the Second amendment argument truly bewilders me. of course it states the right to bear arms. but, all of us already accept many restrictions on arms (i guess its very little, but no nukes). The First Amendment guarantees free speech. Again, there are restrictions. You can't go around threatening to kill people even if you are joking or whatever. So why do so many people hide behind the 2nd A and run from any talk of gun control? Could it be that many more people exist within the same spectrum of sociopathy as a Paddock type than ever imagined?
What law or laws could you pass to prevent Crazy People? No matter what laws you pass, crazy people are going to continue to be crazy, and attempt to kill and Slaughter people. I think that only more armed law abiding citizens can assist in stopping crazies, when the crazies are trying to commit an atrocity. For example if you are in France, when a crazy man is driving a truck down the road running over people, maybe a law-abiding Frenchman with a concealed carry permit could've stopped the crazy guy before he continues running over more and more people. Perhaps decreasing the number of injured and dead people from the crazy truck driver. Just food for thought.
you can pass laws to prevent crazy people from getting weapons. in fact, Obama did just that with a directive. Of course, its no more. And sure you won't stop them all, but you could probably stop/discourage more than half of them. not going after concealed handguns either. i'm talking assault weapons.
Hand guns are responsible for way more deaths than assault rifles.
gotta pick your battles i guess. handguns are going nowhere.
For me a gun is a gun. I still cannot understand this need to"protect" or bare arms. Why does this seem to make a difference how many shots it can fire and how? One bullet is too many. Why the fuck are people shooting anyone thats a question. There is never a need for any human to carry a gun. If you shoot one person or 600. All wrong. Remove the gun it can't happen. All this bs about its not the gun its the person.come on.
the world is full of paranoid cowards. i don't say that in a light sense. its true though. get to know certain types of seemingly normal people and you'll see this deep fear and insecurity that only a weapon can cure.
For me a gun is a gun. I still cannot understand this need to"protect" or bare arms. Why does this seem to make a difference how many shots it can fire and how? One bullet is too many. Why the fuck are people shooting anyone thats a question. There is never a need for any human to carry a gun. If you shoot one person or 600. All wrong. Remove the gun it can't happen. All this bs about its not the gun its the person.come on.
the world is full of paranoid cowards. i don't say that in a light sense. its true though. get to know certain types of seemingly normal people and you'll see this deep fear and insecurity that only a weapon can cure.
and then the ones who just get off on having firepower
We all know that nothing will happen from this event so let's not debate or argue amongst each other about gun control, it's a dead issue amongst our elected officials !
I don't consider biology because humans are beyond that. We have largely beat nature in this context (in modern developed society). It is no longer fair to be placing humans on the same level as wild animals in this context IMO. It's the same reason you don't just go running up to whatever woman smells right and start reproducing with her on the street. We're not wild animals (anymore). And wild animals are not comparable to domestic livestock either, IMO, just like they aren't comparable to pets. (I am not really trying to convince anyone btw - certainly not hunters; we are WAY too far apart in attitude to ever agree on this issue, lol).
how are humans beyond that? in order to get the nutrients we need, we either need to eat other animals or get them artificially. our nature is, as someone else said, ominivorous. just because we can grow meat out of petri dish doesn't mean we should.
although, i just noticed what thread we're in. maybe we should get back to it. i don't consider hunting for food "america's gun violence". lol
I am talking about stalking prey in the wild. We are already doing more than enough to destroy nature, and if we don't have to go out there and shoot wild animals, then I don't think we should. If we weren't a bunch of parasites destroying Earth and the animals we share it with about as fast as possible, I probably would not be saying this. And if nobody got any pleasure out of hunting whatsoever I wouldn't saying it either, but nobody can claim that in developed countries the vast majority of hunting is about the sport far more than it is the food. I am 100% not saying we shouldn't eat other animals at all, nor that I think steaks need to be made in a lab (although I wouldn't be against that if it was possible and tasted good - that would be insanely beneficial for environmental reasons and humane reasons - meat without the damage raising meat causes and without any death?? Count me in!! I have no idea why anyone would prefer to kill for meat if they could get it without killing. Surely that isn't what you meant).
i know what you are referring to. but hunting on your own and using it for food takes agriculture, a major source of climate change, out of the picture. I don't like sport hunting any more than you do, but if it's for food, then to me it's neither here nor there if the person shooting is "enjoying it" or not. the fact is, they are using their own means and bypassing the "system", which, as I said above, is a major problem.
