If you're muslim you can leave, dead if not

badbrains

PJ_Soul wrote:

badbrains wrote:

It's up to god. Not up to me or anyone or thing else. But I hope we all do, even GF. And especially eddie!

Yeah, but according to the religion what happens?

I did tell you, it's up to god. I'm not god. I was taught growing up that it's ultimately up to god who goes and doesn't. I mean lets be serious here, if a person is so pure and good, always charitable, kind, everything good, but yet has no faith, I can't picture any god NOT letting that person in. Let's be real. I would hope my god would have some feeling for this person, would want to show him heaven, show him that there's a god, reward him for being good not just because someone worshipped me (god) These religions came hundreds of years ago and some even longer. Interpretations of all religions can get screwed with over time.

On a lighter note, can we all just take a break, break up some killer Kush, and breath in any breath out. Lets all relax and forget all this anger towards each other. There's enough hatred in this small planet of ours that we dnt need to add anymore. I dnt give a fuck if you're Muslim, Christian, jew or atheist, I only care what's inside of you as a person. In reality, we're only here for a very short time "together." Shit, I'm guilty of it as much as the next. I get into it with GF and Areil all the fucken time. It isn't because I hate them but it's because the stuff they say I feel is doing more wrong then right in the situation. I'm sure deep down they're good people. They just have diff views and I had to accept that. The world is changing at a pace that no one can have ever thought. Wars are a common way of life for the world and that's sickening. So many of you that I would love to meet and just chil with before a show. Wether I agree with your views or not, the 1 common thing we share is pearl jam. And that my friends, is one bad motherfucking thing!!!!! Wow, this Kush is making me babble...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

g under p wrote:

fuck wrote:

Jesus Christ. Where to begin.

First of all, let's clear something up here: none of you, it seems, have even gone through the trouble of looking through the Quran yourself, let alone actual texts written about Islam from even Western scholars. Instead, you are asking another member of the forum to do the work for you and explain it to you.

Fine. badbrains is incorrect, I'm afraid. "Infidel" first of all is not even an accurate translation of the word from the Quran, which is "kafir." A kafir is not simply an infidel. The most accurate explanation is that it's someone who tries to cover "the truth." In fact, the english word "cover" comes from the arabic word "kafir." In other words, it's a person who is actively persecuting your ability to practice and preach your religion. This is because the people living in Mecca during the 7th century were not simply allowing the prophet to preach, but then he was trying to kill them all.

Let me take a break here: one of the biggest problems with Islamic radicals is that they take verses from the Quran, and reports on what the Prophet did out of the historical context and try to apply it in modern day. Unfortunately, that is also what many of you are doing, which is why you are allowing Islamic radicals the ability to shape the religion, because people in the West are just so obsessed with looking at ONLY those guys. In fact, someone in this thread said something along the lines of 'it's not relevant to talk about moderate Muslims,' and that essentially we should only be talking about radicals, which is absolutely absurd.

Anyway, going back to the prophet. What people don't realize is that as he spent 23 years spreading Islam, the first 13 of those years were not just exclusively nonviolent, but he specifically prohibited any armed resistance to the persecution people were facing who converted to Islam: this included torture, killings, isolation which would often lead to starvation in tribal societies, etc. Like the Christian reports of Jesus, he advocated a "turn the other cheek" philosophy for 13 years. It was not until he moved to Medina that eventually they began engaging the Meccans militarily. And even in those instances, killings of women, children, elderly, etc., were prohibited: for more on this, you can read about the conquest of Mecca in 630 which was bloodless. Ultimately, without trying to bore you people with too much history, it was specific instances that the Quran sanctioned the use of warfare: when people are persecuting you, "driving you from your homes" (a literal quote in reference to the fact that the Muslims had to leave Mecca for Medina), etc.

Islam actually takes a very practical approach to these types of situations, which is why it does not completely outlaw warfare. But to argue that it advocates targeting any person who simply does not believe in God is so absurd and has literally no religious OR historical basis. In fact, for hundreds of years the Islamic world was by far the most pluralistic and accepting society, especially in light of the horrible crimes that were going on in Europe.

