I finally took the time to watch the entire vid. I own one hunting gun. Yes, I hunt. I prefer to eat as much game as I can, as opposed to the processed shit they sell in the stores. I don't really follow the gun movement bullshit, because it gets stupid. However, there's no doubt when he says "I almost wish bad things upon these people" that he's saying, he wishes they would be affected by some sort of gun tragedy. I mean his follow up statement pretty much drives the point home..."But I don't have to because it seems like they happen anyways. It seems like every week I'm reading about a 4-year-old either shooting their sister, their dad, their dog, their brother or themselves, because there's fucking guns laying around..."
So he doesn't have to wish for these people to get shot, or to have members of their families shot, because it happens anyway. I have no qualms with him saying what he wants to say, and people will defend him for just "speaking off the cuff" but what a fucking asshole. I mean seriously.
First and foremost I think he ignores the overwhelming problem in this country...gun's are not the issue...the continual decline of the country's overall mental health is the main problem. So he is actually missing the mark by a long shot. He should be using his time and resources to rail against the bullshit they put in our food (most of which is outlawed in other countries) or the excessive use of psychotic medicines. These two things alone I believe fuel the vast majority of the overall violence we experience. Our country is going nuts, literally.
This is further backed by the fact that when you look at the actual CDC numbers, roughly 2/3's of gun related deaths are due to suicide. People need help mentally.
To simplify things by saying guns=murder/suicide is a shallow, and in all honesty, a rather dumb way of looking at things. It is much more complex than that. The biggest influences are going to be the illegal drug trade, the strength of families (i.e. the social environment people are growing up in), the economy, and even law enforcement responses (which are also factored in to gun deaths). I personally believe that even the media; movies, video games, music, etc. have an effect, but that's just my personal belief.
I mean what if I were to say, I don't drink alcohol, maybe it should be outlawed. There needs to be much more control over it. It's only there to serve one purpose and that is to make people intoxicated. To what degree of intoxication is up to the person consuming it, but most people are irresponsible as we've already determined in this and other threads. When you use it as it is intended you will be inebriated. Since 100% of drunk driving deaths are related to people using this substance, I think it should be outlawed.
While we're at it, they should outlaw smoking. That is one thing that will for sure kill you eventually when used as intended. Not to mention, I don't care how fucking responsible you are, when you're breathing out that shitty smoke, you are putting my life and my families life at risk. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/
I almost wish bad things on people that drink and/or smoke, but I don't have to because everyday I'm reading about people either drinking themselves to death, dying of lung cancer, killing moms, dads, teenagers, infants, entire families on the highway because they were driving while drunk. Maybe these people should die before they have the chance to hurt others. That is how asinine his statements are.
you may add that drunks not even driving down the highway are harming their own families while being a at home drunk. some at home drunks are violent & beat on their spouse & children. some drunks have actually killed their family members by being total fucking assholes. that is a situation cops are not at all thrilled to be in; domestic violence... bad stuff & unpredicable
Shawshank, your post is excellent food for (my) thought.
You mentioned the mental illness and medicine aspects; the latter scares me (almost! - and oh how I'm coming to loathe that word :P ) more than the former. I can't even say how many ads I see every damned day with warnings about drastic changes in behavior, mood swings, suicidal thoughts. I mean shit, someone just wants a good night's sleep or lower their cholesterol.
Somewhere, in-between the all-or-none mindsets, I hope good judgment and reason prevail - not only in legislation but in action as well.
I finally took the time to watch the entire vid. I own one hunting gun. Yes, I hunt. I prefer to eat as much game as I can, as opposed to the processed shit they sell in the stores. I don't really follow the gun movement bullshit, because it gets stupid. However, there's no doubt when he says "I almost wish bad things upon these people" that he's saying, he wishes they would be affected by some sort of gun tragedy. I mean his follow up statement pretty much drives the point home..."But I don't have to because it seems like they happen anyways. It seems like every week I'm reading about a 4-year-old either shooting their sister, their dad, their dog, their brother or themselves, because there's fucking guns laying around..."
So he doesn't have to wish for these people to get shot, or to have members of their families shot, because it happens anyway. I have no qualms with him saying what he wants to say, and people will defend him for just "speaking off the cuff" but what a fucking asshole. I mean seriously.
First and foremost I think he ignores the overwhelming problem in this country...gun's are not the issue...the continual decline of the country's overall mental health is the main problem. So he is actually missing the mark by a long shot. He should be using his time and resources to rail against the bullshit they put in our food (most of which is outlawed in other countries) or the excessive use of psychotic medicines. These two things alone I believe fuel the vast majority of the overall violence we experience. Our country is going nuts, literally.
This is further backed by the fact that when you look at the actual CDC numbers, roughly 2/3's of gun related deaths are due to suicide. People need help mentally.