We have murders almost 3x a week in my city and many more shootings that end up survivable. Vast majority are from handguns. I’m willing to bet that a lot of them were not obtained using the proper channels. Not sure how you solve those issues. It’s just very sad. Obviously you do your best to never venture into those neighborhoods but the threat of someone shooting up the grocery store always exists.
For me a gun is a gun. I still cannot understand this need to"protect" or bare arms. Why does this seem to make a difference how many shots it can fire and how? One bullet is too many. Why the fuck are people shooting anyone thats a question. There is never a need for any human to carry a gun. If you shoot one person or 600. All wrong. Remove the gun it can't happen. All this bs about its not the gun its the person.come on.
the world is full of paranoid cowards. i don't say that in a light sense. its true though. get to know certain types of seemingly normal people and you'll see this deep fear and insecurity that only a weapon can cure.
and then the ones who just get off on having firepower
Guilty. It's recreation for me. I don't expect you to understand it...
I am quite perplexed that there have been no responses to the 538 article that I posted earlier. I know that there are some strong 538 fans around here...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mass-shootings-are-a-bad-way-to-understand-gun-violence/ “You could, theoretically, cut down on all these deaths with a blanket removal of guns from the U.S. entirely — something that is as politically unlikely as it is legally untenable.” There is no magic spell that is just going to make guns go away in the US, but as the article suggests, many other things could change. The same changes that may stop a mass shooting would do little to stop other forms of gun violence. Personally, I am a big supporter of individual responsibilities. There are no quick fixes that are going to guarantee that this sort of thing will not happen again. That’s reality. That being said, what could an average person be doing on top of bitching about politics on an AMT forum? Go to the fucking active shooter awareness classes that many cities make available for free. They teach you to be aware of basic warning signs that could help a person recognize potentially unsafe places. Take some basic first aid classes (even just a CPR class is better than nothing). Learn some simple techniques for staying somewhat calm and focused during chaos. Take a firearm safety course (whether or not you are a gun owner), that way you can educate your friends and family about firearm safety. Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques. They may not stop a person from raining down gunfire on a bunch of people, but may save a few lives when, yes “when”, another event like this takes place. This is stuff you could do today instead of waiting for some unlikely gun control measure to be implemented that would effectively end crazy people doing crazy things.
John Paul Stevens said that the 2nd amendment was likely intended to have included those FIVE WORDS so that arming state militias would be considered constitutional. NOT the arming of every citizen.
For me a gun is a gun. I still cannot understand this need to"protect" or bare arms. Why does this seem to make a difference how many shots it can fire and how? One bullet is too many. Why the fuck are people shooting anyone thats a question. There is never a need for any human to carry a gun. If you shoot one person or 600. All wrong. Remove the gun it can't happen. All this bs about its not the gun its the person.come on.
the world is full of paranoid cowards. i don't say that in a light sense. its true though. get to know certain types of seemingly normal people and you'll see this deep fear and insecurity that only a weapon can cure.
and then the ones who just get off on having firepower
Guilty. It's recreation for me. I don't expect you to understand it...
Me too. I don't get the comments about getting off with them or compensation for something else. Now mine are mostly .22s, and the ones that aren't are bolt or lever action, I don't have anything that could even be modified to replicate automatic fire. I don't know why anyone who has a different hobby thinks we are getting off with it. I just ignore it and chalk it up to one of those from the party of tolerance being intolerant of anyone who has a different belief or even hobby now than they do.
John Paul Stevens said that the 2nd amendment was likely intended to have included those FIVE WORDS so that arming state militias would be considered constitutional. NOT the arming of every citizen.
Meh, nothing new here that hasn’t been debated a thousand times. For every lawyer saying firearms are only for militias, there is one defining a militia as “every able bodied male” or defining the 2nd in another way...Removing the right of “the people” to arm themselves is “politically unlikely and legally untenable”-From the 538 article I posted earlier. Pointless debate at this point in my opinion...
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
Even if his macho self had a gun what exactly was he going to do? He probably was going to be suspected as a shooter or THE shooter.
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He is an interesting human being. But I don’t see the point you are trying to make? Guy tried to save his own life first, like most people would, and then the rest is up for debate. He said/she said all over the article. What do you want him to do?
