I feel sorry for anyone that has been programmed to believe guns make them safer.
The idea that horrible crimes such as this could have been prevented with more guns in the house is extremely naive or flat out ignorant.... you pick.
"Drilling for fear, makes the job simple"
more guns? the home owners didn't even have a gun. yes if they had a shotgun for example & used it well, the story here would be different. yes i suppose then there'd be more guns in the home if only those innocent home owners sleeping in bed had even one gun
And if they had a medium to large size dog or two with a loud bark and growl, we wouldn't even be debating this topic as this thread never would have been created.
I avoid troublesome places on purpose, especially when I carry. I go out of my way to avoid risk. I go out of my way to avoid problems. That said, I'd use whatever means necessary to stop a hostile action that was intended to harm myself or my family. I hope to never find the need to do so.
... You know what? I do the very same thing... I avoid pinning a 100 dollar bill to my shirt and hanging around Nickerson Gardens housing project in Watts. I'm all about limiting risk. But, i don't feel the need to own/carry a gun. With the gun, I would be bringing in all sorts of variables into play. The availability of a gun is a non-hostile action that may result to harm to you or your family. And look inside the data. Check out how many of those gun homicides are committed by someone the victim knew... a family member or friend or acquaintence. Sure, random acts of violence can occur to any of us, but it is more likely you wil have a fight with your spouse or a sibling or a son/daughter or a friend or acquaintence than some random fuck with homocidal intent. ... For example... How much do you trust your parenting skills? Meaning, do you really believe your kids tell you EVERYTHING that's going in in their lives? I mean, as a teen, i remember keeping all sorts of things I was involved with away from my parents, otherwise, i'd get my ass kicked. Did you tell your parents everything about your teenage life? Did your wife do the same with her parents? What happens if your kids want to show off your guns, without your knowing, to their friends while you're out at work? Can your kid be trusted? Can your kid's friends be trusted? And what happens if perscription medications become a part of one of your family member's life? Would you be willing to forfiet your guns if you, your wife or your kid was on a medication with a possible side effect being thoughts of suicide? There are a lot of things you really need to consider about responsible gun ownership... including the responsible act of giving them up if they pose a threat to yourself or your family. ... Also... you are never going to be able to defend anyone if you are awoken from a sound sleep by an armed intruder in your bedroom. Get a dog. Burglars hear a barking dog and move to another house.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
There is zero evidence he had a 100rd mag, in fact the gun recovered at the scene had a standard 30rd mag in it.
... "(CNN) — The semi-automatic rifle used in the Colorado theater killings jammed during the rampage, apparently because of a problem with the 100-shot magazine feeding it, a law enforcement source with direct knowledge of the investigation said Sunday." ref. http://fox6now.com/2012/07/22/source-colorado-shooters-rifle-jammed-during-rampage/
""He was just standing there not doing anything, not urgent about anything," Oviatt testified. Police seized a semiautomatic handgun with a laser sight, a semiautomatic shotgun and an AR-15 military assault rifle equipped with a 100-round magazine drum from the scene." ref. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/08/james-holmes-aurora-hearing/1816875/
"Weapon purchases started in May. In addition to two canisters, perhaps holding teargas, four weapons were found at the scene, Oates said.
•Two were .40-caliber handguns, made by Glock. At least one of those was used, the police chief said. Holmes had purchased more than 3,000 rounds of .40-caliber ammunition, Oates said. •One shotgun, a Remington Model 870, one of the most popular models. Pump action, single barrel, 12 gauge, with 300 rounds. •And one Smith & Wesson AR-15 type rifle, .223 caliber, called by some an "assault rifle." These weapons can accommodate large ammunition clips, and Holmes had one "drum clip" that would have carried more than 100 rounds, Oates said. With that clip, he could have fired 50 to 60 rounds in a minute, even if the rifle was considered semi-automatic, not automatic, Oates said. He had 3,000 rounds of ammunition for this rifle." ref. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/20/12854157-aurora-suspect-james-holmes-was-buying-guns-dropping-out-of-graduate-school?lite ... Holmes passed all of the background checks to purchase these weapons, yet, is using an insanity plea in his court case. He was a responsible gun owner until he busted through the doors of that movie theater in Aurora, CO. This is probably an indication that the background checks do not include a lot of information about the buyers. ... And yes, it is true that the AR-15 jammed after about 45 rounds were unloaded. All that means is that he was able to get off 15 more rounds than he would have... had he only been in possession of a 30 clip. I hope that soothes the fears and anxieties of the victims and their families.
