America's Gun Violence

Gern Blansten

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/court-upholds-reach-us-gun-ban-domestic-violence-40159182?cid=abcn_fb

Good news for once...

A 6-2 ruling.

mcgruff10

PJPOWER said:

So I do not know how I overlooked this report based off of a CDC study done after Obama's executive order in 2013. Number 7 on the list of findings is hard to ignore...
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

That s a solid article right there.

eddiec

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Stickman12 said:

The ISIS thing must be a late April fools joke then? he was christian then right?? and the FBI was watching him for shits and giggles? now this is making sense.

His father is a Taliban supporter, which I think is why this guy was on the watch list and investigated, and then he was taken off of it because there was no evidence ever found against him suggesting that he was involved in terrorist activity (and there still isn't, if we're talking ties to a terrorist group or any kind of organizing on his part. This guy seems to have just been a wacked out lone wolf with a sexual identity crisis and a fucked up dad).

Seems to make perfect sense... what you say.

His father was a Taliban supporter, but likely never shared his extremist views with his son... so it's highly improbable the idiot inherited the same, or similar views.

He was a person of interest and on the watch list.

He pledged his allegiance to ISIS , but not with enough notice for everyone to take him seriously - or for anyone to take him down prior to his event.

Yah. This is just a case of a crazy guy. It has nothing at all to do with extreme religious views.

The crazy thing is the father came to the US when we were allies with the Taliban. He was our brother in arms.

PJPOWER said:

So I do not know how I overlooked this report based off of a CDC study done after Obama's executive order in 2013. Number 7 on the list of findings is hard to ignore...
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

All of these reports about Defensive Gun Use seem to vary and I think common sense needs to prevail.
http://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/
These sorts of biases, which are inherent in reporting self-defense incidents, can lead to nonsensical results. In several crime categories, for example, gun owners would have to protect themselves more than 100 percent of the time for Kleck and Getz’s estimates to make sense. For example, guns were allegedly used in self-defense in 845,000 burglaries, according to Kleck and Getz. However, from reliable victimization surveys, we know that there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries where someone was in the home at the time of the crime, and only 33 percent of these had occupants who weren’t sleeping. From surveys on firearm ownership, we also know that 42 percent of U.S. households owned firearms at the time of the survey. Even if burglars only rob houses of gun owners, and those gun owners use their weapons in self-defense every single time they are awake, the 845,000 statistic cited in Kleck and Gertz’s paper is simply mathematically impossible.

Cliffy6745

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

Oh, I agree. I misconstrued your previous statements to mean gun owners are idiots... I realize now that was not what you were saying.

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

Oh, I agree. I misconstrued your previous statements to mean gun owners are idiots... I realize now that was not what you were saying.

The paranoia gun culture and marketing discussed in that segement is what I was largely referring to

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

Oh, I agree. I misconstrued your previous statements to mean gun owners are idiots... I realize now that was not what you were saying.

The paranoia gun culture and marketing discussed in that segement is what I was largely referring to

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. From personal experience, my "paranoia" comes from working in Social Work for 12 years. I got to see the best and the worst of society, and trust me, if people knew how many of the "worst" are walking by them every day, they would be a lot more vigilant and aware of their surroundings...especially if you happen to be a woman or elderly. There are so many facets of shitty people out there preying on the weak that it would make your head spin. I try to encourage everyone to take a class that teaches you how to recognize body language, exits, etc. The societal drift (more people) is definitely producing more shit that you have to watch out for. I'm not saying that people should be paranoid and never leave their houses or live in bunkers or anything but definitely aware that there is a growing threat even on your regular trips to get gas. I cringe every time I see people walking around in public staring at their phones. It's not just gun manufacturers pushing for people to carry, but most law enforcement officers will encourage it as well because they also have an awareness that the general public does not have. Many CCW instructors are actually retired law enforcement officers or people that come from public service backgrounds...trust me, there is a reason why.