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For me a gun is a gun. I still cannot understand this need to"protect" or bare arms. Why does this seem to make a difference how many shots it can fire and how? One bullet is too many. Why the fuck are people shooting anyone thats a question. There is never a need for any human to carry a gun. If you shoot one person or 600. All wrong. Remove the gun it can't happen. All this bs about its not the gun its the person.come on.
the world is full of paranoid cowards. i don't say that in a light sense. its true though. get to know certain types of seemingly normal people and you'll see this deep fear and insecurity that only a weapon can cure.
and then the ones who just get off on having firepower
Guilty. It's recreation for me. I don't expect you to understand it...
Me too. I don't get the comments about getting off with them or compensation for something else. Now mine are mostly .22s, and the ones that aren't are bolt or lever action, I don't have anything that could even be modified to replicate automatic fire. I don't know why anyone who has a different hobby thinks we are getting off with it. I just ignore it and chalk it up to one of those from the party of tolerance being intolerant of anyone who has a different belief or even hobby now than they do.
it's all based in anger because of the atrocities committed. I know it's probably difficult, but try not to take it personally.
He is an interesting human being. But I don’t see the point you are trying to make? Guy tried to save his own life first, like most people would, and then the rest is up for debate. He said/she said all over the article. What do you want him to do?
Exactly, I had never even heard of this dude before. Sounds like he survived and came back to help though...Did he act inappropriately and potentially put others in danger like the drunk idiots standing up and flipping off the shooter? He escaped and then accessed the situation...nothing wrong with that.
I am quite perplexed that there have been no responses to the 538 article that I posted earlier. I know that there are some strong 538 fans around here...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mass-shootings-are-a-bad-way-to-understand-gun-violence/ “You could, theoretically, cut down on all these deaths with a blanket removal of guns from the U.S. entirely — something that is as politically unlikely as it is legally untenable.” There is no magic spell that is just going to make guns go away in the US, but as the article suggests, many other things could change. The same changes that may stop a mass shooting would do little to stop other forms of gun violence. Personally, I am a big supporter of individual responsibilities. There are no quick fixes that are going to guarantee that this sort of thing will not happen again. That’s reality. That being said, what could an average person be doing on top of bitching about politics on an AMT forum? Go to the fucking active shooter awareness classes that many cities make available for free. They teach you to be aware of basic warning signs that could help a person recognize potentially unsafe places. Take some basic first aid classes (even just a CPR class is better than nothing). Learn some simple techniques for staying somewhat calm and focused during chaos. Take a firearm safety course (whether or not you are a gun owner), that way you can educate your friends and family about firearm safety. Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques. They may not stop a person from raining down gunfire on a bunch of people, but may save a few lives when, yes “when”, another event like this takes place. This is stuff you could do today instead of waiting for some unlikely gun control measure to be implemented that would effectively end crazy people doing crazy things.
So in other words... get used to it.
Unbelievable.
Actually it's not. You guys elected Donald Trump. If you have the collective mindset to do that... why would anyone think you'd be wise enough to solve your gun problem which is far easier than gun advocates make it out to be?
Simply put: the will to solve the problem isn't there. You guys would rather have Sandy Hooks than relinquish the opportunity to shoot machine guns at empty beer cans at the landfill.
I am quite perplexed that there have been no responses to the 538 article that I posted earlier. I know that there are some strong 538 fans around here...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mass-shootings-are-a-bad-way-to-understand-gun-violence/ “You could, theoretically, cut down on all these deaths with a blanket removal of guns from the U.S. entirely — something that is as politically unlikely as it is legally untenable.” There is no magic spell that is just going to make guns go away in the US, but as the article suggests, many other things could change. The same changes that may stop a mass shooting would do little to stop other forms of gun violence. Personally, I am a big supporter of individual responsibilities. There are no quick fixes that are going to guarantee that this sort of thing will not happen again. That’s reality. That being said, what could an average person be doing on top of bitching about politics on an AMT forum? Go to the fucking active shooter awareness classes that many cities make available for free. They teach you to be aware of basic warning signs that could help a person recognize potentially unsafe places. Take some basic first aid classes (even just a CPR class is better than nothing). Learn some simple techniques for staying somewhat calm and focused during chaos. Take a firearm safety course (whether or not you are a gun owner), that way you can educate your friends and family about firearm safety. Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques. They may not stop a person from raining down gunfire on a bunch of people, but may save a few lives when, yes “when”, another event like this takes place. This is stuff you could do today instead of waiting for some unlikely gun control measure to be implemented that would effectively end crazy people doing crazy things.
So in other words... get used to it.
Unbelievable.