Thank you for this Cosmo... that doesn't look like "zero evidence" to me. I looked for something to indicate the 100rd mag wasn't actually found in the theatre, and thought about asking that poster for his source, and then decided I just couldn't engage anymore.
But here I go again: 1) from what I've read, each of those extra 15 rounds could (at least theoretically) go through 2 people, and 2) as you show above, Holmes was able to legally purchase all of this weaponry and ammo within a couple of months without raising any red flags. Any wonder the victims' families have been such a presence at the state hearings for magazine size limits and expanded background check legislation?
Here is what a drum mag looks like (display model): ... Here is what the weapon configuration looks like: ... The only time i think I would need something like this would be if I wanted to hold off the Anaheim Police Department while barricaded in a brick elementary school... or if I wanted to go on a mass murdering spree so I could be famous. And you know what... if I was holding off the Anaheim Police Department while barricaded in a brick elementary school or on a mass murdering spree so I could be famous... I should NEVER have been able to get my emotionally unstable hands on them in the first place.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
semi-auto shotgun with birdshot is gonna create a better wall of bullets AND it won't make us all as paranoid in public
I was just going to post this. I have shot many different weapons in my life, some for hunting and some for military. I would much rather have my shotgun during a B&E for home defense then an AR, and I have fired thousands of rounds through and M16/M4. To each their own but as far as the AR argument-credibility is built around a viable defense of AR ownership, not just a random act of malicious violence.
I agree too. If I had to guess, the OP argument isnt about using what's most effective or appropriate, but rather about claiming what rights he thinks he deserves to have.
Again, answer this, who are you to determine what rights I get or not?
For all that failed Constitution 101, rights are not granted by government.
Nope, it looks and sounds like a crusade, thats all. Sounds like I struck a nerve. Sorry. Its just obvious to everyone in here. Maybe you missed my point. You posted an article and suggested you NEED and AR-15 because of it. Then there was some bitching about the govt, and then a defensive suggestion that you thought others think you should "LET you wife get raped."
I could just substitute "NEED" (in all caps) for "deserve," if that makes you happier. I usually take a break form here because of too much fear, delusions, and absurdity, so maybe I'll do the same. Later..
I think there is a huge difference in the words need and deserve. That's me personally though I guess. I would say that the op's use of the word need just added some sensationalism to his point, which is what many anti gun groups do. I'm indifferent, it someone thinks they "need" a gun for protection, that's their prerogative. I'm okay with it. If someone feels they don't "need" a gun, I'm okay with that. I am against leaving it to the federal government to implement gun control changes. I think it should be left up to each state. Texas is completely different than Vermont, and so are the ways in which we grow up doing and are around. Yes I know that's a generalization, and some here will try and say I said everyone. But again, common sense. But I can say AR15's are really fun guns to shoot I must say though. But to each their own. There's a really interesting Vice episode where they sent one of their reporters out to a big gathering of gun supporters, and to the reporters surprise, he really enjoyed shooting many of the guns. I do think that any extremism on either side of the issue tends to cause problems and remove common sense. To many assume that if you have an ar15 you are a gun nut, and if you don't think someone should have one then you are completely against guns. But an interesting fact is that more people die in automobile accidents each year in the US than shooting.
PORTER HEIGHTS, Texas - A Houston firefighter is dead after a woman who opened fire says that firefighter was trying to break into her Montgomery County home.
The woman says she had no idea he was a firefighter, and says she had no idea that the man she heard trying to get inside of her front door was her next-door neighbor.
Detectives thought it was odd that if it was an attempted break-in, there was no evidence of a getaway car. But that's because the man's vehicle was parked in his driveway. Keen was the woman's next door neighbor.