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

Oh, I agree. I misconstrued your previous statements to mean gun owners are idiots... I realize now that was not what you were saying.

The paranoia gun culture and marketing discussed in that segement is what I was largely referring to

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. From personal experience, my "paranoia" comes from working in Social Work for 12 years. I got to see the best and the worst of society, and trust me, if people knew how many of the "worst" are walking by them every day, they would be a lot more vigilant and aware of their surroundings...especially if you happen to be a woman or elderly. There are so many facets of shitty people out there preying on the weak that it would make your head spin. I try to encourage everyone to take a class that teaches you how to recognize body language, exits, etc. The societal drift (more people) is definitely producing more shit that you have to watch out for. I'm not saying that people should be paranoid and never leave their houses or live in bunkers or anything but definitely aware that there is a growing threat even on your regular trips to get gas. I cringe every time I see people walking around in public staring at their phones. It's not just gun manufacturers pushing for people to carry, but most law enforcement officers will encourage it as well because they also have an awareness that the general public does not have. Many CCW instructors are actually retired law enforcement officers or people that come from public service backgrounds...trust me, there is a reason why.

The world is a scary place, no doubt, and some professions like yours see the scary side a lot more than others. The segment I posted touches on a lot of the things you mention, actually.

It discusses how you are more like to be a homicide victim if you own a gun.

It discuss the culture and change in marketing of guns that has now gone to full blown paranoia from a marketing perspective. This is the gun companies telling people they should be scared and need to own a gun.

It discusses how law enforcement has historically not wanted concealed carry as they wanted to know who had guns and who didn't.

It is a good conversation.

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

Oh, I agree. I misconstrued your previous statements to mean gun owners are idiots... I realize now that was not what you were saying.

The paranoia gun culture and marketing discussed in that segement is what I was largely referring to

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. From personal experience, my "paranoia" comes from working in Social Work for 12 years. I got to see the best and the worst of society, and trust me, if people knew how many of the "worst" are walking by them every day, they would be a lot more vigilant and aware of their surroundings...especially if you happen to be a woman or elderly. There are so many facets of shitty people out there preying on the weak that it would make your head spin. I try to encourage everyone to take a class that teaches you how to recognize body language, exits, etc. The societal drift (more people) is definitely producing more shit that you have to watch out for. I'm not saying that people should be paranoid and never leave their houses or live in bunkers or anything but definitely aware that there is a growing threat even on your regular trips to get gas. I cringe every time I see people walking around in public staring at their phones. It's not just gun manufacturers pushing for people to carry, but most law enforcement officers will encourage it as well because they also have an awareness that the general public does not have. Many CCW instructors are actually retired law enforcement officers or people that come from public service backgrounds...trust me, there is a reason why.

The world is a scary place, no doubt, and some professions like yours see the scary side a lot more than others. The segment I posted touches on a lot of the things you mention, actually.

It discusses how you are more like to be a homicide victim if you own a gun.

It discuss the culture and change in marketing of guns that has now gone to full blown paranoia from a marketing perspective. This is the gun companies telling people they should be scared and need to own a gun.

It discusses how law enforcement has historically not wanted concealed carry as they wanted to know who had guns and who didn't.

It is a good conversation.

It is a good conversation. 20 years ago, I probably wouldn't have been as apt to conceal carry as I am now. If nothing else, any gun around was too bulky to do so comfortably. Did you know that most conceal carry guns purchased today were designed in response to Clinton's magazine limit regulations? With the smaller magazines came smaller guns, now anyone can hide one in their pocket and either use it for self defense or bad things. I still believe in the equalization or superior force technique if faced with someone wanting to harm me or my family. I fully understand the ramifications if I were to be negligent and plan/store my shit accordingly. It is interesting how law enforcement is pushing for many to conceal carry now, though. I guess because it is unrealistic to try to know who has a gun and who does not now with them being so small?