Actually it's not. You guys elected Donald Trump. If you have the collective mindset to do that... why would anyone think you'd be wise enough to solve your gun problem which is far easier than gun advocates make it out to be?
Simply put: the will to solve the problem isn't there. You guys would rather have Sandy Hooks than relinquish the opportunity to shoot machine guns at empty beer cans at the landfill.
No, do not ”get used to it” for fucks sake. Keep trying to solve the gun problem, but the odds are that something like this will happen again before any real policies make a difference. So *also* do your part in personally trying to be as diligent and educated as possible. Do not be a sheep. Unbelievable indeed...
I am quite perplexed that there have been no responses to the 538 article that I posted earlier. I know that there are some strong 538 fans around here...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mass-shootings-are-a-bad-way-to-understand-gun-violence/ “You could, theoretically, cut down on all these deaths with a blanket removal of guns from the U.S. entirely — something that is as politically unlikely as it is legally untenable.” There is no magic spell that is just going to make guns go away in the US, but as the article suggests, many other things could change. The same changes that may stop a mass shooting would do little to stop other forms of gun violence. Personally, I am a big supporter of individual responsibilities. There are no quick fixes that are going to guarantee that this sort of thing will not happen again. That’s reality. That being said, what could an average person be doing on top of bitching about politics on an AMT forum? Go to the fucking active shooter awareness classes that many cities make available for free. They teach you to be aware of basic warning signs that could help a person recognize potentially unsafe places. Take some basic first aid classes (even just a CPR class is better than nothing). Learn some simple techniques for staying somewhat calm and focused during chaos. Take a firearm safety course (whether or not you are a gun owner), that way you can educate your friends and family about firearm safety. Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques. They may not stop a person from raining down gunfire on a bunch of people, but may save a few lives when, yes “when”, another event like this takes place. This is stuff you could do today instead of waiting for some unlikely gun control measure to be implemented that would effectively end crazy people doing crazy things.
So in other words... get used to it.
Unbelievable.
Actually it's not. You guys elected Donald Trump. If you have the collective mindset to do that... why would anyone think you'd be wise enough to solve your gun problem which is far easier than gun advocates make it out to be?
Simply put: the will to solve the problem isn't there. You guys would rather have Sandy Hooks than relinquish the opportunity to shoot machine guns at empty beer cans at the landfill.
No, do not ”get used to it” for fucks sake. Keep trying to solve the gun problem, but the odds are that something like this will happen again before any real policies make a difference. So *also* do your part in personally trying to be as diligent and educated as possible. Do not be a sheep. Unbelievable indeed...
You submitted a post that encourages people to be prepared for mass shootings.
To me... that says 'get used to it'.
The answer is simple, Power, whether you care to admit it or not. I stand by my statement: the will to change is not there. Your country is willing to feature mass shootings so that people can shoot shit with cool guns.
I am quite perplexed that there have been no responses to the 538 article that I posted earlier. I know that there are some strong 538 fans around here...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mass-shootings-are-a-bad-way-to-understand-gun-violence/ “You could, theoretically, cut down on all these deaths with a blanket removal of guns from the U.S. entirely — something that is as politically unlikely as it is legally untenable.” There is no magic spell that is just going to make guns go away in the US, but as the article suggests, many other things could change. The same changes that may stop a mass shooting would do little to stop other forms of gun violence. Personally, I am a big supporter of individual responsibilities. There are no quick fixes that are going to guarantee that this sort of thing will not happen again. That’s reality. That being said, what could an average person be doing on top of bitching about politics on an AMT forum? Go to the fucking active shooter awareness classes that many cities make available for free. They teach you to be aware of basic warning signs that could help a person recognize potentially unsafe places. Take some basic first aid classes (even just a CPR class is better than nothing). Learn some simple techniques for staying somewhat calm and focused during chaos. Take a firearm safety course (whether or not you are a gun owner), that way you can educate your friends and family about firearm safety. Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques. They may not stop a person from raining down gunfire on a bunch of people, but may save a few lives when, yes “when”, another event like this takes place. This is stuff you could do today instead of waiting for some unlikely gun control measure to be implemented that would effectively end crazy people doing crazy things.
So in other words... get used to it.
Unbelievable.
Actually it's not. You guys elected Donald Trump. If you have the collective mindset to do that... why would anyone think you'd be wise enough to solve your gun problem which is far easier than gun advocates make it out to be?
