He pulled out of Lollapollza witch would have earned him 9.5 million..............pulling out of that ........cost millions too a lot of people......there is no doubt he was murdered if you really researched
From what I have read, he turned down Lollapalooza, not pulled out, completely different things.
The only way you could claim "there is no doubt he was murdered" is if there were no other logical ways of explaining the 'facts' you are clinging to - something in this case, which is not possible.
Take the lack of legible fingerprints on the gun, for example. It is in fact quite uncommon for legible prints to be found on a gun:
"In the examination of 1,000 firearms from February, 1992, through August, 1995, 114 identifiable latent prints were developed on 93 firearms. Although successful recovery occurred in approximately one of ten firearms, it should be understood that not all identifiable latent prints may have been left by an offender. Some developed latent prints, for example, are subsequently identified as belonging to a person involved in the collection of the evidence2."
atmospheric conditions, and the finish on the gun can also play a part too.
Oh, and the reason she hired a PI in L.A and not Seattle? Why not? If you are in L.A, looking for a PI, in the days before the internet, it woud be much quicker to find a local one than trying to search for Seattle numbers. More to the point, why would you hire one at all if you were trying to cover up a murder?
Then let's get on to the point of - why would you try your hardest to get Kurt into rehab, a place he could have stayed and got better, if you were planning his murder? Kurt could have gotten a flight to anywhere he wanted. I would imagine that a murder made to look like a suicide would take a fair amount of planning - I highly doubt a part of that plan would be that the victim may or may not turn up.
Courtney Love...just look at her...does she look intelligent enough to pull off a mastermind, full-proof plan to have her celebrity husband murdered and get away with it? End of discussion.
That is a pretty good point, although enough money and someone else could have planned it.
The PD would have had her confessing within an hour if she had anything to do with it or had any knowledge of anything but a suicide.
Courtney Love...just look at her...does she look intelligent enough to pull off a mastermind, full-proof plan to have her celebrity husband murdered and get away with it? End of discussion.
That is a pretty good point, although enough money and someone else could have planned it.
The PD would have had her confessing within an hour if she had anything to do with it or had any knowledge of anything but a suicide.
Im not saying she did it but what are you basing that off of? She is a strung out-stain. Do you think she couldn't lie to cops?
Courtney Love...just look at her...does she look intelligent enough to pull off a mastermind, full-proof plan to have her celebrity husband murdered and get away with it? End of discussion.
Courtney Love...just look at her...does she look intelligent enough to pull off a mastermind, full-proof plan to have her celebrity husband murdered and get away with it? End of discussion.
That is a pretty good point, although enough money and someone else could have planned it.
He pulled out of Lollapollza witch would have earned him 9.5 million..............pulling out of that ........cost millions too a lot of people......there is no doubt he was murdered if you really researched
From what I have read, he turned down Lollapalooza, not pulled out, completely different things.
The only way you could claim "there is no doubt he was murdered" is if there were no other logical ways of explaining the 'facts' you are clinging to - something in this case, which is not possible.
Take the lack of legible fingerprints on the gun, for example. It is in fact quite uncommon for legible prints to be found on a gun:
"In the examination of 1,000 firearms from February, 1992, through August, 1995, 114 identifiable latent prints were developed on 93 firearms. Although successful recovery occurred in approximately one of ten firearms, it should be understood that not all identifiable latent prints may have been left by an offender. Some developed latent prints, for example, are subsequently identified as belonging to a person involved in the collection of the evidence2."
atmospheric conditions, and the finish on the gun can also play a part too.
Oh, and the reason she hired a PI in L.A and not Seattle? Why not? If you are in L.A, looking for a PI, in the days before the internet, it woud be much quicker to find a local one than trying to search for Seattle numbers. More to the point, why would you hire one at all if you were trying to cover up a murder?
