument up.  Your pussy ass AR-15 isn't going to help you if the TG comes at you.

Bentleyspop

Halifax2TheMax said:

I wonder if he got it at a gun show?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/13/man-arrested-after-a-3-year-old-shot-and-killed-a-1-year-old-with-his-gun-police-say/

Guns don't  kill people......

Gun owners children kill people

tbergs

Gern Blansten said:

RYME said:

CM189191 said:

RYME said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

unsung said:

It used to be part of school curriculum.   Bring gun safety classes back, totally agree.

So who best to regulate that other than the state?  Issue state licenses for gun owners that reflect basic competency.  

If run through the DMV you wouldn't have much more admin cost since the brick and mortar already exists.

Some States already do, Illinois being one, Chicago is just getting worse.  Guns can’t be blamed, that is just a cop-out.  Nothing will change until people value life.  How do we get that done?

Yes, that's obviously the most reasonable explanation.  Other countries just value life more than the US does. 

Fun fact: The Second Amendment was ratified to preserve slavery

There is literally a direct line from the 2nd Amendment to devaluation of human life.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/people/indian-killer-andrew-jackson-deserves-top-spot-on-list-of-worst-us-presidents/
Read about the original founding days of the Democrat party.  Above
That is wrong sir the second amendment was not to ratify slavery, rather it was a put in place to allow the citizenry to be able to fight back against a tyrannical government.  Please read what the second amendment was actually for.
https://www.livescience.com/26485-second-amendment.html

Neither of the links you provide appear to be relevant to your point.

Also, your point is wrong. 

I can multitask.
The second amendment was to give the citizenry the right to keep and bear arms, so that they could fight back against a tyrannical government if need be.  The Second Amendment had nothing to do with preserving slavery. That fun fact listed above is simply wrong and was made up.
I mentioned Andrew Jackson simply because he was the founder of the Democrat Party, a big-time slave owner and a big-time Indian killer.
He should never have been put on the $20 bill.  Just ask any Native American what they think of him, and any African Americans who know the true history about slavery, who was for it and who was against it at the time, and who implemented it.

The "tyrannical government" argument is old and ridiculous.

Back then the TG would come at you with similar weapons.  Now the TG has tanks...tactical nukes...drones, etc.

Give that argument up.  Your pussy ass AR-15 isn't going to help you if the TG comes at you.

It is pretty stupid when you think about it. The odds that you even get a shot off before you are drone striked, MOAB'd, nuked, missile launched or hit with artillery from miles away is slim. But, having 20 AR-15s with 10000 rounds for yourself is necessary.

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

RYME said:

CM189191 said:

RYME said:

CM189191 said:

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

unsung said:

It used to be part of school curriculum.   Bring gun safety classes back, totally agree.

So who best to regulate that other than the state?  Issue state licenses for gun owners that reflect basic competency.  

If run through the DMV you wouldn't have much more admin cost since the brick and mortar already exists.

Some States already do, Illinois being one, Chicago is just getting worse.  Guns can’t be blamed, that is just a cop-out.  Nothing will change until people value life.  How do we get that done?

Yes, that's obviously the most reasonable explanation.  Other countries just value life more than the US does. 

Fun fact: The Second Amendment was ratified to preserve slavery

There is literally a direct line from the 2nd Amendment to devaluation of human life.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/people/indian-killer-andrew-jackson-deserves-top-spot-on-list-of-worst-us-presidents/
Read about the original founding days of the Democrat party.  Above
That is wrong sir the second amendment was not to ratify slavery, rather it was a put in place to allow the citizenry to be able to fight back against a tyrannical government.  Please read what the second amendment was actually for.
https://www.livescience.com/26485-second-amendment.html

Neither of the links you provide appear to be relevant to your point.

Also, your point is wrong. 

I can multitask.
The second amendment was to give the citizenry the right to keep and bear arms, so that they could fight back against a tyrannical government if need be.  The Second Amendment had nothing to do with preserving slavery. That fun fact listed above is simply wrong and was made up.
I mentioned Andrew Jackson simply because he was the founder of the Democrat Party, a big-time slave owner and a big-time Indian killer.
He should never have been put on the $20 bill.  Just ask any Native American what they think of him, and any African Americans who know the true history about slavery, who was for it and who was against it at the time, and who implemented it.

