Arapahoe High School shooting victim Claire Davis dies

Godfather.

Thirty what is the punishment for gun posession in your country ? here in the states if a gun is used in a crime it's automatically 5 years in addition to what ever you are sentanced for the crime that was commited, this country is not that old and guns have played a major roll in its begenning and for the survival of the people that came here (protection,food on the table etc.) when Pual Rever started screaming "the British are coming" they didn't attack with documents and pens. if everything is taken away by our government that could cause harm to another human being what would be next ? and how will we protect our selfs from a government that has the intent to herd all it's sheep into submission...sounds far fetched I know but the government is really unpredictable lately.

Godfather

jmuscatello

Agree with you, Thirty Bills. And I live here (US) and am outraged, and discouraged. My state (CO) was finally able to get some common sense gun legislation passed (increased background checks and limit to 15 rounds - nothing too severe in my mind). But even though the majority of Coloradans wanted this, gun-rights conservatives (with some NRA $ backing) came back and organized 2 successful recall elections for the legislators that voted for it. It just goes on, and on, and on....

unsung

If they were recalled apparently the voters got what they wanted.

Godfather.

unsung said:

If they were recalled apparently the voters got what they wanted.

bullseye ! yes pun intended.


Godfather.

jmuscatello

If wasting more taxpayer $ is what they wanted, yep, they got that but accomplished little else.... they came up short of getting a third recall that would have threatened the gun reform measures. I'm happy to say that Colorado made some progress last year despite them.

Cosmo

usamamasan1 said:

Sad. From what I've read, a really kind soul taken away with no reason.

Good news is there was a good guy with a gun right around the corner. Surely saved many lives as the coward had to turn his gun on himself because an officer was en route within a minute.


The deputy was yelling for people to get down and identified himself as a county deputy sheriff, Robinson said. "We know for a fact that the shooter knew that the deputy was in the immediate area and, while the deputy was containing the shooter, the shooter took his own life."

He praised the deputy's response as "a critical element to the shooter's decision" to kill himself, and lauded his response to hearing gunshots. "He went to the thunder," he said. "He heard the noise of gunshot and, when many would run away from it, he ran toward it to make other people safe

...
Yes sir... a Good Guy (i.e. a well-trainned, uniformed County paid OFFICER). We ALL want that.... COPS to protect us from mental cases who are allowed to get weapons to turn on us.
What we DON'T want are untrainned, mentally unstable, citizen/yahoo numb-nuts who are armed with a 9mm pistol and a hero complex to pour 13 rounds of cross-fire into our paths as we flee for cover from the other psycho.

Cosmo

unsung said:

So, those advocating for bans on AR-15's and 30 rd magazines, what is your answer to those that already have these in their possession? This is the most common sporting rifle in the country and the magazine has had MILLIONS made. Some politicians are suggesting creating laws that make it a felony to own these. So I'd be turned into a criminal even though I haven't had a speeding ticket in 15 years? Are you prepared to potentially charge millions of people with felonies? What will you do when they refuse to comply?

The solutions offered only punish the law abiding and do nothing to address those that are intent on committing mayhem no matter how many laws are written.

...
How about you register your semi-automatic weapon and are held responsible for the transfer of its registration. That way, we can call you a criminal when you sell your weapon to a 15 year old gang member without even bothering to find out that he has mental problems and wants it to carry out his cat's message to kill anyone driving a pick-up truck.

unsung

That reply was not very well thought out considering it did not answer my post when I was quoted. But I'll attempt to muddle through this anyway.

I'm not registering anything. I will refuse to comply. Are they going to turn millions of law abiding people into felons? Better start building more prisons.

And I don't even know a gangbanger, how funny to think that there are people who believe that it's just so easy to find one and then actually sell a gun to one. That would be insulting if I were new here and didn't consider sources. I swear there are people here that would rather see me locked up for my beliefs over others for what they've actually done.

Write a law that addresses the criminals and that doesn't punish the law abiding and I'll be behind it. Otherwise quit trying to turn me into something I'm not.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

That reply was not very well thought out considering it did not answer my post when I was quoted. But I'll attempt to muddle through this anyway.