Then let's get on to the point of - why would you try your hardest to get Kurt into rehab, a place he could have stayed and got better, if you were planning his murder? Kurt could have gotten a flight to anywhere he wanted. I would imagine that a murder made to look like a suicide would take a fair amount of planning - I highly doubt a part of that plan would be that the victim may or may not turn up.
He pulled out of Lollapollza witch would have earned him 9.5 million..............pulling out of that ........cost millions too a lot of people......there is no doubt he was murdered if you really researched
From what I have read, he turned down Lollapalooza, not pulled out, completely different things.
The only way you could claim "there is no doubt he was murdered" is if there were no other logical ways of explaining the 'facts' you are clinging to - something in this case, which is not possible.
Take the lack of legible fingerprints on the gun, for example. It is in fact quite uncommon for legible prints to be found on a gun:
"In the examination of 1,000 firearms from February, 1992, through August, 1995, 114 identifiable latent prints were developed on 93 firearms. Although successful recovery occurred in approximately one of ten firearms, it should be understood that not all identifiable latent prints may have been left by an offender. Some developed latent prints, for example, are subsequently identified as belonging to a person involved in the collection of the evidence2."
atmospheric conditions, and the finish on the gun can also play a part too.
Oh, and the reason she hired a PI in L.A and not Seattle? Why not? If you are in L.A, looking for a PI, in the days before the internet, it woud be much quicker to find a local one than trying to search for Seattle numbers. More to the point, why would you hire one at all if you were trying to cover up a murder?
Then let's get on to the point of - why would you try your hardest to get Kurt into rehab, a place he could have stayed and got better, if you were planning his murder? Kurt could have gotten a flight to anywhere he wanted. I would imagine that a murder made to look like a suicide would take a fair amount of planning - I highly doubt a part of that plan would be that the victim may or may not turn up.
Everybody knows this was going to go down.....Including Management and Courtney ......The electrician made a remark "look like his hair was combed" ....might not mean anything ......but never heard about that all in other cases.....She Called to get the security lights checked on the greenhouse....why just the greenhouse........So his body was found.....not by the P.I. .....another thing .......if Courtney wanted to find him..........just call .....like a said the mail Nanny or his friends up in Seattle to look for him
She did ask the nanny to look for him, but he would not have had the tracking skills a PI would have had at the time. It's easy to judge the situation now in hindsight since we know the outcome, but him disappearing did not necessarily indicate the grave outcome at the time - he had just disappeared, and she obviously, out of concern, wanted to know where he was.
JP33, I can see that no amount of common sense debate is going to change your mind, no matter how tenuous, convoluted or flat out ridiculous these theories are. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists - when somebody gives a completely legitimate and logical explanation for something, the theorist is so commited to their version of events that they couldn't accept the common sense explanation even if they wanted to.
She did ask the nanny to look for him, but he would not have had the tracking skills a PI would have had at the time. It's easy to judge the situation now in hindsight since we know the outcome, but him disappearing did not necessarily indicate the grave outcome at the time - he had just disappeared, and she obviously, out of concern, wanted to know where he was.
JP33, I can see that no amount of common sense debate is going to change your mind, no matter how tenuous, convoluted or flat out ridiculous these theories are. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists - when somebody gives a completely legitimate and logical explanation for something, the theorist is so commited to their version of events that they couldn't accept the common sense explanation even if they wanted to.
She did ask the nanny to look for him, but he would not have had the tracking skills a PI would have had at the time. It's easy to judge the situation now in hindsight since we know the outcome, but him disappearing did not necessarily indicate the grave outcome at the time - he had just disappeared, and she obviously, out of concern, wanted to know where he was.
JP33, I can see that no amount of common sense debate is going to change your mind, no matter how tenuous, convoluted or flat out ridiculous these theories are. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists - when somebody gives a completely legitimate and logical explanation for something, the theorist is so commited to their version of events that they couldn't accept the common sense explanation even if they wanted to.
She did ask the nanny to look for him, but he would not have had the tracking skills a PI would have had at the time. It's easy to judge the situation now in hindsight since we know the outcome, but him disappearing did not necessarily indicate the grave outcome at the time - he had just disappeared, and she obviously, out of concern, wanted to know where he was.