Investigators say earlier on St. Patrick's Day he was at a bar with friends and took a cab ride home. Unfortunately, the 27-year-old husband never made it home.
Sucks to walk up to the wrong house drunk. Visiting freinds one time, walked out to car.....cookie cutter neighborhood and went back to wrong house...walked in...thankfully they weren't armed and shot me.
I think I'm going to take a break from this forum, too much Statism makes me want to puke.
... Maybe you need to take a break... settle down, if it is going to boil your blood. ... And i don't know abot the Statism comment. Most of us here distrust the government (the State) at large... but, we know it is the mechanism that is in place in order to make us safe. The Police and Fire Departments are paid by all of us, so they are supposed to treat us all equally. Let's not get side tracked on the police thing... it was used purely as an example. We HAVE to turn to the state when an overall solution is required. Who else is going to solve this gun issue? Gun Manufacturers and sellers? The NRA? The people? No... Gun makers want to make money selling guns... they will sell directly to Al qaeda if it were up to them. And the people... yeah... there's a solution. You want to buy as many types of gun in any numbers as you choose and I think that's a bad idea. Who's decision counts? I don't know what type of society you envision without a central government... anarchy like Somalia? What? All we want is some thing to be done to reduce the risk of some other nut with a high capacity gun, cutting down shoppers at the mall. That's all. We don't know how to do it, but we know whatever is being done and not being done isn't helping. ... Again... take a break... quit watching t.v. Quit listening to AM Talk Radio... stop scouring the Internet for articles about gun violence. Listen to your iPod, instead. I also think you definately need to move... you make it sound like you live inside of a Grand Theft Auto game. We don't want to hear any news items about you on our local evening news. Think... Zen...
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I think there is a huge difference in the words need and deserve. That's me personally though I guess. I would say that the op's use of the word need just added some sensationalism to his point, which is what many anti gun groups do. I'm indifferent, it someone thinks they "need" a gun for protection, that's their prerogative. I'm okay with it. If someone feels they don't "need" a gun, I'm okay with that. I am against leaving it to the federal government to implement gun control changes. I think it should be left up to each state. Texas is completely different than Vermont, and so are the ways in which we grow up doing and are around. Yes I know that's a generalization, and some here will try and say I said everyone. But again, common sense. But I can say AR15's are really fun guns to shoot I must say though. But to each their own. There's a really interesting Vice episode where they sent one of their reporters out to a big gathering of gun supporters, and to the reporters surprise, he really enjoyed shooting many of the guns. I do think that any extremism on either side of the issue tends to cause problems and remove common sense. To many assume that if you have an ar15 you are a gun nut, and if you don't think someone should have one then you are completely against guns. But an interesting fact is that more people die in automobile accidents each year in the US than shooting.
... I agree you you. I think the states should decide on small arms weapons, but we need an overall definition of what small arms weapons are. I mean, you can legally buy a tank if you want... but, you will need to file a ton of federal paperwork if you want the guns operational. We really don't want just any yahoo to be able to buy explosive ordinances at the local Wal-Mart, right? ... The only thing I disagree with is trying to compare guns to cars. My guess is that there are more people that own a car, than own a gun. And I'm also guessing that people who who own both cars and guns, don't use their gun as often as their cars.
Think about it... how many people do you know that owns a car? How many people do you know own guns? Is this statement true... "Every person I know that owns a car, also owns a gun" Next... How often do all of those people you know that own a car... use that car? How often do the people you know that own guns, fire those guns? If everyone that you know that owns a car... also owned a gun... and if everyone fired their guns as often as they use their cars... do you think those gun/car statistics would change? ... It also works the opposite way.... if number of car owners was equal to the number of gun owners... and the usage of their cars was the same as the usage of their guns... would the number of auto accidents decrease? If they increased their gun usage to equal the amount of time they spend operating their car... would the number of gun death increase? ... Anyway... you make good points... I just suggest that you may want to drop the cars vs. guns thing. Statistics are great... but, people cannot compare them in order to attain the conclusion they have already decided on. Compare the number of deaths by hand gun vs. rifle... or the death rates between sports cars and SUVs. Those comparisons are valid based on the silarities in the type of data. It's that old addage about comparing Apples an Wombats... they don't equate.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I just see excuse after excuse. I can proudly say I have never owned or felt the need to own a gun..... I lived in L.A. for 25 or so years and in a Tornado Alley "Red State" for the last ten.... The more guns mentality obviously doesn't help our society, look at the facts, crime rates, suicide, accidental shootings..etc etc... the facts show owning a gun puts you in higher danger.
