Elliot Rodger - California killing spree - all the issues

mickeyrat

so SHE didnt kill her husband THEN kill herself?

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-cops-three-others-killed-las-vegas-shooting-spree-n125766

"A shopper, Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, of Las Vegas had a concealed weapon and decided to confront Jerad Miller, police said. As he walked toward the suspect, Amanda Miller came up behind him and shot him several times in the ribs, police said."

Perfect example of a false sense of security. If he would have done what they said he would still be alive.

Police are calling that man a hero...

"He had no idea the wife was walking behind him,” the police official said of the murdered man. “This guy (Wilcox) was not some idiot with a gun. To me, he was a hero. He was trying to stop an active shooter.”


http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/shooters-carried-arsenal-supplies-sunday-rampage

Hats off to him for trying....but that's not the point

He was killed because he had a weapon and he tried to take the law into his own hands. Would I have done the same? Maybe....but the point is that he is dead because he tried to do a job that wasn't his.

Like all of the others that survived in Wal-Mart the smart play would have been to do what the psychos said and not "confront" the shooter.

Gern Blansten

From the USAToday article...

"Across the parking lot from the Walmart, Jerad and Amanda Miller shot and killed two Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Officers inside a pizzeria at about 11:22 a.m. Sunday, Assistant Sheriff Kevin McMahill said at a press conference.

The couple then walked across the parking lot and into the Walmart. Jerad Miller fired one shot into the air and ordered everyone to leave, warning "this is a revolution" and police were on their way, McMahill said."

They clearly were wanting to set a trap to kill more police....not citizens.

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

So you want me to register like a sex offender would?

Nope. I want you to license your gun like automobile owners license their cars.

Don't do anything stupid with it and everything will be okay.

Driving a car is a privilege, owning a firearm is a right.

There is a difference. Don't use the car logic when you are one of those that don't want it used when stats show that more people die in autos than are killed by guns.

You can't have it both ways.

Actually it's a privilege as well. We don't hand out rifles with social security cards.

unsung

You are incorrect.

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

You are incorrect.

I realize it is covered in the 2nd amendment...that's why you are saying it's a "right". Of course there isn't an amendment stating that we can also each own a vehicle....but it's understood. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.

hedonist

I was just thinking about the police officers who were shot.

They were armed, and it did nothing to save their lives.

I also have conflicting feelings on this...in terms of when to step in.

The "it takes a village" mindset.

See a child being abused, or an attempted abduction - if we're able and if we have the gumption, we'd do our best to prevent, to protect.

This is on another level for sure, but not so different.

Gern Blansten

hedonist said:

I was just thinking about the police officers who were shot.

They were armed, and it did nothing to save their lives.

I also have conflicting feelings on this...in terms of when to step in.

The "it takes a village" mindset.

See a child being abused, or an attempted abduction - if we're able and if we have the gumption, we'd do our best to prevent, to protect.

This is on another level for sure, but not so different.

It was an ambush on the police in the restaurant for sure.

My problem with open carry is that you can't differentiate between threats and non-threats when someone is walking up to a building with an assault rifle. It's just an idiotic thing to do.

callen

unsung said:

dignin said:

unsung said:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/09/wilcox-vegas-shooting-hate/10261163/

'Heroic' action to try and stop Vegas killers

This good guy with a gun actually did stop the bad guys with guns long enough for police to close in. He saved lives while giving his own.

Trying to figure out how he saved any lives from the article posted. Pretty big leap you are making there to fit you beliefs.

Sounds like he needlessly got himself killed because he thought he would be a hero because he had a gun.

Fit my beliefs? I live in Illinois, I wouldn't have known about the story of the police weren't calling him a hero. Sounds to me like he was enough of a distraction, or at least enough of a delay that allowed the police to arrive quickly enough to stop a rampage by two possible meth-heads. He could have had a garden rake and people here would be calling him a hero, instead it doesn't fit their agenda because the police credited a concealed carry holder which in turn discredits that anti-gunner theory.

He would likely be alive if he didn't have the gun. The couple didn't kill anyone else after him. So seems that this is great example of guns in civilian hands causing more harm than good. Thank goodness he didn't get into full fledged gun battle with these patriots that supported Clive or other civilians could have been shot.

I want the right not to be drawn into a gun battle between civilian and baddies with guns. Why do I not get this right but gun toting amateurs get theirs.

Do you not see how everything is just aligning against your arguments ?

unsung

Twist it however you want to get it to fit your agenda, the police, AND LIBERAL MEDIA are calling him a hero. Your opinion is just that.