To simplify things by saying guns=murder/suicide is a shallow, and in all honesty, a rather dumb way of looking at things. It is much more complex than that. The biggest influences are going to be the illegal drug trade, the strength of families (i.e. the social environment people are growing up in), the economy, and even law enforcement responses (which are also factored in to gun deaths). I personally believe that even the media; movies, video games, music, etc. have an effect, but that's just my personal belief.
I mean what if I were to say, I don't drink alcohol, maybe it should be outlawed. There needs to be much more control over it. It's only there to serve one purpose and that is to make people intoxicated. To what degree of intoxication is up to the person consuming it, but most people are irresponsible as we've already determined in this and other threads. When you use it as it is intended you will be inebriated. Since 100% of drunk driving deaths are related to people using this substance, I think it should be outlawed.
While we're at it, they should outlaw smoking. That is one thing that will for sure kill you eventually when used as intended. Not to mention, I don't care how fucking responsible you are, when you're breathing out that shitty smoke, you are putting my life and my families life at risk. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/
I almost wish bad things on people that drink and/or smoke, but I don't have to because everyday I'm reading about people either drinking themselves to death, dying of lung cancer, killing moms, dads, teenagers, infants, entire families on the highway because they were driving while drunk. Maybe these people should die before they have the chance to hurt others. That is how asinine his statements are.
To overlook the fact that the US is the most armed country in the world (by far) and yields the most deaths by gunfire (by far) yields either the most extreme case of denial or a mental deficiency.
I would agree that there are complicating factors that contribute to these deaths, but the problems you have cited exist in other countries in the same capacity as well... yet these same countries do not have the epidemic of gun violence that the US features.
Smoking is one of the goofiest habits out there, but when it was determined that second hand smoke was harmful to others... smokers were not permitted to smoke around others in public places. A measure was taken to safeguard innocents and this was a fair measure.
Right now... it's essentially carte blanche for gun enthusiasts and there have been no uniform and effective measures taken to safeguard your school children and movie goers. At a minimum... limit the types of weapons people can access and limit the types of people who can access guns. Don't provide the necessary tools for these 'kooks' to do their bidding.
I asked before and it was ignored: if taking these types of measures prevent one tragedy... wouldn't they be worth it? I also asked what the over/under might be before the next national tragedy? It is inevitable, correct?
I finally took the time to watch the entire vid. I own one hunting gun. Yes, I hunt. I prefer to eat as much game as I can, as opposed to the processed shit they sell in the stores. I don't really follow the gun movement bullshit, because it gets stupid. However, there's no doubt when he says "I almost wish bad things upon these people" that he's saying, he wishes they would be affected by some sort of gun tragedy. I mean his follow up statement pretty much drives the point home..."But I don't have to because it seems like they happen anyways. It seems like every week I'm reading about a 4-year-old either shooting their sister, their dad, their dog, their brother or themselves, because there's fucking guns laying around..."
So he doesn't have to wish for these people to get shot, or to have members of their families shot, because it happens anyway. I have no qualms with him saying what he wants to say, and people will defend him for just "speaking off the cuff" but what a fucking asshole. I mean seriously.
First and foremost I think he ignores the overwhelming problem in this country...gun's are not the issue...the continual decline of the country's overall mental health is the main problem. So he is actually missing the mark by a long shot. He should be using his time and resources to rail against the bullshit they put in our food (most of which is outlawed in other countries) or the excessive use of psychotic medicines. These two things alone I believe fuel the vast majority of the overall violence we experience. Our country is going nuts, literally.
This is further backed by the fact that when you look at the actual CDC numbers, roughly 2/3's of gun related deaths are due to suicide. People need help mentally.
To simplify things by saying guns=murder/suicide is a shallow, and in all honesty, a rather dumb way of looking at things. It is much more complex than that. The biggest influences are going to be the illegal drug trade, the strength of families (i.e. the social environment people are growing up in), the economy, and even law enforcement responses (which are also factored in to gun deaths). I personally believe that even the media; movies, video games, music, etc. have an effect, but that's just my personal belief.
I mean what if I were to say, I don't drink alcohol, maybe it should be outlawed. There needs to be much more control over it. It's only there to serve one purpose and that is to make people intoxicated. To what degree of intoxication is up to the person consuming it, but most people are irresponsible as we've already determined in this and other threads. When you use it as it is intended you will be inebriated. Since 100% of drunk driving deaths are related to people using this substance, I think it should be outlawed.
While we're at it, they should outlaw smoking. That is one thing that will for sure kill you eventually when used as intended. Not to mention, I don't care how fucking responsible you are, when you're breathing out that shitty smoke, you are putting my life and my families life at risk. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/
I almost wish bad things on people that drink and/or smoke, but I don't have to because everyday I'm reading about people either drinking themselves to death, dying of lung cancer, killing moms, dads, teenagers, infants, entire families on the highway because they were driving while drunk. Maybe these people should die before they have the chance to hurt others. That is how asinine his statements are.
