20 Years Kurt

Pernille

facepollution said:

FrankY59 said:

I don't think you understand what clinical depression is. He obviously lived a life that 99.9% of people have never lived, so none of our opinions count. This country does a poor job in not only treating but recognizing mental illnesses. No one should doubt he loved his family which shows the toll untreated depression can take. Call it a cop out all you want but it's a recurring theme in depressed people but he just happened to be a celebrity which still doesn't change his disease.

It's good to know some people have some sense around here, and some compassion......

What they said. I'm amazed of the number of people on this board with a "just pull yourself together" attitude. Are you for real? You must really lack basic knowledge about mental illness and drug addiction. Or maybe just a heart. Besides, since when did we start judging artists on their personal lives and struggles and instead of their work? We have no idea what Kurt went through so who are we to judge?

I was and am a huge fan of Nirvana. They certainly changed the way I listened to music completely and helped me discover so many great bands and artists I would never have heard of if not for them. To this day I still remember the first time I heard Smells Like Teen Spirit. I think Nirvana changed me the same way they changed so many other young people and their perception of music back then. They definitely revolutionised rock n' roll. I certainly do not believe they were on a decline in 1993-1994 with In Utero, which in my opinion was their best album by far. One can only imagine what might have happened had Kurt lived. Somehow I have a hard time believing they would have stuck around as a band for a long time, but we would definitely have seen some interesting stuff coming from Kurt. And Dave we all know.... Foo Fighters would probably have happened anyway at some point.

R.I.P. Kurt wherever you are...

EddieisNumber1

I do believe Kurt was depressed and suicidal. But if you look at a clip called Unsolved Mysteries Kurt Cobain. Think twice and you'll probably think he was really murdered.

DriftingByTheStorm

EddieisNumber1 said:

I do believe Kurt was depressed and suicidal. But if you look at a clip called Unsolved Mysteries Kurt Cobain. Think twice and you'll probably think he was really murdered.

Go back and re read his suicide note. Forget the bottom lines. Read the part that starts "my goddess wife" and finish that paragraph.

I have a goddess of a wife who sweats ambition and empathy and a daughter who reminds me too much of what i used to be, full of love and joy, kissing every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point to where I can barely function. I can't stand the thought of Frances becoming the miserable, self-destructive, death rocker that I've become.

Kurt just had a few too many synapses firing the wrong connections. What he needed was some sort of cognitive behavioral therapy and a loooong vacation from the spotlight. IMHO the attempt to get him off heroin (a disease but also merely a symptom of another disease - depression) without trying to address and treat his life long depression was not only a bad move, but probably a fatal mistake. Kurt probably felt like the one thing in this world which brought him solace and relief was being pried from him. The feelings that surfaced during withdrawal, and the thought of living (being forced to live) sober may have been what drove him over the edge.

Amongst the Ani

Despite all his money and fame he was seen frequenting and staying at the same heroin hotels to get high as he did before the fame. If that doesn't show how strong his depression and his addiction were I don't know what will. One of the most famous people on the plant in a dirty, nasty crack house as his preferred place to get high. He had many dealers elsewhere. He just chose to go hang with the other junkies. The man lost to his disease.

There was a great documentary about his last few days. Steven Adler from GNR ran into Kurt at the airport when he flew back from LA to Seattle after going awol from rehab. He said Kurt looked fine and if he had only known he would have tried to spend more time that day with him to save him. So many people loved and cared for him. If he couldnt see that we should be able to see how far he had gone down the road of losing himself.

And for those that think Courtney murdered him, Kurt bought the ammo himself a week before he died. We know this because he asked his driver to take it to his house when he found out he couldn't fly with it to LA. Kurt set this plan in motion long before he actually did it.