JP33, I can see that no amount of common sense debate is going to change your mind, no matter how tenuous, convoluted or flat out ridiculous these theories are. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists - when somebody gives a completely legitimate and logical explanation for something, the theorist is so commited to their version of events that they couldn't accept the common sense explanation even if they wanted to.
We are not talking tracking skills..........Just have the Nanny there waiting for him..........obviously he was not there.........Simple........Common Sense.......You do not hire a P.I. .You have people that work for you waiting at the house for him..........my opinion ..........there was 2 people .......the mail nanny.........and the the other......completed question mark? I have copies of the real police reports.........go to cobaincase.com and listen to Courtney and her Lawyer not knowing they are being recorded.............Bottom Line ..........If Courtney Love does not like you ......she will get her 7 disciple lawyers after you....or beat you up and threatning your life............Tom Grant purposely try for years to get Courtney to sue him......she will not for some reason.....I wonder why ....... so he can present evidence he will not release unless it goes to court .......Another thing .....Cobain was injected 3 Times a Lethal dose of Heroin.........Cobains Heroin Level(morphine) blood level was 1.52 mgs per liter...this would require a minimum injection of 225 mgs of heroin.....three times a lethal dose......even for a hardcore heroin addict! ......the drug Diazepam was also found in Cobains blood system.....that would double the affect
There is no one specific lethal dose of heroin for all individuals, it is dependent on many different factors. In addition the reported level of 1.52 mgs per litre does not differentiate between free morphine and conjugated mophine levels, therefore some of that heroin may have already been spent so to speak.
As far as I am aware, no specific level of diazepam was reported, and since it has a long half-life (over a week), it may have still been present from his stay in rehab or in the days before he died. Therefore he could have had a large dose or mere traces left in his blood, and they still would have reported to have found it. If you are specifically saying that diazepam would exactly "double" the effect of heroin, then you would need to know the quantity taken, which you don't, therefore your point has no merit at all.
believe what you want.....I am done telling more evidence
But you haven't given any hard factually based evidence, that's my point. You don't know any of the stuff you've posted to be 100% true - I guess that's the problem when you come to a conclusion before you have the facts, you grasp at any old straw to support your belief.
He pulled out of Lollapollza witch would have earned him 9.5 million..............pulling out of that ........cost millions too a lot of people......there is no doubt he was murdered if you really researched
From what I have read, he turned down Lollapalooza, not pulled out, completely different things.
The only way you could claim "there is no doubt he was murdered" is if there were no other logical ways of explaining the 'facts' you are clinging to - something in this case, which is not possible.
Take the lack of legible fingerprints on the gun, for example. It is in fact quite uncommon for legible prints to be found on a gun: pulled out or turning down is actually the same thing ....He rejected it .....Period Amen http://scafo.org/library/130303.html
"In the examination of 1,000 firearms from February, 1992, through August, 1995, 114 identifiable latent prints were developed on 93 firearms. Although successful recovery occurred in approximately one of ten firearms, it should be understood that not all identifiable latent prints may have been left by an offender. Some developed latent prints, for example, are subsequently identified as belonging to a person involved in the collection of the evidence2."
atmospheric conditions, and the finish on the gun can also play a part too.
Oh, and the reason she hired a PI in L.A and not Seattle? Why not? If you are in L.A, looking for a PI, in the days before the internet, it woud be much quicker to find a local one than trying to search for Seattle numbers. More to the point, why would you hire one at all if you were trying to cover up a murder?
Then let's get on to the point of - why would you try your hardest to get Kurt into rehab, a place he could have stayed and got better, if you were planning his murder? Kurt could have gotten a flight to anywhere he wanted. I would imagine that a murder made to look like a suicide would take a fair amount of planning - I highly doubt a part of that plan would be that the victim may or may not turn up.
