Elliot Rodger - California killing spree - all the issues

goingtoverona

@thirty, then I would have to say the user group is the crazy wackjobs that go kill people. since i'm not one of those, I don't fall into that user group and shouldn't have to pay for their bull shit.

as far as the cars go, again, they aren't a necessity. they came about in the early 1900's, we don't need them. and the horse and saddle industry was too big to fail. it was a conspiracy.

it amazes me that you can be so passionate about saving human lives(people killed by guns) but then just casually toss tens of thousands of humans and countless more animals in the, oh well that's life pile. if we banned cars right now would it save lives? fuck yeah it would that was rhetorical. if people aren't willing to give up their cars to save human and animal lives and not dumping shit tons of pollution in our atmosphere just so they can get to work ten minutes earlier without their armpits sweating, then why should I give up my guns to save lives? but keep in mind, people killed by cars are up on my pedestal, like people killed by guns are for you. I could make room for some people killed by knives on my pedestal but that's about it.

I wanted to add, I use the car analogies because I think it's the best way to point out the hypocrisy.
personally I think when you hear of a human being kicking the bucket, I think the question should be did that person die of old age? if the answer is no, then the question should be how could we have prevented it. Not, was that person killed by a gun? no? phew I almost cared.

hey thirty you doin any shows, euro or American?

PJ_Soul

Cosmo said:

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

I somewhat agree on the pharma front...I mean, which way to go?

Someone needing medication doesn't take it, catastrophic results.

Someone needing medication does take it, with side-effects that could bring catastrophic results.

Someone doesn't need medication but is prescribed (or taking) it...etc.

Someone who is simply, maybe naturally, just utterly fucked up with no emotion, no empathy.

Just don't let people who take those kinds of drugs have guns. That

unsung said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.

As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.

Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.

...
You are treading on very dangerous ground here.
That means I can call the police on you and claim to be your father and tell them that you pose a threat to yourself and others.
The police can then, go to your door and see if you are okay or not. If you say you are okay, they could still enter your home and conduct a search of the premises without a bench issued search warrant.
That is a pretty scary proposition.
...
See the timeline I posted. They had 10 minutes between the time the e-mails were sent, received and read by the therapist, who contacted the mother, who contacted the father... then, called 9-1-1.
That is asking alot of local law enforcement.

Are you a therapist or psychiatrist and treating me? I'm not suggesting that just anyone can report such things. But I think that a mental health professional who is worried enough to contact the police should be assumed to be qualified here. I seriously doubt that therapists and psychiatrists make this kind of call very often at all. I think there are enough resources to respond to these kinds of cases, since I have no reason to think they are very common. It's a big deal with this kind of call is made IMO.

callen

For unsung:

Well ate my words a bit. Saw this story on way home from work. Good guy got robbers.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/3-schools-on-lockdown-as-police-search-for-robbery-suspects/26230464

Still don't agree with arming everyone but.....

Thirty Bills Unpaid

goingtoverona said:

@thirty, then I would have to say the user group is the crazy wackjobs that go kill people. since i'm not one of those, I don't fall into that user group and shouldn't have to pay for their bull shit.

as far as the cars go, again, they aren't a necessity. they came about in the early 1900's, we don't need them. and the horse and saddle industry was too big to fail. it was a conspiracy.

it amazes me that you can be so passionate about saving human lives(people killed by guns) but then just casually toss tens of thousands of humans and countless more animals in the, oh well that's life pile. if we banned cars right now would it save lives? fuck yeah it would that was rhetorical. if people aren't willing to give up their cars to save human and animal lives and not dumping shit tons of pollution in our atmosphere just so they can get to work ten minutes earlier without their armpits sweating, then why should I give up my guns to save lives? but keep in mind, people killed by cars are up on my pedestal, like people killed by guns are for you. I could make room for some people killed by knives on my pedestal but that's about it.

I wanted to add, I use the car analogies because I think it's the best way to point out the hypocrisy.
personally I think when you hear of a human being kicking the bucket, I think the question should be did that person die of old age? if the answer is no, then the question should be how could we have prevented it. Not, was that person killed by a gun? no? phew I almost cared.

hey thirty you doin any shows, euro or American?

