Every day is Earth Day. Let's talk about ways to make it better.

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    You live in California.  If they use the same info you use to fight climate change...maybe they should try a different approach...The last time I was in California it was so smog filled, full of congestion and the trees look like they haven't been watered in years...pretty depressing if you ask me.  How come your cap n trade program has fixed the problem?
    Yes, I've lived in California since 1951 with a few moves away here and there.  Yes, the place has gone to shit.  Yes, it's depressing.  Excuse, I must go and jump off the Golden Gate Bridge.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,114
    Some polar bear sub-populations appear to be in danger, while others are doing okay. If the sea ice continues to melt, it will definitely have effects on polar bears, since any population that loses its habitat is of course negatively affected.

    Some First Nations are indeed seeing more bears in their territories. That doesn't necessarily mean that there are more bears overall. Bears, like almost all animals, will move when they have to, if they lose their own habitat or if it becomes inhospitable. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    edited April 26
    Some polar bear sub-populations appear to be in danger, while others are doing okay. If the sea ice continues to melt, it will definitely have effects on polar bears, since any population that loses its habitat is of course negatively affected.

    Some First Nations are indeed seeing more bears in their territories. That doesn't necessarily mean that there are more bears overall. Bears, like almost all animals, will move when they have to, if they lose their own habitat or if it becomes inhospitable. 
    Not meaning to put a negative spin on this but my first thought is "it will".

    EDIT:  I myself am bothered by how negative this ^^^ sounds.  From all I've read, I'm fairly certain sea ice will continue to melt no matter what we do.  But that doesn't mean I think we should throw in the towel.  The sooner and greater we reduce carbon, the slower the warming.  It only makes sense to try unless our goal is to make earth uninhabitable for humans.  The positive spin is that the planet will survive either way.
    Post edited by brianlux on
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,114
    brianlux said:
    Some polar bear sub-populations appear to be in danger, while others are doing okay. If the sea ice continues to melt, it will definitely have effects on polar bears, since any population that loses its habitat is of course negatively affected.

    Some First Nations are indeed seeing more bears in their territories. That doesn't necessarily mean that there are more bears overall. Bears, like almost all animals, will move when they have to, if they lose their own habitat or if it becomes inhospitable. 
    Not meaning to put a negative spin on this but my first thought is "it will".

    EDIT:  I myself am bothered by how negative this ^^^ sounds.  From all I've read, I'm fairly certain sea ice will continue to melt no matter what we do.  But that doesn't mean I think we should throw in the towel.  The sooner and greater we reduce carbon, the slower the warming.  It only makes sense to try unless our goal is to make earth uninhabitable for humans.  The positive spin is that the planet will survive either way.

    Yes, I think you're right. In fact, as I was typing it I was thinking about the wording of "if" versus "when". 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    You live in California.  If they use the same info you use to fight climate change...maybe they should try a different approach...The last time I was in California it was so smog filled, full of congestion and the trees look like they haven't been watered in years...pretty depressing if you ask me.  How come your cap n trade program has fixed the problem?
    if I am reading this correctly (and if I'm not, let me know) you are saying that Brian's approach to climate change is wrong?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    brianlux said:
    I don't get my environmental news from places like Netflix any more than I get political news from Facebook, so I don't know or care if they are lying.  The article you posted implies polar bears are no longer endangered... so guess  who is lying?
    I do not really care where you get your info from.  It was just an article...maybe chill a little.  

    Plenty of people including 1st nations people who live in the polar bear habitat say the bears are fine...I will believe them over any with European blood...
    I suppose the first nations people are the ones researching, tracking, and detailing the habits and lives and populations of these bears. 

    okee dokee. 
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,747
    The polar bears are fine: Certain populations coping with a warming Arctic better than expected

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-vanishing-sea-ice-canadas-polar-bears-appear-to-be-hanging-on-in-the-arctic-study-says



  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    We're all just hangin' on.



    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,114
    The polar bears are fine: Certain populations coping with a warming Arctic better than expected

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-vanishing-sea-ice-canadas-polar-bears-appear-to-be-hanging-on-in-the-arctic-study-says




    Thanks for posting this article that agrees with my position, as above.

    As per the quotes from the article:

    To be sure, polar bear biologists remain convinced that the forecast for the world’s polar bears remains grim.

    The underlying concept is pretty simple. Bears need sea ice as a platform from which to hunt seals,” wrote biologist Ian Stirling in an email to the National Post.