Do your research before coming up with self belief.......I have done all the research.....their are detectives that want to reopen the case but they are retired
He pulled out of Lollapollza witch would have earned him 9.5 million..............pulling out of that ........cost millions too a lot of people......there is no doubt he was murdered if you really researched
From what I have read, he turned down Lollapalooza, not pulled out, completely different things.
The only way you could claim "there is no doubt he was murdered" is if there were no other logical ways of explaining the 'facts' you are clinging to - something in this case, which is not possible.
Take the lack of legible fingerprints on the gun, for example. It is in fact quite uncommon for legible prints to be found on a gun: pulled out or turning down is actually the same thing ....He rejected it .....Period Amen http://scafo.org/library/130303.html
"In the examination of 1,000 firearms from February, 1992, through August, 1995, 114 identifiable latent prints were developed on 93 firearms. Although successful recovery occurred in approximately one of ten firearms, it should be understood that not all identifiable latent prints may have been left by an offender. Some developed latent prints, for example, are subsequently identified as belonging to a person involved in the collection of the evidence2."
atmospheric conditions, and the finish on the gun can also play a part too.
Oh, and the reason she hired a PI in L.A and not Seattle? Why not? If you are in L.A, looking for a PI, in the days before the internet, it woud be much quicker to find a local one than trying to search for Seattle numbers. More to the point, why would you hire one at all if you were trying to cover up a murder?
Then let's get on to the point of - why would you try your hardest to get Kurt into rehab, a place he could have stayed and got better, if you were planning his murder? Kurt could have gotten a flight to anywhere he wanted. I would imagine that a murder made to look like a suicide would take a fair amount of planning - I highly doubt a part of that plan would be that the victim may or may not turn up.
Do your research before coming up with self belief.......I have done all the research.....their are detectives that want to reopen the case but they are retired
I have done my research, I've read through Tom Grant's site many times and pretty much anything else I could find. From what I have read, all of Grant's assertions can be explained in a different way. There is a reason none of this would ever stand up in court, because it is all circumstantial evidence - there are no smoking guns (pardon the pun). So your decision to believe the murder theory requires a complete leap of faith.
Tom Grant said he is withholding evidence until it goes to court or ever gets to court.........The case will reopen some day.....but only "death undertermened" .....and that leap of faith .......you can also say that to the majority of people that believe he was murdered........I am done talking with you .....just let it go ........and take a leap of faith to an oath of silence....not messaging on this subject again............so say whatever.....I am not going to look up any more comments on this discussion ......Bye
Believe what you want ....period amen.....you sure are not going to change my look on it ....so why even say anything? lol.......Bye again
Well of course I'm not going to change your mind, you have made your mind up on a mountain of circumstantial evidence and the promise of withheld evidence from somebody who you haven't even considered might possibly have an alternative agenda of his own.
But yeah, fair enough, if you're struggling to come up with any logical explanations behind your blind accepting of one man's word in the face of actual facts, then so be it.
Believe what you want ....period amen.....you sure are not going to change my look on it ....so why even say anything? lol.......Bye again
hey ....
Well of course I'm not going to change your mind, you have made your mind up on a mountain of circumstantial evidence and the promise of withheld evidence from somebody who you haven't even considered might possibly have an alternative agenda of his own.
But yeah, fair enough, if you're struggling to come up with any logical explanations behind your blind accepting of one man's word in the face of actual facts, then so be it.
hey You have a friend speaking your language......go to AlternativeNation.net .........you should join the force
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buck502000
Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
I am reading Heavier than Heaven by Charles Cross, it seems as though Cross has made a point of testifying that Kurt was a crazy person and drug addict, capable of anything. I also find it very convenient, Cross is a close "personal" friend of Courtney Love. It is an interesting book, although I do think the view presented is severely slanted, as stated above. I just can't get over how many of the recounted stories in the book, are taken as fact. It also seems the author has "cherry picked" bit of interviews to sensationalize Kurt's behavior. I can't help think Courtney was totally behind the editing of this book. Of course, this is just MY opinion.