No Euro shows. No American shows- there's nothing remotely close to me.

But... hey... that's the way it goes. I've been very fortunate to this point in time seeing them in Seattle and Vancouver multiple times in the past 5 years.

How about you?

* By the way... I understand what you are trying to say- I just don't agree with your rationale. This doesn't make me right or you right... we just differ.

gimmesometruth27

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/

ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

jmuscatello

perfect

hedonist

So what IS to be done?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

gimmesometruth27 said:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/

ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

I think one needs to break it down in as simple terms as possible:

Only nation where this regularly happens.

What is unique about this nation compared to other developed nations?

The United States is the most armed county in the world: 88.8 guns per 100 people. The U.S. has the most heavily armed citizens in the world. In fact, 62 per cent of Americans have more than one gun in their home or on their property.

The USA is #1! Kicking the shit out of wannabe #2 Yemen (54.8 guns per 100 people).

In comparison, Canada has 30.8 guns per 100 people.

* These numbers don't take into 'types' of guns. Handguns and assault rifles cannot be bought at the Big 5 Sporting good store in other countries. It's quite shocking and unnerving to see assault rifles on sales racks in a store in a strip mall by the Safeway.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/photos+countries+with+most+heavily+armed+civilians+earth/7720034/story.html

Merkin Baller

.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/

ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

I think one needs to break it down in as simple terms as possible:

Only nation where this regularly happens.

What is unique about this nation compared to other developed nations?

The United States is the most armed county in the world: 88.8 guns per 100 people. The U.S. has the most heavily armed citizens in the world. In fact, 62 per cent of Americans have more than one gun in their home or on their property.

The USA is #1! Kicking the shit out of wannabe #2 Yemen (54.8 guns per 100 people).

In comparison, Canada has 30.8 guns per 100 people.

* These numbers don't take into 'types' of guns. Handguns and assault rifles cannot be bought at the Big 5 Sporting good store in other countries. It's quite shocking and unnerving to see assault rifles on sales racks in a store in a strip mall by the Safeway.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/photos+countries+with+most+heavily+armed+civilians+earth/7720034/story.html

88.8 guns per 100 people. Smack my fuckin' head.

hedonist

So do we have a three-fer here?

Guns.

Mental health.

Misogyny.

Maybe or not in that order.

Byrnzie

chadwick said:

thank you, sir
a beautiful post

i have been told to read bukowski & i have a very little bit but never dove into his stuff. writing is my thing moreso than reading as i want my own... (way)
that & my attention span is that of a piece of worn down chalk nearly ungraspable

this is the key elliot shoulda picked up... poetry & finding his center
i will reinforce your words:
brokedown car, slim wallet, holes in shoes, a otherwise empty refrigerator but for the two year old jar of mayonnaise i forgot was rotting there

i am a poor ass dude who worships women as goddesses
therefore poetry is birthed as are wet
i am kissed, warmed & thrilled
hell, my barbaric nature is even accepted most of the time
i am grateful as i am

You'd love him. I suggest you get on it right away.

For his poetry, I recommend 'Betting on The Muse', and 'You Get So Alone At Times...'

For his short stories, get this beauty: http://www.amazon.com/Erections-Ejaculations-Exhibitions-General-Ordinary/dp/0872860612/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401441341&sr=8-1&keywords=bukowski+-+erections
(Maybe you can find a cheaper copy on E-Bay)

goingtoverona

@thirty, yeah i'm lucky enough to be hitting Austria, Germany, Sweden and Norway. then i'll prolly do the two acl shows since they are less than an hour away. we'll hang out sometime yo.

as far as the opinions go, yup, just different. no right or wrong, just different.

Gern Blansten

Godfather. said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Exactly...

And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...

Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.

all good points but....what about my right to own a gun ? are you saying no guns for the public ?


Godfather.

No not at all....I'm saying that there should be registration of guns (just like vehicles, boats, motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc.) so that law enforcement can determine what they are dealing with. In this situation they would have known that Rodgers had several guns, was making threats, had a concerned therapist, etc.

I am not against concealed carry (with a license...I have one).

I am completely for banning all assault weapons. There should be no weapon on the street (purchased legally) that is more powerful than what the police carry.

