Disagree that they were on the way out. In Utero was hugely popular st my school. MTV unplugged performance was generally recognized as the harrowing brilliance it was. I remember the entire tone of our school changing the day his death was announced. ALL my friends (the entire freak-nerd vortex of freethinkers) were in some degree of genuine distress. You could make a fair case that the musical landscape was in the throws of shifting back towards more rap-pop centric culture but it wasn't Nirvana that was on the way out. happy music and gangster rap were simply usurping mainstream media hyped "grunge" culture. Maybe not everyone in our "generation" felt it, but he definitely stood as and remains in the hearts of many a sort of sad generational spokesman who screamed the disaffection so many felt, giving voice to their silent angst.
On a side note, I think today I finally have come to terms with the fact that Kurt actually DID kill himself. I have long bought in to the Tom Grant theories (having received his weekly update emails WAY back in the day) surrounding Courtney and her motives, however going back and re reading his suicide note today, even ignoring the "forged" bottom lines, it seems pretty clear. It is the note of a sad man, acknowledging his own failure to love his fortune. acknowledging that he is a hypocritical whiner.
The kicker for me is the following lines, where any notion that he was about to divorce Courtney is laid to bed, and his disturbed fears for his daughter rather clearly paint the picture of a morbidly depressed little man:
I have a goddess of a wife who sweats ambition and empathy and a daughter who reminds me too much of what i used to be, full of love and joy, kissing every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point to where I can barely function. I can't stand the thought of Frances becoming the miserable, self-destructive, death rocker that I've become.
RIP, little Pisces Jesus man.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I read somewhere Neil Young regretting not being able to talk to Kurt in which he nearly had a chance very close to before he died. It was basically the same speech given to Eddie as depicted in PJ20. He still wonders if it would've saved him.
I like Nirvana, but the band is so overrated and so is Kurt. I think it's ridiculous that people look at guys like him as heroes. Him and his wife were clearly junkies whose lives were an absolute mess. I don't think that's iconic at all, and it's a shame that he gets more attention and credit than others who make better music and keep their lives together and don't make fools out of themselves.
Wow man, have some compassion. Drug abuse is a disease, not something to judge someone on. Get off your high horse. Judge him on his music, anything else is none of your business.
A self-inflicted disease. Everyone knows the dangers of doing heroin before they do it, so why would anyone in their right mind wanna do it? "Not iconic at all" is right.
I like Nirvana, but the band is so overrated and so is Kurt. I think it's ridiculous that people look at guys like him as heroes. Him and his wife were clearly junkies whose lives were an absolute mess. I don't think that's iconic at all, and it's a shame that he gets more attention and credit than others who make better music and keep their lives together and don't make fools out of themselves.
Wow man, have some compassion. Drug abuse is a disease, not something to judge someone on. Get off your high horse. Judge him on his music, anything else is none of your business.
A self-inflicted disease. Everyone knows the dangers of doing heroin before they do it, so why would anyone in their right mind wanna do it? "Not iconic at all" is right.
Thanks. Disease? I'd call it laziness, stupidity, and no will power.
RIP Kurt and still a legend to this day… I will pull out one of your records now to listen. I have defended your band over the past 20+ years when people said Nirvana ruined the music business and to be quite honest… it was your band that saved the 90s music because many others were releasing shit at the time. Again RIP Kurt Cobain and you are missed and will never be forgotten.
Although I can't or won't justify what he did some people just never get out of a rut. Sometimes it goes beyond will power and some people just have a strangely skewed version of how life works. It sucks he died but it was his choice, and that doesn't make him an icon his music did. Same with Layne Staley. A lot of this darkness is what makes them great artists across all mediums.
This was a monologue on the beginning track of a TOOL song 'Third Eye'
"See, I think drugs have done some good things for us, I really do. And if you don’t believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor; go home tonight, take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your CD’s and burn em’. 'Cause you don't want the musicians who’ve made all that great music that’s enhanced your lives throughout the years?.. Rrrrrrrreal fuckin' high on drugs."
Sadly I agree this applies a lot of times in music.
It would be interesting to think about how long Nirvana would have stuck around if it weren't for Kurt's death.
I cant imagine Dave would have spent many more years behind the drum kit playing Kurt's songs. Hes too talented, and even if Kurt lived that solo Foo release would have eventually happened. Maybe later than 1995, but not much.
I agree with this 100%. Dave was way to talented to stay with nirvana.
Nirvana was a great band. I don't think they were overrated. Kurt had an incredible voice. Had he not died, I don't think nirvana would have remained a band, but Kurt would have definitely made more great music that most if us would love.
I loved nirvana. I went through multiple copies of nevermind because i wore the tapes out. Kurt changed music. Unfortunately, because of his selfish act, we'll never know what may have been.