The "tyrannical government" argument is old and ridiculous.

Back then the TG would come at you with similar weapons.  Now the TG has tanks...tactical nukes...drones, etc.

Give that argument up.  Your pussy ass AR-15 isn't going to help you if the TG comes at you.

It is pretty stupid when you think about it. The odds that you even get a shot off before you are drone striked, MOAB'd, nuked, missile launched or hit with artillery from miles away is slim. But, having 20 AR-15s with 10000 rounds for yourself is necessary.

Beyond idiotic.  Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind....which are the situations a lot of the gun nuts try to use as justification.  Timothy McVeigh cited both as a reason for him blowing up that building.

Both were unfortunate but both could have been easily avoided had the gun nuts just obeyed the law.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Let's back it up to where it needs to be.

Debating which weapons might best serve the citizens of the US against a tyrannical government is ridiculous. The government is not planning on enslaving its citizens.

The pro gun side that trots this argument out would gain more respect from me if they maintained they needed these weapons in the event alien invaders were going to try and take over the world and they insist on being prepared for the martians.

mace1229

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

Yup, not a problem, those gun shows. 6 states have required background checks. Those other 44? Not an issue because, well, we all know everyone dealing in guns is by golly honest and not motivated by greed.

https://www.csgv.org/issues-archive/gun-show-loophole-faq/

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

No one is arguing that they are breaking state laws; in fact, exactly the opposite - they are following state laws that are far too lax. The concern is that private sellers without a federal license don't need to follow the usual background check rules. This applies at gun shows but also other venues, yes; it's just more visible and blatant at gun shows.

Would it make you feel better if we simply called it the "private sale loophole"? Because that's what it is. It's still ridiculous.

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

Yup, not a problem, those gun shows. 6 states have required background checks. Those other 44? Not an issue because, well, we all know everyone dealing in guns is by golly honest and not motivated by greed.

https://www.csgv.org/issues-archive/gun-show-loophole-faq/

The term "gun show loophole" implies that by selling/buying at a gun show they are exempt from certain rules. Its the state law that doesn't require a background check for ALL private party sales in those cases. Federal government doesn't even require it.
I'm for background checks and I've said so many times. I'd be for requiring a federal background check for all guns.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but you never answered my question. Why is your beef (and anyone else who doesn't like gun shows) with the gun show, when it is stale law that allows them to do it?

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

No one is arguing that they are breaking state laws; in fact, exactly the opposite - they are following state laws that are far too lax. The concern is that private sellers without a federal license don't need to follow the usual background check rules. This applies at gun shows but also other venues, yes; it's just more visible and blatant at gun shows.

Would it make you feel better if we simply called it the "private sale loophole"? Because that's what it is. It's still ridiculous.

actually, yes. It seems more accurate.
But there are some who do accuse gun shows of breaking law. I think it was Halifax who made the comment guns are sold out of the trunk of their car at a gun show.
The only 2 states I've ever lived in do require background checks for all sales. I've been to lots of gun shows and never once been offered to buy a gun without a check, or seen people selling guns under the table/out of the trunk of their car.
I agree it is ridiculous, but blame and target state law, not the gun shows.
I don;t know if there's been any studies, but it seems like having gun shows would prevent that illegal activity, if people have a convenient way to buy and sell guns legally, they will be less inclined to do it illegally. Make it too much of a hassle and I bet you'll see more going around the law. I would not consider background checks too much of a hassle, but banning gun shows might be. I know you didnt say it, but I also know there would be a lot of people who would be very happy to ban gun shows.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

Yup, not a problem, those gun shows. 6 states have required background checks. Those other 44? Not an issue because, well, we all know everyone dealing in guns is by golly honest and not motivated by greed.

