This is why I NEED an AR-15 with 30rd mags

brianlux

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

goingtoverona said:

is it weird to wanna stockpile all sorts of shit and learn how to live off the grid and off your own land after watching the walking dead?

I think it's a little paranoid for sure.

But movies like The Road make a guy pause for thought.

People should be able to take care of themselves. Since when did that become paranoia? We saw what happened during Katrina, am I supposed to let that happen to me?

If something happened the grocery stores would be out of food in a day. Geez, people fight and maim others over saving a few bucks on shitty electronics on Black Friday. You think that they wouldn't do worse if they were starving???

Unsung,

Come on. Making some preparations is fine, but stockpiling for a pending apocalyptic disaster is a little excessive- don't you think?

In the event the world goes for a shit... I would think for the most part, people would bond together and work with each other to gain some semblance of a decent life. I do not think it would be as cutthroat as you suggest.

Edit: We have seen humanity at its finest in our darkest hours such as people running into the trade center or towards the explosions in Boston. In general, people are good.

Quite honestly, making thread after thread about guns and anger toward cops does seem a little paranoid. Surely there other things to think and write about, no?

JonnyPistachio

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

goingtoverona said:

is it weird to wanna stockpile all sorts of shit and learn how to live off the grid and off your own land after watching the walking dead?

I think it's a little paranoid for sure.

But movies like The Road make a guy pause for thought.

People should be able to take care of themselves. Since when did that become paranoia? We saw what happened during Katrina, am I supposed to let that happen to me?

If something happened the grocery stores would be out of food in a day. Geez, people fight and maim others over saving a few bucks on shitty electronics on Black Friday. You think that they wouldn't do worse if they were starving???

Unsung,

Come on. Making some preparations is fine, but stockpiling for a pending apocalyptic disaster is a little excessive- don't you think?

In the event the world goes for a shit... I would think for the most part, people would bond together and work with each other to gain some semblance of a decent life. I do not think it would be as cutthroat as you suggest.

Edit: We have seen humanity at its finest in our darkest hours such as people running into the trade center or towards the explosions in Boston. In general, people are good.

30 bills, while it was nowhere near the devastation of Katrina, I was living in FLorida when two hurricanes (I think it was 2005) came through and fucked up our neighborhood pretty bad. I was without power for a month. Gasoline was hard to come by, and I hardly showered. I ate crappy canned food a lot. I dont think people relized how bad it was becasue monetarily it wasnt too bad...living life was bad though. After the initial few days, people did start working together. It was a bit stressful at first, but it was a nice feeling later to see people collaborating. I would hope that we learned something from Katrina, and not to say that couldnt happen again, but I agree with you that in the face of disaster, people will hopefully band together.

The thing is, its virtually impossible tat the entire northern american continent could suffer the same devastaiton all over...unless a meteor comes, so people in other areas usually get food and supplies to people pretty quickly when in need.

Cosmo

unsung said:

People should be able to take care of themselves. Since when did that become paranoia? We saw what happened during Katrina, am I supposed to let that happen to me?

If something happened the grocery stores would be out of food in a day. Geez, people fight and maim others over saving a few bucks on shitty electronics on Black Friday. You think that they wouldn't do worse if they were starving???

...
There is a difference between being prepared for something such as Hurricanes or Earthquakes and building a fortress to hold off plundering hoards.
...
And my advice concering this question, 'We saw what happened during Katrina, am I supposed to let that happen to me?'... evacuate, because your fortess becomes useless when it is under 8 feet of water.

chadwick

mnbvcdfrgthyjukl;' jhjjhuyytrrdswas kjjjhj jhk nghghh hggjk kjgbfvdfrft l,l,kjmnh bnbvfcfsggjk jbhhyyt

JonnyPistachio said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

goingtoverona said:

is it weird to wanna stockpile all sorts of shit and learn how to live off the grid and off your own land after watching the walking dead?

I think it's a little paranoid for sure.

But movies like The Road make a guy pause for thought.

People should be able to take care of themselves. Since when did that become paranoia? We saw what happened during Katrina, am I supposed to let that happen to me?

If something happened the grocery stores would be out of food in a day. Geez, people fight and maim others over saving a few bucks on shitty electronics on Black Friday. You think that they wouldn't do worse if they were starving???

Unsung,

Come on. Making some preparations is fine, but stockpiling for a pending apocalyptic disaster is a little excessive- don't you think?