SEACIDE

Two greatest shows I never attended.....
Nirvana Unplugged....which led me to Pearl Jam Unplugged.
Life changing....
We all have our demons...it's how we deal with them that makes us who we are.

mrussel1

FrankY59 said:

I wonder if people realize what Nevermind did to rock n roll. If anyone can recall the overnight takedown of Michael Jackson's Dangerous album to #1 on the Billboard charts. A completely new genre of rock was born.
It is easy to dismiss Kurt because he was a junkie, but he was accomplished regardless.

What they really took down, fortunately, was 80's glam rock. They officially ended it. And they did so in a way that made Poison, Crue, Warrant look like nothing but a giant joke. Alice was getting some momentum as was SG, but it was really Nirvana that murdered the 80's. I will forever be grateful to Nirvana for that.

And the point that they were fading definitely has some truth, but Neil definitely had it right when he said "It's better to burn out then fade away". He burned out and he knew he would immortal for it.

jamburger

mrussel1 said:

FrankY59 said:

I wonder if people realize what Nevermind did to rock n roll. If anyone can recall the overnight takedown of Michael Jackson's Dangerous album to #1 on the Billboard charts. A completely new genre of rock was born.
It is easy to dismiss Kurt because he was a junkie, but he was accomplished regardless.

What they really took down, fortunately, was 80's glam rock. They officially ended it. And they did so in a way that made Poison, Crue, Warrant look like nothing but a giant joke. Alice was getting some momentum as was SG, but it was really Nirvana that murdered the 80's. I will forever be grateful to Nirvana for that.

Do Guns 'n Roses get no credit for this?

Edited to add this opinion from Spin: http://www.spin.com/articles/myth-no-2-nirvana-killed-hair-metal/

mrussel1

GnR are still glammish in my book. They were not pretty boys, but still had that element (hair, costumes, ballads, etc.) Nirvana kicked the piss out of the genre. SG and AIC helped.

on2legs

jamburger said:

mrussel1 said:

FrankY59 said:

I wonder if people realize what Nevermind did to rock n roll. If anyone can recall the overnight takedown of Michael Jackson's Dangerous album to #1 on the Billboard charts. A completely new genre of rock was born.
It is easy to dismiss Kurt because he was a junkie, but he was accomplished regardless.

What they really took down, fortunately, was 80's glam rock. They officially ended it. And they did so in a way that made Poison, Crue, Warrant look like nothing but a giant joke. Alice was getting some momentum as was SG, but it was really Nirvana that murdered the 80's. I will forever be grateful to Nirvana for that.

Do Guns 'n Roses get no credit for this?

Edited to add this opinion from Spin: http://www.spin.com/articles/myth-no-2-nirvana-killed-hair-metal/

No credit available for the band that served up this healthy portion of 80s cheese...

youtube.com/watch?v=8SbUC-UaAxE

mrussel1

I don't buy the Queensryche killing glam from Spin. They were 3 degrees from glam and Silent Lucidity blew in my book. I could buy off on Janes but the interesting thing about them is that they really didn't get big until they were on their way out. I don't think the average teen really knew much about Jane's until after Nirvana had blown up.

aurynsdad

rival. said:

It would be interesting to think about how long Nirvana would have stuck around if it weren't for Kurt's death. Imagine the same situation happening to Pearl Jam after No Code? People would said they were done anyways, the album was not well received and maybe it was the beginning of the end for PJ. And here we are all these years later...

There are people at the Red Mosquito forum that pretty much regard Pearl Jam this way.

karmadefect

rgambs said:

yeah they shook the world and that's great, but the quality of music just wasn't there. Creativity and originality, yes, but not quality. I doubt anyone here would try to equate the musical talents of kris with jeff, or of kurt with eddie or stone.

I love Eddie's lyrics.
He is a great story teller,
but I think Kurt was the better poet.

karmadefect

jp307677 said:

Thanks. Disease? I'd call it laziness, stupidity, and no will power.