In my opinion, anyone that ties SAFETY, FREEDOM~AMERICA to owning a gun is delusional.
I feel much safer walking the streets in Europe than I do in my own US cities,,,, hmmmm those citizens sure seem to be Free
Owning a gun for legal hunting, I have no issues with... even if I wouldn't do it.
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
@cosmo, I know we've talked about this before but the cars point is one issue i completely disagree with you on. personally I don't see how you can't compare the two. I look at your last post and what comes to my mind first....is that cosmo is rationalizing the deaths of people killed by cars. I feel like (from your post) that a person killed in a car wreck doesn't start to become important to you until they meet a quota. I feel like you're taking a certain group of people(people killed by guns) and saying that they are more important than everyone else. for me, at the end of the day, cars are exactly like guns. they are inanimate objects used by people to kill other people. the fact that most are accidents and not by a machine "designed to kill" doesn't change the fact that they're dead. dead is dead yo. that being said when I hear people say we have to do "whatever it takes" if we "save one life it's worth it" for guns, if you don't have that same attitude for cars, then imo you're reason for being anti gun is because you don't like guns and not because you do like human life so much. i just don't understand how people who care about human life so much, scoff at the idea of doing whatever it takes to save lives even if it just saves one life, when it has to do with cars. just to put it in perspective to see how most of you come across to me.....if i came on here and said how i just bought a kickass assault rifle with these money high cap mags and then said oh by the way, tobacco kills, alcohol kills, steak knives kill and cars kill. you guys are callous heartless assholes for not doing whatever it takes to save those lives. anyone wanna go shoot? what would you think about that? would you think i was a hypocrite?
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
We need transportation, cars. We don't need guns. Cars are getting safer and safer, guns are going in the opposite direction. The car comparison is a red herring. Humans can 't handle the responsibility of guns. More guns more senseless killing. My article above is classic example of human that couldn't handle a gun. Yesterday, close to my house, ex and current boyfriend of chick got into argument, loser went to his truck, came back and shot other dude. This will continue.
We need transportation, cars. We don't need guns. Cars are getting safer and safer, guns are going in the opposite direction. The car comparison is a red herring. Humans can 't handle the responsibility of guns. More guns more senseless killing. My article above is classic example of human that couldn't handle a gun. Yesterday, close to my house, ex and current boyfriend of chick got into argument, loser went to his truck, came back and shot other dude. This will continue.
Callen,
The questions I about to ask are not to be an asshole. I am just looking for the other sides opinion. I myself am wondering what can be done to make the U.S. more safe while allowing people to still own guns.
Why do you think that the second amendment states that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I think Cosmo's point was that it's essentially impossible to compare guns to cars statistically. Driving a car requires licensing and registration, which I think most of us can agree is appropriate. Not so for firearms?
@callen for one, we don't need cars. the only thing we "need" is oxygen, water, food, and sleep. cars came about in the early 1900's i think. people survived long long before the advent of the automobile. not only that but the horse and saddle industry was too big to fail imo but that's another topic. by your post, it feels like your opinion is that the tens of thousands of people killed by cars every year is an acceptable loss so that we can get to work or the store in a short amount of time. it's funny you say people can't handle the responsibility of guns, yet just in the U.S. literally tens of thousands humans dead and countless more animals dead every year. if that isn't people not handling the responsibility of owning a car then i don't know what is.
@jm yeah i see what you mean, i guess the assumption is that if you buy a gun you're keeping it in your house. there is licensing to carry out in public though. a very thorough background check by the fbi, class hours and range time.
if you think what I believe is stupid, bizarre, ridiculous or outrageous.....it's ok, I think I had a brain tumor when I wrote that.
