This is why I NEED an AR-15 with 30rd mags

know1

brianlux said:

know1 said:

I feel sorry for the OP for living in such fear.

That being said, people who are fanatical about guns are far worse in my mind than those who are fanatical about having them.

Can you clarify your statement, know1? Can we assume you mean, "People who are fanatically against having guns are far worse than those who are fanatical about having them"? And if so, what do you mean by worse? More fanatical? More annoying? Sick in the head? Needing a life? Anal retentive? Worse how?

Sorry. It must have cut off. I'm saying people who are fanatical about having guns are far worse than those fanatical about banning them.

I mean more dangerous to society.

brianlux

know1 said:

brianlux said:

know1 said:

I feel sorry for the OP for living in such fear.

That being said, people who are fanatical about guns are far worse in my mind than those who are fanatical about having them.

Can you clarify your statement, know1? Can we assume you mean, "People who are fanatically against having guns are far worse than those who are fanatical about having them"? And if so, what do you mean by worse? More fanatical? More annoying? Sick in the head? Needing a life? Anal retentive? Worse how?

Sorry. It must have cut off. I'm saying people who are fanatical about having guns are far worse than those fanatical about banning them.

I mean more dangerous to society.

I agree! I know some very responsible gun owners but they are generally people who don't talk about it a lot and certainly don't advertise their ownership on public forums. And this isn't to say that every gun enthusiast is a bad person but I agree that pro-gun fanaticism leads generally to a more dangerous situation. Gun death statistics in America are proof of that.

myoung321

I feel sorry for anyone that has been programmed to believe guns make them safer.

The idea that horrible crimes such as this could have been prevented with more guns in the house is extremely naive or flat out ignorant.... you pick.

"Drilling for fear, makes the job simple"

jmuscatello

Whether you see it as paranoid or not, I agree it's just a bummer that many people feel the need to arm themselves to feel safe in our society. What I think is just plain over the top is to feel that 30rd mags are NEEDED for that "wall of lead" to defend oneself. To me, that's a totally different mindset. I do feel some comfort knowing that gun enthusiasts who need high capacity mags to feel safe won't move from their own restrictive "commie" states to mine, which was at least finally able to get a 15rd limit passed. For me, that in itself makes the legislation worthwhile.

chadwick

myoung321 said:

I feel sorry for anyone that has been programmed to believe guns make them safer.

The idea that horrible crimes such as this could have been prevented with more guns in the house is extremely naive or flat out ignorant.... you pick.

"Drilling for fear, makes the job simple"

more guns? the home owners didn't even have a gun. yes if they had a shotgun for example & used it well, the story here would be different. yes i suppose then there'd be more guns in the home if only those innocent home owners sleeping in bed had even one gun

unsung

chadwick said:

i don't believe unsung is paranoid living in fear

I avoid troublesome places on purpose, especially when I carry. I go out of my way to avoid risk. I go out of my way to avoid problems.

That said, I'd use whatever means necessary to stop a hostile action that was intended to harm myself or my family. I hope to never find the need to do so.

chadwick

unsung said:

chadwick said:

i don't believe unsung is paranoid living in fear

I avoid troublesome places on purpose, especially when I carry. I go out of my way to avoid risk. I go out of my way to avoid problems.

That said, I'd use whatever means necessary to stop a hostile action that was intended to harm myself or my family. I hope to never find the need to do so.

i am the same way except i don't carry

mikalina

After reading this article, I feel like throwing up. Unless the man slept with a gun tapped to his chest - there's not much that could've been done during this attack in the middle of the night.

My heart goes out to this couple, the pregnant woman and the pain they both endured.

Another simple way to protect our homes is thru deadbolts on every door, make sure windows are locked and secured. Install security systems, there are alarms that will go off if windows are being opened etc.

By doing this, the homeowner will ( hopefully ) have the time to reach for that gun - should you own one.

polaris_x

or maybe live in a society where shooting people is a common occurrence ...

Cosmo

unsung said:

There is zero evidence he had a 100rd mag, in fact the gun recovered at the scene had a standard 30rd mag in it.

...
"(CNN) — The semi-automatic rifle used in the Colorado theater killings jammed during the rampage, apparently because of a problem with the 100-shot magazine feeding it, a law enforcement source with direct knowledge of the investigation said Sunday."
ref. http://fox6now.com/2012/07/22/source-colorado-shooters-rifle-jammed-during-rampage/

"AURORA, CO - Authorities in the Colorado movie theater massacre found an AR-15 rifle drum magazine Friday capable of carrying 100 rounds, according to a law enforcement source working the investigation."
ref. http://www.abc15.com/news/national/source-colorado-shooter-james-holmes-had-100-round-rifle-magazine

""He was just standing there not doing anything, not urgent about anything," Oviatt testified. Police seized a semiautomatic handgun with a laser sight, a semiautomatic shotgun and an AR-15 military assault rifle equipped with a 100-round magazine drum from the scene."
ref. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/08/james-holmes-aurora-hearing/1816875/

"Weapon purchases started in May.
In addition to two canisters, perhaps holding teargas, four weapons were found at the scene, Oates said.

