6 dead and many people displaced and who've lost all their life's possessions ... and we're talking about subsidies for renewables ...
Do you think all conversation about renewable energy should be abandoned until there is peace on Earth??
no ... that wasn't the meaning behind my post ... it's just that the consequences of global warming are right in front of our face resulting in significant suffering ... yet (on another thread) people are griping about the subsidies wind farms are getting ... it's absolutely ridiculous ...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,300
6 dead and many people displaced and who've lost all their life's possessions ... and we're talking about subsidies for renewables ...
Do you think all conversation about renewable energy should be abandoned until there is peace on Earth??
no ... that wasn't the meaning behind my post ... it's just that the consequences of global warming are right in front of our face resulting in significant suffering ... yet (on another thread) people are griping about the subsidies wind farms are getting ... it's absolutely ridiculous ...
That's the American view of economics. Unless one is talking about economics the way, for example, Bill McKibben does in his book Deep Economy, economics is purely a money matter bast of GNP. An economy based solely on production has no concern for the impact on resources or sustainability or a viable future for large mammals.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
6 dead and many people displaced and who've lost all their life's possessions ... and we're talking about subsidies for renewables ...
Do you think all conversation about renewable energy should be abandoned until there is peace on Earth??
no ... that wasn't the meaning behind my post ... it's just that the consequences of global warming are right in front of our face resulting in significant suffering ... yet (on another thread) people are griping about the subsidies wind farms are getting ... it's absolutely ridiculous ...
I see. I agree that's absolutely ridiculous. And I agree with what Brian said about how a lot of people view the economy in the US.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,300
A relevant email from Bill McKibben today reads:
Dear Friends,
[1][IMG]Every once in a while I write something that seems worth sharing. Four years ago it was an essay in Rolling Stone about the new math of global warming that helped trigger the divestment movement. [2]Today it's a piece in The New Republic about the war--the literal war--that global warming has become.
We're used to metaphors: the war on drugs, the war on poverty. But in this case carbon and methane--without malice but also without mercy--are waging a war on the civilization that emitted them. This year we've lost huge swaths of the world's coral; vast sheets of ice disappear daily. Our adversary is taking territory and taking lives.
So what would it mean to fight back? Most of the piece is devoted to that possibility: thanks to the engineers who have driven down the cost of renewables, we're at the first moment where that's a possibility. If we wanted to, we could--as a world--replicate the industrial miracle that won World War II. Instead of bombers we'd build turbine blades; in place of planes, solar panels. The reporting in the piece shows that putting up enough renewables to get us back on the path to 350 parts per million is possible--barely.
Thanks to researchers like Stanford's Mark Jacobson, there's a plan for every state and most nations; the question is, can we build for the future with as much commitment as we once built for war? The answer to that question is in our hands.
[3]I hope you'll read and share this piece while this odd election season drags on; please share it with your friends and family and Facebook crew so that we can build the peaceful army we badly need.
By winter, our movement will be pushing harder than ever. Not just for change but for change on the scale we need.
Onward,
Bill McKibben for 350.org
P.S. If you want a sense of what this war looks like today, here are [4]some pictures from Louisiana where completely unprecedented flooding has now killed 7 and forced 20,000 rescues from homes, cars, and hospitals. As in any war, we need to take care of the people being impacted: [5]relief efforts can be directed here. And Louisiana is not the only place. We're also thinking of our colleagues in sprawling Manila today, where flooding has also claimed lives and left thousands in evacuation centers. On a more hopeful note, brave fighters in North Dakota are taking a remarkable stand right now against a new pipeline planned for the edge of the Standing Rock Sioux reservation.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,300
edited August 2016
It's encouraging to me that generally we are less and less global warming denial so this brief video will come as no surprise to most but I found it worth posting here. Physicist Brian Cox is one smart fellow:
My bad I was under the impression that souther border was a problem
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,300
Ever find yourself overwhelmed by negativity that so many subjects can bring on, often for a good reason? I do. And do you try, at least, to find a way to focus on the positive and find hope in these times? I sure do. Yet despite that, the subject of this thread is the most difficult in which to find a bright spot.
I was a little ways up the hill today running errands today- just a short drive from here really- up to Pollock Pines. I hadn't been there since about a month ago. The number of new dead ponderosa and sugar pine trees I saw since just a month ago was staggering. It is widely thought that the epidemic pine trees death due to bark beetles is directly correlated with global warming. How many examples of this sort do we need before we act? Are we deer caught in the headlights, unable to move? Where is the hope in all this.
Sorry for this post but, really, what I saw today was a bit of a mind fuck.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Ever find yourself overwhelmed by negativity that so many subjects can bring on, often for a good reason? I do. And do you try, at least, to find a way to focus on the positive and find hope in these times? I sure do. Yet despite that, the subject of this thread is the most difficult in which to find a bright spot.