I completely agree with Cosmo too. Simply because of the intended uses of each object. A gun is a weapon. A car is transportation. And we do need cars more than we need guns.
Yes, a lot of people die in car accidents every year, but if an intersection is prone to accidents, they might add a stop light. If a highway is prone to accidents, they might reduce the speed limit. With guns, it seems like people just demand that they deserve the right to own the most powerful weapon they want with enormous magazine capacities just because they dont want the government telling them what they can do. Personally, I'd love to drive 120 miles an hour to work everyday. I bet i'd be fine. But I'm glad the laws are there to limits the speed of the other hooligans that would kill everyone on the raod if there were no limits.
The car-gun analogy just doesnt work very well. Too many disconnected variables.
when you drive a car you accept the risk of that action knowingly and willingly. When you go out into public you don't know who is a gun threat, and you don't accept the risk of your own free will. Backing this cars = guns line of thought exposes your desire to defend guns, not to think of things in the terms in which they exist.
Jmuscattelo, I would ask you, not being a dick here, but will a car still operate if it's not registered or a driver goes to use it without a drivers license? If a car is registered and gets stolen, does it no longer work? I ask because the registering and licensing of guns to me solves nothing. It will just generate a flow of money to the government.
On this cars vs guns deal...in the end, it comes down to the responsibility, presence of mind, awareness, not being reckless, drunk, wasted, pissed off...on the part of the user of either - of anything. And if guns can be registered for purposes of accountability, tracking - like with automobiles - why not? Plus, the extra income could do some good (assuming it's routed appropriately and not frittered away).
Aside - I almost got plowed by a truck at an intersection yesterday. I had the right of way and the dude just cruised on through a firm red light...while SMILING.
I don't think you're being a dick, mattsl1983. I understand that argument, but the way I see it, being able to trace a stolen vehicle via registration is a pretty valuable thing, as is being able to trace ownership of a gun used in a crime, or even to get a gun away from someone whose legal or mental health status has changed and whose gun ownership is now prohibited. And I know some would make the argument that registration and licensing is just a way to impose taxation.... to me, that taxation is worthwhile. Just as I will gladly pay additional taxes on legal marijuana purchases because I think legal regulation is helpful to that industry and public health safety. I know people will say that it's taking away rights/privacy to have to register a gun, I know the NRA has coached it's members that registration is the first step towards confiscation. While I don't dispute anyone's constitutional right to bear arms, I guess I'm saying that gun ownership, in our society today, should require some accountability. The lack of regulation is not working - just my opinion.
I think there is a huge difference in the words need and deserve. That's me personally though I guess. I would say that the op's use of the word need just added some sensationalism to his point, which is what many anti gun groups do. I'm indifferent, it someone thinks they "need" a gun for protection, that's their prerogative. I'm okay with it. If someone feels they don't "need" a gun, I'm okay with that. I am against leaving it to the federal government to implement gun control changes. I think it should be left up to each state. Texas is completely different than Vermont, and so are the ways in which we grow up doing and are around. Yes I know that's a generalization, and some here will try and say I said everyone. But again, common sense. But I can say AR15's are really fun guns to shoot I must say though. But to each their own. There's a really interesting Vice episode where they sent one of their reporters out to a big gathering of gun supporters, and to the reporters surprise, he really enjoyed shooting many of the guns. I do think that any extremism on either side of the issue tends to cause problems and remove common sense. To many assume that if you have an ar15 you are a gun nut, and if you don't think someone should have one then you are completely against guns. But an interesting fact is that more people die in automobile accidents each year in the US than shooting.
We need transportation, cars. We don't need guns. Cars are getting safer and safer, guns are going in the opposite direction. The car comparison is a red herring. Humans can 't handle the responsibility of guns. More guns more senseless killing. My article above is classic example of human that couldn't handle a gun. Yesterday, close to my house, ex and current boyfriend of chick got into argument, loser went to his truck, came back and shot other dude. This will continue.
Callen,
The questions I about to ask are not to be an asshole. I am just looking for the other sides opinion. I myself am wondering what can be done to make the U.S. more safe while allowing people to still own guns.
Why do you think that the second amendment states that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Oysterjar:
Have read your posts and wouldn’t take offense, plus love Oysters on half shell.