To overlook the fact that the US is the most armed country in the world (by far) and yields the most deaths by gunfire (by far) yields either the most extreme case of denial or a mental deficiency.
I would agree that there are complicating factors that contribute to these deaths, but the problems you have cited exist in other countries in the same capacity as well... yet these same countries do not have the epidemic of gun violence that the US features.
Smoking is one of the goofiest habits out there, but when it was determined that second hand smoke was harmful to others... smokers were not permitted to smoke around others in public places. A measure was taken to safeguard innocents and this was a fair measure.
Right now... it's essentially carte blanche for gun enthusiasts and there have been no uniform and effective measures taken to safeguard your school children and movie goers. At a minimum... limit the types of weapons people can access and limit the types of people who can access guns. Don't provide the necessary tools for these 'kooks' to do their bidding.
I asked before and it was ignored: if taking these types of measures prevent one tragedy... wouldn't they be worth it? I also asked what the over/under might be before the next national tragedy? It is inevitable, correct?
You are correct that the civilian population in the United States owns more guns than any other civilian population in the world. But Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, and Colombia have more gun related deaths than in the United States.
You are correct that the civilian population in the United States owns more guns than any other civilian population in the world. But Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, and Colombia have more gun related deaths than in the United States.
I stand corrected. The US has Mexico beat.
To make the point I was trying to make, look at the following rates for a comparison to some other countries than Mexico and Colombia:
Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop
US 2.97 per 100,000 (88.8 firearms per 100 people)
Canada 0.51 per 100,000 (30.8 firearms per 100 people)
England and Wales 0.07 per 100,000 (6.2 firearms per 100 people)
Australia 0.14 per 100,000 (15 firearms per 100 people)
Germany 0.19 per 100,000 (30.3 firearms per 100 people)
New Zealand 0.16 per 100,000 (22.6 firearms per 100 people)
Norway 0.05 per 100,000 (31.3 firearms per 100 people)
Sweden 0.41 per 100,000 (31.6 firearms per 100 people)
To overlook the fact that the US is the most armed country in the world (by far) and yields the most deaths by gunfire (by far) yields either the most extreme case of denial or a mental deficiency.
I would agree that there are complicating factors that contribute to these deaths, but the problems you have cited exist in other countries in the same capacity as well... yet these same countries do not have the epidemic of gun violence that the US features.
Smoking is one of the goofiest habits out there, but when it was determined that second hand smoke was harmful to others... smokers were not permitted to smoke around others in public places. A measure was taken to safeguard innocents and this was a fair measure.
Right now... it's essentially carte blanche for gun enthusiasts and there have been no uniform and effective measures taken to safeguard your school children and movie goers. At a minimum... limit the types of weapons people can access and limit the types of people who can access guns. Don't provide the necessary tools for these 'kooks' to do their bidding.
I asked before and it was ignored: if taking these types of measures prevent one tragedy... wouldn't they be worth it? I also asked what the over/under might be before the next national tragedy? It is inevitable, correct?
To say the US leads in gun related deaths (by far) shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. If you really want to see what gun control gets you, just look at Brazil (I could have also used Chicago as an example). Brazil is one of the world leaders in gun related murders...and they have also had some of the most strict gun control laws in the western hemisphere since 2003.
So how is that possible? How can a country that doesn't allow you to carry a gun outside your house, own a gun without having it registered, severely restricts who can buy and sell guns, and enforces extensive background checks lead the world in gun related violence? It goes to one of my main points with regard to US gun violence...the illegal drug trade. Do you think criminals here give one single fuck what the NRA says? They will be in business and armed to the teeth no matter what legislation is passed, just like they are in Brazil.
Criminals will get guns, no matter what you think you might do to stop them, they will still have them. Let's not forget, the vast majority of gun related homicides can be traced directly to criminal activity. Please give me the total number of NRA members and legally licensed carriers that are responsible for mass murders and street violence in the last decade. Based on what Eddie and others say, the number should be staggering...I'll be waiting patiently for the answer.
I see you addressed the smoking issue haphazardly but you didn't touch on my alcohol argument and the damage that it does. Which statistically is a much bigger problem than gun violence and is easily preventable. Wouldn't saving one person's life be worth the elimination of alcohol? If it kept one more drunk driver off the road, or one more lunatic from beating his wife to death, wouldn't it be worth it? I realize how stupid the analogy is, but it doesn't make the point any less valid.
You ask if taking restrictive measures would be worth it if it prevents one tragedy...the same could be argued if carrying a weapon for protection kept you or someone else from being killed wouldn't that be worth it? People here can argue that guns are hardly used in self-defense and the CDC data would prove you wrong. So are you saying that people who carry, are not worth saving? Are their lives not as important?
I agree that there is no need for assault rifles or 30-round mags...that's just stupid...and yes those should be outlawed. I support gun rights in the event of using them for hunting, and a small hand gun for personal protection, if properly trained, certified and only after receiving a comprehensive background check. I believe there should be a balance between trying to find the cause of why our country is going insane, and establishing laws that limit the firepower people are allowed to have access to.
