America's Gun Violence

unsung

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

mace1229

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

Sounds like your against taxes? So if you're poor and the government doesn't supply any services, who pays for police when you are getting robbed, or the fire department when your house is burning? And if you can't afford private school, you just get a job and work in a factory when you turn 5?

Go Beavers

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.

PJPOWER

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.

Just for argument sake, are rights like freedom of speech, privacy, etc government rights or are they inalienable rights that governments should not take away?

Go Beavers

PJPOWER said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.

Just for argument sake, are rights like freedom of speech, privacy, etc government rights or are they inalienable rights that governments should not take away?

They're values created by people and then this manifested into government values as well as cultural values. If there's an amt historian, maybe they could comment how these values bubbled up from the people to the government, or vice-versa. Saying something is an inalienable right is still just a cultural term and words on paper that leads to laws and freedoms. Across the globe we've set up laws and freedoms differently. These are all created by people. Usuing the term inalienable makes me hesistate because it suggests they're sent from above, and some people might take that notion a bit too far with nationalism or this general sense that we're somehow better than the others.

PJPOWER

Go Beavers said:

PJPOWER said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.

Just for argument sake, are rights like freedom of speech, privacy, etc government rights or are they inalienable rights that governments should not take away?

They're values created by people and then this manifested into government values as well as cultural values. If there's an amt historian, maybe they could comment how these values bubbled up from the people to the government, or vice-versa. Saying something is an inalienable right is still just a cultural term and words on paper that leads to laws and freedoms. Across the globe we've set up laws and freedoms differently. These are all created by people. Usuing the term inalienable makes me hesistate because it suggests they're sent from above, and some people might take that notion a bit too far with nationalism or this general sense that we're somehow better than the others.

So if what I understand you to be saying, no one has any rights to anything without a government telling them they do. I see where you are coming from, but you would have to include all "rights" distinguished in the amendments into that criteria, not just the second. The thing is, though, that "inalienable" rights were exactly what many of the rights in the constitution were based around by the framers of the constitution. They believed that these rights were sent from above and based laws around them. The "right" to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness were believed to be "God given" rights, not government given.

Go Beavers

PJPOWER said:

Go Beavers said:

PJPOWER said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.

Just for argument sake, are rights like freedom of speech, privacy, etc government rights or are they inalienable rights that governments should not take away?

They're values created by people and then this manifested into government values as well as cultural values. If there's an amt historian, maybe they could comment how these values bubbled up from the people to the government, or vice-versa. Saying something is an inalienable right is still just a cultural term and words on paper that leads to laws and freedoms. Across the globe we've set up laws and freedoms differently. These are all created by people. Usuing the term inalienable makes me hesistate because it suggests they're sent from above, and some people might take that notion a bit too far with nationalism or this general sense that we're somehow better than the others.

So if what I understand you to be saying, no one has any rights to anything without a government telling them they do. I see where you are coming from, but you would have to include all "rights" distinguished in the amendments into that criteria, not just the second. The thing is, though, that "inalienable" rights were exactly what many of the rights in the constitution were based around by the framers of the constitution. They believed that these rights were sent from above and based laws around them. The "right" to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness were believed to be "God given" rights, not government given.

If the framers thought that, that's cool. But they were their own values, regardless of where those values came from. People wrote those on paper. People made the rules and enforce them, or they don't make rules about other things, i.e. Freedoms. At a very basic level, people gather and work in groups. If you stripped down all the laws tomorrow, we would reconvene in a week or two to make new laws and figure out how to make them and how to enforce them.

unsung

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.

No, that is not true. 2A is there to protect the existing Right, not to grant it.

Government can only do two things to Rights, protect them, or take them away.

Go Beavers

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.

No, that is not true. 2A is there to protect the existing Right, not to grant it.

Government can only do two things to Rights, protect them, or take them away.

The 2nd amendement decided to put rules around something. I have the right to own a gun, or a baseball bat. You're coming at it from a different perspective, saying it's inclusion into the Constitution is saying it's a right that needs to be protected. I see it's inclusion as a reference to the militia at the time. It could be seen as a protection to maintain militias and not guns.

vaggar99

this guy and others like him is the reason why i fear civil war:
https://yahoo.com/news/asian-american-journalist-interview-white-nationalist-200511032--abc-news-topstories.html

rgambs

mace1229 said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

Sounds like your against taxes? So if you're poor and the government doesn't supply any services, who pays for police when you are getting robbed, or the fire department when your house is burning? And if you can't afford private school, you just get a job and work in a factory when you turn 5?

Unsung won't answer questions like this, they are beneath him because they come from statists.

Go Beavers

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

CM189191 said:

.

