The axis doesn't show, but this is 86 to 2015 from the ATF. Someone want to tell me it's just correlation not causation? Or is it possible the wave of violence we have seen over the past decade + is related to the volume?
Are you suggesting that more guns made in the US causes more shootings? Why can't it be the other way? Increased guns manufactured is caused by an increase in gun culture? And an increase in gun culture causes more shootings?
That can be true, it's just one step ahead in the process. I have no data to analyze 'gun culture'. That's fairly subjective. Manufacturing is driven by demand. That's quantifiable. And yes, I do not think it's correlation, I think it's causation.
I would think, as any company would, gun manufactures create based on demand. The demand isn't created by simply making more guns, but more guns are made because the demand is there. Therefore making fewer guns wouldn't suddenly diminish this demand, since the demand exists for another reason other than simply more guns being manufactured. I actually believe the spike is caused by something else; Obama. He was farther left than other presidents before him, so people thought gun restrictions were going in increase and it set the trend of "buy your guns now while you can." It's not his fault, but that's what happened. Particularly in liberal states like California. I haven't lived there for several years, but I think California implemented a new ban or restrictions on guns, so it isn't completely irrational to have believed that. Of course when you ban or restrict something the sales are going to spike. If Colorado bans marijuana in January 2019, December will be record "high" sales. Its hard to tell without it being labeled, but I'm guess that valley in the middle were the Bush years, and the spike before that was during Clinton. Democrats are great for gun sales.
You have true statements mixed with untrue here.
First, I stated that the spike in manufacturing is driven by demand. I Agree with your statement. I also agree that it was driven be Obama fear, earlier just a few posts up. What is not backed by information is that Obama is more left than previous presidents. There are many issues where Johnson, jfk, Roosevelt and even Ike are to the left of Obama. Clinton successfully banned assault weapons for a decade.
The difference is the effectiveness of the NRA propaganda.
The axis doesn't show, but this is 86 to 2015 from the ATF. Someone want to tell me it's just correlation not causation? Or is it possible the wave of violence we have seen over the past decade + is related to the volume?
Are you suggesting that more guns made in the US causes more shootings? Why can't it be the other way? Increased guns manufactured is caused by an increase in gun culture? And an increase in gun culture causes more shootings?
That can be true, it's just one step ahead in the process. I have no data to analyze 'gun culture'. That's fairly subjective. Manufacturing is driven by demand. That's quantifiable. And yes, I do not think it's correlation, I think it's causation.
I would think, as any company would, gun manufactures create based on demand. The demand isn't created by simply making more guns, but more guns are made because the demand is there. Therefore making fewer guns wouldn't suddenly diminish this demand, since the demand exists for another reason other than simply more guns being manufactured. I actually believe the spike is caused by something else; Obama. He was farther left than other presidents before him, so people thought gun restrictions were going in increase and it set the trend of "buy your guns now while you can." It's not his fault, but that's what happened. Particularly in liberal states like California. I haven't lived there for several years, but I think California implemented a new ban or restrictions on guns, so it isn't completely irrational to have believed that. Of course when you ban or restrict something the sales are going to spike. If Colorado bans marijuana in January 2019, December will be record "high" sales. Its hard to tell without it being labeled, but I'm guess that valley in the middle were the Bush years, and the spike before that was during Clinton. Democrats are great for gun sales.
You have true statements mixed with untrue here.
First, I stated that the spike in manufacturing is driven by demand. I Agree with your statement. I also agree that it was driven be Obama fear, earlier just a few posts up. What is not backed by information is that Obama is more left than previous presidents. There are many issues where Johnson, jfk, Roosevelt and even Ike are to the left of Obama. Clinton successfully banned assault weapons for a decade.
The difference is the effectiveness of the NRA propaganda.
I agree that Obama’s liberalism has been significantly overblown by the right for propaganda purposes.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I don't expect a reasonable answer, but maybe I'll be surprised
The same as a sports car, off road vehicle, motorcycle, ATV, ninja sword, yacht, etc.
They all bring someone pleasure.
Shooting a gun is a lot of fun when in the proper environment.
What it also does is gives the person a sense of safety in that if shit hits the fan, you have a chance at defending yourself and your family.
It is also backed by the constitution. No the constitution never said the AR or AK or UZI but there have been cases for the right to bear arms have held up in court.
So let's talk about having fun... you having fun at the range means these highly lethal weapons should be available to the public? Does your fun outweigh our collective safety?
I also have a constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... I think those kids at Parkland would say those rights were infringed upon, no? Does the 2A trump those rights?
Also... all of my 2A fans... you realize it doesn't give you the right to own these weapons, according to the supreme court, right?