You are correct that the civilian population in the United States owns more guns than any other civilian population in the world. But Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, and Colombia have more gun related deaths than in the United States.
I stand corrected. The US has Mexico beat.
To make the point I was trying to make, look at the following rates for a comparison to some other countries than Mexico and Colombia:
Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop
US 2.97 per 100,000 (88.8 firearms per 100 people)
Canada 0.51 per 100,000 (30.8 firearms per 100 people)
England and Wales 0.07 per 100,000 (6.2 firearms per 100 people)
Australia 0.14 per 100,000 (15 firearms per 100 people)
Germany 0.19 per 100,000 (30.3 firearms per 100 people)
New Zealand 0.16 per 100,000 (22.6 firearms per 100 people)
Norway 0.05 per 100,000 (31.3 firearms per 100 people)
Sweden 0.41 per 100,000 (31.6 firearms per 100 people)
Lets take Venezuela for example, it has a smaller population than the United States. Its government has outlawed private ownership of guns...but yet has more deaths from guns.
I do agree that we do need better gun laws and background checks. I think someone before had mentioned mental health treatment earlier. I think we should be able to talk about the issues and find solutions. I feel that we, as a society, are ready to point a finger instead of finding common ground and solutions. This is what happens when lobbyists and groups such as the NRA get in the way of the people. But that is another topic. One of my closest friends is a progressive liberal democrat who I have argued about the 2nd amendment trillions of times. I think he and I can come up with a solution but we are willing to talk about our disagreements and not have hate or disdain for each other at the end.
I agree that there is no need for assault rifles or 30-round mags...that's just stupid...and yes those should be outlawed. I support gun rights in the event of using them for hunting, and a small hand gun for personal protection, if properly trained, certified and only after receiving a comprehensive background check. I believe there should be a balance between trying to find the cause of why our country is going insane, and establishing laws that limit the firepower people are allowed to have access to.
Then why are we arguing? We agree on the same thing.
I posted some statistics (that I have used before) to speak of the point I was trying to make. Maybe you would like to offer something towards them? I'm pretty sure the countries I offered for comparison are a more appropriate comparison than Honduras, Brazil or Mexico.
This was the only portion of the post I wish to comment on.
High gun ownership makes countries less safe, US study finds (American journal expedites publication of study in wake of navy yard shooting that debunks belief guns make a nation safer)
There was a significant correlation between guns per head per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths with Japan being on one end of the spectrum and the US being on the other. This argues against the notion of more guns translating into less crime. South Africa was the only outlier in that the observed firearms-related death rate was several times higher than expected from gun ownership."
High rates of mental illness in any country, on the other hand, did not predict more gun deaths.
"Although correlation is not the same as causation, it seems conceivable that abundant gun availability facilitates firearm-related deaths. Conversely, high crime rates may instigate widespread anxiety and fear, thereby motivating people to arm themselves and give rise to increased gun ownership, which, in turn, increases availability. The resulting vicious cycle could, bit by bit, lead to the polarized status that is now the case with the US," the doctors write.
I almost wish bad things on people that drink and/or smoke, but I don't have to because everyday I'm reading about people either drinking themselves to death, dying of lung cancer, killing moms, dads, teenagers, infants, entire families on the highway because they were driving while drunk. Maybe these people should die before they have the chance to hurt others. That is how asinine his statements are.
This isn't the same thing as people being irresponsible with guns. Someone sitting around drinking and smoking isn't putting anyone at risk (except for second hand smoke). I guess you're going to tell me you haven't had the thought of wanting to punch someone in the teeth when they act in a way that puts others at risk? This is essentially what Ed is saying.
I'm not sure why the gun people are upset by what he said. How many times in the gun threads do the gun owners talk about how responsible they are with their guns? It's my take that Ed is referring to irresponsible gun owners, e.g. his reference to guns lying around. Shouldn't responsible gun owners be in agreement with Ed on this one?
But he didn't say that about "irresponsible" gun owners. He was talking about people who think shooting guns are "fun". Anyway that doesn't matter if he was refering to irresponsible gun owners or responsible gun owners, its not good to wish ill will on others no matter what they believe in or what they consider is fun.
EDDIE VEDDER, PEARL JAM: You know, this day and age, whether the world’s gone absolutely fucking crazy mad, I think in some ways you’re trying to provide even yourself some glimmer of hope. You know, the fact that we're living in a country where 90 percent of the people want further gun laws to maybe somehow put a dent in some of this insanity that's happening, and yet there's no further legislation taking place. It's very frustrating and upsetting. And if I didn't have music to kind of at least get some of the aggression out or take the edge off, I think that you wouldn't want me having a gun either.