When Europe began its colonization efforts in the Muslim world, they began implementing many types of policies that began discriminating against the indigenous Muslims. The capitulations that were instituted are by far some of the most obvious examples in the different countries (Tunisia, Algeria, etc), or how they began granting certain religious groups citizenship while denying others (such as the French allowing Jews in Algeria citizenship but not Muslims). These policies that the Europeans were instituting in the 19th and 20th centuries are important because it's what would shape the way religious groups in the Muslim world began interacting with each other: yes, they were political (and economic/resource-oriented) policies, but they were still made on the basis of religious identity. This is why we can't simply try to create distinctions between what is "religious" and what is "political" or "economic" or whatever. It doesn't work that way. Religious identity is a part of society, it's a part of how people view themselves as individuals, as a community, as a nation, etc. It directly plays into politics. And the Europeans exploited it and instituted a 'divide and conquer' strategy, which is why countries like Lebanon now have such horrible animosity between their various religious groups (Christians, Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims, etc). The 1975 civil war there was a direct result of the colonial practices of the Europeans. There's also the issue of the state of Israel, a state constructed for Jews and created by ethnically cleansing Muslim and Christian Palestinians--this act was and is defended vigorously to this day by Western powers, even as it continues.

I know there are tons of colonial apologists here who think it's nonsense to "blame" everything that happens today on colonialism. Good thing none of you actually know shit about history or Middle Eastern politics though, cause if you did then you might actually have to deconstruct the bullshit worldview you've been living that vindicates the West of any wrongdoing so you can try to live happily ever after in a "post-colonial" world.

In today's world, we have actually convinced ourselves that the problem with Islam is that it, in and of itself, inspires individuals to commit these horrendous acts, whereas when it comes to Western governments, they simply do horrible things for typical human reasons (greed, etc). How is it that you've actually been able to convince yourself of this, I have no clue, but obviously indoctrination from the media plays a huge role. For instance, none of you care to question why the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world lives peacefully--are they just practicing their religion incorrectly? Are they just overlooking certain parts of their religion that are more "brutal" and that's what makes them so peaceful? So, only the radicals are the ones who are technically practicing it correctly?

This is the problem, again, of allowing radical muslims to shape your view of the religion. Many of you blame Muslim leaders and individuals for not standing up to these radicals as the reason. The problem is that someone in this thread said we can't say the US is spreading Christianity without looking up what different Christian organizations say. Well how many of you actually cared to look up what various elements in Muslim societies say? I don't think any of you have, seeing as how none of you have even cared to open up a Quran or read any credible source on Islam.

The fact is, the radicals did this act in Kenya not for religious reasons, but for various other ones. Yes, they find religious justification, and they try to win over religious favor by doing stupid things like "if you're Muslim leave," etc., but Muslims died by their gunfire too. The fact is, al-Shabab themselves said this was done because of Kenya infringing on Somalian sovereignty before--i.e., a political reason.

The Western religion, Liberalism, has been abused for centuries to justify going to several countries and killing millions of people. But no one ever says liberalism is to blame--it's just been "abused." Well, Islam has been abused. And the reason you hear about it so often is largely because the Muslim world has been at the forefront of several invasions from Western powers for years--not to save them from themselves, but for the West's gain. Add to this the delicate history of the past couple hundred years since colonialism as well, and you have a very troubling scenario. Muslim leaders are trying to speak out, but the problem is that the moment they condemn Islamic radicals AND Western/Israeli invasions and crimes, they are isolated and condemned by Western media. The binary of "Good Muslim/Bad Muslim" means you either support the U.S. and Israel, or you are 'one of them.' This is the reality on the ground. Muslims are spied on and persecuted by the U.S. government in this country for speaking out against crimes committed by the government and by Israel--and they are repressed in their own societies by autocratic governments that are supported by the U.S. (like Saudi).

So what's the solution to this horrible mess? I doubt any of you have one. It's way too complicated. So if you don't have a solution, kindly shut the hell up and stop trashing an entire religion that has over a billion followers.

I've missed a lot but I'm sure glad I read that history lesson. Well done fuck thanks for taking the time to explain just a little about this complicated subject. I hope others can gain some perspective.

Peace

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

PJ_Soul

badbrains wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

badbrains wrote:

It's up to god. Not up to me or anyone or thing else. But I hope we all do, even GF. And especially eddie!

Yeah, but according to the religion what happens?

I did tell you, it's up to god. I'm not god. I was taught growing up that it's ultimately up to god who goes and doesn't. I mean lets be serious here, if a person is so pure and good, always charitable, kind, everything good, but yet has no faith, I can't picture any god NOT letting that person in. Let's be real. I would hope my god would have some feeling for this person, would want to show him heaven, show him that there's a god, reward him for being good not just because someone worshipped me (god) These religions came hundreds of years ago and some even longer. Interpretations of all religions can get screwed with over time.