In the event the world goes for a shit... I would think for the most part, people would bond together and work with each other to gain some semblance of a decent life. I do not think it would be as cutthroat as you suggest.

Edit: We have seen humanity at its finest in our darkest hours such as people running into the trade center or towards the explosions in Boston. In general, people are good.

30 bills, while it was nowhere near the devastation of Katrina, I was living in FLorida when two hurricanes (I think it was 2005) came through and fucked up our neighborhood pretty bad. I was without power for a month. Gasoline was hard to come by, and I hardly showered. I ate crappy canned food a lot. I dont think people relized how bad it was becasue monetarily it wasnt too bad...living life was bad though. After the initial few days, people did start working together. It was a bit stressful at first, but it was a nice feeling later to see people collaborating. I would hope that we learned something from Katrina, and not to say that couldnt happen again, but I agree with you that in the face of disaster, people will hopefully band together.

The thing is, its virtually impossible tat the entire northern american continent could suffer the same devastaiton all over...unless a meteor comes, so people in other areas usually get food and supplies to people pretty quickly when in need.

anyone throw some fishin poles into the drink? how about scootin into the everglades for a gator & deer hunt? before i go hungry in a disaster like a hurricane or what have you, i'm gettin into the woods or swamp & i'm grillin me a gator or deer

you all have citrus groves
i'm trespassing & taking some citrus

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

goingtoverona said:

is it weird to wanna stockpile all sorts of shit and learn how to live off the grid and off your own land after watching the walking dead?

I think it's a little paranoid for sure.

But movies like The Road make a guy pause for thought.

People should be able to take care of themselves. Since when did that become paranoia? We saw what happened during Katrina, am I supposed to let that happen to me?

If something happened the grocery stores would be out of food in a day. Geez, people fight and maim others over saving a few bucks on shitty electronics on Black Friday. You think that they wouldn't do worse if they were starving???

Unsung,

Come on. Making some preparations is fine, but stockpiling for a pending apocalyptic disaster is a little excessive- don't you think?

In the event the world goes for a shit... I would think for the most part, people would bond together and work with each other to gain some semblance of a decent life. I do not think it would be as cutthroat as you suggest.

Edit: We have seen humanity at its finest in our darkest hours such as people running into the trade center or towards the explosions in Boston. In general, people are good.

most disagree...if you live in the country you will be fine but in any kind of serious collapse major cities will erupt in ultra-violence. We have seen our finest in dark hours, yes, but in the normal light of everyday a million atrocities occur. Mobs and gangs, looting, military abuses...you can choose to think positively about humanity, you have that right, but i say you are wrong. Katrina wasn't an anomaly. The foolish thing is to think you can prepare against that future..you cant store more that a few months meager rations and you can't eat or drink bullets.

mickeyrat

unsung said:

jmuscatello said:

Keep your precious 2nd Amendment rights but consider limitations and regulations. Really. That's so illogical?

Rights, by definition are not limited and regulated. Privileges are.

Next time you feel the need to restrict MY rights how about I get to restrict yours and ban you from being able to post your opinion online. Maybe someone feels that it is reckless and it hurts their feelings. We can't have people getting their feelings hurt, can we?

How about I get to determine what kind of car you get to buy because I don't feel that you need one for whatever random knee-jerk reaction I feel like using? How about I get to give you one of those old brick cellphones because you don't need a smart phone? Maybe I think your TV is too big so I should be able to restrict that too.

Rights are not determined by you or I or any government. Rights are not limited or regulated. So no, I won't consider that.


I believe that there should be steps to ensure that bad guys cannot hurt good guys. However how many more laws will it take to stop gang shootings in Chicago?

lets try some modest restrictions on gun purchases in Ohio to start. Close some of these major holes we have in who can and how they can buy. Like nonresidents buying legally in Ohio.

unsung

brianlux said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

goingtoverona said:

is it weird to wanna stockpile all sorts of shit and learn how to live off the grid and off your own land after watching the walking dead?

I think it's a little paranoid for sure.

But movies like The Road make a guy pause for thought.

People should be able to take care of themselves. Since when did that become paranoia? We saw what happened during Katrina, am I supposed to let that happen to me?

If something happened the grocery stores would be out of food in a day. Geez, people fight and maim others over saving a few bucks on shitty electronics on Black Friday. You think that they wouldn't do worse if they were starving???