I was a little ways up the hill today running errands today- just a short drive from here really- up to Pollock Pines. I hadn't been there since about a month ago. The number of new dead ponderosa and sugar pine trees I saw since just a month ago was staggering. It is widely thought that the epidemic pine trees death due to bark beetles is directly correlated with global warming. How many examples of this sort do we need before we act? Are we deer caught in the headlights, unable to move? Where is the hope in all this.
Sorry for this post but, really, what I saw today was a bit of a mind fuck.
honestly ... the evidence of global warming hasn't affected me as much as people's attitudes ... our collective heads are so up our asses now it's pathetic ...
it's interesting how many movies have been made about how people lead such destructive lives and that if we were governed by some AI or computer - they would make us batteries or choose to get rid of us like a plague ... too bad in those movies - the machines are the bad guys! ... should be us!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,300
Ever find yourself overwhelmed by negativity that so many subjects can bring on, often for a good reason? I do. And do you try, at least, to find a way to focus on the positive and find hope in these times? I sure do. Yet despite that, the subject of this thread is the most difficult in which to find a bright spot.
I was a little ways up the hill today running errands today- just a short drive from here really- up to Pollock Pines. I hadn't been there since about a month ago. The number of new dead ponderosa and sugar pine trees I saw since just a month ago was staggering. It is widely thought that the epidemic pine trees death due to bark beetles is directly correlated with global warming. How many examples of this sort do we need before we act? Are we deer caught in the headlights, unable to move? Where is the hope in all this.
Sorry for this post but, really, what I saw today was a bit of a mind fuck.
honestly ... the evidence of global warming hasn't affected me as much as people's attitudes ... our collective heads are so up our asses now it's pathetic ...
it's interesting how many movies have been made about how people lead such destructive lives and that if we were governed by some AI or computer - they would make us batteries or choose to get rid of us like a plague ... too bad in those movies - the machines are the bad guys! ... should be us!
I can see that argument. At the same time, we do have the choice to change. We could work to make things better. And why don't we? Maybe we don't because that would not make for a blockbuster movie?
I still think it is possible for people to change. Certainly more possible than most of the religious myths that get told as literal truth. We just need to convince people to go after the possible and leave fiction as fiction.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
exactly ... only been saying this for a decade now ...
Mr. Obama immersed himself in the scientific literature, which left little doubt that the planet was warming at an accelerating rate. “My top science adviser, John Holdren, periodically will issue some chart or report or graph in the morning meetings,” he said, “and they’re terrifying.”
yet people still look at us enviros as only interested in big gov't and killing jobs ... people are fucking dying because of our ignorance and it's only gonna get worse ...
ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...
also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,300
ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...
also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
This is amazing! I'm not much of a mechanic but back in the day when I drove a '65 Chevy Malibu, even someone mechanically limited as me could change the oil, the filters, tune the car and adjust the timing. I did all of those on a regular basis. No way would I attempt to do any of those things on my Toyota. Ever! To hear about cars that can be maintained this simply AND run so cleanly... this is promising news!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...
also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
This is amazing! I'm not much of a mechanic but back in the day when I drove a '65 Chevy Malibu, even someone mechanically limited as me could change the oil, the filters, tune the car and adjust the timing. I did all of those on a regular basis. No way would I attempt to do any of those things on my Toyota. Ever! To hear about cars that can be maintained this simply AND run so cleanly... this is promising news!
these guys built the prototype in a garage with crowdfunding ... imagine if the big automakers really wanted to produce a car that was cheap, reliable and clean!? ... it would be a piece of cake but that's not their objective ...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,300
ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
So the panels only deliver a small charge per day? Why not remove the panels to lower the price of the car by what I assume would be a large margin?
because that charge gives flexibility ... you can use the battery as a generator if you are working away from electricity ... did you get a chance to watch the video? ... it's pretty cool ...
I will after work. I'm not downplaying the idea of electric cars, just as an engineer the solar panels don't seem worth it if they only add 18.6 mi of charge per day where a power outlet completely charges in 30ish minutes.
it's 80% charge on 30 minutes ... but ya ... the solar panels only add about 30 Km a day ... but if you were to say go on a camping trip for a week ... not only would you have electricity where you are staying ... car will be charged for the ride home without plugging in ...
also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
This is amazing! I'm not much of a mechanic but back in the day when I drove a '65 Chevy Malibu, even someone mechanically limited as me could change the oil, the filters, tune the car and adjust the timing. I did all of those on a regular basis. No way would I attempt to do any of those things on my Toyota. Ever! To hear about cars that can be maintained this simply AND run so cleanly... this is promising news!
these guys built the prototype in a garage with crowdfunding ... imagine if the big automakers really wanted to produce a car that was cheap, reliable and clean!? ... it would be a piece of cake but that's not their objective ...