I'm not registering anything. I will refuse to comply. Are they going to turn millions of law abiding people into felons? Better start building more prisons.

And I don't even know a gangbanger, how funny to think that there are people who believe that it's just so easy to find one and then actually sell a gun to one. That would be insulting if I were new here and didn't consider sources. I swear there are people here that would rather see me locked up for my beliefs over others for what they've actually done.

Write a law that addresses the criminals and that doesn't punish the law abiding and I'll be behind it. Otherwise quit trying to turn me into something I'm not.

How does registering your weapon punish you other than inconvenience you?

I'm not even going to speak to the validity of the post you referenced because it appears your paranoia prevents you from seeing the good that 'small' step could offer.

11,000 gun homicides per year for the country that boasts the highest gun ownership rate. The statistics completely obliterate the rates featured by other countries that have measures of gun control in place.

Simply question: do you deny there is a correlation between your enormous gun ownership rates and the staggering number of gun homicides?

a5pj

unsung said:

That reply was not very well thought out considering it did not answer my post when I was quoted. But I'll attempt to muddle through this anyway.

I'm not registering anything. I will refuse to comply. Are they going to turn millions of law abiding people into felons? Better start building more prisons.

And I don't even know a gangbanger, how funny to think that there are people who believe that it's just so easy to find one and then actually sell a gun to one. That would be insulting if I were new here and didn't consider sources. I swear there are people here that would rather see me locked up for my beliefs over others for what they've actually done.

Write a law that addresses the criminals and that doesn't punish the law abiding and I'll be behind it. Otherwise quit trying to turn me into something I'm not.

What I take out of this is that you would rather not be bothered to try and slow the rate of gun homicides in this country by doing one simple step. I see your point, it's a hassle, and the felon comment is a stretch to the extreme. But wouldn't it be worth the hassle if guns could be tracked (like cars, etc) so that the people who sell guns to minors, mentally unstable people, and people with records could be stopped. Might just slow down the deaths in this country. What about for all guns sold or given as gifts from now on?

Btw I know many responsible gun owners, and I agree with many of your points, but there's a big problem here.

unsung

Registration leads to confiscation. It is happening in NY right now so don't tell me it's being paranoid.

And yes, a felon. Another person lecturing me without their facts when the legislation has been presented in my state of Illinois. They wanted to make it a FELONY for each magazine greater than 10rds that I owned. Each one would have brought a separate felony charge. Seriously before you people start accusing others of being paranoid turn off your TV's and do some damn research. Come to my table with some knowledge of the situation before you spout off about paranoia.

Shall I touch on the mandatory minimum sentencing that they wanted here if I accidentally crossed onto park property while I was legally concealed carrying? Three years, even with no priors.

jmuscatello

"Registration leads to confiscation" - oh my god
Just curious unsung, just exactly how many high-capacity magazines do you own?

a5pj

unsung said:

Registration leads to confiscation. It is happening in NY right now so don't tell me it's being paranoid.

And yes, a felon. Another person lecturing me without their facts when the legislation has been presented in my state of Illinois. They wanted to make it a FELONY for each magazine greater than 10rds that I owned. Each one would have brought a separate felony charge. Seriously before you people start accusing others of being paranoid turn off your TV's and do some damn research. Come to my table with some knowledge of the situation before you spout off about paranoia.

Shall I touch on the mandatory minimum sentencing that they wanted here if I accidentally crossed onto park property while I was legally concealed carrying? Three years, even with no priors.

I'll retract my felony statement, sorry. Good thing that never passed, don't know how it would. What about my other questions? Tracking guns to stop them getting into hands of ppl that shouldn't have them? Tracking guns from now on? Do you have any suggestions to slow down the gun killings in this country?

It was done with drunk driving, knowledge got out there, look at that research. It was out of control, now it keeps happening less often due to the steps taken.

unsung

jmuscatello said:

"Registration leads to confiscation" - oh my god
Just curious unsung, just exactly how many high-capacity magazines do you own?

They are not high-capacity, they are standard capacity. They are the most popular selling magazine in the country.

What I own is my business, not anyone else's.

And that's entirely besides the point. Your 'oh my god' shows exactly where you stand on the issue. Ask those New Yorkers and those from Connecticut that received the confiscation letters if I'm a liar or not.