Unsung,

Come on. Making some preparations is fine, but stockpiling for a pending apocalyptic disaster is a little excessive- don't you think?

In the event the world goes for a shit... I would think for the most part, people would bond together and work with each other to gain some semblance of a decent life. I do not think it would be as cutthroat as you suggest.

Edit: We have seen humanity at its finest in our darkest hours such as people running into the trade center or towards the explosions in Boston. In general, people are good.

Quite honestly, making thread after thread about guns and anger toward cops does seem a little paranoid. Surely there other things to think and write about, no?

Does it matter? You have choices.

unsung

mickeyrat said:

unsung said:

jmuscatello said:

Keep your precious 2nd Amendment rights but consider limitations and regulations. Really. That's so illogical?

Rights, by definition are not limited and regulated. Privileges are.

Next time you feel the need to restrict MY rights how about I get to restrict yours and ban you from being able to post your opinion online. Maybe someone feels that it is reckless and it hurts their feelings. We can't have people getting their feelings hurt, can we?

How about I get to determine what kind of car you get to buy because I don't feel that you need one for whatever random knee-jerk reaction I feel like using? How about I get to give you one of those old brick cellphones because you don't need a smart phone? Maybe I think your TV is too big so I should be able to restrict that too.

Rights are not determined by you or I or any government. Rights are not limited or regulated. So no, I won't consider that.


I believe that there should be steps to ensure that bad guys cannot hurt good guys. However how many more laws will it take to stop gang shootings in Chicago?

lets try some modest restrictions on gun purchases in Ohio to start. Close some of these major holes we have in who can and how they can buy. Like nonresidents buying legally in Ohio.

Please explain the non-residents. Do you mean from other states or immigrants?

mickeyrat

o

unsung said:

mickeyrat said:

unsung said:

jmuscatello said:

Keep your precious 2nd Amendment rights but consider limitations and regulations. Really. That's so illogical?

Rights, by definition are not limited and regulated. Privileges are.

Next time you feel the need to restrict MY rights how about I get to restrict yours and ban you from being able to post your opinion online. Maybe someone feels that it is reckless and it hurts their feelings. We can't have people getting their feelings hurt, can we?

How about I get to determine what kind of car you get to buy because I don't feel that you need one for whatever random knee-jerk reaction I feel like using? How about I get to give you one of those old brick cellphones because you don't need a smart phone? Maybe I think your TV is too big so I should be able to restrict that too.

Rights are not determined by you or I or any government. Rights are not limited or regulated. So no, I won't consider that.


I believe that there should be steps to ensure that bad guys cannot hurt good guys. However how many more laws will it take to stop gang shootings in Chicago?

lets try some modest restrictions on gun purchases in Ohio to start. Close some of these major holes we have in who can and how they can buy. Like nonresidents buying legally in Ohio.

Please explain the non-residents. Do you mean from other states or immigrants?

other states. Given the so very lax laws and the proven crime associated with guns purchased in Ohio and transported elsewhere , its a measure that could reduce some of the violence seen in a city such as Chicago. further, tighten up the no paper trail after initial purchase. what I propose could have a very real effect on the propensity of guns in the wrong hands.

text from a news link locally. from a report in June of last year.

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Federal statistics show that Ohio is a top source for guns used in crimes in other states.

The data released this week and reported by The Columbus Dispatch (http://bit.ly/12QJl5B ) show 1,601 guns were first legally purchased in Ohio in 2012 and then linked to crimes such as robbery and murder in 36 other states.

Another 5,375 guns stayed in Ohio and were linked to crimes in 2012, according to the newspaper analysis of numbers from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Ohio was a top contributor to guns used in crimes in 2011, too. Around 1,700 weapons attained here were traced to crimes in 38 states during that year.

Law enforcement officials say part of the reason is Ohio's less-restrictive gun laws.

link, 10tv owned by the Wolfe family. conservative. also own the columbus dispatch. reasonably balanced.
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2013/06/21/columbus-ohio-top-supplier-of-guns-to-other-state.html

mickeyrat

damn free speech restrictions in this forum....."body is xxx characters too long......

article linked above part 1
By Joshua Jamerson The Columbus Dispatch • Friday June 21, 2013 5:19 AM

Comments: 18

Federal data released this week show once again that Ohio is a top source for guns involved in crimes in other states. And the state remains among the weakest when it comes to gun laws.

Criminals know that, law-enforcement officials say, so it’s no surprise to them that Ohio guns show up in so many criminal acts in other states.