Again, please, wake up from your fantasy world where unicorns prance in the fields and people find pots o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

callen

"Told his friend he was going to do something went over to confront and was shot."

Doesn't much matter what people call him. If he would of left his pacifier at home he 'd still be alive. He also put others at risk.

The killers didn't want to kill non cops so didn't try to shoot any one else. Just as robbers want cash not to kill and really have the law after them. Course enter another amateur scared gun toting hick and there will be death.

No civilian has rights to put me in danger with their grand illusions.

Fantasy world? Convenience store less than a mile from my house was robbed two weeks ago. I live in county that executes more people than any other. I live on reality but not fear and know my odds and they get worse when scared paranoid non intelligent humans arm themselves. I in no way say your not intelligent but most gun loving humans I meet aren't too freakin swift.

pjhawks

callen said:

"Told his friend he was going to do something went over to confront and was shot."

Doesn't much matter what people call him. If he would of left his pacifier at home he 'd still be alive. He also put others at risk.

The killers didn't want to kill non cops so didn't try to shoot any one else. Just as robbers want cash not to kill and really have the law after them. Course enter another amateur scared gun toting hick and there will be death.

No civilian has rights to put me in danger with their grand illusions.

agree 100%. this reminds me of a cheesy song i used to love as a kid in the 70s. Anyone remember "Billy Don't Be a Hero"?

Billy Don't be a hero
don't be a fool with your life...

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

Twist it however you want to get it to fit your agenda, the police, AND LIBERAL MEDIA are calling him a hero. Your opinion is just that.

Again, please, wake up from your fantasy world where unicorns prance in the fields and people find pots o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

Is that the same fantasy world where Ron Paul has a snowballs chance in hell of being elected President?

unsung

Gern Blansten said:

unsung said:

Twist it however you want to get it to fit your agenda, the police, AND LIBERAL MEDIA are calling him a hero. Your opinion is just that.

Again, please, wake up from your fantasy world where unicorns prance in the fields and people find pots o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

Is that the same fantasy world where Ron Paul has a snowballs chance in hell of being elected President?

Why don't you stay on topic? Create your Ron Paul hating thread and we can discuss it. That line of thinking is so dangerous. Yeah, I won't vote for someone who shares most of my principles, instead I'll sacrifice my own principles just so I can pick a winner.

Honestly the discussions on here and reasons for justifying my positions continually never cease to amaze me. I'd sooner jamb an ice pick in my ear before I voted for Obama or Romney.

goingtoverona

just wanted to point out that it's easy to pick apart a situation after it's already taken place. for the guy that was carrying concealed and killed, yeah in retrospect, it was a silly thing to do knowing that no other people were gonna be killed. surely at the time the guy thought the shooters were gonna unload on a bunch of innocent people though. gotta give him kudos for putting his life on the line for what he thought was the protection of innocent people.

gimmesometruth27

fdr proposed a new bill of rights.

one of the tenets was "freedom from fear."

when does my freedom to fear gun nuts supercede their rights to own a military grade weapon?

Merkin Baller

unsung said:

Twist it however you want to get it to fit your agenda, the police, AND LIBERAL MEDIA are calling him a hero. Your opinion is just that.

Again, please, wake up from your fantasy world where unicorns prance in the fields and people find pots o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

So is what the police AND LIBERAL MEDIA say gospel to you 100% of the time, or only when it suits your argument?

unsung

Can you dispute the article or do you resort to attacking me when I am correct?

goingtoverona

@gimmie, great question. don't know the answer but gonna say when you're in your own home or private property. people are afraid of different things, i am surrounded by guns where i live and the only thing that instills fear in me is being out on the roads with drunks and shitty drivers.

Merkin Baller

unsung said:

Can you dispute the article or do you resort to attacking me when I am correct?

I'm not going to call someone a hero just because the 'liberal media' or police say he is. Yes you are correct that the article is calling him a hero. That doesn't mean he is. I'll form my own opinions, as I would expect you to also.

Back to my question, do you treat everything the liberal media and police say as gospel, or only when it suits your argument?

gimmesometruth27

i don't consider the guy a hero.

he died.

he lost his life.

he lost everything.

he lost.

i consider him a fool to an extent. i am not dying for anybody.

Gern Blansten

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

unsung said:

Twist it however you want to get it to fit your agenda, the police, AND LIBERAL MEDIA are calling him a hero. Your opinion is just that.

Again, please, wake up from your fantasy world where unicorns prance in the fields and people find pots o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

Is that the same fantasy world where Ron Paul has a snowballs chance in hell of being elected President?