Understand and empathize with framers for adding second amendment. I though don’t regard the constitution as an inflexible document that is infallible and can’t be changed. With that said, I still at this time, support an individual’s right to protect themselves. But see this gun culture of bigger and better firearms to protect themselves from the “Evildoers’” a vicious cycle that will just lead to more and more deaths.
How do we make it safer…don’t believe there is a way. Bad people will pass background checks and even “good” people have emotions that compromise being rational, as what happened to the lady that killed the drunk firefighter. This will happen more and more. Think we have lots of school shootings now…just wait. Home burglaries will continue along with F350 dually’s broken into and guns stolen. Likely the F350 will have a “Obama Suck” bumper sticker and the peace sign made out of a B1 Bomber.
Soon we’ll have open carry so don’t look at that guys girl wrong…or don’t be disrespecting…cause you may get shot.
My rights of being able to safely walk down the street is being infringed by others right to bear arms. Crazy.
From the data I was able to find (I'm at the airport so didn't really dig that deep) I could find that there are an estimated 45 million to 55 million gun owners in the US. According to the FBI there were 8,855 deaths due to fire arms in 2012 (most recent year I could find). I took the average (50 million) owners and rounded the FBI report up to 10,000 deaths for fire arms to make the math easier. That leaves %0.0002 of estimated gun owners that are responsible for the killing of someone else. I would have to say that the overwhelmingly majority of gun owners are indeed responsible. In my opinion, I do not see the 2nd amendment and guns as the issue. I would investigate the why's and break down the deaths to if it was self defense, drug related, mental illness, ect ect. Then I would start addressing those issues instead of just blaming guns as a whole.
I just don't see the idea of how soon everyone will have a gun and there will be shootings on every block due to random arguments. And also with the Ar15, the gun that anti gun groups seem should be illegal, is a riffle. And if you look at the link below (from the FBI website) you can see that there were more deaths from knives, or blunt objects, or personal weapons than riffles (including the ar15) in 2012. I was actually a bit surprised at that, and I wish the 2013 stats were up.
Comments
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
You know what? I do the very same thing... I avoid pinning a 100 dollar bill to my shirt and hanging around Nickerson Gardens housing project in Watts.
I'm all about limiting risk. But, i don't feel the need to own/carry a gun.
With the gun, I would be bringing in all sorts of variables into play. The availability of a gun is a non-hostile action that may result to harm to you or your family. And look inside the data. Check out how many of those gun homicides are committed by someone the victim knew... a family member or friend or acquaintence. Sure, random acts of violence can occur to any of us, but it is more likely you wil have a fight with your spouse or a sibling or a son/daughter or a friend or acquaintence than some random fuck with homocidal intent.
...
For example... How much do you trust your parenting skills? Meaning, do you really believe your kids tell you EVERYTHING that's going in in their lives? I mean, as a teen, i remember keeping all sorts of things I was involved with away from my parents, otherwise, i'd get my ass kicked. Did you tell your parents everything about your teenage life? Did your wife do the same with her parents?
What happens if your kids want to show off your guns, without your knowing, to their friends while you're out at work? Can your kid be trusted? Can your kid's friends be trusted?
And what happens if perscription medications become a part of one of your family member's life? Would you be willing to forfiet your guns if you, your wife or your kid was on a medication with a possible side effect being thoughts of suicide?
There are a lot of things you really need to consider about responsible gun ownership... including the responsible act of giving them up if they pose a threat to yourself or your family.
...
Also... you are never going to be able to defend anyone if you are awoken from a sound sleep by an armed intruder in your bedroom. Get a dog. Burglars hear a barking dog and move to another house.
Hail, Hail!!!
But here I go again: 1) from what I've read, each of those extra 15 rounds could (at least theoretically) go through 2 people, and 2) as you show above, Holmes was able to legally purchase all of this weaponry and ammo within a couple of months without raising any red flags. Any wonder the victims' families have been such a presence at the state hearings for magazine size limits and expanded background check legislation?
...
Here is what the weapon configuration looks like:
...