https://www.csgv.org/issues-archive/gun-show-loophole-faq/

The term "gun show loophole" implies that by selling/buying at a gun show they are exempt from certain rules. Its the state law that doesn't require a background check for ALL private party sales in those cases. Federal government doesn't even require it.
I'm for background checks and I've said so many times. I'd be for requiring a federal background check for all guns.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but you never answered my question. Why is your beef (and anyone else who doesn't like gun shows) with the gun show, when it is stale law that allows them to do it?

the beef is that the states won't close the "loophole." The states, and the Congress, are hostage to the NRA and the gun lobby. Everyone rails against Chicago as having the strictest gun control measures but the highest rates of gun crime. Because the shangrala of Indianer has some of the most lax gun sale laws in the nation. There needs to be a minimum federal standard. 

In 1998, over 4,400 gun shows were conducted around the country. 478 were held in Texas alone.1  The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) estimates on average 2,500 – 5,000 gun shows are held annually. In general, between 25% to 50% of sellers are not licensed dealers.2  The access to anonymous sales and the availability of large numbers of secondhand guns makes gun shows attractive to criminals and other prohibited purchasers. A federal study found that 10% of guns used in crime by juveniles were sold either at a gun show or a flea market, and in 1999, gun shows were associated with approximately 26,000 firearms used in crime.3, 4

But State's rights! There's the beef.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

No one is arguing that they are breaking state laws; in fact, exactly the opposite - they are following state laws that are far too lax. The concern is that private sellers without a federal license don't need to follow the usual background check rules. This applies at gun shows but also other venues, yes; it's just more visible and blatant at gun shows.

Would it make you feel better if we simply called it the "private sale loophole"? Because that's what it is. It's still ridiculous.

actually, yes. It seems more accurate.
But there are some who do accuse gun shows of breaking law. I think it was Halifax who made the comment guns are sold out of the trunk of their car at a gun show.
The only 2 states I've ever lived in do require background checks for all sales. I've been to lots of gun shows and never once been offered to buy a gun without a check, or seen people selling guns under the table/out of the trunk of their car.
I agree it is ridiculous, but blame and target state law, not the gun shows.
I don;t know if there's been any studies, but it seems like having gun shows would prevent that illegal activity, if people have a convenient way to buy and sell guns legally, they will be less inclined to do it illegally. Make it too much of a hassle and I bet you'll see more going around the law. I would not consider background checks too much of a hassle, but banning gun shows might be. I know you didnt say it, but I also know there would be a lot of people who would be very happy to ban gun shows.

There you go again loosely throwing out that term "ban" again. I don't believe I've heard anyone arguing to "ban" gun shows. Gun show sales seem to be contributing to a lot of guns being used in crime. 4,400 gun shows = how many gun sales? = how many were all legal?

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

No one is arguing that they are breaking state laws; in fact, exactly the opposite - they are following state laws that are far too lax. The concern is that private sellers without a federal license don't need to follow the usual background check rules. This applies at gun shows but also other venues, yes; it's just more visible and blatant at gun shows.

Would it make you feel better if we simply called it the "private sale loophole"? Because that's what it is. It's still ridiculous.

actually, yes. It seems more accurate.
But there are some who do accuse gun shows of breaking law. I think it was Halifax who made the comment guns are sold out of the trunk of their car at a gun show.
The only 2 states I've ever lived in do require background checks for all sales. I've been to lots of gun shows and never once been offered to buy a gun without a check, or seen people selling guns under the table/out of the trunk of their car.
I agree it is ridiculous, but blame and target state law, not the gun shows.
I don;t know if there's been any studies, but it seems like having gun shows would prevent that illegal activity, if people have a convenient way to buy and sell guns legally, they will be less inclined to do it illegally. Make it too much of a hassle and I bet you'll see more going around the law. I would not consider background checks too much of a hassle, but banning gun shows might be. I know you didnt say it, but I also know there would be a lot of people who would be very happy to ban gun shows.

It's hard to reconcile all the endless insistence on "law abiding gun owners" with the comment "make it too much of a hassle and I bet you'll see more people going around the law".