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Yes, very possible. Century long or longer droughts have happened in the past and we are pushing it to happen again quickly and more severely. More and more people keep moving here. I see families with three or four kids instead of one or two. ROATs (Ridiculously Oversized American Truck) are all over the place. More strip malls are being constructed while many lie half empty. We still have not replaced tree farming with hemp farming. We had suppressed fire here for so long that now large portions of the state burn throughout the summer instead of having the regular smaller natural fires or smaller fires set by Native Americans that kept the underbrush down. And as far as I know, Governor Brown (who I once strongly supported) still wants to allow fracking in California.
California will depopulate dramatically as this century progresses. Moving here is an unwise choice.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Dear Friends,
[1][IMG]Every once in a while I write something that seems worth sharing.
Four years ago it was an essay in Rolling Stone about the new math of
global warming that helped trigger the divestment movement. [2]Today it's
a piece in The New Republic about the war--the literal war--that global
warming has become.
We're used to metaphors: the war on drugs, the war on poverty. But in this
case carbon and methane--without malice but also without mercy--are waging
a war on the civilization that emitted them. This year we've lost huge
swaths of the world's coral; vast sheets of ice disappear daily. Our
adversary is taking territory and taking lives.
So what would it mean to fight back? Most of the piece is devoted to that
possibility: thanks to the engineers who have driven down the cost of
renewables, we're at the first moment where that's a possibility. If we
wanted to, we could--as a world--replicate the industrial miracle that won
World War II. Instead of bombers we'd build turbine blades; in place of
planes, solar panels. The reporting in the piece shows that putting up
enough renewables to get us back on the path to 350 parts per million is
possible--barely.
Thanks to researchers like Stanford's Mark Jacobson, there's a plan for
every state and most nations; the question is, can we build for the future
with as much commitment as we once built for war? The answer to that
question is in our hands.
[3]I hope you'll read and share this piece while this odd election season
drags on; please share it with your friends and family and Facebook crew
so that we can build the peaceful army we badly need.
By winter, our movement will be pushing harder than ever. Not just for
change but for change on the scale we need.
Onward,
Bill McKibben for 350.org
P.S. If you want a sense of what this war looks like today, here are
[4]some pictures from Louisiana where completely unprecedented flooding
has now killed 7 and forced 20,000 rescues from homes, cars, and
hospitals. As in any war, we need to take care of the people being
impacted: [5]relief efforts can be directed here. And Louisiana is not the
only place. We're also thinking of our colleagues in sprawling Manila
today, where flooding has also claimed lives and left thousands in
evacuation centers. On a more hopeful note, brave fighters in North Dakota
are taking a remarkable stand right now against a new pipeline planned for
the edge of the Standing Rock Sioux reservation.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-16/professor-brian-cox-vs.-senator-malcolm-roberts/7746576
Oh, and thank you CF for bringing this to my attention!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I was a little ways up the hill today running errands today- just a short drive from here really- up to Pollock Pines. I hadn't been there since about a month ago. The number of new dead ponderosa and sugar pine trees I saw since just a month ago was staggering. It is widely thought that the epidemic pine trees death due to bark beetles is directly correlated with global warming. How many examples of this sort do we need before we act? Are we deer caught in the headlights, unable to move? Where is the hope in all this.
Sorry for this post but, really, what I saw today was a bit of a mind fuck.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
it's interesting how many movies have been made about how people lead such destructive lives and that if we were governed by some AI or computer - they would make us batteries or choose to get rid of us like a plague ... too bad in those movies - the machines are the bad guys! ... should be us!
I still think it is possible for people to change. Certainly more possible than most of the religious myths that get told as literal truth. We just need to convince people to go after the possible and leave fiction as fiction.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
ya ... the battery is not included in the sticker price ... still ... cars like this would satisfy 90% of most commuters ...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Typical American response. "Screw the planet, man, we want a strong economy."
Insanity.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Mr. Obama immersed himself in the scientific literature, which left little doubt that the planet was warming at an accelerating rate. “My top science adviser, John Holdren, periodically will issue some chart or report or graph in the morning meetings,” he said, “and they’re terrifying.”
yet people still look at us enviros as only interested in big gov't and killing jobs ... people are fucking dying because of our ignorance and it's only gonna get worse ...
also - the repairs is novel too ... if a part is broke - you just mail order the part and there are youtube videos for you to fix it ... that's one of the biggest things about EV's I think people undervalue ... is that there are so fewer parts vs. a combustion engine - it's actually a lot cheaper and simpler to maintain ...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/09/12/climate-change-here-august-was-another-hottest-month-record-books
http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2016/09/16/climate-change-californias-economy-changing-drought-could-last-centuries-say-western-university-ucla-scientists
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
California will depopulate dramatically as this century progresses. Moving here is an unwise choice.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"