And it’s such a bizarre thing that issue too because, bottom line, they can talk about defending their home or it’s based in the Constitution when, you know, again, when that was put in the Constitution, you know, it took about three and a half minutes to load one pellet into a barrel with powder and the whole thing. So, you know, those laws are antiquated, and the fact that we have, you know, 30 bullet magazines and this, that, and the other thing. And really, the best argument that I can hear, or the one that they have outside of, you know, being in the Constitution is that it’s fun. It’s fun. And so is driving at night at 95 miles an hour.
I get so angry that I almost wish bad things upon these people. But I don't have to because it seems like they happen anyways. It seems like every week I'm reading about a 4-year-old either shooting their sister, their dad, their dog, or their brother or themselves, because there's fucking guns laying around. But I guess it's fun.
I almost wish bad things on people that drink and/or smoke, but I don't have to because everyday I'm reading about people either drinking themselves to death, dying of lung cancer, killing moms, dads, teenagers, infants, entire families on the highway because they were driving while drunk. Maybe these people should die before they have the chance to hurt others. That is how asinine his statements are.
This isn't the same thing as people being irresponsible with guns. Someone sitting around drinking and smoking isn't putting anyone at risk (except for second hand smoke). I guess you're going to tell me you haven't had the thought of wanting to punch someone in the teeth when they act in a way that puts others at risk? This is essentially what Ed is saying.
I'm not sure why the gun people are upset by what he said. How many times in the gun threads do the gun owners talk about how responsible they are with their guns? It's my take that Ed is referring to irresponsible gun owners, e.g. his reference to guns lying around. Shouldn't responsible gun owners be in agreement with Ed on this one?
He said that about people with guns lying around :"because there's fucking guns laying around."
I used the label irresponsible. Do you think it's responsible to have guns laying around or not? He also qualified wishing ill will on others with "almost". To me, that's a brief spontaneous thought vs. a drawn out fantasy.
But he didn't say that about "irresponsible" gun owners. He was talking about people who think shooting guns are "fun". Anyway that doesn't matter if he was refering to irresponsible gun owners or responsible gun owners, its not good to wish ill will on others no matter what they believe in or what they consider is fun.
I almost wish bad things on people that drink and/or smoke, but I don't have to because everyday I'm reading about people either drinking themselves to death, dying of lung cancer, killing moms, dads, teenagers, infants, entire families on the highway because they were driving while drunk. Maybe these people should die before they have the chance to hurt others. That is how asinine his statements are.
This isn't the same thing as people being irresponsible with guns. Someone sitting around drinking and smoking isn't putting anyone at risk (except for second hand smoke). I guess you're going to tell me you haven't had the thought of wanting to punch someone in the teeth when they act in a way that puts others at risk? This is essentially what Ed is saying.
I'm not sure why the gun people are upset by what he said. How many times in the gun threads do the gun owners talk about how responsible they are with their guns? It's my take that Ed is referring to irresponsible gun owners, e.g. his reference to guns lying around. Shouldn't responsible gun owners be in agreement with Ed on this one?
I do not think it is responsible for people to have guns laying around. In my state it is actually a crime to do so. But we are getting off the topic here. He said, "And really, the best argument that I can hear, or the one that they have outside of, you know, being in the Constitution is that it’s fun. It’s fun. And so is driving at night at 95 miles an hour. I get so angry that I almost wish bad things upon these people." Which means the people that have fun with guns. And then he states that he doesn't have to because bad things happen to them anyway.
So he states that he gets angry at people that say its fun to shoot guns and then "almost" wishes bad things on them. And I don't know how spontaneous his thought was because he also states " if I didn't have music to kind of at least get some of the aggression out or take the edge off, I think that you wouldn't want me having a gun either." Thats a bold statement.
My point is, I feel that it is not right to wish ill on others just because they believe in something different than there own. Its ok to disagree, not ok to wish horrible things or almost wish horrible things onto others.
No I will still be going to the show tomorrow. I have learned not to put somebodys personal beliefs over there art/music. But If I had the chance to meet Mr. Vedder, I would decline because he doesn't sound very stable and aggressive. I would much rather meet some of the other members of the band. Or Mudhoney, they seem like a lot of fun. I was never into buying their posters even though they look cool.
No I will still be going to the show tomorrow. I have learned not to put somebodys personal beliefs over there art/music. But If I had the chance to meet Mr. Vedder, I would decline because he doesn't sound very stable and aggressive. I would much rather meet some of the other members of the band. Or Mudhoney, they seem like a lot of fun. I was never into buying their posters even though they look cool.
No I will still be going to the show tomorrow. I have learned not to put somebodys personal beliefs over there art/music. But If I had the chance to meet Mr. Vedder, I would decline because he doesn't sound very stable and aggressive. I would much rather meet some of the other members of the band. Or Mudhoney, they seem like a lot of fun. I was never into buying their posters even though they look cool.
Yes, somebody that states "I think that you wouldn't want me having a gun either" sounds unstable. And as honest as he is with that statment, he shouldn't be trusted with a gun. And if you make statments like that are you truely against violence? Sounds like fighting fire with fire to me.