•Two were .40-caliber handguns, made by Glock. At least one of those was used, the police chief said. Holmes had purchased more than 3,000 rounds of .40-caliber ammunition, Oates said.
•One shotgun, a Remington Model 870, one of the most popular models. Pump action, single barrel, 12 gauge, with 300 rounds.
•And one Smith & Wesson AR-15 type rifle, .223 caliber, called by some an "assault rifle." These weapons can accommodate large ammunition clips, and Holmes had one "drum clip" that would have carried more than 100 rounds, Oates said. With that clip, he could have fired 50 to 60 rounds in a minute, even if the rifle was considered semi-automatic, not automatic, Oates said. He had 3,000 rounds of ammunition for this rifle."
ref. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/20/12854157-aurora-suspect-james-holmes-was-buying-guns-dropping-out-of-graduate-school?lite
...
Holmes passed all of the background checks to purchase these weapons, yet, is using an insanity plea in his court case. He was a responsible gun owner until he busted through the doors of that movie theater in Aurora, CO. This is probably an indication that the background checks do not include a lot of information about the buyers.
...
And yes, it is true that the AR-15 jammed after about 45 rounds were unloaded. All that means is that he was able to get off 15 more rounds than he would have... had he only been in possession of a 30 clip. I hope that soothes the fears and anxieties of the victims and their families.

Halifax2TheMax

chadwick said:

myoung321 said:

I feel sorry for anyone that has been programmed to believe guns make them safer.

The idea that horrible crimes such as this could have been prevented with more guns in the house is extremely naive or flat out ignorant.... you pick.

"Drilling for fear, makes the job simple"

more guns? the home owners didn't even have a gun. yes if they had a shotgun for example & used it well, the story here would be different. yes i suppose then there'd be more guns in the home if only those innocent home owners sleeping in bed had even one gun

And if they had a medium to large size dog or two with a loud bark and growl, we wouldn't even be debating this topic as this thread never would have been created.

Peace.

Cosmo

unsung said:

chadwick said:

i don't believe unsung is paranoid living in fear

I avoid troublesome places on purpose, especially when I carry. I go out of my way to avoid risk. I go out of my way to avoid problems.
That said, I'd use whatever means necessary to stop a hostile action that was intended to harm myself or my family. I hope to never find the need to do so.

...
You know what? I do the very same thing... I avoid pinning a 100 dollar bill to my shirt and hanging around Nickerson Gardens housing project in Watts.
I'm all about limiting risk. But, i don't feel the need to own/carry a gun.
With the gun, I would be bringing in all sorts of variables into play. The availability of a gun is a non-hostile action that may result to harm to you or your family. And look inside the data. Check out how many of those gun homicides are committed by someone the victim knew... a family member or friend or acquaintence. Sure, random acts of violence can occur to any of us, but it is more likely you wil have a fight with your spouse or a sibling or a son/daughter or a friend or acquaintence than some random fuck with homocidal intent.
...
For example... How much do you trust your parenting skills? Meaning, do you really believe your kids tell you EVERYTHING that's going in in their lives? I mean, as a teen, i remember keeping all sorts of things I was involved with away from my parents, otherwise, i'd get my ass kicked. Did you tell your parents everything about your teenage life? Did your wife do the same with her parents?
What happens if your kids want to show off your guns, without your knowing, to their friends while you're out at work? Can your kid be trusted? Can your kid's friends be trusted?
And what happens if perscription medications become a part of one of your family member's life? Would you be willing to forfiet your guns if you, your wife or your kid was on a medication with a possible side effect being thoughts of suicide?
There are a lot of things you really need to consider about responsible gun ownership... including the responsible act of giving them up if they pose a threat to yourself or your family.
...
Also... you are never going to be able to defend anyone if you are awoken from a sound sleep by an armed intruder in your bedroom. Get a dog. Burglars hear a barking dog and move to another house.

jmuscatello

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

There is zero evidence he had a 100rd mag, in fact the gun recovered at the scene had a standard 30rd mag in it.

...
"(CNN) — The semi-automatic rifle used in the Colorado theater killings jammed during the rampage, apparently because of a problem with the 100-shot magazine feeding it, a law enforcement source with direct knowledge of the investigation said Sunday."
ref. http://fox6now.com/2012/07/22/source-colorado-shooters-rifle-jammed-during-rampage/

"AURORA, CO - Authorities in the Colorado movie theater massacre found an AR-15 rifle drum magazine Friday capable of carrying 100 rounds, according to a law enforcement source working the investigation."
ref. http://www.abc15.com/news/national/source-colorado-shooter-james-holmes-had-100-round-rifle-magazine

""He was just standing there not doing anything, not urgent about anything," Oviatt testified. Police seized a semiautomatic handgun with a laser sight, a semiautomatic shotgun and an AR-15 military assault rifle equipped with a 100-round magazine drum from the scene."
ref. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/08/james-holmes-aurora-hearing/1816875/

"Weapon purchases started in May.
In addition to two canisters, perhaps holding teargas, four weapons were found at the scene, Oates said.