I had a 10 hour drive today on a nice Spring day; the nicest Spring day we've had up here in Alberta this year and before I walked out the door this morning, I took my visor-CD holder out of the truck, brought it into the house and grabbed my big 3 inch CD binder off my LP shelf. I flipped past my 7 or 8 pages of PJ albums to the one page of Nirvana albums and I grabbed all of them and put them into my CD sleeve for the truck. I tuned out the radio and plugged in the Bleach. Absolutely cranked it. Up to 11 for sure. (damn; that guy on here with that handle "11 is one more than 10" or whatever he says... fuck that's golden shit.) Anyways, I proceeded to entertain my ears and fill my brain with the 90's gold, including "I'M A NEGATIVE CREEP!!! I'M A NEGATIVE CREEP!! I'M A NEGATIVE CREEP AND I'M STONNNNED!" and
I'm not like them But I can pretend The sun is gone But I have a light The day is done But I'm having fun I think I'm dumb Or maybe just happy
As the hours rushed by and the miles rolled over by the hundreds I came to end of my musical tribute of respect which inevitably ending in a good scream to :
MY GIRL!!!! MY GIRL!!!!! DON'T LIIIIIIE TO ME!!! TELL ME WHERE!! DID YOU SLEEP!!!! LAST NIGHT?!?! IN THE PINES!!! THE PINES!!! WHERE THE SUN!!! D'SHINE!! I SHIVVAAHHHHHHHHHh.......... oh wh'oah ohhh *big sigh* NIIIIIIIIIIGHT THROUUUUUUUUUUUUGH
I actually think that bit in PJ20 where Neil's voice is heard saying 'I told him to just drop all his shit, quit everything' or whatever is actually in reference to Kurt and not having the chance to tell him that before he died.
I read somewhere Neil Young regretting not being able to talk to Kurt in which he nearly had a chance very close to before he died. It was basically the same speech given to Eddie as depicted in PJ20. He still wonders if it would've saved him.
I actually think that bit in PJ20 where Neil's voice is heard saying 'I told him to just drop all his shit, quit everything' or whatever is actually in reference to Kurt and not having the chance to tell him that before he died.
I read somewhere Neil Young regretting not being able to talk to Kurt in which he nearly had a chance very close to before he died. It was basically the same speech given to Eddie as depicted in PJ20. He still wonders if it would've saved him.
I actually think that bit in PJ20 where Neil's voice is heard saying 'I told him to just drop all his shit, quit everything' or whatever is actually in reference to Kurt and not having the chance to tell him that before he died.
He stated that's what he was going to tell him but never got the chance.
I read somewhere Neil Young regretting not being able to talk to Kurt in which he nearly had a chance very close to before he died. It was basically the same speech given to Eddie as depicted in PJ20. He still wonders if it would've saved him.
I actually think that bit in PJ20 where Neil's voice is heard saying 'I told him to just drop all his shit, quit everything' or whatever is actually in reference to Kurt and not having the chance to tell him that before he died.
He stated that's what he was going to tell him but never got the chance.
I think Kurt's brilliance wouldve been lost on most people had he lived. Kids would treat Nirvana the same they do REM or PJAM. Old people music. LOL. That's the ironic part. Nirvana is like a critically acclaimed TV show that gets cancelled before it loses its edge.
As a parent i think he's an idiot. You have to put your kids first and he chose never to do that.
With all that said i still feel his brilliance when i put on certain Nirvana songs. He changed music for the better.
I like Nirvana, but the band is so overrated and so is Kurt. I think it's ridiculous that people look at guys like him as heroes. Him and his wife were clearly junkies whose lives were an absolute mess. I don't think that's iconic at all, and it's a shame that he gets more attention and credit than others who make better music and keep their lives together and don't make fools out of themselves.
Exactly.
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buck502000
Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
edited April 2014
I am not making excuses for Kurt, but instant fame can really f*ck with your head. It does not take away from the brilliance and genius that Nirvana was. Have you listened to any of Nirvana's music lately?
It's too bad nobody makes music like that nowadays - or if they are not very many people are listening to it. Hopefully for the youth of today, a resurgence is on the way.
This was a monologue on the beginning track of a TOOL song 'Third Eye'
"See, I think drugs have done some good things for us, I really do. And if you don’t believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor; go home tonight, take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your CD’s and burn em’. 'Cause you don't want the musicians who’ve made all that great music that’s enhanced your lives throughout the years?.. Rrrrrrrreal fuckin' high on drugs."
Sadly I agree this applies a lot of times in music.
That is actually the late great comedian Bill Hicks. That Tool album was dedicated to him. References were everywhere on that album.
I am hoping that they find some other unpublished music one day.
The teen in me thought Kurts suicide was poetic and tragic and fitting.
The parent version of me thinks he's a weak coward. You dont abandon your child (especially leaving her solely in his wife's care). Be a man and raise your kid. The fame he sought didnt seem as fun. Okay so retreat. Drugs f***ed you up? No excuse. You have a defenseless child that needs you. I cant respect what he did.
The teen in me thought Kurts suicide was poetic and tragic and fitting.
