Evolution v. Creationism Debate

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,770
    Gern Blansten said:

    When I realized that the reason we embalm people and bury them in caskets in the ground is so that their bodies will be around for the rapture I about shit myself.

    I really believe that society would advance without religion. It is a manufactured way to divide people.

    that's fucked.

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    edited December 2014
    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    brianlux said:

    I'm not what you would describe as a religious person but for a number of reasons, I don't find it useful to suggest we throw out religion altogether or be overly critical of those who profess faith.

    First of all, because no matter how strong a logical argument one makes for religion being a fantasy or merely a product of human make-believe (and I understand those arguments), religions will always be a part of human activity- always have been, always will.


    Secondly, not everyone takes they easy way out like I do (though the road TO that conclusion was neither short nor easy) which is to accept that the things we cannot understand scientifically and the things that feel "spiritual" to us are mysterious and to be OK with seeing them as mystery. Others have a greater need to find something more solid to hinge these things upon- thus, religion.

    And thirdly, despite the many evil, harmful and atrocious acts brought on in the name of religion (like most wars, etc.) I believe it is also useful to look at the beneficial things people of faith have accomplished. There are many such people who have done great work in promoting and working for excellent causes such as justice, freedom and equality. Look at the work of people like people like Desmond Tutu Anglican Bishop/social rights activist ), Jim Wallis (protestant Christian/ peace and social justice advocate), Rami Nashashibi (Muslim, director of the Inner-City Muslim Action Network/community organizer, justice advocate), Rev. Frank Schaefer (United Methodist pastor who works to support same-sex marriage), and one of my favorites- Wendell Berry/Advocate of Christian pacifism, environmental activist, social critic.

    And lets not forget the atheists. Kurt Vonnegut Jr.- one of our greatest writers: atheist/social critic.

    In all these cases (even Vonnegut only I can't quite figure out how to explain why I believe this) the terrific work all of these people and many more have done was at least in part driven by their faith. I don't think you can dismiss that.

    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.
    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    brianlux said:

    I'm not what you would describe as a religious person but for a number of reasons, I don't find it useful to suggest we throw out religion altogether or be overly critical of those who profess faith.

    First of all, because no matter how strong a logical argument one makes for religion being a fantasy or merely a product of human make-believe (and I understand those arguments), religions will always be a part of human activity- always have been, always will.


    Secondly, not everyone takes they easy way out like I do (though the road TO that conclusion was neither short nor easy) which is to accept that the things we cannot understand scientifically and the things that feel "spiritual" to us are mysterious and to be OK with seeing them as mystery. Others have a greater need to find something more solid to hinge these things upon- thus, religion.

    And thirdly, despite the many evil, harmful and atrocious acts brought on in the name of religion (like most wars, etc.) I believe it is also useful to look at the beneficial things people of faith have accomplished. There are many such people who have done great work in promoting and working for excellent causes such as justice, freedom and equality. Look at the work of people like people like Desmond Tutu Anglican Bishop/social rights activist ), Jim Wallis (protestant Christian/ peace and social justice advocate), Rami Nashashibi (Muslim, director of the Inner-City Muslim Action Network/community organizer, justice advocate), Rev. Frank Schaefer (United Methodist pastor who works to support same-sex marriage), and one of my favorites- Wendell Berry/Advocate of Christian pacifism, environmental activist, social critic.

    And lets not forget the atheists. Kurt Vonnegut Jr.- one of our greatest writers: atheist/social critic.

    In all these cases (even Vonnegut only I can't quite figure out how to explain why I believe this) the terrific work all of these people and many more have done was at least in part driven by their faith. I don't think you can dismiss that.

    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.
    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    brianlux said:

    I'm not what you would describe as a religious person but for a number of reasons, I don't find it useful to suggest we throw out religion altogether or be overly critical of those who profess faith.

    First of all, because no matter how strong a logical argument one makes for religion being a fantasy or merely a product of human make-believe (and I understand those arguments), religions will always be a part of human activity- always have been, always will.


    Secondly, not everyone takes they easy way out like I do (though the road TO that conclusion was neither short nor easy) which is to accept that the things we cannot understand scientifically and the things that feel "spiritual" to us are mysterious and to be OK with seeing them as mystery. Others have a greater need to find something more solid to hinge these things upon- thus, religion.