And honestly, I'm a lot more concerned about appropriately regulating and managing guns and a lot less concerned about the convenience of people who want to buy more guns but don't want to put up with a background check. 

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

Yup, not a problem, those gun shows. 6 states have required background checks. Those other 44? Not an issue because, well, we all know everyone dealing in guns is by golly honest and not motivated by greed.

https://www.csgv.org/issues-archive/gun-show-loophole-faq/

The term "gun show loophole" implies that by selling/buying at a gun show they are exempt from certain rules. Its the state law that doesn't require a background check for ALL private party sales in those cases. Federal government doesn't even require it.
I'm for background checks and I've said so many times. I'd be for requiring a federal background check for all guns.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but you never answered my question. Why is your beef (and anyone else who doesn't like gun shows) with the gun show, when it is stale law that allows them to do it?

the beef is that the states won't close the "loophole." The states, and the Congress, are hostage to the NRA and the gun lobby. Everyone rails against Chicago as having the strictest gun control measures but the highest rates of gun crime. Because the shangrala of Indianer has some of the most lax gun sale laws in the nation. There needs to be a minimum federal standard. 

In 1998, over 4,400 gun shows were conducted around the country. 478 were held in Texas alone.1  The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) estimates on average 2,500 – 5,000 gun shows are held annually. In general, between 25% to 50% of sellers are not licensed dealers.2  The access to anonymous sales and the availability of large numbers of secondhand guns makes gun shows attractive to criminals and other prohibited purchasers. A federal study found that 10% of guns used in crime by juveniles were sold either at a gun show or a flea market, and in 1999, gun shows were associated with approximately 26,000 firearms used in crime.3, 4

But State's rights! There's the beef.

I would welcome background checks on all sale, but would not like to see gun shows go away. California does it very well, every gun show at a gun show in California requires a dealer and a check.
I only brought this up because it seems like so many accuse gun shows as being evil, when the problem isn't the gun show, its the state law. The term "gun show loophole" even implies the "loophole" only applies to gun shows, when in fact it applies to all private sales.
I have no issue changing state law.
I wouldn't want to see gun shows go away because think of a coin collector.
You may want a specific coin and go to 100 coin shops without finding one. And when you do, its probably grossly over priced. Or you can go to a coin show that has 500 vendors, find 4 or 5 of the coins you want at a much better price.
That's what a gun show is to me and most people I know who attend them.

Halifax2TheMax

Coins don’t kill people. Coin owners kill people.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

No one is arguing that they are breaking state laws; in fact, exactly the opposite - they are following state laws that are far too lax. The concern is that private sellers without a federal license don't need to follow the usual background check rules. This applies at gun shows but also other venues, yes; it's just more visible and blatant at gun shows.

Would it make you feel better if we simply called it the "private sale loophole"? Because that's what it is. It's still ridiculous.

Flea markets. You can buy a gun at a flea market for gawds sakes.

"I came across this beauty at the flea market by the Trump rally!" bragged Cletus brandishing his new gun to Jethro. "It was only $50."

"She's a peach" replied Jethro admiring the weapon while kicking at a turd.

Normally obtuse to non verbal cues, Cletus noted Jethro's admiration: "You wanna shoot that turd with my new gun?" he asked. 

"Could I?" Jethro asked in disbelief at his exceptional stroke of great fortune.

Cletus smiled- betraying tooth decay- and handed Jethro the gun. Jethro felt a stirring in his pants as he reached for the gun. Once it was in his hands, he felt three feet taller and 50 pounds of muscle heavier. "Prepare to die, turd" he exulted and took aim. 

mace1229

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

No one is arguing that they are breaking state laws; in fact, exactly the opposite - they are following state laws that are far too lax. The concern is that private sellers without a federal license don't need to follow the usual background check rules. This applies at gun shows but also other venues, yes; it's just more visible and blatant at gun shows.

Would it make you feel better if we simply called it the "private sale loophole"? Because that's what it is. It's still ridiculous.

Flea markets. You can buy a gun at a flea market for gawds sakes.

