America's Gun Violence

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Comments

  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,559
    edited March 2018
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In two days there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.
    Was that a mic drop?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,505
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In two days there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.
    Was that a mic drop?
    Stop the tweets! These guys solved our problems. While it is great that this shooting was preventable and action was taken swiftly by law enforcement, it is not always this easy. I would love to see a more efficient response like this in similar cases, but it won't stop or prevent these events from occurring at schools or anywhere else. It's just one piece of the puzzle, not the end all be all solution.

    Sorry, it is hard to get through some of the statements in the article without cringing. Lots of Obama blaming.

    https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/03/09/mass-shooting-youll-never-hear/
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    tbergs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In two days there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.
    Was that a mic drop?
    Stop the tweets! These guys solved our problems. While it is great that this shooting was preventable and action was taken swiftly by law enforcement, it is not always this easy. I would love to see a more efficient response like this in similar cases, but it won't stop or prevent these events from occurring at schools or anywhere else. It's just one piece of the puzzle, not the end all be all solution.

    Sorry, it is hard to get through some of the statements in the article without cringing. Lots of Obama blaming.

    https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/03/09/mass-shooting-youll-never-hear/
    Maybe you’d like to cite the law that was violated by Cruz in all his interactions with law enforcement?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"
    Lanza attended a Sandy Hook.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,505
    edited March 2018
    For you H2M:

    In 2016, officials at Stoneman Douglas were told Cruz was violently and repeatedly threatening several classmates, according to a report in Buzzfeed News. Shortly after Cruz and his girlfriend broke up, he began sending messages to her friends on Instagram, blaming them for his romantic woes and threatening to kill them.

    “I’m going to get you and I’m going to kill you because you took this person away from me. I’m going to kill your family,” he said to Dana Craig, a one-time friend, in messages described to Buzzfeed.

    Craig told Buzzfeed she reported the incident in writing to school security.

    Then Cruz’s ex began dating another student, Enea Sabadini. Cruz threatened Sabadini on several occasions in 2016 and 2017, calling him racial slurs and saying, “I have guns ... I will kill you,” as well as sending a photo of at least six weapons laid out on his bed. Sabadini also reported Cruz’s threats to the school, according to Buzzfeed.

    Cruz’s threats to the teens could constitute aggravated cyberstalking, a felony, said Louis, the former Miami-Dade prosecutor. They could also violate state law against issuing written threats to kill.

    “You have no right to say to somebody, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ ” Louis said.

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"
    Lanza attended a Sandy Hook.

    Man I'm stupid.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    tbergs said:
    For you H2M:

    In 2016, officials at Stoneman Douglas were told Cruz was violently and repeatedly threatening several classmates, according to a report in Buzzfeed News. Shortly after Cruz and his girlfriend broke up, he began sending messages to her friends on Instagram, blaming them for his romantic woes and threatening to kill them.

    “I’m going to get you and I’m going to kill you because you took this person away from me. I’m going to kill your family,” he said to Dana Craig, a one-time friend, in messages described to Buzzfeed.

    Craig told Buzzfeed she reported the incident in writing to school security.

    Then Cruz’s ex began dating another student, Enea Sabadini. Cruz threatened Sabadini on several occasions in 2016 and 2017, calling him racial slurs and saying, “I have guns ... I will kill you,” as well as sending a photo of at least six weapons laid out on his bed. Sabadini also reported Cruz’s threats to the school, according to Buzzfeed.

    Cruz’s threats to the teens could constitute aggravated cyberstalking, a felony, said Louis, the former Miami-Dade prosecutor. They could also violate state law against issuing written threats to kill.

    “You have no right to say to somebody, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ ” Louis said.

    You still haven’t cited the law he was in violation of. As opposed to your pro gun article link that clearly stated, “possession of a firearm by a minor is against the law,” resulting in his arrest. A former prosecutor stating “it could be,” is quite different. Oh, in a Republican state with a Republican governor that went Team trump Treason, I love the Obama swipe. Back to you tbergs.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,559
    tbergs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In two days there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.
    Was that a mic drop?
    Stop the tweets! These guys solved our problems. While it is great that this shooting was preventable and action was taken swiftly by law enforcement, it is not always this easy. I would love to see a more efficient response like this in similar cases, but it won't stop or prevent these events from occurring at schools or anywhere else. It's just one piece of the puzzle, not the end all be all solution.

    Sorry, it is hard to get through some of the statements in the article without cringing. Lots of Obama blaming.

    https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/03/09/mass-shooting-youll-never-hear/
    So they have an instance of an individual making threats who was arrested. That's entirely appropriate. I think it's a little premature of them to claim that this definitively prevented a school shooting. Many, probably most, of those that make such threats never carry them out. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,505
    tbergs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In two days there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.
    Was that a mic drop?
    Stop the tweets! These guys solved our problems. While it is great that this shooting was preventable and action was taken swiftly by law enforcement, it is not always this easy. I would love to see a more efficient response like this in similar cases, but it won't stop or prevent these events from occurring at schools or anywhere else. It's just one piece of the puzzle, not the end all be all solution.