Simply put: the will to solve the problem isn't there. You guys would rather have Sandy Hooks than relinquish the opportunity to shoot machine guns at empty beer cans at the landfill.
No, do not ”get used to it” for fucks sake. Keep trying to solve the gun problem, but the odds are that something like this will happen again before any real policies make a difference. So *also* do your part in personally trying to be as diligent and educated as possible. Do not be a sheep. Unbelievable indeed...
You submitted a post that encourages people to be prepared for mass shootings.
To me... that says 'get used to it'.
The answer is simple, Power, whether you care to admit it or not. I stand by my statement: the will to change is not there. Your country is willing to feature mass shootings so that people can shoot shit with cool guns.
his post is not alluding to "get used to it" any more than encouraging women to take self-defense classes is telling them to get used to rape and it's up to them to deal with it. It's being smart and diligent in the world we live in at present. he specifically stated "Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques."
I am quite perplexed that there have been no responses to the 538 article that I posted earlier. I know that there are some strong 538 fans around here...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mass-shootings-are-a-bad-way-to-understand-gun-violence/ “You could, theoretically, cut down on all these deaths with a blanket removal of guns from the U.S. entirely — something that is as politically unlikely as it is legally untenable.” There is no magic spell that is just going to make guns go away in the US, but as the article suggests, many other things could change. The same changes that may stop a mass shooting would do little to stop other forms of gun violence. Personally, I am a big supporter of individual responsibilities. There are no quick fixes that are going to guarantee that this sort of thing will not happen again. That’s reality. That being said, what could an average person be doing on top of bitching about politics on an AMT forum? Go to the fucking active shooter awareness classes that many cities make available for free. They teach you to be aware of basic warning signs that could help a person recognize potentially unsafe places. Take some basic first aid classes (even just a CPR class is better than nothing). Learn some simple techniques for staying somewhat calm and focused during chaos. Take a firearm safety course (whether or not you are a gun owner), that way you can educate your friends and family about firearm safety. Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques. They may not stop a person from raining down gunfire on a bunch of people, but may save a few lives when, yes “when”, another event like this takes place. This is stuff you could do today instead of waiting for some unlikely gun control measure to be implemented that would effectively end crazy people doing crazy things.
So in other words... get used to it.
Unbelievable.
Actually it's not. You guys elected Donald Trump. If you have the collective mindset to do that... why would anyone think you'd be wise enough to solve your gun problem which is far easier than gun advocates make it out to be?
Simply put: the will to solve the problem isn't there. You guys would rather have Sandy Hooks than relinquish the opportunity to shoot machine guns at empty beer cans at the landfill.
No, do not ”get used to it” for fucks sake. Keep trying to solve the gun problem, but the odds are that something like this will happen again before any real policies make a difference. So *also* do your part in personally trying to be as diligent and educated as possible. Do not be a sheep. Unbelievable indeed...
You submitted a post that encourages people to be prepared for mass shootings.
To me... that says 'get used to it'.
The answer is simple, Power, whether you care to admit it or not. I stand by my statement: the will to change is not there. Your country is willing to feature mass shootings so that people can shoot shit with cool guns.
his post is not alluding to "get used to it" any more than encouraging women to take self-defense classes is telling them to get used to rape and it's up to them to deal with it. It's being smart and diligent in the world we live in at present. he specifically stated "Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques."
I agree with this completely.
Exactly, the fact is that anyone could be caught up in one of these events at any time. Hell, it doesn’t even have to do with a mass shooting, learn how to help people suffering a random injury at a concert, car wreck, whatever. I think that so many people have become complacent in thinking that someone else will save them or others that they have become “lazy” when it comes to personal responsibility to help themselves and others. I know that we have different opinions regarding some of the specifics in the firearm debate, but how could anyone not be a proponent of encouraging people to learn how to save lives??? That does not sidestep the “real issue”, because the real focus has always been about saving lives, right? I guess that if you think your fellow human is just another parasite, like has been stated by someone else in this forum, then this is all pointless though...
I agree with the common sense aspect of Power's post given the grim reality.
I disagree with your analogy to some degree, Hugh. If some self gratifying hobby had the undesirable effect of yielding dramatically heightened levels of rape, then we would take the steps to safeguard women so they were not subjected to rape- not by telling them how to be careful when around men... but by dismantling the hobby.
The conversations cannot be about how to be safe in a dangerous country. The conversations need to be about how to make a dangerous country safer.
I agree with the common sense aspect of Power's post given the grim reality.