Cosmo

unsung said:

That reply was not very well thought out considering it did not answer my post when I was quoted. But I'll attempt to muddle through this anyway.

I'm not registering anything. I will refuse to comply. Are they going to turn millions of law abiding people into felons? Better start building more prisons.

And I don't even know a gangbanger, how funny to think that there are people who believe that it's just so easy to find one and then actually sell a gun to one. That would be insulting if I were new here and didn't consider sources. I swear there are people here that would rather see me locked up for my beliefs over others for what they've actually done.

Write a law that addresses the criminals and that doesn't punish the law abiding and I'll be behind it. Otherwise quit trying to turn me into something I'm not.

...
Perhaps, my response was unclear to you, but I did think it out... a bit. I suppose I could have thought it out more extensively in order to avoid any confusion on your part.. for which, I apologise.
Now... You had asked, "What is your answer to those that already have these in their possession?" and "What will you do when they refuse to comply?"
I thought my reply of "How about you register your semi-automatic weapon and are held responsible for the transfer of its registration" was a response to your first question and we can call you a criminal if you fail to transfer that resistration along with the sale of the weapon. Also, that you be held to the same laws regarding gun sales as a licensed gun shop and/or gun dealer. That is, you use submit a background check form for the potential buyer to the proper authorities and do not complete the transaction until you receive a confirmation. That's all.
...
And you don't have to personally know a gangbanger. One can reach you from your CraigsList ad or approach you at a gun show where you have your weapon for sale.
Also, you can drop the "Poor me, I'm a persecuted victim' routine here... no one wants to lok you up for no reason. But, I feel YOU should be personally responsible for the weapon you have freely chosen to possess. You say you are a responsible gun owner... but. we don't know that. We just need more than your word on what a wonderful guy you are because anyone can say they are wonderful, right? We need you to prove that is a true statement and you are capable and not another James Holmes nutcase that we are going to read about in the newpapers.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

unsung said:

Registration leads to confiscation. It is happening in NY right now so don't tell me it's being paranoid.

And yes, a felon. Another person lecturing me without their facts when the legislation has been presented in my state of Illinois. They wanted to make it a FELONY for each magazine greater than 10rds that I owned. Each one would have brought a separate felony charge. Seriously before you people start accusing others of being paranoid turn off your TV's and do some damn research. Come to my table with some knowledge of the situation before you spout off about paranoia.

Shall I touch on the mandatory minimum sentencing that they wanted here if I accidentally crossed onto park property while I was legally concealed carrying? Three years, even with no priors.

I came to your table with plenty of information. I also posed a question to you which I see you ducked. I'll ask it again (wait while I cut and paste):

Do you deny there is a correlation between your enormous gun ownership rates and the staggering number of gun homicides?

a5pj

I'm looking forward to their answer to my last post as well. This could turn into quite a useful discussion if we would all stop accusing.

I'm currently on the side that where we are with gun control now is obviously not working. Still waiting for the gun owners / nra argument that's based in common sense and is a compromise to help curb all these shootings. I don't know what the right answer is, but something better than this has to be out there. (Looking at you Australia and wondering...)

unsung

Cosmo said:

unsung said:

That reply was not very well thought out considering it did not answer my post when I was quoted. But I'll attempt to muddle through this anyway.

I'm not registering anything. I will refuse to comply. Are they going to turn millions of law abiding people into felons? Better start building more prisons.

And I don't even know a gangbanger, how funny to think that there are people who believe that it's just so easy to find one and then actually sell a gun to one. That would be insulting if I were new here and didn't consider sources. I swear there are people here that would rather see me locked up for my beliefs over others for what they've actually done.

Write a law that addresses the criminals and that doesn't punish the law abiding and I'll be behind it. Otherwise quit trying to turn me into something I'm not.