    And thirdly, despite the many evil, harmful and atrocious acts brought on in the name of religion (like most wars, etc.) I believe it is also useful to look at the beneficial things people of faith have accomplished. There are many such people who have done great work in promoting and working for excellent causes such as justice, freedom and equality. Look at the work of people like people like Desmond Tutu Anglican Bishop/social rights activist ), Jim Wallis (protestant Christian/ peace and social justice advocate), Rami Nashashibi (Muslim, director of the Inner-City Muslim Action Network/community organizer, justice advocate), Rev. Frank Schaefer (United Methodist pastor who works to support same-sex marriage), and one of my favorites- Wendell Berry/Advocate of Christian pacifism, environmental activist, social critic.

    And lets not forget the atheists. Kurt Vonnegut Jr.- one of our greatest writers: atheist/social critic.

    In all these cases (even Vonnegut only I can't quite figure out how to explain why I believe this) the terrific work all of these people and many more have done was at least in part driven by their faith. I don't think you can dismiss that.

    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.
    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,671
    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    brianlux said:

    I'm not what you would describe as a religious person but for a number of reasons, I don't find it useful to suggest we throw out religion altogether or be overly critical of those who profess faith.

    First of all, because no matter how strong a logical argument one makes for religion being a fantasy or merely a product of human make-believe (and I understand those arguments), religions will always be a part of human activity- always have been, always will.


    Secondly, not everyone takes they easy way out like I do (though the road TO that conclusion was neither short nor easy) which is to accept that the things we cannot understand scientifically and the things that feel "spiritual" to us are mysterious and to be OK with seeing them as mystery. Others have a greater need to find something more solid to hinge these things upon- thus, religion.

    And thirdly, despite the many evil, harmful and atrocious acts brought on in the name of religion (like most wars, etc.) I believe it is also useful to look at the beneficial things people of faith have accomplished. There are many such people who have done great work in promoting and working for excellent causes such as justice, freedom and equality. Look at the work of people like people like Desmond Tutu Anglican Bishop/social rights activist ), Jim Wallis (protestant Christian/ peace and social justice advocate), Rami Nashashibi (Muslim, director of the Inner-City Muslim Action Network/community organizer, justice advocate), Rev. Frank Schaefer (United Methodist pastor who works to support same-sex marriage), and one of my favorites- Wendell Berry/Advocate of Christian pacifism, environmental activist, social critic.

    And lets not forget the atheists. Kurt Vonnegut Jr.- one of our greatest writers: atheist/social critic.

    In all these cases (even Vonnegut only I can't quite figure out how to explain why I believe this) the terrific work all of these people and many more have done was at least in part driven by their faith. I don't think you can dismiss that.

    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.
    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Shit, I don't know if there's a god or not... although my cat seems to there there (she) is. :-)

    My comments were not meant to validity the existence or lack there of of a god but rather to refute that all people of faith are clueless. I know some very excellent people who believe in a god who are not at all what I would term clueless. A statement made previously here claims that such people "don't know what's going on" and that non-believers do. Besides being vague as hell, that statement seems unjustly dismissive of a lot of damn good people. I just don't buy it.

    But, err, I think were were talking about evolution vs creationism so, sorry to derail.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    brianlux said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    brianlux said:

    I'm not what you would describe as a religious person but for a number of reasons, I don't find it useful to suggest we throw out religion altogether or be overly critical of those who profess faith.

    First of all, because no matter how strong a logical argument one makes for religion being a fantasy or merely a product of human make-believe (and I understand those arguments), religions will always be a part of human activity- always have been, always will.


    Secondly, not everyone takes they easy way out like I do (though the road TO that conclusion was neither short nor easy) which is to accept that the things we cannot understand scientifically and the things that feel "spiritual" to us are mysterious and to be OK with seeing them as mystery. Others have a greater need to find something more solid to hinge these things upon- thus, religion.

    And thirdly, despite the many evil, harmful and atrocious acts brought on in the name of religion (like most wars, etc.) I believe it is also useful to look at the beneficial things people of faith have accomplished. There are many such people who have done great work in promoting and working for excellent causes such as justice, freedom and equality. Look at the work of people like people like Desmond Tutu Anglican Bishop/social rights activist ), Jim Wallis (protestant Christian/ peace and social justice advocate), Rami Nashashibi (Muslim, director of the Inner-City Muslim Action Network/community organizer, justice advocate), Rev. Frank Schaefer (United Methodist pastor who works to support same-sex marriage), and one of my favorites- Wendell Berry/Advocate of Christian pacifism, environmental activist, social critic.