“People know they can come to Ohio, get a gun, and take it someplace where there are tougher restrictions,” said Columbus Deputy Police Chief Jeffrey Blackwell. “It happens at gun shows in the sticks and through underground schemes on city streets.”

Sometimes, it’s a lot of guns, such as the 183 that ended up involved in New York crimes, or just one, such as the Ohio gun linked to a crime in Vermont.

In all, 1,601 guns were first legally purchased in Ohio last year and then linked to crimes such as robbery and homicide in 36 other states. An additional 5,375 guns stayed in Ohio and were linked to crimes in 2012, according to a Dispatch analysis of data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

In 2011, the number of guns traced back to Ohio from other states was closer to 1,700, with 5,225 staying in the state. Ohio was a top contributor of guns used in crimes in 38 states.

Though not all those guns are linked to trafficking operations, Laura Cutilletta, senior staff attorney for the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, says that the trace data illustrate how easy it is to get guns in Ohio. She said the state has too many loopholes for gun ownership that serve as a “beacon” for a gun-trafficking market.

By law, background checks are not required for all gun sales — including some online and gun-show sellers. The state doesn’t keep track of who buys guns. Violent misdemeanors, such as domestic violence, don’t disqualify someone from making a firearm purchase.

But gun lobbies argue that there will always be criminals who break the law, no matter how tight the law is.

Now that those lobbies have seemingly halted Congress’ push for tighter gun restrictions, some argue that lawmakers in states across the country could have some effect on gun trafficking in America. But others argue that any more restrictions on gun ownership will affect a constitutional right to bear arms.
Movement of guns

It’s hard to end gun trafficking because it’s tough to track the movement of guns. There’s no national register the federal government can use to show who owns a firearm at any given time. The ATF each year uses information supplied voluntarily by local law-enforcement agencies around the country to trace guns used in crimes back to a legal purchase. From there, they can discover whether someone illegally bought guns for other people.

First, the agency traces guns involved in crimes to the manufacturer. From there, they find the shop that first sold it, and the first buyer. Then comes the tricky part: ATF agents have to ask around to figure out how a gun moved from hand to hand.

The data that comes from those investigations is compiled in state-by-state annual reports known as “trace data” that show everything from which types of guns were used in crimes to where they came from.

While there are several limitations to the trace information, it’s the only information of its kind, said Dave Coulson, the Columbus ATF spokesman, adding that it’s “a powerful tool” that provides the bureau with information.

mickeyrat

article linked above part 2

What are the loopholes?

Ohio lawmakers have taken few steps to expand state law further than required by federal law when it comes to guns — a move many other states have taken over the years, according to information from the Denver-based National Conference of State Legislatures, a bipartisan research group.

The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, a nonprofit advocacy group founded by attorneys who deem themselves experts on America’s gun laws, gives Ohio’s current law a “D” grade.

“In a lot of states, there are a few violent misdemeanors that would prevent someone from getting a gun,” Cutilletta said. “In Ohio, being disqualified for a previously committed crime relies on what the federal government already has. ... You’d essentially have to be a felon to be disqualified from owning a gun.”

Other examples of requirements not found in Ohio law:

• Licenses for gun-owners who want to sell their guns.

• Regulation of the number of guns someone can buy in a given timeframe.

• Restrictions on buying a gun in one day’s time. At least two states prohibit same-day purchases.

• Tracking of firearm sales. Gun shops are required to report sales only to the federal government.

• Background checks for all sales.

“When you make it easy to get a gun in a state, I mean, it’s just common sense that people will go there to get a gun, especially in frequent and large amounts,” Cutilletta said.

The law center used trace data to show that Ohio has been the top “interstate supplier” in the past of guns used in crimes in Michigan, where the laws are ranked better than Ohio’s with a “C” grade by the law center.
Home-grown trafficker

Former Columbus police officer Mark Andrew Nelson made thousands of dollars by illegally selling 500 guns at gun shows and from the trunk of his car in 2005.

One gun from his operation was linked to a triple homicide in Baltimore.

A student put another gun linked to Nelson to a student’s head at a high school in Maryland. A third was found next to a dead body in the backseat of a car in New Jersey.

Nelson was, by definition, a gun trafficker. He ran an operation that provided guns to people who otherwise wouldn’t be able to get them because they might not pass a background check.

Nelson will likely walk out of prison a free man before 2017, and many of the guns he illegally sold will still be on the streets when he does.