I disagree with your analogy to some degree, Hugh. If some self gratifying hobby had the undesirable effect of yielding dramatically heightened levels of rape, then we would take the steps to safeguard women so they were not subjected to rape- not by telling them how to be careful when around men... but by dismantling the hobby.
The conversations cannot be about how to be safe in a dangerous country. The conversations need to be about how to make a dangerous country safer.
I think you can have both conversations. You should educate your daughters not to pass out drunk around a bunch of frat boys whose hobby is drinking and fucking as well as cracking down on the frat boy “drinking and fucking” culture. You can also educate people on how to be safe while trying to change the violent culture of a country. You do not have to be narrow minded while trying to make changes...
For me a gun is a gun. I still cannot understand this need to"protect" or bare arms. Why does this seem to make a difference how many shots it can fire and how? One bullet is too many. Why the fuck are people shooting anyone thats a question. There is never a need for any human to carry a gun. If you shoot one person or 600. All wrong. Remove the gun it can't happen. All this bs about its not the gun its the person.come on.
the world is full of paranoid cowards. i don't say that in a light sense. its true though. get to know certain types of seemingly normal people and you'll see this deep fear and insecurity that only a weapon can cure.
and then the ones who just get off on having firepower
Guilty. It's recreation for me. I don't expect you to understand it...
Me too. I don't get the comments about getting off with them or compensation for something else. Now mine are mostly .22s, and the ones that aren't are bolt or lever action, I don't have anything that could even be modified to replicate automatic fire. I don't know why anyone who has a different hobby thinks we are getting off with it. I just ignore it and chalk it up to one of those from the party of tolerance being intolerant of anyone who has a different belief or even hobby now than they do.
it's all based in anger because of the atrocities committed. I know it's probably difficult, but try not to take it personally.
I don't take it personally, but when I see it repeated several times it just makes me think that's what the anti-gun side truly believes, which is ridiculous. I own about 20 guns I've collected over a period of about 20 years and have several hundred rounds of ammo right now, but would make for a terrible mass shooter. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the amount of guns I own. About half are rifles, of which are several .22 (literally the smallest caliber) that range from pump action, semi auto that is barrel fed so takes forever to load, and magazine fed with a capacity of 8 rounds. A few bolt action and lever action and one black powder that takes about 2 minutes a shot. My hand guns are mostly revolvers of different styles which typically hold 6 and are slow to reload. My semi-auto pistols have a magazine capacity of 8 because that was the limit in the state at the time I purchased them. I since moved and don't care to buy high capacity magazines now that they are legal, I'm completely happy with my limit of 8. Why so much ammo? Why do you shop at Costco? Like anything else, its a lot cheaper in bulk. I can buy a box of 50 rounds for $20 That would last 20 minutes. Or a can of 250 rounds for $50. If anyone is willing to set up a go fund me account for my ammo I'd be happy to buy in smaller quantities, and I wouldn't have to bother storing it either.
I used to go target shooting about twice a year in the open desert or mountains. But due to cost of ammo and having small children now, I've gone twice in the last three years. I am completely fine with heavy restrictions on assault rifles. They don't need to be banned completely, just ban the components that make it an assault rifle. Small magazine limits and a truly fixed magazine. I'm okay with background checks, registering all guns, magazine limits on hand guns, eliminating the gun-show loophole and most everything else short of an all out ban on guns.
I've found most gun owners are like me in terms with why they own a firearm and what gun restrictions they are comfortable with. Polls about gun restrictions aren't accurate because that has such a broad meaning. Some proposed (and I think even passed in certain states) prohibit the sale of factory reloads. Why would anyone be against recycling? They are just as safe, just recycled material so they cost a lot less. Restrictions like that come across as not a restriction on safety, but an attempt to prevent people from buying guns and ammo in general so it is met with resistance. The amount of gun owners who support realistic gun control is pretty high in my experience.
Unfortunately, as the case with almost all groups, the loudest don't often represent the majority. CNN won't put guys like me in an interview, or on the cover of Guns and Ammo. They'll interview the guy with the AR-15 strapped around his shoulder wearing a sleeveless shirt about the second amendment and tell the American people that's the average gun owner.
I agree with the common sense aspect of Power's post given the grim reality.
I disagree with your analogy to some degree, Hugh. If some self gratifying hobby had the undesirable effect of yielding dramatically heightened levels of rape, then we would take the steps to safeguard women so they were not subjected to rape- not by telling them how to be careful when around men... but by dismantling the hobby.