And again I don't know why we are going off topic and talking about other people " lost in their paranoia that they need to have a deadly weapon with them at all times". I am not talking about that issue. There is another message board for that. If you want my answer to that well, no they seem unstable too.
i am 100% positive ed is very stable not at all aggressive towards others. he may feel aggression in himself, that is good, that is why he is an artist. he writes & creates music & he paints & fucks around on a surf board.
Yes, somebody that states "I think that you wouldn't want me having a gun either" sounds unstable. And as honest as he is with that statment, he shouldn't be trusted with a gun. And if you make statments like that are you truely against violence? Sounds like fighting fire with fire to me.
And again I don't know why we are going off topic and talking about other people " lost in their paranoia that they need to have a deadly weapon with them at all times". I am not talking about that issue. There is another message board for that. If you want my answer to that well, no they seem unstable too.
It's not unstable, it's being honest. No one who's angry should have a gun on them. I wonder how many gun owners would be willing to admit that about themselves.
Yes, somebody that states "I think that you wouldn't want me having a gun either" sounds unstable. And as honest as he is with that statment, he shouldn't be trusted with a gun. And if you make statments like that are you truely against violence? Sounds like fighting fire with fire to me.
And again I don't know why we are going off topic and talking about other people " lost in their paranoia that they need to have a deadly weapon with them at all times". I am not talking about that issue. There is another message board for that. If you want my answer to that well, no they seem unstable too.
It's not unstable, it's being honest. No one who's angry should have a gun on them. I wonder how many gun owners would be willing to admit that about themselves.
I wonder how many people in jail wished they had never owned a gun? We've seen it too many times: a guy loses his anger, a gun is used, and a victim is dead.
How can anyone argue that having more guns is a wise thing? I like how nobody has addressed the study I linked in this thread. The one that states the obvious: more guns equals more deaths by guns.
Comments
So he doesn't have to wish for these people to get shot, or to have members of their families shot, because it happens anyway. I have no qualms with him saying what he wants to say, and people will defend him for just "speaking off the cuff" but what a fucking asshole. I mean seriously.
First and foremost I think he ignores the overwhelming problem in this country...gun's are not the issue...the continual decline of the country's overall mental health is the main problem. So he is actually missing the mark by a long shot. He should be using his time and resources to rail against the bullshit they put in our food (most of which is outlawed in other countries) or the excessive use of psychotic medicines. These two things alone I believe fuel the vast majority of the overall violence we experience. Our country is going nuts, literally.
This is further backed by the fact that when you look at the actual CDC numbers, roughly 2/3's of gun related deaths are due to suicide. People need help mentally.
To simplify things by saying guns=murder/suicide is a shallow, and in all honesty, a rather dumb way of looking at things. It is much more complex than that. The biggest influences are going to be the illegal drug trade, the strength of families (i.e. the social environment people are growing up in), the economy, and even law enforcement responses (which are also factored in to gun deaths). I personally believe that even the media; movies, video games, music, etc. have an effect, but that's just my personal belief.
I mean what if I were to say, I don't drink alcohol, maybe it should be outlawed. There needs to be much more control over it. It's only there to serve one purpose and that is to make people intoxicated. To what degree of intoxication is up to the person consuming it, but most people are irresponsible as we've already determined in this and other threads. When you use it as it is intended you will be inebriated. Since 100% of drunk driving deaths are related to people using this substance, I think it should be outlawed.
While we're at it, they should outlaw smoking. That is one thing that will for sure kill you eventually when used as intended. Not to mention, I don't care how fucking responsible you are, when you're breathing out that shitty smoke, you are putting my life and my families life at risk. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/
I almost wish bad things on people that drink and/or smoke, but I don't have to because everyday I'm reading about people either drinking themselves to death, dying of lung cancer, killing moms, dads, teenagers, infants, entire families on the highway because they were driving while drunk. Maybe these people should die before they have the chance to hurt others. That is how asinine his statements are.
you may add that drunks not even driving down the highway are harming their own families while being a at home drunk. some at home drunks are violent & beat on their spouse & children. some drunks have actually killed their family members by being total fucking assholes. that is a situation cops are not at all thrilled to be in; domestic violence... bad stuff & unpredicable
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
You mentioned the mental illness and medicine aspects; the latter scares me (almost! - and oh how I'm coming to loathe that word :P ) more than the former. I can't even say how many ads I see every damned day with warnings about drastic changes in behavior, mood swings, suicidal thoughts. I mean shit, someone just wants a good night's sleep or lower their cholesterol.
Somewhere, in-between the all-or-none mindsets, I hope good judgment and reason prevail - not only in legislation but in action as well.
