America's Gun Violence

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  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Well his general stance on guns isn't the primary factor in his clemency grants, it is unfair sentencing in drug crimes.
    The link you posted shows examples of people who have served their time and are being granted clemency on ridiculous drug crime sentences, not people who are being forgiven for non-violent firearm crimes, as it is being framed.
    That narrative that we only need to enforce current laws, not add new ones is supported by this distraction tactic, "look, that POTUS that you hate isn't enforcing gun laws but wants to make new ones, see, we were right all along!".
    The facts don't seem to matter.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited November 2016
    rgambs said:

    Well his general stance on guns isn't the primary factor in his clemency grants, it is unfair sentencing in drug crimes.
    The link you posted shows examples of people who have served their time and are being granted clemency on ridiculous drug crime sentences, not people who are being forgiven for non-violent firearm crimes, as it is being framed.
    That narrative that we only need to enforce current laws, not add new ones is supported by this distraction tactic, "look, that POTUS that you hate isn't enforcing gun laws but wants to make new ones, see, we were right all along!".
    The facts don't seem to matter.

    In my opinion, people convicted of drug crimes are the ones you would least want carrying weapons and the ones that should face the harshest penalties related to gun crime convictions. I'm not talking about your run of the mill pot dealer, but related to hard drugs that are associated with violence (meth, crack), which are the ones these criminals were convicted for. A very large percentage of violent gun crimes are associated with the illicit use or distribution of drugs. That would make it relevant to not give those convicted of carrying guns while dealing drugs any kind of leniency. So I am assuming that this push for mandatory sentencing for gun crimes and everything is just smoke and mirrors? Again, show me some data that Obama has taken a hard line approach on enforcement of any firearm related crimes. I believe more and more that these talking heads just want to get their name on some kind of legislation and then care less as to whether or not it actually gets enforced.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJPOWER said:

    rgambs said:

    Well his general stance on guns isn't the primary factor in his clemency grants, it is unfair sentencing in drug crimes.
    The link you posted shows examples of people who have served their time and are being granted clemency on ridiculous drug crime sentences, not people who are being forgiven for non-violent firearm crimes, as it is being framed.
    That narrative that we only need to enforce current laws, not add new ones is supported by this distraction tactic, "look, that POTUS that you hate isn't enforcing gun laws but wants to make new ones, see, we were right all along!".
    The facts don't seem to matter.

    In my opinion, people convicted of drug crimes are the ones you would least want carrying weapons and the ones that should face the harshest penalties related to gun crime convictions. A very large percentage of violent gun crimes are associated with the illicit use or distribution of drugs. That would make it relevant to not give those convicted of carrying guns while dealing drugs any kind of leniency. So I am assuming that this push for mandatory sentencing for gun crimes and everything is just smoke and mirrors? Again, show me some data that Obama has taken a hard line approach on enforcement of any firearm related crimes. I believe more and more that these talking heads just want to get their name on some kind of legislation and then care less as to whether or not it actually gets enforced.
    It's not incumbent on me to prove talking heads care.
    I am just pointing out that the narrative put forward and backed by the link doesn't hold water.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,028
    PJPOWER said:

    rgambs said:

    Well his general stance on guns isn't the primary factor in his clemency grants, it is unfair sentencing in drug crimes.
    The link you posted shows examples of people who have served their time and are being granted clemency on ridiculous drug crime sentences, not people who are being forgiven for non-violent firearm crimes, as it is being framed.
    That narrative that we only need to enforce current laws, not add new ones is supported by this distraction tactic, "look, that POTUS that you hate isn't enforcing gun laws but wants to make new ones, see, we were right all along!".
    The facts don't seem to matter.