•Two were .40-caliber handguns, made by Glock. At least one of those was used, the police chief said. Holmes had purchased more than 3,000 rounds of .40-caliber ammunition, Oates said.
•One shotgun, a Remington Model 870, one of the most popular models. Pump action, single barrel, 12 gauge, with 300 rounds.
•And one Smith & Wesson AR-15 type rifle, .223 caliber, called by some an "assault rifle." These weapons can accommodate large ammunition clips, and Holmes had one "drum clip" that would have carried more than 100 rounds, Oates said. With that clip, he could have fired 50 to 60 rounds in a minute, even if the rifle was considered semi-automatic, not automatic, Oates said. He had 3,000 rounds of ammunition for this rifle."
ref. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/20/12854157-aurora-suspect-james-holmes-was-buying-guns-dropping-out-of-graduate-school?lite
...
Holmes passed all of the background checks to purchase these weapons, yet, is using an insanity plea in his court case. He was a responsible gun owner until he busted through the doors of that movie theater in Aurora, CO. This is probably an indication that the background checks do not include a lot of information about the buyers.
...
And yes, it is true that the AR-15 jammed after about 45 rounds were unloaded. All that means is that he was able to get off 15 more rounds than he would have... had he only been in possession of a 30 clip. I hope that soothes the fears and anxieties of the victims and their families.

Thank you for this Cosmo... that doesn't look like "zero evidence" to me. I looked for something to indicate the 100rd mag wasn't actually found in the theatre, and thought about asking that poster for his source, and then decided I just couldn't engage anymore.

But here I go again: 1) from what I've read, each of those extra 15 rounds could (at least theoretically) go through 2 people, and 2) as you show above, Holmes was able to legally purchase all of this weaponry and ammo within a couple of months without raising any red flags. Any wonder the victims' families have been such a presence at the state hearings for magazine size limits and expanded background check legislation?

Cosmo

Here is what a drum mag looks like (display model):

...
Here is what the weapon configuration looks like:

...
The only time i think I would need something like this would be if I wanted to hold off the Anaheim Police Department while barricaded in a brick elementary school... or if I wanted to go on a mass murdering spree so I could be famous.
And you know what... if I was holding off the Anaheim Police Department while barricaded in a brick elementary school or on a mass murdering spree so I could be famous... I should NEVER have been able to get my emotionally unstable hands on them in the first place.

JonnyPistachio

oysterjar said:

rgambs said:

semi-auto shotgun with birdshot is gonna create a better wall of bullets AND it won't make us all as paranoid in public

I was just going to post this. I have shot many different weapons in my life, some for hunting and some for military. I would much rather have my shotgun during a B&E for home defense then an AR, and I have fired thousands of rounds through and M16/M4. To each their own but as far as the AR argument-credibility is built around a viable defense of AR ownership, not just a random act of malicious violence.

I agree too. If I had to guess, the OP argument isnt about using what's most effective or appropriate, but rather about claiming what rights he thinks he deserves to have.

unsung

Rights that I think I deserve to have?

Are you completely dense?

Again, answer this, who are you to determine what rights I get or not?

For all that failed Constitution 101, rights are not granted by government.

unsung

I think I'm going to take a break from this forum, too much Statism makes me want to puke.

JonnyPistachio

unsung said:

Rights that I think I deserve to have?

Are you completely dense?

Again, answer this, who are you to determine what rights I get or not?

For all that failed Constitution 101, rights are not granted by government.

Nope, it looks and sounds like a crusade, thats all. Sounds like I struck a nerve. Sorry. Its just obvious to everyone in here. Maybe you missed my point. You posted an article and suggested you NEED and AR-15 because of it. Then there was some bitching about the govt, and then a defensive suggestion that you thought others think you should "LET you wife get raped."

I could just substitute "NEED" (in all caps) for "deserve," if that makes you happier.
I usually take a break form here because of too much fear, delusions, and absurdity, so maybe I'll do the same. Later..

jmuscatello

unsung said:

I think I'm going to take a break from this forum, too much Statism makes me want to puke.

you spew, you don't back up what you spew, and you get oh-so-bitter when anyone questions or refutes your spew...

mattsl1983

I think there is a huge difference in the words need and deserve. That's me personally though I guess. I would say that the op's use of the word need just added some sensationalism to his point, which is what many anti gun groups do. I'm indifferent, it someone thinks they "need" a gun for protection, that's their prerogative. I'm okay with it. If someone feels they don't "need" a gun, I'm okay with that. I am against leaving it to the federal government to implement gun control changes. I think it should be left up to each state. Texas is completely different than Vermont, and so are the ways in which we grow up doing and are around. Yes I know that's a generalization, and some here will try and say I said everyone. But again, common sense. But I can say AR15's are really fun guns to shoot I must say though. But to each their own. There's a really interesting Vice episode where they sent one of their reporters out to a big gathering of gun supporters, and to the reporters surprise, he really enjoyed shooting many of the guns. I do think that any extremism on either side of the issue tends to cause problems and remove common sense. To many assume that if you have an ar15 you are a gun nut, and if you don't think someone should have one then you are completely against guns. But an interesting fact is that more people die in automobile accidents each year in the US than shooting.