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

Oh, I agree. I misconstrued your previous statements to mean gun owners are idiots... I realize now that was not what you were saying.

The paranoia gun culture and marketing discussed in that segement is what I was largely referring to

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. From personal experience, my "paranoia" comes from working in Social Work for 12 years. I got to see the best and the worst of society, and trust me, if people knew how many of the "worst" are walking by them every day, they would be a lot more vigilant and aware of their surroundings...especially if you happen to be a woman or elderly. There are so many facets of shitty people out there preying on the weak that it would make your head spin. I try to encourage everyone to take a class that teaches you how to recognize body language, exits, etc. The societal drift (more people) is definitely producing more shit that you have to watch out for. I'm not saying that people should be paranoid and never leave their houses or live in bunkers or anything but definitely aware that there is a growing threat even on your regular trips to get gas. I cringe every time I see people walking around in public staring at their phones. It's not just gun manufacturers pushing for people to carry, but most law enforcement officers will encourage it as well because they also have an awareness that the general public does not have. Many CCW instructors are actually retired law enforcement officers or people that come from public service backgrounds...trust me, there is a reason why.

The world is a scary place, no doubt, and some professions like yours see the scary side a lot more than others. The segment I posted touches on a lot of the things you mention, actually.

It discusses how you are more like to be a homicide victim if you own a gun.

It discuss the culture and change in marketing of guns that has now gone to full blown paranoia from a marketing perspective. This is the gun companies telling people they should be scared and need to own a gun.

It discusses how law enforcement has historically not wanted concealed carry as they wanted to know who had guns and who didn't.

It is a good conversation.

It is a good conversation. 20 years ago, I probably wouldn't have been as apt to conceal carry as I am now. If nothing else, any gun around was too bulky to do so comfortably. Did you know that most conceal carry guns purchased today were designed in response to Clinton's magazine limit regulations? With the smaller magazines came smaller guns, now anyone can hide one in their pocket and either use it for self defense or bad things. I still believe in the equalization or superior force technique if faced with someone wanting to harm me or my family. I fully understand the ramifications if I were to be negligent and plan/store my shit accordingly. It is interesting how law enforcement is pushing for many to conceal carry now, though. I guess because it is unrealistic to try to know who has a gun and who does not now with them being so small?

Yeah, I thought the discussion around the size of guns and how it has changed was really interesting. It has completely changed the gun conversation, to an extent I was not aware of or at least did not consider until I heard that.

I am not a fan of concealed carry. There are way too many hot heads that have no business carting a gun on them for my liking. It's incredible now the NRA's position on this has changed over the years as well...quite hypocritical if you ask me.

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Good god, listening to this made me so angry. People are fucking idiots.

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/23/483211713/handguns-in-america-and-the-rise-of-the-concealed-carry-lifestyle

'Merica! Happy 4th, all...

Speaking of "fucking idiots"...
http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/27/no-way-26-democrats-who-participated-in-house-sitin-are-gun-owners-n2183741

You are aware that it is possible to own a gun but also want better regulations for buying one, no?

Oh, I agree. I misconstrued your previous statements to mean gun owners are idiots... I realize now that was not what you were saying.

The paranoia gun culture and marketing discussed in that segement is what I was largely referring to

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. From personal experience, my "paranoia" comes from working in Social Work for 12 years. I got to see the best and the worst of society, and trust me, if people knew how many of the "worst" are walking by them every day, they would be a lot more vigilant and aware of their surroundings...especially if you happen to be a woman or elderly. There are so many facets of shitty people out there preying on the weak that it would make your head spin. I try to encourage everyone to take a class that teaches you how to recognize body language, exits, etc. The societal drift (more people) is definitely producing more shit that you have to watch out for. I'm not saying that people should be paranoid and never leave their houses or live in bunkers or anything but definitely aware that there is a growing threat even on your regular trips to get gas. I cringe every time I see people walking around in public staring at their phones. It's not just gun manufacturers pushing for people to carry, but most law enforcement officers will encourage it as well because they also have an awareness that the general public does not have. Many CCW instructors are actually retired law enforcement officers or people that come from public service backgrounds...trust me, there is a reason why.