    Overlying all of this is that a polar bear is a notoriously difficult animal to count. Polar bears are loners who range across hundreds of kilometers of Arctic — sometimes in a single day.

    Meanwhile, changing conditions have dramatically shifted the species’ migration patterns. Bears no longer go to the same places that they did in the 1990s, which makes it hard to do accurate region-by-region comparisons

    First Nations elders perspective:

    Two years ago, a Northwest Territories report set out to ask Inuvialuit (Western Canadian Inuit) their view of polar bear populations. Some elders reporting no change to polar bear numbers, while others spoke of regions eerily cleared of the animals.

    “I hate to say that, but maybe there’s less bears,” said one in the Victoria Island hamlet of Ulukhaktok.

    Although Baffin Bay numbers seem to be remaining stable, the latest report does find that their body condition appears to be deteriorating.

    “The problem is, we could go along for some time thinking everything’s fine, and then populations fall off a cliff,” said Clark




    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    The polar bears are fine: Certain populations coping with a warming Arctic better than expected

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-vanishing-sea-ice-canadas-polar-bears-appear-to-be-hanging-on-in-the-arctic-study-says




    Thanks for posting this article that agrees with my position, as above.

    As per the quotes from the article:

    To be sure, polar bear biologists remain convinced that the forecast for the world’s polar bears remains grim.

    The underlying concept is pretty simple. Bears need sea ice as a platform from which to hunt seals,” wrote biologist Ian Stirling in an email to the National Post.


    Overlying all of this is that a polar bear is a notoriously difficult animal to count. Polar bears are loners who range across hundreds of kilometers of Arctic — sometimes in a single day.

    Meanwhile, changing conditions have dramatically shifted the species’ migration patterns. Bears no longer go to the same places that they did in the 1990s, which makes it hard to do accurate region-by-region comparisons

    First Nations elders perspective:

    Two years ago, a Northwest Territories report set out to ask Inuvialuit (Western Canadian Inuit) their view of polar bear populations. Some elders reporting no change to polar bear numbers, while others spoke of regions eerily cleared of the animals.

    “I hate to say that, but maybe there’s less bears,” said one in the Victoria Island hamlet of Ulukhaktok.

    Although Baffin Bay numbers seem to be remaining stable, the latest report does find that their body condition appears to be deteriorating.

    “The problem is, we could go along for some time thinking everything’s fine, and then populations fall off a cliff,” said Clark




    I'm not seeing how this confirms your having the same opinion as Meltdown.  He seems to think polar bears are doing just fine and yet your quotes seem to emphasize more the opposite. Can you clarify?

    Also, how big a factor are polar bears in the big picture?  If we are to use a single type of animal as a barometer for environmental balance and health I would think birds are a better indicator.  They are more widespread and the migrate over much greater instances than any other animal.  And if we look to birds as a barometer for environmental health we will probably not find them to be a very good sign that way.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,114
    edited April 27
    brianlux said:
    The polar bears are fine: Certain populations coping with a warming Arctic better than expected

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-vanishing-sea-ice-canadas-polar-bears-appear-to-be-hanging-on-in-the-arctic-study-says




    Thanks for posting this article that agrees with my position, as above.

    As per the quotes from the article:

    To be sure, polar bear biologists remain convinced that the forecast for the world’s polar bears remains grim.

    The underlying concept is pretty simple. Bears need sea ice as a platform from which to hunt seals,” wrote biologist Ian Stirling in an email to the National Post.


    Overlying all of this is that a polar bear is a notoriously difficult animal to count. Polar bears are loners who range across hundreds of kilometers of Arctic — sometimes in a single day.

    Meanwhile, changing conditions have dramatically shifted the species’ migration patterns. Bears no longer go to the same places that they did in the 1990s, which makes it hard to do accurate region-by-region comparisons

    First Nations elders perspective:

    Two years ago, a Northwest Territories report set out to ask Inuvialuit (Western Canadian Inuit) their view of polar bear populations. Some elders reporting no change to polar bear numbers, while others spoke of regions eerily cleared of the animals.

    “I hate to say that, but maybe there’s less bears,” said one in the Victoria Island hamlet of Ulukhaktok.

    Although Baffin Bay numbers seem to be remaining stable, the latest report does find that their body condition appears to be deteriorating.

    “The problem is, we could go along for some time thinking everything’s fine, and then populations fall off a cliff,” said Clark




    I'm not seeing how this confirms your having the same opinion as Meltdown.  He seems to think polar bears are doing just fine and yet your quotes seem to emphasize more the opposite. Can you clarify?