Could state laws have stopped Nelson and his affiliates?

“If Ohio had regulations on how many guns someone can buy in a year and kept track of firearm sales, gun traffickers who don’t have misdemeanors might get caught a bit earlier,” Cutilleta said, adding that if the state kept track of firearm sales, it might be able to step in before the federal government got around to it.
No law to address problem

Nelson didn’t go to prison for “gun trafficking.” He pleaded guilty to one count of lying on a government document about his intent for purchasing a firearm and was sentenced to 10 years in prison and a $2,000 fine.

The government uses that part of federal law to put away people involved in gun trafficking because there is no federal statute — or Ohio law — that makes it a crime to participate in gun-trafficking schemes.

“Right now, it’s more about the falsification of forms,” said Coulson, the ATF Columbus spokesman. “If you had knowledge that a gun was going to a felon, that charge could be tacked on, too.”

Some gun-control advocates argue that since law-enforcement officers have a working definition for gun trafficking, there should be a law making it a crime.

“A direct statute would give the federal government some powerful prosecuting tools,” said Cutilletta, the attorney for the law center. “At the state level ... if law enforcement knew they had a possible charge against someone that they could use to have someone be prosecuted, they could have more incentive to investigate. If the focus on an investigation has to be whether someone broke a procedural rule, it might be a harder time. It’s nicer to have a direct violation that they can look for.”

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine declined to comment on gun trafficking and the state’s gun laws. A spokesman for Gov. John Kasich said the governor’s office was looking at the new ATF report.

Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye State Firearms Association, said he’s against a statute directly outlining gun trafficking or straw purchasing as a crime, suggesting that the government could piece together existing statutes to put a trafficker or straw buyer away — as was done in Nelson’s case.

“If you’ve got A, B, C and D, I don’t think there’s a need for a thing that covers all of them,” Irvine said.

But regardless of what the gun-rights and gun-control lobbies say, the trace data show a trend with regard to Ohio gun ownership, Coulson said.

“Statistics are statistics. These are the down and dirty facts,” he said. “There are other people that need to take them to the next step.”

Joshua Jamerson is a fellow in Ohio University’s Statehouse News Bureau.

jjamerson@dispatch.com

@JoshJame

unsung

Much of what you are asking for already exists, I've been prevented from making purchases in the past.

mickeyrat

unsung said:

Much of what you are asking for already exists, I've been prevented from making purchases in the past.

in ohio? May I ask what the reason given was?

unsung

Not ohio but I was denied in Michigan and questioned in Wisconsin prior to Chicago's handgun ban getting dumped by SCOTUS.

The Wisconsin guy wouldn't sell to Chicago residents, and Michigan has some type of handgun purchase permit.

Just my personal experience.

unsung

But I'll never agree with limits on how many a person can legally buy.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

You people are still trying to argue with him on this issue? Seriously?

callen

Come to appreciate Unsungs views and we're fortunate to have them. Don't agree with much of it but great to get another viewpoint. He's got gumption to stand by his beliefs on this board. Easy for most of us as we 're preaching to the choir.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

callen said:

Come to appreciate Unsungs views and we're fortunate to have them. Don't agree with much of it but great to get another viewpoint. He's got gumption to stand by his beliefs on this board. Easy for most of us as we 're preaching to the choir.

I agree with this statement.

The voice of dissent is significant in this day and age. Its value cannot be understated- especially when formulated in a reasonable manner.

mickeyrat

unsung said:

Not ohio but I was denied in Michigan and questioned in Wisconsin prior to Chicago's handgun ban getting dumped by SCOTUS.

The Wisconsin guy wouldn't sell to Chicago residents, and Michigan has some type of handgun purchase permit.

Just my personal experience.

well, in all seriousness, three cheers for states rights. Wisconsin seller has a conscience IMO.

Now would you agree , at least in part that Ohio, has some issues to address? My state being the contributor it is to transfer to black market. Much of it from the all too frequent Gun Shows. With private sellers in attendance.

In light of the laws or lack of them here, I would hope to have some accountability and responsibility attached to an item that can have such readily devastating consequences.

unsung

callen said:

Come to appreciate Unsungs views and we're fortunate to have them. Don't agree with much of it but great to get another viewpoint. He's got gumption to stand by his beliefs on this board. Easy for most of us as we 're preaching to the choir.

Respect given is noted, right back at you. Thank you.