The only time i think I would need something like this would be if I wanted to hold off the Anaheim Police Department while barricaded in a brick elementary school... or if I wanted to go on a mass murdering spree so I could be famous.
And you know what... if I was holding off the Anaheim Police Department while barricaded in a brick elementary school or on a mass murdering spree so I could be famous... I should NEVER have been able to get my emotionally unstable hands on them in the first place.
Hail, Hail!!!
Are you completely dense?
Again, answer this, who are you to determine what rights I get or not?
For all that failed Constitution 101, rights are not granted by government.
I could just substitute "NEED" (in all caps) for "deserve," if that makes you happier.
I usually take a break form here because of too much fear, delusions, and absurdity, so maybe I'll do the same. Later..
The woman says she had no idea he was a firefighter, and says she had no idea that the man she heard trying to get inside of her front door was her next-door neighbor.
Detectives thought it was odd that if it was an attempted break-in, there was no evidence of a getaway car. But that's because the man's vehicle was parked in his driveway. Keen was the woman's next door neighbor.
Investigators say earlier on St. Patrick's Day he was at a bar with friends and took a cab ride home. Unfortunately, the 27-year-old husband never made it home.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/woman-shoots-kills-firefighter-trying-to-break-into-her-home/25029960
Sucks to walk up to the wrong house drunk. Visiting freinds one time, walked out to car.....cookie cutter neighborhood and went back to wrong house...walked in...thankfully they weren't armed and shot me.
Maybe you need to take a break... settle down, if it is going to boil your blood.
...
And i don't know abot the Statism comment. Most of us here distrust the government (the State) at large... but, we know it is the mechanism that is in place in order to make us safe. The Police and Fire Departments are paid by all of us, so they are supposed to treat us all equally. Let's not get side tracked on the police thing... it was used purely as an example.
We HAVE to turn to the state when an overall solution is required. Who else is going to solve this gun issue? Gun Manufacturers and sellers? The NRA? The people? No... Gun makers want to make money selling guns... they will sell directly to Al qaeda if it were up to them. And the people... yeah... there's a solution. You want to buy as many types of gun in any numbers as you choose and I think that's a bad idea. Who's decision counts?
I don't know what type of society you envision without a central government... anarchy like Somalia? What?
All we want is some thing to be done to reduce the risk of some other nut with a high capacity gun, cutting down shoppers at the mall. That's all. We don't know how to do it, but we know whatever is being done and not being done isn't helping.
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Again... take a break... quit watching t.v. Quit listening to AM Talk Radio... stop scouring the Internet for articles about gun violence. Listen to your iPod, instead. I also think you definately need to move... you make it sound like you live inside of a Grand Theft Auto game. We don't want to hear any news items about you on our local evening news.
Think... Zen...
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree you you. I think the states should decide on small arms weapons, but we need an overall definition of what small arms weapons are. I mean, you can legally buy a tank if you want... but, you will need to file a ton of federal paperwork if you want the guns operational. We really don't want just any yahoo to be able to buy explosive ordinances at the local Wal-Mart, right?
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The only thing I disagree with is trying to compare guns to cars.
My guess is that there are more people that own a car, than own a gun.
And I'm also guessing that people who who own both cars and guns, don't use their gun as often as their cars.
Think about it... how many people do you know that owns a car?
How many people do you know own guns?
Is this statement true... "Every person I know that owns a car, also owns a gun"
Next...
How often do all of those people you know that own a car... use that car?
How often do the people you know that own guns, fire those guns?
If everyone that you know that owns a car... also owned a gun... and if everyone fired their guns as often as they use their cars... do you think those gun/car statistics would change?
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It also works the opposite way.... if number of car owners was equal to the number of gun owners... and the usage of their cars was the same as the usage of their guns... would the number of auto accidents decrease? If they increased their gun usage to equal the amount of time they spend operating their car... would the number of gun death increase?
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Anyway... you make good points... I just suggest that you may want to drop the cars vs. guns thing. Statistics are great... but, people cannot compare them in order to attain the conclusion they have already decided on. Compare the number of deaths by hand gun vs. rifle... or the death rates between sports cars and SUVs. Those comparisons are valid based on the silarities in the type of data. It's that old addage about comparing Apples an Wombats... they don't equate.