Connecticut banned the possession and sale of many semi automatic rifles such as the AR 15 in 2013 after Sandy Hook and made it a crime... And the US Supreme court refused to hear the challenge brought against it, effectively upholding the right of the state to ban them... this was after the 2nd Circuit upheld the ban
Your mighty 2A does not guarantee you the right to these weapons, and is not as Teflon a defense as you think
It just feels great to not have any guns rifles or weapons in my house and I won’t even socialize with folks who are pro gun I’ve learned a lot about people who are pro gun from this thread , I don’t want anything to do with such folks ...
I don't expect a reasonable answer, but maybe I'll be surprised
The same as a sports car, off road vehicle, motorcycle, ATV, ninja sword, yacht, etc.
They all bring someone pleasure.
Shooting a gun is a lot of fun when in the proper environment.
What it also does is gives the person a sense of safety in that if shit hits the fan, you have a chance at defending yourself and your family.
It is also backed by the constitution. No the constitution never said the AR or AK or UZI but there have been cases for the right to bear arms have held up in court.
So let's talk about having fun... you having fun at the range means these highly lethal weapons should be available to the public? Does your fun outweigh our collective safety?
I also have a constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... I think those kids at Parkland would say those rights were infringed upon, no? Does the 2A trump those rights?
Also... all of my 2A fans... you realize it doesn't give you the right to own these weapons, according to the supreme court, right?
Connecticut banned the possession and sale of many semi automatic rifles such as the AR 15 in 2013 after Sandy Hook and made it a crime... And the US Supreme court refused to hear the challenge brought against it, effectively upholding the right of the state to ban them... this was after the 2nd Circuit upheld the ban
Your mighty 2A does not guarantee you the right to these weapons, and is not as Teflon a defense as you think
Look, we don't agree.
I gave you an answers, you didn't like it, sorry, not sorry.
This is a topic that you and I will never have a compromise on and for that I am sorry.
It just feels great to not have any guns rifles or weapons in my house and I won’t even socialize with folks who are pro gun I’ve learned a lot about people who are pro gun from this thread , I don’t want anything to do with such folks ...
We've attended 2 concerts together and had a great time. You'd never, ever had known I was pro gun other than in this thread.
Im pro gun but not a member of the NRA. My family considers me a liberal for my political views. I can go on and on how one thing has nothing to do with the other and for you to think I'm a bad person because of one belief now hurts me.
I'm more then willing to compromise... my immediate position is simple... I think AR 15 and similar weapons should not be available to the public... I think there should be restrictions on capacity and certain forms of ammo... a short waiting period to allow thorough background checks with improved criteria & vetting... how about a mandatory safety class for first time gun buyers? can people on the terrorist watch list still buy guns? if so, thats a no brainer
I think a reasonable and knowledgeable gun owner/advocate would agree with most of that
While in the perfect world I would personally do the same with handguns, I realize that's not happening in my lifetim, and im interested in real progress, so im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater... so feel free to keep shotguns, certain rifles, and handguns... go have fun at the range, go bag a deer, enjoy your hobby.... but please support some common sense changes, the country needs it desperately
I'm more then willing to compromise... my immediate position is simple... I think AR 15 and similar weapons should not be available to the public... I think there should be restrictions on capacity and certain forms of ammo... a short waiting period to allow thorough background checks with improved criteria & vetting... how about a mandatory safety class for first time gun buyers? can people on the terrorist watch list still buy guns? if so, thats a no brainer
I think a reasonable and knowledgeable gun owner/advocate would agree with most of that
While in the perfect world I would personally do the same with handguns, I realize that's not happening in my lifetim, and im interested in real progress, so im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater... so feel free to keep shotguns, certain rifles, and handguns... go have fun at the range, go bag a deer, enjoy your hobby.... but please support some common sense changes, the country needs it desperately
The terrorist watch list and due process are a slippery slope. What restrictions would you put on ammo?
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I'd actually prepared a reasonable one. I deleted it.
I've always supported his alternative point of view and stressed how valuable it was to these threads; but I can't honestly say that's the case right now.
The sad part is that he isn’t trolling, trolls are self aware by definition. Unsung shows no signs of self awareness of his lunacy in the way that past trolls like JC, PJfan and Godfather have. Those people admitted several times to poking the liberal bear that this forum tends to be. Unsung sees himself as being some sort of champion of balance by posting his true, often asinine, views.
I'm willing to compromise too. Don't make any kind of AR or AK weapons available to the public AND MAKE every single gun owner take a 40 hour gun safety course that is mandatory every 5 or 8 years. And register every gun so that EVERY responsible gun owner can be held accountable for the actions of that gun. Including reporting it stolen asap.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
The dude staring down the barrel of his rifle always blows me away. The fat guy firing off multiple rounds always cracks me up.
I kind of like the unsuspecting people that hold the hand guns with a limp wrist only to have it kick back into their forehead or nose.
Geniuses.
Those are funny, but scary as hell to watch. Bones are broken so easily when those things fly back into their faces. I always think their finger will get caught on the trigger and they'll shoot themselves in the face.