"I came across this beauty at the flea market by the Trump rally!" bragged Cletus brandishing his new gun to Jethro. "It was only $50."

"She's a peach" replied Jethro admiring the weapon while kicking at a turd.

Normally obtuse to non verbal cues, Cletus noted Jethro's admiration: "You wanna shoot that turd with my new gun?" he asked. 

"Could I?" Jethro asked in disbelief at his exceptional stroke of great fortune.

Cletus smiled- betraying tooth decay- and handed Jethro the gun. Jethro felt a stirring in his pants as he reached for the gun. Once it was in his hands, he felt three feet taller and 50 pounds of muscle heavier. "Prepare to die, turd" he exulted and took aim. 

Not in every state. I agree guns should not be sold at flea markets, and that is a law states should pass. Or even federal law to enter a federal data base.

And the rest is a good example of why little ever changes. 
When one group insults another, they become more protective. When gun owners are compared to simple-minded rednecks, it strengthens their belief that the second amendment will go away.
For the record I don't believe that will happen. But when reading through these posts with the anti-gun comments I can justify why some do.
And if that is your interpretation of a typical gun owner, why wouldn't you want to ban guns? Fortunately, that is not very accurate.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

There's a lot of bashing about gun shows, and its always a main point when politicians debate gun control.

Can anyone explain to me the issue? I've been to lots of gun shows, and I have never seen a "loophole" for them, and never heard hard of it outside a political debate.
Gun shows are required to follow state laws. If a state requires a dealer to complete the transfer and  waiting period, buying a gun at a gun show doesn't prevent that.
If you can go to a gun show and walk out with a gun without any background check, then it is state law that permits private party transfers like that, and no loophole with the gun show. And that same "loop hole" would exist for any private party transfer whether at a gunshow or not.

Sales at gun shows are very professional, at least in my experience. There's no guys selling guns out of the trunk of their cars, people selling guns illegally, its all by the books. If you have a problem then it is with the state law and not the gun show.

No one is arguing that they are breaking state laws; in fact, exactly the opposite - they are following state laws that are far too lax. The concern is that private sellers without a federal license don't need to follow the usual background check rules. This applies at gun shows but also other venues, yes; it's just more visible and blatant at gun shows.

Would it make you feel better if we simply called it the "private sale loophole"? Because that's what it is. It's still ridiculous.

Flea markets. You can buy a gun at a flea market for gawds sakes.

"I came across this beauty at the flea market by the Trump rally!" bragged Cletus brandishing his new gun to Jethro. "It was only $50."

"She's a peach" replied Jethro admiring the weapon while kicking at a turd.

Normally obtuse to non verbal cues, Cletus noted Jethro's admiration: "You wanna shoot that turd with my new gun?" he asked. 

"Could I?" Jethro asked in disbelief at his exceptional stroke of great fortune.

Cletus smiled- betraying tooth decay- and handed Jethro the gun. Jethro felt a stirring in his pants as he reached for the gun. Once it was in his hands, he felt three feet taller and 50 pounds of muscle heavier. "Prepare to die, turd" he exulted and took aim. 

Not in every state. I agree guns should not be sold at flea markets, and that is a law states should pass. Or even federal law to enter a federal data base.

And the rest is a good example of why little ever changes. 
When one group insults another, they become more protective. When gun owners are compared to simple-minded rednecks, it strengthens their belief that the second amendment will go away.
For the record I don't believe that will happen. But when reading through these posts with the anti-gun comments I can justify why some do.
And if that is your interpretation of a typical gun owner, why wouldn't you want to ban guns? Fortunately, that is not very accurate.

Just keep throwing out that irrational fear that guns will be "banned" en mass. Only 6 states require background checks at gun shows and you still claim its the State's fault and not a "loophole" while trying to make a comparison with coin shops. Meanwhile, comparing your personal experience with gun shows as if that is somehow the norm, despite evidence to the contrary. I think you reside in California, one of the 6 states with background checks for gun shows. This is why nothing changes, not because of a post on a band's message board poking fun at gun owners. Wayne LaPierre was for it before he was against it.