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  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    edited April 2019
    brianlux said:
    oftenreading said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    The polar bears are fine: Certain populations coping with a warming Arctic better than expected

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-vanishing-sea-ice-canadas-polar-bears-appear-to-be-hanging-on-in-the-arctic-study-says




    Thanks for posting this article that agrees with my position, as above.

    As per the quotes from the article:

    To be sure, polar bear biologists remain convinced that the forecast for the world’s polar bears remains grim.

    “The underlying concept is pretty simple. Bears need sea ice as a platform from which to hunt seals,” wrote biologist Ian Stirling in an email to the National Post.


    Overlying all of this is that a polar bear is a notoriously difficult animal to count. Polar bears are loners who range across hundreds of kilometers of Arctic — sometimes in a single day.

    Meanwhile, changing conditions have dramatically shifted the species’ migration patterns. Bears no longer go to the same places that they did in the 1990s, which makes it hard to do accurate region-by-region comparisons

    First Nations elders perspective:

    Two years ago, a Northwest Territories report set out to ask Inuvialuit (Western Canadian Inuit) their view of polar bear populations. Some elders reporting no change to polar bear numbers, while others spoke of regions eerily cleared of the animals.

    “I hate to say that, but maybe there’s less bears,” said one in the Victoria Island hamlet of Ulukhaktok.

    Although Baffin Bay numbers seem to be remaining stable, the latest report does find that their body condition appears to be deteriorating.

    “The problem is, we could go along for some time thinking everything’s fine, and then populations fall off a cliff,” said Clark




    I'm not seeing how this confirms your having the same opinion as Meltdown.  He seems to think polar bears are doing just fine and yet your quotes seem to emphasize more the opposite. Can you clarify?

    Also, how big a factor are polar bears in the big picture?  If we are to use a single type of animal as a barometer for environmental balance and health I would think birds are a better indicator.  They are more widespread and the migrate over much greater instances than any other animal.  And if we look to birds as a barometer for environmental health we will probably not find them to be a very good sign that way.
    Brian, I was pointing out that the article actually supports my argument that polar bears are NOT doing just fine, as I posted about a coupe of days ago (sorry if I wasn’t clear on that). The fact that not all populations are in immediate peril does not at all mean that they are doing “fine” or that we don’t need to worry. So my point was that the article was being misrepresented. 
     
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    As to your second point, we often use the large predators as a barometer of the health of an ecosystem, as the whole system to some extent feeds in to that top predator; that is, if the top predator is doing dandy, then its prey is generally doing well, too, as are the grasslands or forests or oceans or whatever sustains the prey. Certainly one can use another barometer, though. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,665
    oftenreading said:
    brianlux said:
    oftenreading said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    The polar bears are fine: Certain populations coping with a warming Arctic better than expected

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-vanishing-sea-ice-canadas-polar-bears-appear-to-be-hanging-on-in-the-arctic-study-says




    Thanks for posting this article that agrees with my position, as above.

    As per the quotes from the article:

    To be sure, polar bear biologists remain convinced that the forecast for the world’s polar bears remains grim.

    “The underlying concept is pretty simple. Bears need sea ice as a platform from which to hunt seals,” wrote biologist Ian Stirling in an email to the National Post.


    Overlying all of this is that a polar bear is a notoriously difficult animal to count. Polar bears are loners who range across hundreds of kilometers of Arctic — sometimes in a single day.

    Meanwhile, changing conditions have dramatically shifted the species’ migration patterns. Bears no longer go to the same places that they did in the 1990s, which makes it hard to do accurate region-by-region comparisons

    First Nations elders perspective:

    Two years ago, a Northwest Territories report set out to ask Inuvialuit (Western Canadian Inuit) their view of polar bear populations. Some elders reporting no change to polar bear numbers, while others spoke of regions eerily cleared of the animals.

    “I hate to say that, but maybe there’s less bears,” said one in the Victoria Island hamlet of Ulukhaktok.

    Although Baffin Bay numbers seem to be remaining stable, the latest report does find that their body condition appears to be deteriorating.

    “The problem is, we could go along for some time thinking everything’s fine, and then populations fall off a cliff,” said Clark




    I'm not seeing how this confirms your having the same opinion as Meltdown.  He seems to think polar bears are doing just fine and yet your quotes seem to emphasize more the opposite. Can you clarify?

    Also, how big a factor are polar bears in the big picture?  If we are to use a single type of animal as a barometer for environmental balance and health I would think birds are a better indicator.  They are more widespread and the migrate over much greater instances than any other animal.  And if we look to birds as a barometer for environmental health we will probably not find them to be a very good sign that way.
    Brian, I was pointing out that the article actually supports my argument that polar bears are NOT doing just fine, as I posted about a coupe of days ago (sorry if I wasn’t clear on that). The fact that not all populations are in immediate peril does not at all mean that they are doing “fine” or that we don’t need to worry. So my point was that the article was being misrepresented. 
     