Seriously? Not getting over an addition is lazy stupid and shows lack of will power?
Well it's stupid to begin with herion, I'll give you that, but an addiction is hard to beat.
It doesn't stand or fall alone with just not using it. It are complex things that need to be tackled from more than one angle.
What was the reason that he took it in the first place? One could guess his childhood gave him some issues that were unresolved. Music seemed to be an escape for him, but that save place got burdened with the effects of fame.
Anyway laziness has nothing to do with it. Stupid to begin yes. Will power? No one gets something done on just will power alone. Will power might be the wind in your sails to set you of, but after that you need more than just will power alone.
To quit smoking on just will power is hard and again not enough, most people need something to substitude at least at first. Suggesting to beat a heroin addiction on just will power, only shows you know to little about the subject.
Comparing an addiction to a disease is by no means a strange thing.

karmadefect

aurynsdad said:

rival. said:

It would be interesting to think about how long Nirvana would have stuck around if it weren't for Kurt's death. Imagine the same situation happening to Pearl Jam after No Code? People would said they were done anyways, the album was not well received and maybe it was the beginning of the end for PJ. And here we are all these years later...

There are people at the Red Mosquito forum that pretty much regard Pearl Jam this way.

Yes they do tend to be a bit negative down there. :P

lanoisseforp

Kurt and Nirvana gave us three studio albums and we should be very grateful for his existence that he was there in our time. His music will live on for future generations of music fans just like the current generation are enjoying Hendrix, Joplin, Presley, etc. So instead of spewing negative postings about Kurt such as him being a deadbeat father, junkie, asshole, etc… we should be celebrating his life as he had existed and gave the world the music that we enjoy to this very day. It is very disrespectful to speak ill of the dead since they are not around anymore to defend themselves. Rest in Peace Kurt Donald Cobain 1967 - 1994

FrankY59

Soooo Nirvana's last studio track, "You Know You're Right," reading the lyrics, it sounds as if Kurt is saying goodbye, a prelude to his suicide. I believe it was written 3 months before his death. It just seems so obvious...any thoughts?!

DriftingByTheStorm

FrankY59 said:

Soooo Nirvana's last studio track, "You Know You're Right," reading the lyrics, it sounds as if Kurt is saying goodbye, a prelude to his suicide. I believe it was written 3 months before his death. It just seems so obvious...any thoughts?!

It is definitely "death rock".

tempo_n_groove

FrankY59 said:

Soooo Nirvana's last studio track, "You Know You're Right," reading the lyrics, it sounds as if Kurt is saying goodbye, a prelude to his suicide. I believe it was written 3 months before his death. It just seems so obvious...any thoughts?!

All of In Utero was a cry for help. All apologies "married/buried", Heart shaped box "throw down your umbilical noose", Radio friendly shifter unit "love you for what I am not/do not want what I have got".

Just a few, but then again you could say that about a bunch of music and hindsight is 20/20.

TNG

DriftingByTheStorm

tempo_n_groove said:

FrankY59 said:

Soooo Nirvana's last studio track, "You Know You're Right," reading the lyrics, it sounds as if Kurt is saying goodbye, a prelude to his suicide. I believe it was written 3 months before his death. It just seems so obvious...any thoughts?!

All of In Utero was a cry for help. All apologies "married/buried", Heart shaped box "throw down your umbilical noose", Radio friendly shifter unit "love you for what I am not/do not want what I have got".

Just a few, but then again you could say that about a bunch of music and hindsight is 20/20.

TNG

You forgot this one: I Hate Myself And I Wanna Die

If it tells you anything, Kurt wanted it to be the TITLE of the entire goddamn album (and not In Utero).
I know he claims it was tongue-in-cheek, but COME ON.

Amongst the Ani

New documentary is about to come out: Trailer looks pretty good. I don't believe even 1% Courtney did anything other than push him to it mentally but will watch it:

http://www.soakedinbleach.com/

New note was released today that was found in Kurt's wallet:

https://music.yahoo.com/blogs/music-news/new-letter-revealed-from-kurt-cobain-s-death-scene--mocks-marriage-to-courtney-love-155042162.html