The conversations cannot be about how to be safe in a dangerous country. The conversations need to be about how to make a dangerous country safer.
but how we arrive at the undesirable act, whether it be a hobby or a crime, is irrelevant. the fact of the matter is, these things happen, and until they stop, we need to know how to protect ourselves and others.
I agree with PJPOWER. Both conversations need to be had.
We have murders almost 3x a week in my city and many more shootings that end up survivable. Vast majority are from handguns. I’m willing to bet that a lot of them were not obtained using the proper channels. Not sure how you solve those issues. It’s just very sad. Obviously you do your best to never venture into those d neighborhoods but the threat of someone shooting up the grocery store always exists.
All those handguns were bought legally at first....
He is an interesting human being. But I don’t see the point you are trying to make? Guy tried to save his own life first, like most people would, and then the rest is up for debate. He said/she said all over the article. What do you want him to do?
Point is that this guy is always posting pictures of himself with guns...real tough guy. He supposedly wanted to be a Navy Seal and didn't make it.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
When someone here says something about guns and violence in America, some of you who are gun enthusiasts who have taken gun safety classes (I have and I don't even shoot guns) and have a responsible attitude towards firearms might slow down a bit on taking some of these comments personally. For exampled, when I say America is addicted to violence, I don't mean you... or you... I mean, in general. Face it, we are. Look at TV, movies, games, media. We (America) LOVE violence.
And it's the gun extremists, the ones who want no controls, who think all people will act responsibly so we don't need laws or gun control or background checks and who think it's OK for average citizens to have automatic weapons- they are the ones that are causing a lot of the problem. Why would any responsible person defend that kind of behavior? I don't get it.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
He is an interesting human being. But I don’t see the point you are trying to make? Guy tried to save his own life first, like most people would, and then the rest is up for debate. He said/she said all over the article. What do you want him to do?
Point is that this guy is always posting pictures of himself with guns...real tough guy. He supposedly wanted to be a Navy Seal and didn't make it.
I feel like I am missing something. Was he supposed to do something that he didn’t? Are we blaming him for people dying? Or is he just being shown as an example of gun culture?
I don’t get the point of the article as a whole. Just to bash someone famous for saving his ass? Wanting him to have had all of his guns on hand to defend everyone? I don’t expect anyone in that type of situation to be macho, no one was prepared for it
Post edited by drakeheuer14 on
Pittsburgh 2013 Cincinnati 2014 Greenville 2016 (Raleigh 2016) Columbia 2016
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and then the ones who just get off on having firepower
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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mass-shootings-are-a-bad-way-to-understand-gun-violence/
“You could, theoretically, cut down on all these deaths with a blanket removal of guns from the U.S. entirely — something that is as politically unlikely as it is legally untenable.”
There is no magic spell that is just going to make guns go away in the US, but as the article suggests, many other things could change. The same changes that may stop a mass shooting would do little to stop other forms of gun violence. Personally, I am a big supporter of individual responsibilities. There are no quick fixes that are going to guarantee that this sort of thing will not happen again. That’s reality. That being said, what could an average person be doing on top of bitching about politics on an AMT forum? Go to the fucking active shooter awareness classes that many cities make available for free. They teach you to be aware of basic warning signs that could help a person recognize potentially unsafe places. Take some basic first aid classes (even just a CPR class is better than nothing). Learn some simple techniques for staying somewhat calm and focused during chaos. Take a firearm safety course (whether or not you are a gun owner), that way you can educate your friends and family about firearm safety.
Do not take this to mean that I am telling you to stop whatever fight you are trying to win in the gun debate, but think of it as supplemental education. If saving lives is truly the main goal, then fucking learn some life saving techniques. They may not stop a person from raining down gunfire on a bunch of people, but may save a few lives when, yes “when”, another event like this takes place. This is stuff you could do today instead of waiting for some unlikely gun control measure to be implemented that would effectively end crazy people doing crazy things.