    Ah, I see, yes, thank you.
    oftenreading said:
    As to your second point, we often use the large predators as a barometer of the health of an ecosystem, as the whole system to some extent feeds in to that top predator; that is, if the top predator is doing dandy, then its prey is generally doing well, too, as are the grasslands or forests or oceans or whatever sustains the prey. Certainly one can use another barometer, though. 
    That makes sense, thanks.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Another young guy passed out and waking up with a new piercing .... :lol:

    https://apple.news/Aocqnuxg4Thic0NZIdM6ycg

    Young cougar found in Victoria was shot with a tranquilizer dart, ear tagged, and will be relocated out of the city. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Hundreds of US cities are killing or scaling back their recycling programs
    https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/3/18/18271470/us-cities-stop-recycling-china-ban-on-recycles

    The governments have known for decades that our garbage was a problem.  Instead of dealing with it themselves they shipped it overseas...now that no one wants Canada's and the US garbage they have no clue what to with it...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    'Canada is in the wrong': Environmentalists urge the country to clear out its trash from the Philippines

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-april-25-2019-1.5110297/canada-is-in-the-wrong-environmentalists-urge-the-country-to-clear-out-its-trash-from-the-philippines-1.5110324

    At an event in Montreal Wednesday, Environment and Climate Change Minister Catherine McKenna said Canada is "working very hard to address the issue of the garbage. I think that there is a solution that can be found in the coming weeks."

    Maybe instead of picking fights with provinces over a useless carbon tax...maybe she can do her job an address the issue of what to do with this garbage and working with THE provinces (not against) on how to get recycling numbers up...I do not expect that to happen...Carbon taxes are for the lazy.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,722
    So recycling is now partly delusion, apparently. Very disappointing.


    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,609
    PJ_Soul said:
    So recycling is now partly delusion, apparently. Very disappointing.


    a guy i work with was a garbage man years ago. he told me about 5 years ago that 90% of recycling ends up in landfills. i still do it, in the off chance he was wrong/sensationalizing/things had changed, but i guess not. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,665
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So recycling is now partly delusion, apparently. Very disappointing.


    a guy i work with was a garbage man years ago. he told me about 5 years ago that 90% of recycling ends up in landfills. i still do it, in the off chance he was wrong/sensationalizing/things had changed, but i guess not. 
    Yeah, same here- out of general principle and hopes that some gets reused. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,609
    been watching Our Planet on Netflix. beautifully shot, and always love a good Attenborough narration, but it seems so overtly political in its drive to shove climate change down your throat. it comes off as less a documentary and more propaganda than anything else. 

    especially with the controversies over the BBC using of footage in zoos instead of actual polar bear dens and the possibility that the walrus suicides isn't actually a result of the disappearance of the sea ice. it makes it hard to believe what you are actually watching. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    So the government is in charge of our recycling programs and have been for decades and these lame ass results are acceptable.  If we can not figure out how to properly dispose of our rubbish, then they will cover figure a way to reduce carbon in time.  

    I just watched a CBC program on plastics...The Canadian Federal Government, Ontario and Alberta subsidize the plastic industry.

    Oh, but that carbon tax will fix things...like put more financial pressure on folks just getting by now.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Heard a great one today "this planet needs a reboot button"...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,665

    Meltdown99 said:
    Heard a great one today "this planet needs a reboot button"...
    This:



    or this?

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,665
    my2hands said:

    Gnarly!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,712
    edited May 2019
    https://twitter.com/rwpusa/status/1124655864508506113?s=21
    Yeah if we leave it up to this wonderful 1st family I’m sure our planet is in good hands , they are a disgraceful disgusting vile family all of them! I’m disgusted by this Chilean billionaire too ..
    Post edited by josevolution on
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,665
    Meltdown99 said:
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
    Probably because untreated tap water is risky and they can't afford a good built-in water filtration system.  But still, what they could do (this is what we do) in most places is use refillable glass or BPA free non-toxic refillable one, two or five gallon water dispensers, get them re-filled at a place that dispenses good filtered water, and if they want water to go, carry a stainless steel water bottle.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
    Probably because untreated tap water is risky and they can't afford a good built-in water filtration system.  But still, what they could do (this is what we do) in most places is use refillable glass or BPA free non-toxic refillable one, two or five gallon water dispensers, get them re-filled at a place that dispenses good filtered water, and if they want water to go, carry a stainless steel water bottle.
    Where are you living in the US that has untreated tap water?  Nowhere near me has untreated tap water.  Now some 1st nation reserves do not have drinkable water, those problems are solvable if our government actually spent the money to get it done...

    And Nestle should be boycotted completely....

    And you are right, get re-usable bottles. 

    There is no need for most Western societies to need bottled water...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,665
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
    Probably because untreated tap water is risky and they can't afford a good built-in water filtration system.  But still, what they could do (this is what we do) in most places is use refillable glass or BPA free non-toxic refillable one, two or five gallon water dispensers, get them re-filled at a place that dispenses good filtered water, and if they want water to go, carry a stainless steel water bottle.
    Where are you living in the US that has untreated tap water?  Nowhere near me has untreated tap water.  Now some 1st nation reserves do not have drinkable water, those problems are solvable if our government actually spent the money to get it done...

    And Nestle should be boycotted completely....

    And you are right, get re-usable bottles. 

    There is no need for most Western societies to need bottled water...
    Outside city limits- county.  We're on a well.  We have super hard water that corrodes the plumbing so had a water softener installed.  That water is potable but not good for the kidneys, so we get our water at Kinetico which has good, filtered water for drinking. 

    We work in the the city of Placerville which does have treated water but I don't trust "treated" water.  How is it treated?  How well is it filtered?  What kind of pipes does it run through?  Is there fluoride in the water?  No way do I take chances like that!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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