Why don't you stay on topic? Create your Ron Paul hating thread and we can discuss it. That line of thinking is so dangerous. Yeah, I won't vote for someone who shares most of my principles, instead I'll sacrifice my own principles just so I can pick a winner.

Honestly the discussions on here and reasons for justifying my positions continually never cease to amaze me. I'd sooner jamb an ice pick in my ear before I voted for Obama or Romney.

actually you made the topic fantasy worlds....you asked about mine, I asked about yours. I guess we're even.

Gern Blansten

gimmesometruth27 said:

fdr proposed a new bill of rights.

one of the tenets was "freedom from fear."

when does my freedom to fear gun nuts supercede their rights to own a military grade weapon?

I really believe that your argument is what will ultimately prevail. It is really getting to the point where we won't be able to separate good guys from bad guys. The police will be in a strange position....we won't be able to call 911 anymore and say "there is a guy with an assault rifle in the mall parking lot" if everyone is allowed to carry around an assault rifle.

We will figure it out eventually....it is going to take a lot more death unfortunately.

And guess what....all of the right wing gun nuts will still be able to do 99% of what they are allowed to do right now.

chadwick

"It is really getting to the point where we won't be able to separate good guys from bad guys."

nice

like your traditional outlaw-hillbilly pot growers, moonshiners & whatnot
probably some of the best ppl one could ever have as friends


i think i am more worried about the pimple popin little teenager who is on his gaming system 12 hrs a day shooting up the joint on his big screen tv in his bedroom basement with no friends, sunshine or breeze on his skin than the dope smuggler growing his own pot marijuana

i've had a teenager tell me that gaming has taught him more than his mother has. that is some statement

Gern Blansten

chadwick said:

"It is really getting to the point where we won't be able to separate good guys from bad guys."

nice

like your traditional outlaw-hillbilly pot growers, moonshiners & whatnot
probably some of the best ppl one could ever have as friends


i think i am more worried about the pimple popin little teenager who is on his gaming system 12 hrs a day shooting up the joint on his big screen tv in his bedroom basement with no friends, sunshine or breeze on his skin than the dope smuggler growing his own pot marijuana

i've had a teenager tell me that gaming has taught him more than his mother has. that is some statement

Compare Elliot Rodgers (rich, clean cut) to Miller (white trash)....either one is willing to kill you without conscience. I wasn't trying to stereotype....my point was that anyone carrying an assault rifle is suspect in my world. Assault rifles have no purpose except to kill people.

callen

goingtoverona said:

just wanted to point out that it's easy to pick apart a situation after it's already taken place. for the guy that was carrying concealed and killed, yeah in retrospect, it was a silly thing to do knowing that no other people were gonna be killed. surely at the time the guy thought the shooters were gonna unload on a bunch of innocent people though. gotta give him kudos for putting his life on the line for what he thought was the protection of innocent people.

Agree it could have been different. My issue is I don't want the average dude playing cop in more common occurrences of robbery. This is what will happen if more people carry guns. The dude in Walmart paid price for making wrong decision. I don't want him making decision for me while I'm in public and normal crook walks in.

Admit that in certain instance having armed "good guy" could be good but overall not worth the risks.

callen

Gern Blansten said:

unsung said:

Gern Blansten said:

unsung said:

Twist it however you want to get it to fit your agenda, the police, AND LIBERAL MEDIA are calling him a hero. Your opinion is just that.

Again, please, wake up from your fantasy world where unicorns prance in the fields and people find pots o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

Is that the same fantasy world where Ron Paul has a snowballs chance in hell of being elected President?

Why don't you stay on topic? Create your Ron Paul hating thread and we can discuss it. That line of thinking is so dangerous. Yeah, I won't vote for someone who shares most of my principles, instead I'll sacrifice my own principles just so I can pick a winner.

Honestly the discussions on here and reasons for justifying my positions continually never cease to amaze me. I'd sooner jamb an ice pick in my ear before I voted for Obama or Romney.

actually you made the topic fantasy worlds....you asked about mine, I asked about yours. I guess we're even.

Ah excuse me.

Unsungs "fantasy world" was directed at me. I have one insult to give and unsung has one credit towards you.
>:)

unsung

I wouldn't consider them insults. I just don't understand the fear of a device. You know what Freud said about that, don't you?

callen

unsung said:

I wouldn't consider them insults. I just don't understand the fear of a device. You know what Freud said about that, don't you?

Just having fun.

As to guns themselves, love the mechanics and craftsmanship. They are incredible tools.

rssesq

The rothschilds want your guns America. Almost as bad as they wanted the E.U.