Neo Nazi's
KKK
Black Panthers.
most hardcore "pro family" groups
Islamists
Cat lovers
rapists
pedophiles
Hipsters
centefield from where im standing.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
To overlook the fact that the US is the most armed country in the world (by far) and yields the most deaths by gunfire (by far) yields either the most extreme case of denial or a mental deficiency.
I would agree that there are complicating factors that contribute to these deaths, but the problems you have cited exist in other countries in the same capacity as well... yet these same countries do not have the epidemic of gun violence that the US features.
Smoking is one of the goofiest habits out there, but when it was determined that second hand smoke was harmful to others... smokers were not permitted to smoke around others in public places. A measure was taken to safeguard innocents and this was a fair measure.
Right now... it's essentially carte blanche for gun enthusiasts and there have been no uniform and effective measures taken to safeguard your school children and movie goers. At a minimum... limit the types of weapons people can access and limit the types of people who can access guns. Don't provide the necessary tools for these 'kooks' to do their bidding.
I asked before and it was ignored: if taking these types of measures prevent one tragedy... wouldn't they be worth it? I also asked what the over/under might be before the next national tragedy? It is inevitable, correct?
You are correct that the civilian population in the United States owns more guns than any other civilian population in the world. But Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, and Colombia have more gun related deaths than in the United States.
I dislike their methods.
I do not support them.
I do support their Constitutional right to speak.
...i also do not think they have used guns at any of their gatherings.[/quote]
Neo Nazi's
KKK
Black Panthers.
most hardcore "pro family" groups
Islamists
Cat lovers
rapists
pedophiles
Hipsters[/quote]
....well being that i am 13% of this list. Your wish is to cause me harm?
I stand corrected. The US has Mexico beat.
To make the point I was trying to make, look at the following rates for a comparison to some other countries than Mexico and Colombia:
Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop
US 2.97 per 100,000 (88.8 firearms per 100 people)
Canada 0.51 per 100,000 (30.8 firearms per 100 people)
England and Wales 0.07 per 100,000 (6.2 firearms per 100 people)
Australia 0.14 per 100,000 (15 firearms per 100 people)
Germany 0.19 per 100,000 (30.3 firearms per 100 people)
New Zealand 0.16 per 100,000 (22.6 firearms per 100 people)
Norway 0.05 per 100,000 (31.3 firearms per 100 people)
Sweden 0.41 per 100,000 (31.6 firearms per 100 people)
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... world-list
More guns. More deaths by guns.
To say the US leads in gun related deaths (by far) shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. If you really want to see what gun control gets you, just look at Brazil (I could have also used Chicago as an example). Brazil is one of the world leaders in gun related murders...and they have also had some of the most strict gun control laws in the western hemisphere since 2003.
So how is that possible? How can a country that doesn't allow you to carry a gun outside your house, own a gun without having it registered, severely restricts who can buy and sell guns, and enforces extensive background checks lead the world in gun related violence? It goes to one of my main points with regard to US gun violence...the illegal drug trade. Do you think criminals here give one single fuck what the NRA says? They will be in business and armed to the teeth no matter what legislation is passed, just like they are in Brazil.
Criminals will get guns, no matter what you think you might do to stop them, they will still have them. Let's not forget, the vast majority of gun related homicides can be traced directly to criminal activity. Please give me the total number of NRA members and legally licensed carriers that are responsible for mass murders and street violence in the last decade. Based on what Eddie and others say, the number should be staggering...I'll be waiting patiently for the answer.
I see you addressed the smoking issue haphazardly but you didn't touch on my alcohol argument and the damage that it does. Which statistically is a much bigger problem than gun violence and is easily preventable. Wouldn't saving one person's life be worth the elimination of alcohol? If it kept one more drunk driver off the road, or one more lunatic from beating his wife to death, wouldn't it be worth it? I realize how stupid the analogy is, but it doesn't make the point any less valid.
You ask if taking restrictive measures would be worth it if it prevents one tragedy...the same could be argued if carrying a weapon for protection kept you or someone else from being killed wouldn't that be worth it? People here can argue that guns are hardly used in self-defense and the CDC data would prove you wrong. So are you saying that people who carry, are not worth saving? Are their lives not as important?
I agree that there is no need for assault rifles or 30-round mags...that's just stupid...and yes those should be outlawed. I support gun rights in the event of using them for hunting, and a small hand gun for personal protection, if properly trained, certified and only after receiving a comprehensive background check. I believe there should be a balance between trying to find the cause of why our country is going insane, and establishing laws that limit the firepower people are allowed to have access to.
I do not want to be equal to them.
The bad guys will get the good stuff.
Lets take Venezuela for example, it has a smaller population than the United States. Its government has outlawed private ownership of guns...but yet has more deaths from guns.
I do agree that we do need better gun laws and background checks. I think someone before had mentioned mental health treatment earlier. I think we should be able to talk about the issues and find solutions. I feel that we, as a society, are ready to point a finger instead of finding common ground and solutions. This is what happens when lobbyists and groups such as the NRA get in the way of the people. But that is another topic. One of my closest friends is a progressive liberal democrat who I have argued about the 2nd amendment trillions of times. I think he and I can come up with a solution but we are willing to talk about our disagreements and not have hate or disdain for each other at the end.