The world is a scary place, no doubt, and some professions like yours see the scary side a lot more than others. The segment I posted touches on a lot of the things you mention, actually.

It discusses how you are more like to be a homicide victim if you own a gun.

It discuss the culture and change in marketing of guns that has now gone to full blown paranoia from a marketing perspective. This is the gun companies telling people they should be scared and need to own a gun.

It discusses how law enforcement has historically not wanted concealed carry as they wanted to know who had guns and who didn't.

It is a good conversation.

It is a good conversation. 20 years ago, I probably wouldn't have been as apt to conceal carry as I am now. If nothing else, any gun around was too bulky to do so comfortably. Did you know that most conceal carry guns purchased today were designed in response to Clinton's magazine limit regulations? With the smaller magazines came smaller guns, now anyone can hide one in their pocket and either use it for self defense or bad things. I still believe in the equalization or superior force technique if faced with someone wanting to harm me or my family. I fully understand the ramifications if I were to be negligent and plan/store my shit accordingly. It is interesting how law enforcement is pushing for many to conceal carry now, though. I guess because it is unrealistic to try to know who has a gun and who does not now with them being so small?

Yeah, I thought the discussion around the size of guns and how it has changed was really interesting. It has completely changed the gun conversation, to an extent I was not aware of or at least did not consider until I heard that.

I am not a fan of concealed carry. There are way too many hot heads that have no business carting a gun on them for my liking. It's incredible now the NRA's position on this has changed over the years as well...quite hypocritical if you ask me.

Yes, much has changed over the years. Technology has created problems and solutions alike. Before the last "assault weapon ban", there were relatively few people owning them. Now, different versions of them are readily available to anyone with the slightest machining knowledge or a 3D printer. I just do not see a "ban" on any gun as being as easy simply because they are in the spotlight now. It would take an all out war, and no one wants that! I know we differ somewhat on the conceal carry issue, and realize that it probably comes from it being the way I have chosen and trained to protect myself and those around me if needed. The thing I have a hard time with is taking away choices in that respect. Even laws are based around choice and whether someone chooses to follow them or not. Hypothetically, let's say that new legislation was impossible(pretty much seems deadlocked now anyway) how else could we make steps in providing a safer environment for ourselves and others? I support education and training, but am open to other ideas. How could we help each other in a situation where someone decides to go bat shit crazy?

dudeman

It's sad that new laws are always the de facto response to tragedy.

The existing laws need to be enforced and gun violence will decline.

If our government would properly fund law enforcement agencies and municipalities would do the same, there would be less bloodshed at the hands of armed criminals.

I know I have brought it up before, but we should really be more concerned with suicide rates in this country, too.

PJ_Soul

Well if everyone were really doing their jobs anywhere close to well, there would be a whole lot fewer armed criminals in the first place. But keep in mind that the events that really fuel this debate more than anything else - the mass shootings - are usually committed by people who weren't criminals until the day they committed a mass murder.

PJPOWER

PJ_Soul said:

Well if everyone were really doing their jobs anywhere close to well, there would be a whole lot fewer armed criminals in the first place. But keep in mind that the events that really fuel this debate more than anything else - the mass shootings - are usually committed by people who weren't criminals until the day they committed a mass murder.

Even still, there are smart and unsmart things that the general public should do and can do when introduced to those criminals that help themselves and often others survive. Lets do that while the government is in deadlock. Our city has already started active shooter awareness trainings, usually organized by law enforcement or someone highly trained in such situations. I bet your city does them too... Legislation wise, push financial incentives of some sort for becoming more of an asset to society by taking these classes!

PJ_Soul

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

Well if everyone were really doing their jobs anywhere close to well, there would be a whole lot fewer armed criminals in the first place. But keep in mind that the events that really fuel this debate more than anything else - the mass shootings - are usually committed by people who weren't criminals until the day they committed a mass murder.