    And lets not forget the atheists. Kurt Vonnegut Jr.- one of our greatest writers: atheist/social critic.

    In all these cases (even Vonnegut only I can't quite figure out how to explain why I believe this) the terrific work all of these people and many more have done was at least in part driven by their faith. I don't think you can dismiss that.

    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.
    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Shit, I don't know if there's a god or not... although my cat seems to there there (she) is. :-)

    My comments were not meant to validity the existence or lack there of of a god but rather to refute that all people of faith are clueless. I know some very excellent people who believe in a god who are not at all what I would term clueless. A statement made previously here claims that such people "don't know what's going on" and that non-believers do. Besides being vague as hell, that statement seems unjustly dismissive of a lot of damn good people. I just don't buy it.

    But, err, I think were were talking about evolution vs creationism so, sorry to derail.

    Some of the most intelligent people I know believe. So no they aren't clueless. They seek the solace of something better.

    Now if it stayed there and they want to have that reassuring feeling fine.

    It's though a whole nother matter if they say they believe in fables and then those fables affect the rest of society, including school curriculum. And if someone believes in the rapture, Noah or the other impossible events as fact they need to be challenged.

    Also non believers are discriminated against and this can get really bad as believers truths are challenged and they do not like that.

    Praying doesn't work. There are no miracles. God is not just and Jesus didn't rise from the dead. Just putting these thoughts down on board gets very emotional responses, but why? It's okay to strongly challenge these beliefs and I feel humanity will be better once we get past need to believe in these tall tales.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    edited December 2014
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:



    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.

    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
    Well that's the thing, right?? If i found out God actually existed - if somehow proof was revealed - I would hate his fucking guts. I never understood why people love that guy so much... and the worse he is to people, the more they seem to love him. It's the definition of insanity.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Funny.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,671
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:



    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.

    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
    Well that's the thing, right?? If i found out God actually existed - if somehow proof was revealed - I would hate his fucking guts. I never understood why people love that guy so much... and the worse he is to people, the more they seem to love him. It's the definition of insanity.
    Yeah, in that case I think this God (him/her/it) would have a bit of explaining to do. But God would probably have an explanation that would be so far different than anything any religion has ever come up with as to render them completely obsolete. Maybe God is waiting for humans to evolve to the point of being able to understand the meaning of that explanation.

    That, by the way, is a classic argument in favor of evolution.

    I think at this point, if I were to meet God I would tell him/her/it that I think this corner of creation has largely become a clusterfuck but thanks letting me stick around long enough to learn how to deal with it at which point I'm guessing God would say, "Bingo".

    I don't think there's a bearded guy in the sky. I think it's what we make of ourselves in a world that has run amok.



    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    brianlux said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:



    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.

    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
    Well that's the thing, right?? If i found out God actually existed - if somehow proof was revealed - I would hate his fucking guts. I never understood why people love that guy so much... and the worse he is to people, the more they seem to love him. It's the definition of insanity.
    God would probably have an explanation that would be so far different than anything any religion has ever come up with as to render them completely obsolete. Maybe God is waiting for humans to evolve to the point of being able to understand the meaning of that explanation.

    That, by the way, is a classic argument in favor of evolution.

    I don't get where you are going with this at all my friend. I have never heard that argument in favor of evolution presented as you have.

    If anything your explanation has given more points in favor of evolution.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,671
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:



    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.

    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
    Well that's the thing, right?? If i found out God actually existed - if somehow proof was revealed - I would hate his fucking guts. I never understood why people love that guy so much... and the worse he is to people, the more they seem to love him. It's the definition of insanity.
    God would probably have an explanation that would be so far different than anything any religion has ever come up with as to render them completely obsolete. Maybe God is waiting for humans to evolve to the point of being able to understand the meaning of that explanation.

    That, by the way, is a classic argument in favor of evolution.

    I don't get where you are going with this at all my friend. I have never heard that argument in favor of evolution presented as you have.

    If anything your explanation has given more points in favor of evolution.
    I'm not sure how what I said gives points in favor of evolution but I'll take them, thanks! I'm all in favor of evolution!