    Also, how big a factor are polar bears in the big picture?  If we are to use a single type of animal as a barometer for environmental balance and health I would think birds are a better indicator.  They are more widespread and the migrate over much greater instances than any other animal.  And if we look to birds as a barometer for environmental health we will probably not find them to be a very good sign that way.
    Brian, I was pointing out that the article actually supports my argument that polar bears are NOT doing just fine, as I posted about a coupe of days ago (sorry if I wasn’t clear on that). The fact that not all populations are in immediate peril does not at all mean that they are doing “fine” or that we don’t need to worry. So my point was that the article was being misrepresented. 
     
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,114
    As to your second point, we often use the large predators as a barometer of the health of an ecosystem, as the whole system to some extent feeds in to that top predator; that is, if the top predator is doing dandy, then its prey is generally doing well, too, as are the grasslands or forests or oceans or whatever sustains the prey. Certainly one can use another barometer, though. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    brianlux said:
    The polar bears are fine: Certain populations coping with a warming Arctic better than expected

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-vanishing-sea-ice-canadas-polar-bears-appear-to-be-hanging-on-in-the-arctic-study-says




    Thanks for posting this article that agrees with my position, as above.

    As per the quotes from the article:

    To be sure, polar bear biologists remain convinced that the forecast for the world’s polar bears remains grim.

    The underlying concept is pretty simple. Bears need sea ice as a platform from which to hunt seals,” wrote biologist Ian Stirling in an email to the National Post.


    Overlying all of this is that a polar bear is a notoriously difficult animal to count. Polar bears are loners who range across hundreds of kilometers of Arctic — sometimes in a single day.

    Meanwhile, changing conditions have dramatically shifted the species’ migration patterns. Bears no longer go to the same places that they did in the 1990s, which makes it hard to do accurate region-by-region comparisons

    First Nations elders perspective:

    Two years ago, a Northwest Territories report set out to ask Inuvialuit (Western Canadian Inuit) their view of polar bear populations. Some elders reporting no change to polar bear numbers, while others spoke of regions eerily cleared of the animals.

    “I hate to say that, but maybe there’s less bears,” said one in the Victoria Island hamlet of Ulukhaktok.

    Although Baffin Bay numbers seem to be remaining stable, the latest report does find that their body condition appears to be deteriorating.

    “The problem is, we could go along for some time thinking everything’s fine, and then populations fall off a cliff,” said Clark




    I'm not seeing how this confirms your having the same opinion as Meltdown.  He seems to think polar bears are doing just fine and yet your quotes seem to emphasize more the opposite. Can you clarify?

    Also, how big a factor are polar bears in the big picture?  If we are to use a single type of animal as a barometer for environmental balance and health I would think birds are a better indicator.  They are more widespread and the migrate over much greater instances than any other animal.  And if we look to birds as a barometer for environmental health we will probably not find them to be a very good sign that way.
    Brian, I was pointing out that the article actually supports my argument that polar bears are NOT doing just fine, as I posted about a coupe of days ago (sorry if I wasn’t clear on that). The fact that not all populations are in immediate peril does not at all mean that they are doing “fine” or that we don’t need to worry. So my point was that the article was being misrepresented. 
     
    Ah, I see, yes, thank you.
    As to your second point, we often use the large predators as a barometer of the health of an ecosystem, as the whole system to some extent feeds in to that top predator; that is, if the top predator is doing dandy, then its prey is generally doing well, too, as are the grasslands or forests or oceans or whatever sustains the prey. Certainly one can use another barometer, though. 
    That makes sense, thanks.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,114
    Another young guy passed out and waking up with a new piercing .... :lol:

    https://apple.news/Aocqnuxg4Thic0NZIdM6ycg

    Young cougar found in Victoria was shot with a tranquilizer dart, ear tagged, and will be relocated out of the city. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,747
    Hundreds of US cities are killing or scaling back their recycling programs
    https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/3/18/18271470/us-cities-stop-recycling-china-ban-on-recycles

    The governments have known for decades that our garbage was a problem.  Instead of dealing with it themselves they shipped it overseas...now that no one wants Canada's and the US garbage they have no clue what to with it...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,747
    'Canada is in the wrong': Environmentalists urge the country to clear out its trash from the Philippines

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-april-25-2019-1.5110297/canada-is-in-the-wrong-environmentalists-urge-the-country-to-clear-out-its-trash-from-the-philippines-1.5110324

    At an event in Montreal Wednesday, Environment and Climate Change Minister Catherine McKenna said Canada is "working very hard to address the issue of the garbage. I think that there is a solution that can be found in the coming weeks."