...
Perhaps, my response was unclear to you, but I did think it out... a bit. I suppose I could have thought it out more extensively in order to avoid any confusion on your part.. for which, I apologise.
Now... You had asked, "What is your answer to those that already have these in their possession?" and "What will you do when they refuse to comply?"
I thought my reply of "How about you register your semi-automatic weapon and are held responsible for the transfer of its registration" was a response to your first question and we can call you a criminal if you fail to transfer that resistration along with the sale of the weapon. Also, that you be held to the same laws regarding gun sales as a licensed gun shop and/or gun dealer. That is, you use submit a background check form for the potential buyer to the proper authorities and do not complete the transaction until you receive a confirmation. That's all.
...
And you don't have to personally know a gangbanger. One can reach you from your CraigsList ad or approach you at a gun show where you have your weapon for sale.
Also, you can drop the "Poor me, I'm a persecuted victim' routine here... no one wants to lok you up for no reason. But, I feel YOU should be personally responsible for the weapon you have freely chosen to possess. You say you are a responsible gun owner... but. we don't know that. We just need more than your word on what a wonderful guy you are because anyone can say they are wonderful, right? We need you to prove that is a true statement and you are capable and not another James Holmes nutcase that we are going to read about in the newpapers.

That reply is laughable. My word? Nobody said anything about my word. My RECORD speaks for itself. See the beautiful thing about it that I don't have to defend myself in my argument.

It's funny how you anti-gunners try to shame the pro-gun crowd. I'm not a smoker blowing smoke on your baby in a restaurant. I'm trained and I have shot thousands of rounds perfecting my skills.

unsung

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

unsung said:

Registration leads to confiscation. It is happening in NY right now so don't tell me it's being paranoid.

And yes, a felon. Another person lecturing me without their facts when the legislation has been presented in my state of Illinois. They wanted to make it a FELONY for each magazine greater than 10rds that I owned. Each one would have brought a separate felony charge. Seriously before you people start accusing others of being paranoid turn off your TV's and do some damn research. Come to my table with some knowledge of the situation before you spout off about paranoia.

Shall I touch on the mandatory minimum sentencing that they wanted here if I accidentally crossed onto park property while I was legally concealed carrying? Three years, even with no priors.

I came to your table with plenty of information. I also posed a question to you which I see you ducked. I'll ask it again (wait while I cut and paste):

Do you deny there is a correlation between your enormous gun ownership rates and the staggering number of gun homicides?

I wasn't ducking anything, have I ever ignored you? This forum is difficult to navigate on a phone since the change.

As to your question my answer is this. You need to find where those gun crimes are taking place. There is a huge difference between legal gun owners and illegal. Most gun crime is done by those illegally possessing them, such as the gangs in Chicago. Gang members don't go to gun shows (as someone here suggested) to buy guns because of some supposed no background check. They buy them from cartels (which bought them through Obama government programs such as Fast and Furious) and from crooks that stole them. They don't come to us legal gun owners. Why would we do something like that? It would be so counter-productive to our fight.

Rarely are crimes committed by legal gun owners, sure it does happen. That ex-COP in Florida should be locked away for good. But it's rare. It's the same for the attacks with the liberal catch phrase 'assault weapon'. In 2011 there were over 500 people killed in Chicago, one was determined to be done using an 'assault weapon', yet the media wants to make these the bogeyman when they are used in the tiniest fraction of crimes.

And of course politicians such as Obama and Feinstein want to ban these types of firearms because it'll show their liberal base that they are trying to be tough on gun crime even though it wouldn't be doing anything to reduce the crimes that are currently happening.

But it gets those evil guns off the streets? Yeah right. AR-15's are the most popular sporting rifle sold in this country, and are almost never used to commit a crime. Same for these so called "high-capacity" magazines. It's completely overblown.

You want my answer to solving gun crime in this country? Here it is. You go into these areas such as Chicago and Detroit and you arrest every gang member there is and lock them away for fifty years. But no, can't do that because that's racist, right? Funny, liberals have no problems with creating laws to turn me into a criminal but god forbid laws be created to actually lock up the bad guys.

And really, the comparison between countries is stupid. Hope that answers your question. Understand the difference between legal and illegal. Create laws to punish the illegal owners, not the legal ones that have followed the laws.

a5pj

So no reply yet as to what you would suggest as to curb the trend of 12,000 gun deaths per year in this country? Just not my problem, my record is good?

I was thinking last night, 12,000 is about 5 full high schools of staff and kids, all dead, every year. Not a problem...