    In my opinion, people convicted of drug crimes are the ones you would least want carrying weapons and the ones that should face the harshest penalties related to gun crime convictions. I'm not talking about your run of the mill pot dealer, but related to hard drugs that are associated with violence (meth, crack), which are the ones these criminals were convicted for. A very large percentage of violent gun crimes are associated with the illicit use or distribution of drugs. That would make it relevant to not give those convicted of carrying guns while dealing drugs any kind of leniency. So I am assuming that this push for mandatory sentencing for gun crimes and everything is just smoke and mirrors? Again, show me some data that Obama has taken a hard line approach on enforcement of any firearm related crimes. I believe more and more that these talking heads just want to get their name on some kind of legislation and then care less as to whether or not it actually gets enforced.
    yeah, at least on the surface, it doesn't exactly add up.
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJPOWER said:

    rgambs said:

    Well his general stance on guns isn't the primary factor in his clemency grants, it is unfair sentencing in drug crimes.
    The link you posted shows examples of people who have served their time and are being granted clemency on ridiculous drug crime sentences, not people who are being forgiven for non-violent firearm crimes, as it is being framed.
    That narrative that we only need to enforce current laws, not add new ones is supported by this distraction tactic, "look, that POTUS that you hate isn't enforcing gun laws but wants to make new ones, see, we were right all along!".
    The facts don't seem to matter.

    In my opinion, people convicted of drug crimes are the ones you would least want carrying weapons and the ones that should face the harshest penalties related to gun crime convictions. I'm not talking about your run of the mill pot dealer, but related to hard drugs that are associated with violence (meth, crack), which are the ones these criminals were convicted for. A very large percentage of violent gun crimes are associated with the illicit use or distribution of drugs. That would make it relevant to not give those convicted of carrying guns while dealing drugs any kind of leniency. So I am assuming that this push for mandatory sentencing for gun crimes and everything is just smoke and mirrors? Again, show me some data that Obama has taken a hard line approach on enforcement of any firearm related crimes. I believe more and more that these talking heads just want to get their name on some kind of legislation and then care less as to whether or not it actually gets enforced.
    I'm of the opinion that these are the least worrisome gun owners given the current reality. I say this because typically, they target each other as they conduct their business. And, if one chooses to enter the drug world as a player... then getting shot is par for the course (it's an assumed and inherent risk within the drug trade).

    Legalize drugs. Doing so is decades overdue.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited November 2016
    rgambs said:

    PJPOWER said:

    rgambs said:

    Well his general stance on guns isn't the primary factor in his clemency grants, it is unfair sentencing in drug crimes.
    The link you posted shows examples of people who have served their time and are being granted clemency on ridiculous drug crime sentences, not people who are being forgiven for non-violent firearm crimes, as it is being framed.
    That narrative that we only need to enforce current laws, not add new ones is supported by this distraction tactic, "look, that POTUS that you hate isn't enforcing gun laws but wants to make new ones, see, we were right all along!".
    The facts don't seem to matter.

    In my opinion, people convicted of drug crimes are the ones you would least want carrying weapons and the ones that should face the harshest penalties related to gun crime convictions. A very large percentage of violent gun crimes are associated with the illicit use or distribution of drugs. That would make it relevant to not give those convicted of carrying guns while dealing drugs any kind of leniency. So I am assuming that this push for mandatory sentencing for gun crimes and everything is just smoke and mirrors? Again, show me some data that Obama has taken a hard line approach on enforcement of any firearm related crimes. I believe more and more that these talking heads just want to get their name on some kind of legislation and then care less as to whether or not it actually gets enforced.
    It's not incumbent on me to prove talking heads care.
    I am just pointing out that the narrative put forward and backed by the link doesn't hold water.
    Neither does the argument that they all had to do with random unjustified drug related convictions.
    https://www.google.com/amp/ijr.com/2015/12/496707-4-of-the-95-prisoners-obama-just-set-free-had-nothing-to-do-with-drug-sentences/amp/?client=safari
    And then there is this.
    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/31/obama-gun-control-push-undercut-by-fall-in-prosecu/
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJPOWER said:

    rgambs said:

    Well his general stance on guns isn't the primary factor in his clemency grants, it is unfair sentencing in drug crimes.
    The link you posted shows examples of people who have served their time and are being granted clemency on ridiculous drug crime sentences, not people who are being forgiven for non-violent firearm crimes, as it is being framed.
    That narrative that we only need to enforce current laws, not add new ones is supported by this distraction tactic, "look, that POTUS that you hate isn't enforcing gun laws but wants to make new ones, see, we were right all along!".
    The facts don't seem to matter.