    Maybe instead of picking fights with provinces over a useless carbon tax...maybe she can do her job an address the issue of what to do with this garbage and working with THE provinces (not against) on how to get recycling numbers up...I do not expect that to happen...Carbon taxes are for the lazy.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,476
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    PJ_Soul said:
    a guy i work with was a garbage man years ago. he told me about 5 years ago that 90% of recycling ends up in landfills. i still do it, in the off chance he was wrong/sensationalizing/things had changed, but i guess not. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    PJ_Soul said:
    a guy i work with was a garbage man years ago. he told me about 5 years ago that 90% of recycling ends up in landfills. i still do it, in the off chance he was wrong/sensationalizing/things had changed, but i guess not. 
    Yeah, same here- out of general principle and hopes that some gets reused. 
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,124
    been watching Our Planet on Netflix. beautifully shot, and always love a good Attenborough narration, but it seems so overtly political in its drive to shove climate change down your throat. it comes off as less a documentary and more propaganda than anything else. 

    especially with the controversies over the BBC using of footage in zoos instead of actual polar bear dens and the possibility that the walrus suicides isn't actually a result of the disappearance of the sea ice. it makes it hard to believe what you are actually watching. 
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,747
    So the government is in charge of our recycling programs and have been for decades and these lame ass results are acceptable.  If we can not figure out how to properly dispose of our rubbish, then they will cover figure a way to reduce carbon in time.  

    I just watched a CBC program on plastics...The Canadian Federal Government, Ontario and Alberta subsidize the plastic industry.

    Oh, but that carbon tax will fix things...like put more financial pressure on folks just getting by now.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,747
    Heard a great one today "this planet needs a reboot button"...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648

    Heard a great one today "this planet needs a reboot button"...
    This:



    or this?

    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    my2hands said:

    Gnarly!
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,374
    edited May 4
    https://twitter.com/rwpusa/status/1124655864508506113?s=21
    Yeah if we leave it up to this wonderful 1st family I’m sure our planet is in good hands , they are a disgraceful disgusting vile family all of them! I’m disgusted by this Chilean billionaire too ..
    Post edited by josevolution on
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,747
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
    Probably because untreated tap water is risky and they can't afford a good built-in water filtration system.  But still, what they could do (this is what we do) in most places is use refillable glass or BPA free non-toxic refillable one, two or five gallon water dispensers, get them re-filled at a place that dispenses good filtered water, and if they want water to go, carry a stainless steel water bottle.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,747
    brianlux said:
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
    Probably because untreated tap water is risky and they can't afford a good built-in water filtration system.  But still, what they could do (this is what we do) in most places is use refillable glass or BPA free non-toxic refillable one, two or five gallon water dispensers, get them re-filled at a place that dispenses good filtered water, and if they want water to go, carry a stainless steel water bottle.
    Where are you living in the US that has untreated tap water?  Nowhere near me has untreated tap water.  Now some 1st nation reserves do not have drinkable water, those problems are solvable if our government actually spent the money to get it done...

    And Nestle should be boycotted completely....

    And you are right, get re-usable bottles. 

    There is no need for most Western societies to need bottled water...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 27,648
    brianlux said:
    Sometimes when I have my dog out and it is recycling day...I peer into the recycling containers...I would say 80% of what's in most people's blue bins are water bottles...why are people still buying bottled water?  
    Probably because untreated tap water is risky and they can't afford a good built-in water filtration system.  But still, what they could do (this is what we do) in most places is use refillable glass or BPA free non-toxic refillable one, two or five gallon water dispensers, get them re-filled at a place that dispenses good filtered water, and if they want water to go, carry a stainless steel water bottle.
    Where are you living in the US that has untreated tap water?  Nowhere near me has untreated tap water.  Now some 1st nation reserves do not have drinkable water, those problems are solvable if our government actually spent the money to get it done...

    And Nestle should be boycotted completely....

    And you are right, get re-usable bottles. 

    There is no need for most Western societies to need bottled water...
    Outside city limits- county.  We're on a well.  We have super hard water that corrodes the plumbing so had a water softener installed.  That water is potable but not good for the kidneys, so we get our water at Kinetico which has good, filtered water for drinking. 

    We work in the the city of Placerville which does have treated water but I don't trust "treated" water.  How is it treated?  How well is it filtered?  What kind of pipes does it run through?  Is there fluoride in the water?  No way do I take chances like that!
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







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