Then why are we arguing? We agree on the same thing.
I posted some statistics (that I have used before) to speak of the point I was trying to make. Maybe you would like to offer something towards them? I'm pretty sure the countries I offered for comparison are a more appropriate comparison than Honduras, Brazil or Mexico.
This was the only portion of the post I wish to comment on.
There was a significant correlation between guns per head per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths with Japan being on one end of the spectrum and the US being on the other. This argues against the notion of more guns translating into less crime. South Africa was the only outlier in that the observed firearms-related death rate was several times higher than expected from gun ownership."
High rates of mental illness in any country, on the other hand, did not predict more gun deaths.
"Although correlation is not the same as causation, it seems conceivable that abundant gun availability facilitates firearm-related deaths. Conversely, high crime rates may instigate widespread anxiety and fear, thereby motivating people to arm themselves and give rise to increased gun ownership, which, in turn, increases availability. The resulting vicious cycle could, bit by bit, lead to the polarized status that is now the case with the US," the doctors write.
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... aths-study
This isn't the same thing as people being irresponsible with guns. Someone sitting around drinking and smoking isn't putting anyone at risk (except for second hand smoke). I guess you're going to tell me you haven't had the thought of wanting to punch someone in the teeth when they act in a way that puts others at risk? This is essentially what Ed is saying.
I'm not sure why the gun people are upset by what he said. How many times in the gun threads do the gun owners talk about how responsible they are with their guns? It's my take that Ed is referring to irresponsible gun owners, e.g. his reference to guns lying around. Shouldn't responsible gun owners be in agreement with Ed on this one?
EDDIE VEDDER, PEARL JAM: You know, this day and age, whether the world’s gone absolutely fucking crazy mad, I think in some ways you’re trying to provide even yourself some glimmer of hope. You know, the fact that we're living in a country where 90 percent of the people want further gun laws to maybe somehow put a dent in some of this insanity that's happening, and yet there's no further legislation taking place. It's very frustrating and upsetting. And if I didn't have music to kind of at least get some of the aggression out or take the edge off, I think that you wouldn't want me having a gun either.
And it’s such a bizarre thing that issue too because, bottom line, they can talk about defending their home or it’s based in the Constitution when, you know, again, when that was put in the Constitution, you know, it took about three and a half minutes to load one pellet into a barrel with powder and the whole thing. So, you know, those laws are antiquated, and the fact that we have, you know, 30 bullet magazines and this, that, and the other thing. And really, the best argument that I can hear, or the one that they have outside of, you know, being in the Constitution is that it’s fun. It’s fun. And so is driving at night at 95 miles an hour.
I get so angry that I almost wish bad things upon these people. But I don't have to because it seems like they happen anyways. It seems like every week I'm reading about a 4-year-old either shooting their sister, their dad, their dog, or their brother or themselves, because there's fucking guns laying around. But I guess it's fun.
I used the label irresponsible. Do you think it's responsible to have guns laying around or not? He also qualified wishing ill will on others with "almost". To me, that's a brief spontaneous thought vs. a drawn out fantasy.
So he states that he gets angry at people that say its fun to shoot guns and then "almost" wishes bad things on them. And I don't know how spontaneous his thought was because he also states " if I didn't have music to kind of at least get some of the aggression out or take the edge off, I think that you wouldn't want me having a gun either." Thats a bold statement.
My point is, I feel that it is not right to wish ill on others just because they believe in something different than there own. Its ok to disagree, not ok to wish horrible things or almost wish horrible things onto others.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
you mean he doesn't sound very stable & seems aggressive?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Because everyone has one, like assholes.
the guy that's against guns and violence in general in unstable
but the people that are so lost in their paranoia that they need to have a deadly weapon with them at all times are completely sane
wow, just fucking wow
And again I don't know why we are going off topic and talking about other people " lost in their paranoia that they need to have a deadly weapon with them at all times". I am not talking about that issue. There is another message board for that. If you want my answer to that well, no they seem unstable too.
i am 100% positive ed is very stable not at all aggressive towards others. he may feel aggression in himself, that is good, that is why he is an artist. he writes & creates music & he paints & fucks around on a surf board.
you have nothing to be afraid of
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
watch the whole thing
@ 5:36 it is so fucking on
for the OP
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
It's not unstable, it's being honest. No one who's angry should have a gun on them. I wonder how many gun owners would be willing to admit that about themselves.
I wonder how many people in jail wished they had never owned a gun? We've seen it too many times: a guy loses his anger, a gun is used, and a victim is dead.
How can anyone argue that having more guns is a wise thing? I like how nobody has addressed the study I linked in this thread. The one that states the obvious: more guns equals more deaths by guns.