    In my opinion, people convicted of drug crimes are the ones you would least want carrying weapons and the ones that should face the harshest penalties related to gun crime convictions. I'm not talking about your run of the mill pot dealer, but related to hard drugs that are associated with violence (meth, crack), which are the ones these criminals were convicted for. A very large percentage of violent gun crimes are associated with the illicit use or distribution of drugs. That would make it relevant to not give those convicted of carrying guns while dealing drugs any kind of leniency. So I am assuming that this push for mandatory sentencing for gun crimes and everything is just smoke and mirrors? Again, show me some data that Obama has taken a hard line approach on enforcement of any firearm related crimes. I believe more and more that these talking heads just want to get their name on some kind of legislation and then care less as to whether or not it actually gets enforced.
    I'm of the opinion that these are the least worrisome gun owners given the current reality. I say this because typically, they target each other as they conduct their business. And, if one chooses to enter the drug world as a player... then getting shot is par for the course (it's an assumed and inherent risk within the drug trade).

    Legalize drugs. Doing so is decades overdue.
    I definitely agree with you about current drug laws, prohibition just leads to to a competitive and violent market. The "war on drugs" has systematically failed. I feel that at this point, that would also render true with firearms as well. Thank goodness no one is trying to prohibit them as a strategy for success...
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    2 white collar crimes and 2 others, out of 95...yeah, not super significant.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    rgambs said:

    2 white collar crimes and 2 others, out of 95...yeah, not super significant.

    Regardless of whether you consider the drug crimes of any importance, they were still felonies and they were in possession of firearms. Granted, there are not a ton of examples where drugs were not involved. We're nitpicking now, but this one does seem relevant:
    Carolyn Yvonne Butler

    Crime: Three counts each of armed bank robbery and using a firearm during a violent crime

    Sentence: 48 years in prison

    Butler robbed three banks at gunpoint in 1991 - one on June 4, another on July 10, and the third on November 22. She reportedly purchased a .25 caliber pistol in San Antonio two days before the first crime.

    Though she appealed her guilty verdicts, the U.S. Court of Appeals upheld her convictions.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJPOWER said:

    rgambs said:

    2 white collar crimes and 2 others, out of 95...yeah, not super significant.

    Regardless of whether you consider the drug crimes of any importance, they were still felonies and they were in possession of firearms. Granted, there are not a ton of examples where drugs were not involved. We're nitpicking now, but this one does seem relevant:
    Carolyn Yvonne Butler

    Crime: Three counts each of armed bank robbery and using a firearm during a violent crime

    Sentence: 48 years in prison

    Butler robbed three banks at gunpoint in 1991 - one on June 4, another on July 10, and the third on November 22. She reportedly purchased a .25 caliber pistol in San Antonio two days before the first crime.

    Though she appealed her guilty verdicts, the U.S. Court of Appeals upheld her convictions.
    Yeah, I saw that, I am sure there is a reason clemency was granted, whether I would agree with it or not.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    I've yet to see any data that Obama has been tough on ANY crime, let alone gun crimes...sure talks a big talk though. How do you get the votes from criminals when you are tough on them...what a conundrum. Sorry, my cynical side is getting the best of me today. Must be because an asshat will be elected president today...one way or another.
  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    I guess the media and far left's obsession with stripping Americans of their 2nd Amendment rights will subside for a bit now.
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,196
    rssesq said:

    I guess the media and far left's obsession with stripping Americans of their 2nd Amendment rights will subside for a bit now.

    Yet another reason Hillary lost. Don't mention Australia and the second amendment.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,641
    Drumpf victory is bad news for the gun and ammo industry.

    Now the gun lovers won't be running to their local gun shop to stock up on guns and ammo in fear of the 2nd amendment being abolished.
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,196
    Bentleyspop said:

    Drumpf victory is bad news for the gun and ammo industry.

    Now the gun lovers won't be running to their local gun shop to stock up on guns and ammo in fear of the 2nd amendment being abolished.

    This is true. Hopefully prices come down and ammo becomes more readily available.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    CARRY ON AMERICA
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Time to get some repealing done.
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    unsung said:

    Time to get some repealing done.

    http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/11/09/five-fast-gun-law-reforms-president-trump-will-make/?utm_content=buffer08007&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,641
    More good guys with guns...

    1 Police Officer Killed, 3 Officers Injured In Separate Shootings Sunday
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/21/502854929/1-police-officer-killed-3-officers-injured-in-separate-shootings-sunday
  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    npr's agenda is known
    carry on america
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