    Sorry, it is hard to get through some of the statements in the article without cringing. Lots of Obama blaming.

    https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/03/09/mass-shooting-youll-never-hear/
    So they have an instance of an individual making threats who was arrested. That's entirely appropriate. I think it's a little premature of them to claim that this definitively prevented a school shooting. Many, probably most, of those that make such threats never carry them out. 
    Apparently my sarcasm isn't shining through here. I think it's a ridiculous position and can't be used at all as an argument for how to prevent future incidents. I agree, there are a lot of threats that never amount to anything, but that also doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken seriously.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,505
    tbergs said:
    For you H2M:

    In 2016, officials at Stoneman Douglas were told Cruz was violently and repeatedly threatening several classmates, according to a report in Buzzfeed News. Shortly after Cruz and his girlfriend broke up, he began sending messages to her friends on Instagram, blaming them for his romantic woes and threatening to kill them.

    “I’m going to get you and I’m going to kill you because you took this person away from me. I’m going to kill your family,” he said to Dana Craig, a one-time friend, in messages described to Buzzfeed.

    Craig told Buzzfeed she reported the incident in writing to school security.

    Then Cruz’s ex began dating another student, Enea Sabadini. Cruz threatened Sabadini on several occasions in 2016 and 2017, calling him racial slurs and saying, “I have guns ... I will kill you,” as well as sending a photo of at least six weapons laid out on his bed. Sabadini also reported Cruz’s threats to the school, according to Buzzfeed.

    Cruz’s threats to the teens could constitute aggravated cyberstalking, a felony, said Louis, the former Miami-Dade prosecutor. They could also violate state law against issuing written threats to kill.

    “You have no right to say to somebody, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ ” Louis said.

    You still haven’t cited the law he was in violation of. As opposed to your pro gun article link that clearly stated, “possession of a firearm by a minor is against the law,” resulting in his arrest. A former prosecutor stating “it could be,” is quite different. Oh, in a Republican state with a Republican governor that went Team trump Treason, I love the Obama swipe. Back to you tbergs.
    Maybe it hasn't been clear, but I'm not in agreement with the article besides that the police in the California case may have prevented violence.

    Here's your statute for FL:

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.011.html
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,559
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In two days there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.
    Was that a mic drop?
    Stop the tweets! These guys solved our problems. While it is great that this shooting was preventable and action was taken swiftly by law enforcement, it is not always this easy. I would love to see a more efficient response like this in similar cases, but it won't stop or prevent these events from occurring at schools or anywhere else. It's just one piece of the puzzle, not the end all be all solution.

    Sorry, it is hard to get through some of the statements in the article without cringing. Lots of Obama blaming.

    https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/03/09/mass-shooting-youll-never-hear/
    So they have an instance of an individual making threats who was arrested. That's entirely appropriate. I think it's a little premature of them to claim that this definitively prevented a school shooting. Many, probably most, of those that make such threats never carry them out. 
    Apparently my sarcasm isn't shining through here. I think it's a ridiculous position and can't be used at all as an argument for how to prevent future incidents. I agree, there are a lot of threats that never amount to anything, but that also doesn't mean they shouldn't be taken seriously.
    Oh, I know; I got the sarcasm. I was just tossing in my two cents' worth on the article. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,485
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"

    When they know nobody is there to stop them...
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,559
    unsung said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"

    When they know nobody is there to stop them...

    Zero proof of that, and significant proof on the other side, so... no.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,485
    Gun free zones are that until a killer decides they aren't.
  • unsung said:
    Gun free zones are that until a killer decides they aren't.

    Just like all gun owners are responsible gun owners until they aren't.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,559
    unsung said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"

    When they know nobody is there to stop them...
    You do know that almost all of these shooters go into the situation expecting to die, right? That prospect isn’t a deterrent. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    unsung said:
    Gun free zones are that until a killer decides they aren't.

    Just like all gun owners are responsible gun owners until they aren't.
    You mean like this “responsible” gun owner?

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/10/us/california-veterans-home-shooting/index.html
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    For you H2M:

    In 2016, officials at Stoneman Douglas were told Cruz was violently and repeatedly threatening several classmates, according to a report in Buzzfeed News. Shortly after Cruz and his girlfriend broke up, he began sending messages to her friends on Instagram, blaming them for his romantic woes and threatening to kill them.

    “I’m going to get you and I’m going to kill you because you took this person away from me. I’m going to kill your family,” he said to Dana Craig, a one-time friend, in messages described to Buzzfeed.

    Craig told Buzzfeed she reported the incident in writing to school security.

    Then Cruz’s ex began dating another student, Enea Sabadini. Cruz threatened Sabadini on several occasions in 2016 and 2017, calling him racial slurs and saying, “I have guns ... I will kill you,” as well as sending a photo of at least six weapons laid out on his bed. Sabadini also reported Cruz’s threats to the school, according to Buzzfeed.