The parent version of me thinks he's a weak coward. You dont abandon your child (especially leaving her solely in his wife's care). Be a man and raise your kid. The fame he sought didnt seem as fun. Okay so retreat. Drugs f***ed you up? No excuse. You have a defenseless child that needs you. I cant respect what he did.
Nope. Had very close relatives hooked but i was never THAT dumb. Thankfully they kicked it and saw the big picture. Im not trying to sound holier than thou. Its just a simple message that i learned with age. Be a man and raise your kid. He abandoned his kid just like a deadbeat dad. No one loved Nirvana more than me from 90-94. Still love him as an artist. Always will. Awful parent tho.
I don't think you understand what clinical depression is. He obviously lived a life that 99.9% of people have never lived, so none of our opinions count. This country does a poor job in not only treating but recognizing mental illnesses. No one should doubt he loved his family which shows the toll untreated depression can take. Call it a cop out all you want but it's a recurring theme in depressed people but he just happened to be a celebrity which still doesn't change his disease.
I don't think you understand what clinical depression is. He obviously lived a life that 99.9% of people have never lived, so none of our opinions count. This country does a poor job in not only treating but recognizing mental illnesses. No one should doubt he loved his family which shows the toll untreated depression can take. Call it a cop out all you want but it's a recurring theme in depressed people but he just happened to be a celebrity which still doesn't change his disease.
It's good to know some people have some sense around here, and some compassion......
Comments
On a side note, I think today I finally have come to terms with the fact that Kurt actually DID kill himself. I have long bought in to the Tom Grant theories (having received his weekly update emails WAY back in the day) surrounding Courtney and her motives, however going back and re reading his suicide note today, even ignoring the "forged" bottom lines, it seems pretty clear. It is the note of a sad man, acknowledging his own failure to love his fortune. acknowledging that he is a hypocritical whiner.
The kicker for me is the following lines, where any notion that he was about to divorce Courtney is laid to bed, and his disturbed fears for his daughter rather clearly paint the picture of a morbidly depressed little man: RIP, little Pisces Jesus man.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Wind this thing up.
This was a monologue on the beginning track of a TOOL song 'Third Eye'
"See, I think drugs have done some good things for us, I really do. And if you don’t believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor; go home tonight, take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your CD’s and burn em’. 'Cause you don't want the musicians who’ve made all that great music that’s enhanced your lives throughout the years?..
Rrrrrrrreal fuckin' high on drugs."
Sadly I agree this applies a lot of times in music.
Nirvana was a great band. I don't think they were overrated. Kurt had an incredible voice. Had he not died, I don't think nirvana would have remained a band, but Kurt would have definitely made more great music that most if us would love.
I had a 10 hour drive today on a nice Spring day; the nicest Spring day we've had up here in Alberta this year and before I walked out the door this morning, I took my visor-CD holder out of the truck, brought it into the house and grabbed my big 3 inch CD binder off my LP shelf. I flipped past my 7 or 8 pages of PJ albums to the one page of Nirvana albums and I grabbed all of them and put them into my CD sleeve for the truck. I tuned out the radio and plugged in the Bleach. Absolutely cranked it. Up to 11 for sure. (damn; that guy on here with that handle "11 is one more than 10" or whatever he says... fuck that's golden shit.) Anyways, I proceeded to entertain my ears and fill my brain with the 90's gold, including "I'M A NEGATIVE CREEP!!! I'M A NEGATIVE CREEP!! I'M A NEGATIVE CREEP AND I'M STONNNNED!" and
I'm not like them
But I can pretend
The sun is gone
But I have a light
The day is done
But I'm having fun
I think I'm dumb
Or maybe just happy
As the hours rushed by and the miles rolled over by the hundreds I came to end of my musical tribute of respect which inevitably ending in a good scream to :
MY GIRL!!!!
MY GIRL!!!!!
DON'T LIIIIIIE TO ME!!!
TELL ME WHERE!! DID YOU SLEEP!!!! LAST NIGHT?!?!
IN THE PINES!!!
THE PINES!!!
WHERE THE SUN!!!
D'SHINE!!
I SHIVVAAHHHHHHHHHh..........
oh wh'oah ohhh
*big sigh*
NIIIIIIIIIIGHT THROUUUUUUUUUUUUGH
It was a great day to remember.
2010 WATCH IT GO TO FIRE!!
Late at night I hear the trees, they're singing with the dead...overhead...”
Rip to both you guys
Wind this thing up.
Wind this thing up.
As a parent i think he's an idiot. You have to put your kids first and he chose never to do that.
With all that said i still feel his brilliance when i put on certain Nirvana songs. He changed music for the better.
huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/05/kurt-and-courtney-online_n_5096891.html
I am hoping that they find some other unpublished music one day.
The parent version of me thinks he's a weak coward. You dont abandon your child (especially leaving her solely in his wife's care). Be a man and raise your kid. The fame he sought didnt seem as fun. Okay so retreat. Drugs f***ed you up? No
excuse. You have a defenseless child that needs you. I cant respect what he did.