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

tbergs said:

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

All gun laws are infringements. We won't comply.

Infringement on what?

Why bother asking a follow up to that? No answer will have any reasoning.

It is a question that he already knows the answer to.

I was thinking laws were part of a well regulated militia.

Ok, I am in a militia.

Good for you. Leave your armaments at the armory. When you're called to duty, you can go pick them up.

That defeats the purpose. If the militia were called up all an aggressor would need to do is capture the depot ahead of time.

Maybe you misunderstand why there are militias.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice. What are you going to do when you're 46?

No ageism in my State Militia.

Even as a grandad, you'll follow those orders from your governor.

And you'll still be crying that Hillary lost.

Our militia gives me that freedom to cry!

Actually no it doesn't, nor does anyone give you freedom. You have that right by birth.

And nobody currently fights to retain or defend your freedom.

A right to freedom by birth is philosophical jumbo jimble and word play. I'm actually not entitled to anything at birth. My freedom is based on where I happen to be and laws, rules, faith and trust in a system created by people in the place I happen to be in. What I do within that system is mostly up to me.

So you are totally dependent on whatever government happens to be in charge? Got it.

Saying "totally dependent" would be you trying to guide the conversation to your view. I'm saying government, combined with society, puts up the fence around the field. I get to play in the field.

But you admittedly play on their field.

Wouldn't you prefer more input?

Do you own yourself?

I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.

No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.

I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.

But somehow you think government gives you rights.

Sounds like your against taxes? So if you're poor and the government doesn't supply any services, who pays for police when you are getting robbed, or the fire department when your house is burning? And if you can't afford private school, you just get a job and work in a factory when you turn 5?

Unsung won't answer questions like this, they are beneath him because they come from statists.

He solves problems with some backyard 'wrastlin.

Halifax2TheMax

Today of all days, everyone should read this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-newtown-shooting-mourning-parents-enter-into-the-lonely-quiet/2013/06/08/0235a882-cd32-11e2-9f1a-1a7cdee20287_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_newtown-anniversary-350pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.b99a668206b1

CM189191

Halifax2TheMax said:

Today of all days, everyone should read this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-newtown-shooting-mourning-parents-enter-into-the-lonely-quiet/2013/06/08/0235a882-cd32-11e2-9f1a-1a7cdee20287_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_newtown-anniversary-350pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.b99a668206b1

but a small price to pay for our freedons

PJPOWER

Why should gun owners be skeptical of new laws and regulations? Here is one example:
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/12/14/showing-classic-cuomo-competence-ny-screws-gun-permitting/?utm_content=bufferdcd6e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

CM189191

PJPOWER said:

Why should gun owners be skeptical of new laws and regulations? Here is one example:
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/12/14/showing-classic-cuomo-competence-ny-screws-gun-permitting/?utm_content=bufferdcd6e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Who needs laws & regulations?
(Officer) Yanez now contends he knew Reynolds and Castile had been smoking before he pulled them over that night, as "the smell of marijuana permeated the Castile automobile."
His lawyers say smoking that evening had effectively rendered Castile's firearms permit invalid: "Narcotic users are not eligible to own, let alone carry, a firearm on their person."
Judge, Jury and Executioner

PJPOWER

CM189191 said:

PJPOWER said:

Why should gun owners be skeptical of new laws and regulations? Here is one example:
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/12/14/showing-classic-cuomo-competence-ny-screws-gun-permitting/?utm_content=bufferdcd6e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Who needs laws & regulations?
(Officer) Yanez now contends he knew Reynolds and Castile had been smoking before he pulled them over that night, as "the smell of marijuana permeated the Castile automobile."
His lawyers say smoking that evening had effectively rendered Castile's firearms permit invalid: "Narcotic users are not eligible to own, let alone carry, a firearm on their person."
Judge, Jury and Executioner

Not sure why you quoted me? Are you arguing against police violence or gun violence? There are quite a few laws regarding an officer's certification to carry and use firearms...? Am I missing something? Maybe your article would be a better fit in the police violence thread? I just pointed out that it is no wonder people are skeptical of new laws and posted the article about New York and their inability to implement them due to the state's inadequacies...

CM189191

reset the clock

Jason P

3 reported dead and nine injured at Ft. Lauderdale Airport shooting.

Seeing as this happened in Florida, the possible motive runs the entire gambit from ISIS all the way to a disgruntled alligator farmer high on bath salts.

CM189191

Jason P said:

3 reported dead and nine injured at Ft. Lauderdale Airport shooting.

Seeing as this happened in Florida, the possible motive runs the entire gambit from ISIS all the way to a disgruntled alligator farmer high on bath salts.

Shooter in custody. Guessing it's not ISIS.