The whole right wing argument against registration (THE GOVERNMENT WILL COME DOOR TO DOOR AND TAKE OUR GUNS) is just ridiculous.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

goingtoverona said:

@thirty, yeah i'm lucky enough to be hitting Austria, Germany, Sweden and Norway. then i'll prolly do the two acl shows since they are less than an hour away. we'll hang out sometime yo.

as far as the opinions go, yup, just different. no right or wrong, just different.

Holy crap! Beauty.

Seize the moment, man. Do those 2 acl shows.

And remember to grab all the overtime shifts available after your 'tour'.

Gern Blansten

Cosmo said:

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

I somewhat agree on the pharma front...I mean, which way to go?

Someone needing medication doesn't take it, catastrophic results.

Someone needing medication does take it, with side-effects that could bring catastrophic results.

Someone doesn't need medication but is prescribed (or taking) it...etc.

Someone who is simply, maybe naturally, just utterly fucked up with no emotion, no empathy.

Just don't let people who take those kinds of drugs have guns. That

unsung said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.

As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.

Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.

...
You are treading on very dangerous ground here.
That means I can call the police on you and claim to be your father and tell them that you pose a threat to yourself and others.
The police can then, go to your door and see if you are okay or not. If you say you are okay, they could still enter your home and conduct a search of the premises without a bench issued search warrant.
That is a pretty scary proposition.
...
See the timeline I posted. They had 10 minutes between the time the e-mails were sent, received and read by the therapist, who contacted the mother, who contacted the father... then, called 9-1-1.
That is asking alot of local law enforcement.

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Exactly...

And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...

Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.

...
The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer?
And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion?
...
I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction.
Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me.
How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?

Exactly....and situations like that will happen.

Please post said extensive list where this situation has occurred. Every state has some form of concealed carry. Please show me the facts that concealed carry holders have accidentally shot bystanders.

I'm guessing you have a much greater chance at being shot by a cop.

Who said there was an extensive list? We are envisioning a scenario that is very likely to play out given the wild wild west culture the gun nuts are cultivating.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/29/florida-6-year-old-kills-grandfather-with-ak-47-left-unattended-by-boys-uncle-at-family-picnic/

Here is a good example of this culture...moron leaves assault rifle at family picnic

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/29/nevada-man-claims-stand-your-ground-after-shooting-couple-sleeping-at-his-vacant-property/

Moron kills sleeping man and almost kills woman (yes they were trespassing....perhaps a call to the police could have occurred?)

http://fox59.com/2014/05/27/woman-shot-after-gun-goes-off-inside-indiana-walmart-store/

Moron drops loaded weapon in Walmart...shoots woman who was pushing son in cart...what if that bullet had hit the boy in the head?

This is the gun culture in the USA

Gern Blansten

callen said:

For unsung:

Well ate my words a bit. Saw this story on way home from work. Good guy got robbers.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/3-schools-on-lockdown-as-police-search-for-robbery-suspects/26230464

Still don't agree with arming everyone but.....

This is vigilante justice. The marine should have called the police. What makes him feel like he should go get his gun and wait on the robbers? Yes they robbed the store...did they deserve to die?

What if someone in the parking lot had been struck and killed by a bullet in that exchange? Someone who would NOT have been killed had the guy noted their license plate # and direction of travel and called the police?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

PJ_Soul said:

hedonist said:

I somewhat agree on the pharma front...I mean, which way to go?

Someone needing medication doesn't take it, catastrophic results.

Someone needing medication does take it, with side-effects that could bring catastrophic results.

Someone doesn't need medication but is prescribed (or taking) it...etc.

Someone who is simply, maybe naturally, just utterly fucked up with no emotion, no empathy.

Just don't let people who take those kinds of drugs have guns. That

unsung said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Ccw holders usually stop crimes from becoming mass killings so I can't tell you because I don't have a crystal ball.

As far as the background checks they did work, his therapist then called the police in a panic saying he was a threat and they visited him. But they did nothing.

Yup, the cops fucked up big time. Hopefully this event will change their procedures when responding to calls like this. I.e. do a through search of the person's residence and not take them at their word when questioned.