Hail, Hail!!!
In my opinion, anyone that ties SAFETY, FREEDOM~AMERICA to owning a gun is delusional.
I feel much safer walking the streets in Europe than I do in my own US cities,,,, hmmmm those citizens sure seem to be Free
Owning a gun for legal hunting, I have no issues with... even if I wouldn't do it.
for me, at the end of the day, cars are exactly like guns. they are inanimate objects used by people to kill other people. the fact that most are accidents and not by a machine "designed to kill" doesn't change the fact that they're dead. dead is dead yo.
that being said when I hear people say we have to do "whatever it takes" if we "save one life it's worth it" for guns, if you don't have that same attitude for cars, then imo you're reason for being anti gun is because you don't like guns and not because you do like human life so much.
i just don't understand how people who care about human life so much, scoff at the idea of doing whatever it takes to save lives even if it just saves one life, when it has to do with cars.
just to put it in perspective to see how most of you come across to me.....if i came on here and said how i just bought a kickass assault rifle with these money high cap mags and then said oh by the way, tobacco kills, alcohol kills, steak knives kill and cars kill. you guys are callous heartless assholes for not doing whatever it takes to save those lives. anyone wanna go shoot? what would you think about that? would you think i was a hypocrite?
The questions I about to ask are not to be an asshole. I am just looking for the other sides opinion. I myself am wondering what can be done to make the U.S. more safe while allowing people to still own guns.
Why do you think that the second amendment states that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Wind this thing up.
Driving a car requires licensing and registration, which I think most of us can agree is appropriate. Not so for firearms?
for one, we don't need cars. the only thing we "need" is oxygen, water, food, and sleep. cars came about in the early 1900's i think. people survived long long before the advent of the automobile. not only that but the horse and saddle industry was too big to fail imo but that's another topic.
by your post, it feels like your opinion is that the tens of thousands of people killed by cars every year is an acceptable loss so that we can get to work or the store in a short amount of time. it's funny you say people can't handle the responsibility of guns, yet just in the U.S. literally tens of thousands humans dead and countless more animals dead every year. if that isn't people not handling the responsibility of owning a car then i don't know what is.
@jm yeah i see what you mean, i guess the assumption is that if you buy a gun you're keeping it in your house. there is licensing to carry out in public though. a very thorough background check by the fbi, class hours and range time.
Yes, a lot of people die in car accidents every year, but if an intersection is prone to accidents, they might add a stop light. If a highway is prone to accidents, they might reduce the speed limit. With guns, it seems like people just demand that they deserve the right to own the most powerful weapon they want with enormous magazine capacities just because they dont want the government telling them what they can do. Personally, I'd love to drive 120 miles an hour to work everyday. I bet i'd be fine. But I'm glad the laws are there to limits the speed of the other hooligans that would kill everyone on the raod if there were no limits.
The car-gun analogy just doesnt work very well. Too many disconnected variables.
Aside - I almost got plowed by a truck at an intersection yesterday. I had the right of way and the dude just cruised on through a firm red light...while SMILING.
Have read your posts and wouldn’t take offense, plus love Oysters on half shell.
Understand and empathize with framers for adding second amendment. I though don’t regard the constitution as an inflexible document that is infallible and can’t be changed. With that said, I still at this time, support an individual’s right to protect themselves. But see this gun culture of bigger and better firearms to protect themselves from the “Evildoers’” a vicious cycle that will just lead to more and more deaths.
How do we make it safer…don’t believe there is a way. Bad people will pass background checks and even “good” people have emotions that compromise being rational, as what happened to the lady that killed the drunk firefighter. This will happen more and more. Think we have lots of school shootings now…just wait. Home burglaries will continue along with F350 dually’s broken into and guns stolen. Likely the F350 will have a “Obama Suck” bumper sticker and the peace sign made out of a B1 Bomber.
Soon we’ll have open carry so don’t look at that guys girl wrong…or don’t be disrespecting…cause you may get shot.
My rights of being able to safely walk down the street is being infringed by others right to bear arms. Crazy.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2008-2012.xls