John Paul Stevens said that the 2nd amendment was likely intended to have included those FIVE WORDS so that arming state militias would be considered constitutional. NOT the arming of every citizen.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-five-extra-words-that-can-fix-the-second-amendment/2014/04/11/f8a19578-b8fa-11e3-96ae-f2c36d2b1245_story.html?utm_term=.37deeefa795d
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
What a macho, gun-packing Instagram star did when he was caught in the Las Vegas shooting
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/10/03/what-a-macho-gun-packing-instagram-star-did-when-he-was-caught-in-the-las-vegas-shooting/?tid=pm_pop
Now mine are mostly .22s, and the ones that aren't are bolt or lever action, I don't have anything that could even be modified to replicate automatic fire. I don't know why anyone who has a different hobby thinks we are getting off with it. I just ignore it and chalk it up to one of those from the party of tolerance being intolerant of anyone who has a different belief or even hobby now than they do.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
www.headstonesband.com
So in other words... get used to it.
Unbelievable.
Actually it's not. You guys elected Donald Trump. If you have the collective mindset to do that... why would anyone think you'd be wise enough to solve your gun problem which is far easier than gun advocates make it out to be?
Simply put: the will to solve the problem isn't there. You guys would rather have Sandy Hooks than relinquish the opportunity to shoot machine guns at empty beer cans at the landfill.
You submitted a post that encourages people to be prepared for mass shootings.
To me... that says 'get used to it'.
The answer is simple, Power, whether you care to admit it or not. I stand by my statement: the will to change is not there. Your country is willing to feature mass shootings so that people can shoot shit with cool guns.
I agree with this completely.
www.headstonesband.com
I disagree with your analogy to some degree, Hugh. If some self gratifying hobby had the undesirable effect of yielding dramatically heightened levels of rape, then we would take the steps to safeguard women so they were not subjected to rape- not by telling them how to be careful when around men... but by dismantling the hobby.
The conversations cannot be about how to be safe in a dangerous country. The conversations need to be about how to make a dangerous country safer.
I own about 20 guns I've collected over a period of about 20 years and have several hundred rounds of ammo right now, but would make for a terrible mass shooter.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with the amount of guns I own. About half are rifles, of which are several .22 (literally the smallest caliber) that range from pump action, semi auto that is barrel fed so takes forever to load, and magazine fed with a capacity of 8 rounds. A few bolt action and lever action and one black powder that takes about 2 minutes a shot.
My hand guns are mostly revolvers of different styles which typically hold 6 and are slow to reload. My semi-auto pistols have a magazine capacity of 8 because that was the limit in the state at the time I purchased them. I since moved and don't care to buy high capacity magazines now that they are legal, I'm completely happy with my limit of 8.
Why so much ammo? Why do you shop at Costco? Like anything else, its a lot cheaper in bulk. I can buy a box of 50 rounds for $20 That would last 20 minutes. Or a can of 250 rounds for $50. If anyone is willing to set up a go fund me account for my ammo I'd be happy to buy in smaller quantities, and I wouldn't have to bother storing it either.
I used to go target shooting about twice a year in the open desert or mountains. But due to cost of ammo and having small children now, I've gone twice in the last three years.
I am completely fine with heavy restrictions on assault rifles. They don't need to be banned completely, just ban the components that make it an assault rifle. Small magazine limits and a truly fixed magazine.
I'm okay with background checks, registering all guns, magazine limits on hand guns, eliminating the gun-show loophole and most everything else short of an all out ban on guns.
I've found most gun owners are like me in terms with why they own a firearm and what gun restrictions they are comfortable with. Polls about gun restrictions aren't accurate because that has such a broad meaning. Some proposed (and I think even passed in certain states) prohibit the sale of factory reloads. Why would anyone be against recycling? They are just as safe, just recycled material so they cost a lot less. Restrictions like that come across as not a restriction on safety, but an attempt to prevent people from buying guns and ammo in general so it is met with resistance. The amount of gun owners who support realistic gun control is pretty high in my experience.
Unfortunately, as the case with almost all groups, the loudest don't often represent the majority. CNN won't put guys like me in an interview, or on the cover of Guns and Ammo. They'll interview the guy with the AR-15 strapped around his shoulder wearing a sleeveless shirt about the second amendment and tell the American people that's the average gun owner.
I agree with PJPOWER. Both conversations need to be had.
www.headstonesband.com
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
And it's the gun extremists, the ones who want no controls, who think all people will act responsibly so we don't need laws or gun control or background checks and who think it's OK for average citizens to have automatic weapons- they are the ones that are causing a lot of the problem. Why would any responsible person defend that kind of behavior? I don't get it.
I don’t get the point of the article as a whole. Just to bash someone famous for saving his ass? Wanting him to have had all of his guns on hand to defend everyone? I don’t expect anyone in that type of situation to be macho, no one was prepared for it
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016