...
You are treading on very dangerous ground here.
That means I can call the police on you and claim to be your father and tell them that you pose a threat to yourself and others.
The police can then, go to your door and see if you are okay or not. If you say you are okay, they could still enter your home and conduct a search of the premises without a bench issued search warrant.
That is a pretty scary proposition.
...
See the timeline I posted. They had 10 minutes between the time the e-mails were sent, received and read by the therapist, who contacted the mother, who contacted the father... then, called 9-1-1.
That is asking alot of local law enforcement.

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

We don't just hand out guns to anyone, he lived in California which is a anti-gunners dream.

He passed the background checks that everyone here screams for.

California's anti-gun laws also kept these victims defenseless as there are only 52 concealed carry permit holders in that county. This murderers previous statements indicated that he was avoiding attacking certain places based on whether someone legally carrying could stop him.

...
Doesn't that all goes to show that the background checks are not adequate?
...
Also... when was the last time a person with a concealed carry permit stopped a mass killing? Because I can't seem to recall one.

Exactly...

And when someone starts firing at you when you don't expect it a gun does you little good...

Reasonable people don't want to ban guns (except for assault weapons which have absolutely no place in society) they want to make purchasing guns as difficult as possible for the people that intend on misusing them.

...
The thing I don't understand... how is putting more bullets in the air... coming from different directions... with terrified people running in several directions... make us safer?
And how do we know who is the initial shooter, if there are a bunch of people shooting? Wouldn't it add to the confusion?
...
I mean, let's say I have a concealed weapon and a leagal permit to carry it. I see the initial shots and can correctly identify the shooter. I draw my weapon an fire in his direction.
Meanwhile... Mr. Gunrights, who also has a legal permit to carry a weapon, hears the shots (from both guns) and runs towards them hoping to stop the shooting. He rounds the corner and sees my... and put 3 rounds into me.
How to you tell who is the bad guy with a gun... from the good guy with a gun?

Exactly....and situations like that will happen.

Please post said extensive list where this situation has occurred. Every state has some form of concealed carry. Please show me the facts that concealed carry holders have accidentally shot bystanders.

I'm guessing you have a much greater chance at being shot by a cop.

Who said there was an extensive list? We are envisioning a scenario that is very likely to play out given the wild wild west culture the gun nuts are cultivating.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/29/florida-6-year-old-kills-grandfather-with-ak-47-left-unattended-by-boys-uncle-at-family-picnic/

Here is a good example of this culture...moron leaves assault rifle at family picnic

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/29/nevada-man-claims-stand-your-ground-after-shooting-couple-sleeping-at-his-vacant-property/

Moron kills sleeping man and almost kills woman (yes they were trespassing....perhaps a call to the police could have occurred?)

http://fox59.com/2014/05/27/woman-shot-after-gun-goes-off-inside-indiana-walmart-store/

Moron drops loaded weapon in Walmart...shoots woman who was pushing son in cart...what if that bullet had hit the boy in the head?

This is the gun culture in the USA

'Moron'

A beautiful word. So accurately describes so many people in one fluid word that just rolls off the tongue.

Different stress and accentuations make the term even more effective: in particular... I like really emphasizing the 'm' as you utter the word. It builds for a nice release and when the term is finally expressed following through... the result is a description that seems impossible to deny.

As in, "What a mmmmmoron!"

Try it some time. The emphasis takes away the need to throw foul language as an adjective to most accurately describe the level of moron one is relating.

Instead of, "What a fucking moron!" A person can say, "What a mmmmmoron!" and the effect is the same for accurately detailing the degree of said moron.

Gern Blansten

JonnyPistachio

Gern Blansten said:

This is the gun culture in the USA

The only thing I ever have to add to these threads is that I think that (sadly), its too late. The gun culture in the USA is just going to get worse. I believe this because I think we really are getting desensitized to these mass shootings, and many of us who want better laws or more accurate registration, or better physiological evaluations are learning that this might never happen. So some folks like me, who are concerned about how to defend against the possibility of mass shooting are just going to go get guns themselves, and join the spiraling out of control gun culture of the US. (i'm still not getting a gun though, but the point is, that many like me, are).