Even still, there are smart and unsmart things that the general public should do and can do when introduced to those criminals that help themselves and often others survive. Lets do that while the government is in deadlock. Our city has already started active shooter awareness trainings, usually organized by law enforcement or someone highly trained in such situations. I bet your city does them too...

What, active shooter training for the public??? Or you mean just police training exercises (which yeah, sure, just about all police forces train for that now I would imagine). If you mean for the public, I guess yeah, kind of. Universities kind of do it anyway. I don't think anyone is actually signing up for such things. Campus security forces stage it... but TBH the public isn't even really involved in that. They just tell us that they are training for it so that no one thinks there is a real active shooting happening. Last time they did this I don't think they asked staff or anything to really participate.

Degeneratefk

The idea that active shooter training will do anything to reduce active shooter deaths is ludicrous. Active shooter training does not stop a loon from buying a gun. Active shooter training doesn't protect night clubs. Active shooter training does not prevent anything. It's just talk. Every American citizen can go through hours of active shooter training and we will still have mass shootings.

PJ_Soul

Degeneratefk said:

The idea that active shooter training will do anything to reduce active shooter deaths is ludicrous. Active shooter training does not stop a loon from buying a gun. Active shooter training doesn't protect night clubs. Active shooter training does not prevent anything. It's just talk. Every American citizen can go through hours of active shooter training and we will still have mass shootings.

Well, if it involves the public, I think it might at least kind of condition people to hide or hit the ground instead of panicking and making themselves more of a target and to do things that will maximize their chances of survival. Say a part of the training tells people to play dead, or to hide in such-and-such kind of a spot vs some other kind of spot, don't run yourself into dead ends if you can help it, don't just stand there like an idiot screaming "oh my god!!", how to handle yourself in a human stampede so you don't get trampled, cues that tell you whether running or hiding is the best chance for survival, etc etc. Never underestimate the ability of random people caught off guard in dangerous situations to make stupid decisions or to not make any decisions at all unless they are specifically prepared to do so. No one is suggesting that active shooter training will stop mass shootings obviously ... in fact, they suggest the exact opposite. The whole point is to train people to handle mass shootings so that they can be a survivor.

Degeneratefk

PJ_Soul said:

Degeneratefk said:

The idea that active shooter training will do anything to reduce active shooter deaths is ludicrous. Active shooter training does not stop a loon from buying a gun. Active shooter training doesn't protect night clubs. Active shooter training does not prevent anything. It's just talk. Every American citizen can go through hours of active shooter training and we will still have mass shootings.

Well, if it involves the public, I think it might at least kind of condition people to hide or hit the ground instead of panicking and making themselves more of a target and to do things that will maximize their chances of survival. Say a part of the training tells people to play dead, or to hide in such-and-such kind of a spot vs some other kind of spot, don't run yourself into dead ends if you can help it, don't just stand there like an idiot screaming "oh my god!!", how to handle yourself in a human stampede so you don't get trampled, cues that tell you whether running or hiding is the best chance for survival, etc etc. Never underestimate the ability of random people caught off guard in dangerous situations to make stupid decisions or to not make any decisions at all unless they are specifically prepared to do so. No one is suggesting that active shooter training will stop mass shootings obviously ... in fact, they suggest the exact opposite. The whole point is to train people to handle mass shootings so that they can be a survivor.

The problem is that 1 two hour class random people may take will do nothing if 1) the random people retain the information. 2) the random people practice/drill the practical solutions taught. And 3) you could be a survival expert and end up dead from a number of reason. You could be the first one shot. The "untrained" people around you could get you killed.

I'm not saying goes it's a bad idea for people to inform themselves. I'm saying the problem isnt that people don't know what to do during an active shooter scenario. The problem is the ease by which people can get guns to act out these heinous acts.