    Cruz’s threats to the teens could constitute aggravated cyberstalking, a felony, said Louis, the former Miami-Dade prosecutor. They could also violate state law against issuing written threats to kill.

    “You have no right to say to somebody, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ ” Louis said.

    You still haven’t cited the law he was in violation of. As opposed to your pro gun article link that clearly stated, “possession of a firearm by a minor is against the law,” resulting in his arrest. A former prosecutor stating “it could be,” is quite different. Oh, in a Republican state with a Republican governor that went Team trump Treason, I love the Obama swipe. Back to you tbergs.
    Maybe it hasn't been clear, but I'm not in agreement with the article besides that the police in the California case may have prevented violence.

    Here's your statute for FL:

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.011.html
    Thanks for the link. However, the statute states it’s a misdemeanor to make verbal threats and have the means to carry them out. Imagine the gun nuts nutting if the authorities had seized his guns are detained him for some period of time for committing a misdemeanor? Quite different from the CA situation where possession of firearms is clearly illegal and more “drastic” measures can be legally taken, namely seizing the firearms and thus, “preventing” a potential mass shooting.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 16,569
    unsung said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"

    When they know nobody is there to stop them...
    You do know that almost all of these shooters go into the situation expecting to die, right? That prospect isn’t a deterrent. 
    Please stop making sense
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    my2hands said:
    unsung said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"

    When they know nobody is there to stop them...
    You do know that almost all of these shooters go into the situation expecting to die, right? That prospect isn’t a deterrent. 
    Please stop making sense

    David Byrne is touring, so there is that.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,559
    my2hands said:
    unsung said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"

    When they know nobody is there to stop them...
    You do know that almost all of these shooters go into the situation expecting to die, right? That prospect isn’t a deterrent. 
    Please stop making sense

    David Byrne is touring, so there is that.
    Some people can’t seem to face up to the facts. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    my2hands said:
    unsung said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Armed guards on every street corner lol.

    If the schools with armed teachers and seals are impenetrable... then psychos will go to a senior centre or daycare. With assault rifles no less.

    Just goofy. Even the most ardent second amendment supporter must be questioning the logic behind trying to maintain the status quo and ensuring public safety.

    The tail wags the dog.
    I had a seminar with our pd the other day and one statistic shows that mass shootings in schools are down percentage wise because of the fact that they are more secure.  Criminals aren't stupid, you make schools more secure then they go for something less secure like open air concerts or this vet hospital. Craziness.
    I would really like to see those statistics. Mass school shootings are statistically very rare, even though each one captures our attention, so I have trouble believing that there are any valid stats around shootings being reduced because schools are “more secure”. 
    First chance I get I will email him and ask him for his footnotes. 

    Please post any data that you can get.

    To be honest, I'm already highly skeptical of this claim. Putting it into perspective, it is considered to be very difficult to research effectiveness of interventions to prevent completed suicide, because it is considered a statistically rare event. A properly constructed study may still end up with no or such a small number of completed suicides that no conclusions can be drawn from the data. Instead, proxy measures like suicidal ideation or suicide attempts are used, though these are inaccurate. Thus, population based data is sometimes used, but in those cases generally only correlations can be made, without clear causation.

    In the USA, there are roughly 45,000 suicides a year. Roughly 123 every day. And that's considered rare.

    Compare that to any school shooting (let alone "mass school shootings"), of which there have been 291 since 2013. An average of one per week. In one day there are more deaths by suicide than the number of school shootings in an entire year. What is the likelihood that anyone has valid data yet on whether any particular intervention reliably reduces school shootings?

    And I'l say it again, though I've said it before - school shootings aren't random acts of violence. These individuals target the school, with its students and teachers, precisely because it is/was their school. The ones that want to shoot up a school are not the ones that are just going to pick another target.

    And... on the 'rarer' occasion where some f**king idiot wants to grab his handy dandy weapon of war and kill a bunch of kids in a school that isn't his school (Lanza and Sandy Hook)... he can easily do so.

    "Anything... and I mean aaaaanything outside of removing these types of guns and all their related cool features I am completely in favour of!" says the guy who pretends to really care. "Arm the teachers. Place armed guards in the schools. Give kids bulletproof vests. Theeeeese are the real answers!"

    When they know nobody is there to stop them...
    You do know that almost all of these shooters go into the situation expecting to die, right? That prospect isn’t a deterrent. 
    Please stop making sense

    David Byrne is touring, so there is that.
    Some people can’t seem to face up to the facts. 
    Some are tense and nervous and can’t relax.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Lol

    Nice Talking Heads tie ins. 
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    edited March 2018
    My right and my families right to live and not be shot by any psychopath with a machine gun supersedes your "right" to own an assault rifle. Period. 
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    Don’t touch him, he’s a real live wire.
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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,559
    Don't worry, you can always run run run away
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,485
    11 kids die a day from texting while driving.

    Anyone know when that illegal walkout is scheduled?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 19,064
    unsung said:
    11 kids die a day from texting while driving.

    Anyone know when that illegal walkout is scheduled?
    Got a link?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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