    Not to side-track too much but try this: hit "show previous quotes" above and check out the trippy fading boxes. If we keep responding to previous quotes enough times, eventually the innermost most will be black, possibly even a black hole of knowledge containing the answer to this whole god/evolution/creationism question. Just don't fall down that hole. Ohhhh no!

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:



    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.

    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
    Well that's the thing, right?? If i found out God actually existed - if somehow proof was revealed - I would hate his fucking guts. I never understood why people love that guy so much... and the worse he is to people, the more they seem to love him. It's the definition of insanity.
    God would probably have an explanation that would be so far different than anything any religion has ever come up with as to render them completely obsolete. Maybe God is waiting for humans to evolve to the point of being able to understand the meaning of that explanation.

    That, by the way, is a classic argument in favor of evolution.

    I don't get where you are going with this at all my friend. I have never heard that argument in favor of evolution presented as you have.

    If anything your explanation has given more points in favor of evolution.
    I'm not sure how what I said gives points in favor of evolution but I'll take them, thanks! I'm all in favor of evolution!

    Not to side-track too much but try this: hit "show previous quotes" above and check out the trippy fading boxes. If we keep responding to previous quotes enough times, eventually the innermost most will be black, possibly even a black hole of knowledge containing the answer to this whole god/evolution/creationism question. Just don't fall down that hole. Ohhhh no!

    I'm in this hole are you?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,671
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:



    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.

    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
    Well that's the thing, right?? If i found out God actually existed - if somehow proof was revealed - I would hate his fucking guts. I never understood why people love that guy so much... and the worse he is to people, the more they seem to love him. It's the definition of insanity.
    God would probably have an explanation that would be so far different than anything any religion has ever come up with as to render them completely obsolete. Maybe God is waiting for humans to evolve to the point of being able to understand the meaning of that explanation.

    That, by the way, is a classic argument in favor of evolution.

    I don't get where you are going with this at all my friend. I have never heard that argument in favor of evolution presented as you have.

    If anything your explanation has given more points in favor of evolution.
    I'm not sure how what I said gives points in favor of evolution but I'll take them, thanks! I'm all in favor of evolution!

    Not to side-track too much but try this: hit "show previous quotes" above and check out the trippy fading boxes. If we keep responding to previous quotes enough times, eventually the innermost most will be black, possibly even a black hole of knowledge containing the answer to this whole god/evolution/creationism question. Just don't fall down that hole. Ohhhh no!

    I'm in this hole are you?
    YEEEeessssss!

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    brianlux said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    brianlux said:

    Last-12-Exit said:



    I understand your sentiments. The question I have is would the people you mentioned above still have the same views and still be good people if religion wasn't a factor? Would Kurt Vonnegut still be an excellent writer if there was no such thing as religion and he wasn't labeled an atheist? Would Wendell Berry still be a pacifist if he wasn't apart of a Christian organization?

    I know you wrote that their faith influenced them, but I say they could still be great without the religious overtones.

    That's a good question but I'm afraid it's one only Tralfamadorians are likely to be able to answer! Haha!

    But the things is that for most if not all of those people, their faith is an integral part of who they are and what they do. And of course there are many great people who have done great and wonderful things who do not profess any particular religion or who are atheists- people from a wide spectrum like Edward Abbey, Henry Rollins, Amy Goodman, Derrick Jensen and on and on. Mix all those good religious and non-religious people together and you have a great bunch of people.

    I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not in a hurry to dismiss people for their faith or lack thereof. As long as a person's faith is a personal belief and not one they claim I must own, I'm good with that.

    It's like the good cop/bad cop thing. Yes, there is widespread corruption in police forces and I believe that generally there is a lot of change needing to take place in law enforcement or we'll end up in a police state. But I'm not, as you know, about to call all cops "bad". No way. Same deal with religious people. Religions have done massive amounts of harm and many changes that way would be great but that doesn't make all people of faith bad or harmful.
    No one is dismissing anyone for their faith or lack thereof. The unfaithful seem to know what is going on that's all.
    I agree that there are a lot of aspects of all faiths that seem really far fetched to me which is why I don't follow any religion. But do you really believe that because they don't follow a faith, the unfaithful know what's going on? What, like all of them? And you don't think there are people of faith who know what's going on? That's interesting. I'll have to take that up with Mr. Berry next time I see him. image