I'm pretty sure I remember watching a video where a genius looks down the barrel,of a gun and it fires. Taking the guys hat off. I think that is what you're referring to 30. Right?
It's amazing how this woman needed only a handgun and not an AK-47 Or AR-15 to protect herself from 3 burglars. I suppose if they had bazookas, an ak would be appropriate. But I'm still guessing the handgun would still stop them.
I'm more then willing to compromise... my immediate position is simple... I think AR 15 and similar weapons should not be available to the public... I think there should be restrictions on capacity and certain forms of ammo... a short waiting period to allow thorough background checks with improved criteria & vetting... how about a mandatory safety class for first time gun buyers? can people on the terrorist watch list still buy guns? if so, thats a no brainer
I think a reasonable and knowledgeable gun owner/advocate would agree with most of that
While in the perfect world I would personally do the same with handguns, I realize that's not happening in my lifetim, and im interested in real progress, so im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater... so feel free to keep shotguns, certain rifles, and handguns... go have fun at the range, go bag a deer, enjoy your hobby.... but please support some common sense changes, the country needs it desperately
The terrorist watch list and due process are a slippery slope. What restrictions would you put on ammo?
What about the terrorist watch list bothers you? It seems to me if they have enough concern about you that you're not allowed on an airplane, you shouldn't be able to purchase a gun.
Everybody in this country has to be tested and licensed to drive a vehicle, it seems like common sense the same should apply to gun owners. I also have to register and insure my vehicle, which I also think would be reasonable for gun owners.
I'm willing to compromise too. Don't make any kind of AR or AK weapons available to the public AND MAKE every single gun owner take a 40 hour gun safety course that is mandatory every 5 or 8 years. And register every gun so that EVERY responsible gun owner can be held accountable for the actions of that gun. Including reporting it stolen asap.
Comments
Cheers,
HFD
First, I stated that the spike in manufacturing is driven by demand. I Agree with your statement. I also agree that it was driven be Obama fear, earlier just a few posts up. What is not backed by information is that Obama is more left than previous presidents. There are many issues where Johnson, jfk, Roosevelt and even Ike are to the left of Obama. Clinton successfully banned assault weapons for a decade.
The difference is the effectiveness of the NRA propaganda.
What good do they bring society?
I don't expect a reasonable answer, but maybe I'll be surprised
They all bring someone pleasure.
Shooting a gun is a lot of fun when in the proper environment.
What it also does is gives the person a sense of safety in that if shit hits the fan, you have a chance at defending yourself and your family.
It is also backed by the constitution. No the constitution never said the AR or AK or UZI but there have been cases for the right to bear arms have held up in court.
We all know they actually make you less safe...
So let's talk about having fun... you having fun at the range means these highly lethal weapons should be available to the public? Does your fun outweigh our collective safety?
I also have a constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... I think those kids at Parkland would say those rights were infringed upon, no? Does the 2A trump those rights?
Connecticut banned the possession and sale of many semi automatic rifles such as the AR 15 in 2013 after Sandy Hook and made it a crime... And the US Supreme court refused to hear the challenge brought against it, effectively upholding the right of the state to ban them... this was after the 2nd Circuit upheld the ban
Your mighty 2A does not guarantee you the right to these weapons, and is not as Teflon a defense as you think
I gave you an answers, you didn't like it, sorry, not sorry.
This is a topic that you and I will never have a compromise on and for that I am sorry.
Im pro gun but not a member of the NRA.
My family considers me a liberal for my political views.
I can go on and on how one thing has nothing to do with the other and for you to think I'm a bad person because of one belief now hurts me.
Even though he's wrong on the gun issue
I think a reasonable and knowledgeable gun owner/advocate would agree with most of that
While in the perfect world I would personally do the same with handguns, I realize that's not happening in my lifetim, and im interested in real progress, so im not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater... so feel free to keep shotguns, certain rifles, and handguns... go have fun at the range, go bag a deer, enjoy your hobby.... but please support some common sense changes, the country needs it desperately
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I'd actually prepared a reasonable one. I deleted it.
I've always supported his alternative point of view and stressed how valuable it was to these threads; but I can't honestly say that's the case right now.
we will find a way, we will find our place
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I kind of like the unsuspecting people that hold the hand guns with a limp wrist only to have it kick back into their forehead or nose.
Geniuses.
I'm pretty sure I remember watching a video where a genius looks down the barrel,of a gun and it fires. Taking the guys hat off. I think that is what you're referring to 30. Right?
we will find a way, we will find our place
we will find a way, we will find our place
What about the terrorist watch list bothers you? It seems to me if they have enough concern about you that you're not allowed on an airplane, you shouldn't be able to purchase a gun.
Everybody in this country has to be tested and licensed to drive a vehicle, it seems like common sense the same should apply to gun owners. I also have to register and insure my vehicle, which I also think would be reasonable for gun owners.