I am reading Heavier than Heaven by Charles Cross, it seems as though Cross has made a point of testifying that Kurt was a crazy person and drug addict, capable of anything. I also find it very convenient, Cross is a close "personal" friend of Courtney Love. It is an interesting book, although I do think the view presented is severely slanted, as stated above. I just can't get over how many of the recounted stories in the book, are taken as fact. It also seems the author has "cherry picked" bit of interviews to sensationalize Kurt's behavior. I can't help think Courtney was totally behind the editing of this book. Of course, this is just MY opinion.
I feel what your saying ... I have that book also....I enjoyed it before I heard Courtney being taped on the phone as well as her own lawyer.....I always thought he killed himself till 3 years ago when I heard those tapes as well as the book.."Love and Death" ........Even if you do not like Cobain or believe he was murdered.....If you like murder mystery books.....this is right up your alley..........I literally read that whole book in 1 day.........check that out ....Woo.........you talk about being on a roller coster ....that book....by Ian Helprin......Max Wallace.....New York Times best seller........Love and Death
Cobain had no exit wound..........Heavier than Heaven.....she messed up if this ever goes to court what she said in Heavier than Heaven.....Its in there ....no spoilers here brother
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buck502000
Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
The pieces just do not fit.
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buck502000
Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
Comments
The only way you could claim "there is no doubt he was murdered" is if there were no other logical ways of explaining the 'facts' you are clinging to - something in this case, which is not possible.
Take the lack of legible fingerprints on the gun, for example. It is in fact quite uncommon for legible prints to be found on a gun:
http://scafo.org/library/130303.html
"In the examination of 1,000 firearms from February, 1992, through August, 1995, 114 identifiable latent prints were developed on 93 firearms. Although successful recovery occurred in approximately one of ten firearms, it should be understood that not all identifiable latent prints may have been left by an offender. Some developed latent prints, for example, are subsequently identified as belonging to a person involved in the collection of the evidence2."
atmospheric conditions, and the finish on the gun can also play a part too.
Oh, and the reason she hired a PI in L.A and not Seattle? Why not? If you are in L.A, looking for a PI, in the days before the internet, it woud be much quicker to find a local one than trying to search for Seattle numbers. More to the point, why would you hire one at all if you were trying to cover up a murder?
Then let's get on to the point of - why would you try your hardest to get Kurt into rehab, a place he could have stayed and got better, if you were planning his murder? Kurt could have gotten a flight to anywhere he wanted. I would imagine that a murder made to look like a suicide would take a fair amount of planning - I highly doubt a part of that plan would be that the victim may or may not turn up.
Wind this thing up.
JP33, I can see that no amount of common sense debate is going to change your mind, no matter how tenuous, convoluted or flat out ridiculous these theories are. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists - when somebody gives a completely legitimate and logical explanation for something, the theorist is so commited to their version of events that they couldn't accept the common sense explanation even if they wanted to.
As far as I am aware, no specific level of diazepam was reported, and since it has a long half-life (over a week), it may have still been present from his stay in rehab or in the days before he died. Therefore he could have had a large dose or mere traces left in his blood, and they still would have reported to have found it. If you are specifically saying that diazepam would exactly "double" the effect of heroin, then you would need to know the quantity taken, which you don't, therefore your point has no merit at all.
But yeah, fair enough, if you're struggling to come up with any logical explanations behind your blind accepting of one man's word in the face of actual facts, then so be it.
I have that book also....I enjoyed it before I heard Courtney being taped on the phone as well as her own lawyer.....I always thought he killed himself till 3 years ago when I heard those tapes as well as the book.."Love and Death" ........Even if you do not like Cobain or believe he was murdered.....If you like murder mystery books.....this is right up your alley..........I literally read that whole book in 1 day.........check that out ....Woo.........you talk about being on a roller coster ....that book....by Ian Helprin......Max Wallace.....New York Times best seller........Love and Death