    Well, If God doesn't exist, then yes, the atheists pretty much know what's going on (as far as science has allowed us so far, anyway), and the religious seriously don't - they're way the fuck off. If God does exist, then religious people still don't know Wtf is going on, since they still couldn't know the true nature of God, but they'd know a lot more than the Atheists.
    Is it really about who knew more? I wonder if somehow it could be proven there was a god, how many atheists would convert? I have always said show me evidence and I'll drop to my knees where a stand. Then again, having concrete evidence would take away the number one thing religious people rely on- faith.
    It would be fucking scary to know that this thing called god is real and all that he is done is true.
    fuck me
    Well that's the thing, right?? If i found out God actually existed - if somehow proof was revealed - I would hate his fucking guts. I never understood why people love that guy so much... and the worse he is to people, the more they seem to love him. It's the definition of insanity.
    God would probably have an explanation that would be so far different than anything any religion has ever come up with as to render them completely obsolete. Maybe God is waiting for humans to evolve to the point of being able to understand the meaning of that explanation.

    That, by the way, is a classic argument in favor of evolution.

    I don't get where you are going with this at all my friend. I have never heard that argument in favor of evolution presented as you have.

    If anything your explanation has given more points in favor of evolution.
    I'm not sure how what I said gives points in favor of evolution but I'll take them, thanks! I'm all in favor of evolution!

    Not to side-track too much but try this: hit "show previous quotes" above and check out the trippy fading boxes. If we keep responding to previous quotes enough times, eventually the innermost most will be black, possibly even a black hole of knowledge containing the answer to this whole god/evolution/creationism question. Just don't fall down that hole. Ohhhh no!

    I'm in this hole are you?
    YEEEeessssss!

    NOOOoooooo
  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    I believe that I've mentioned before that the founder of the Creation Museum was also building a Noah's Ark theme park. Apparently there were enough questions about the separation of church and state involved in granting tax incentives that the state withdrew their offer.

    npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370155783/kentucky-says-noahs-ark-theme-park-wont-get-tax-breaks
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    riotgrl said:

    I believe that I've mentioned before that the founder of the Creation Museum was also building a Noah's Ark theme park. Apparently there were enough questions about the separation of church and state involved in granting tax incentives that the state withdrew their offer.

    npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370155783/kentucky-says-noahs-ark-theme-park-wont-get-tax-breaks

    Not sure if he is a smart, sharp, cunning businessman or a nutjob.

  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    so yesterday a jehovah's witness rocked up to my door determined to show me the error of my atheistic ways even after I identified myself as an atheist and told him he was wasting his time. I must have been in a weird mood(it was a weird day here in Sydney) cause I actually listened to what he had to say knowing he was in fact wasting his time. knowing that to me creationism isn't logical and regardless of any argument or 'fact' as he liked to call them he came up with wasn't going to sway me in the least. he was taken aback when I pointed out that the words he was showing me in his book weren't the same words that I had read in my bible(in genesis). he wanted me to show him the non matching passages. unfortunately it was near school home time and I was needed elsewhere.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,760
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    riotgrl said:

    I believe that I've mentioned before that the founder of the Creation Museum was also building a Noah's Ark theme park. Apparently there were enough questions about the separation of church and state involved in granting tax incentives that the state withdrew their offer.

    npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370155783/kentucky-says-noahs-ark-theme-park-wont-get-tax-breaks

    Not sure if he is a smart, sharp, cunning businessman or a nutjob.

    Those religious theme parks are fucking creepy as hell (which is ironic, haha):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXRkPjiRpk
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    riotgrl said:

    I believe that I've mentioned before that the founder of the Creation Museum was also building a Noah's Ark theme park. Apparently there were enough questions about the separation of church and state involved in granting tax incentives that the state withdrew their offer.

    npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370155783/kentucky-says-noahs-ark-theme-park-wont-get-tax-breaks

    Not sure if he is a smart, sharp, cunning businessman or a nutjob.

    Those religious theme parks are fucking creepy as hell (which is ironic, haha):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXRkPjiRpk
    I like Bills voice to opine about religion but I feel he is a puppet head.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    Nice read here
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/reservoir-under-canadian-shield-may-be-half-as-old-as-earth-itself/article11938571/#

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