On a lighter note, can we all just take a break, break up some killer Kush, and breath in any breath out. Lets all relax and forget all this anger towards each other. There's enough hatred in this small planet of ours that we dnt need to add anymore. I dnt give a fuck if you're Muslim, Christian, jew or atheist, I only care what's inside of you as a person. In reality, we're only here for a very short time "together." Shit, I'm guilty of it as much as the next. I get into it with GF and Areil all the fucken time. It isn't because I hate them but it's because the stuff they say I feel is doing more wrong then right in the situation. I'm sure deep down they're good people. They just have diff views and I had to accept that. The world is changing at a pace that no one can have ever thought. Wars are a common way of life for the world and that's sickening. So many of you that I would love to meet and just chil with before a show. Wether I agree with your views or not, the 1 common thing we share is pearl jam. And that my friends, is one bad motherfucking thing!!!!! Wow, this Kush is making me babble...

I've got no hate. Just having a heated conversation here. I think that's a positive thing, but then some people hate conflict a lot more than I do.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Slightly on topic (and for those bothering to read)...

A Born Again Christian once told me that I would be denied Heaven unless I accepted Christ into my life.

I posed the following to him: if a savage, multiple murderer accepted Christ into his life while on his death bed... and- without ever hurting anyone or anything- I was in a car accident and never got around to 'accepting Christ into my life'... the murderer would go to Heaven and I would go to Hell?

He replied, "Yes."

To which I replied, "Then you can have Heaven."

* As a kid, I was reared somewhat in awe of God who sounded splendid. Kids are very impressionable. But I managed to conclude that the story I was told as a child didn't add up. The answers to the following questions were never answered to my satisfaction:

Who made God?
Where is he?
How does he see everything?
Why doesn't he 'refresh' himself and make himself known to mankind again?
How does he allow for some of the atrocities we experience to occur without intervention?
Whos' the God of the planet we cannot see 5,000,000 billion miles from here that sustains life just like ours?

I formulated a crude theory that religion seemed to be a way of controlling or appeasing the masses. The irony of fat cats within the church system indulging in luxury, while at the same time telling peasants to work the land and embrace simple was too much. I feel badly for those that slaved away, waiting for the afterlife which was never to come. They got duped. The one crack they had at life was spent dreaming of the next one which was never to come.

I still found myself wanting to believe, but eventually Science and the behaviours of some devout religious types made the idea of religion distasteful to me. I won't lie, there is a small flame inside me that does flicker every now and then... but it is very faint and whenever it does flicker... I dismiss it as residual activity that existed within me when I was a child.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

badbrains wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

badbrains wrote:

It's up to god. Not up to me or anyone or thing else. But I hope we all do, even GF. And especially eddie!

Yeah, but according to the religion what happens?

I did tell you, it's up to god. I'm not god. I was taught growing up that it's ultimately up to god who goes and doesn't. I mean lets be serious here, if a person is so pure and good, always charitable, kind, everything good, but yet has no faith, I can't picture any god NOT letting that person in. Let's be real. I would hope my god would have some feeling for this person, would want to show him heaven, show him that there's a god, reward him for being good not just because someone worshipped me (god) These religions came hundreds of years ago and some even longer. Interpretations of all religions can get screwed with over time.

On a lighter note, can we all just take a break, break up some killer Kush, and breath in any breath out. Lets all relax and forget all this anger towards each other. There's enough hatred in this small planet of ours that we dnt need to add anymore. I dnt give a fuck if you're Muslim, Christian, jew or atheist, I only care what's inside of you as a person. In reality, we're only here for a very short time "together." Shit, I'm guilty of it as much as the next. I get into it with GF and Areil all the fucken time. It isn't because I hate them but it's because the stuff they say I feel is doing more wrong then right in the situation. I'm sure deep down they're good people. They just have diff views and I had to accept that. The world is changing at a pace that no one can have ever thought. Wars are a common way of life for the world and that's sickening. So many of you that I would love to meet and just chil with before a show. Wether I agree with your views or not, the 1 common thing we share is pearl jam. And that my friends, is one bad motherfucking thing!!!!! Wow, this Kush is making me babble...

And BadBrains... I wish to add that I really value your comments and opinions on this board. I particularly liked one private exchange where we shared a laugh!

Regardless of everyone's background which has shaped their current position... the people on this board are people that care and not people we need to worry about. It's nice that racists, muslims, gays, Christians, Greeks, Canadians, and Byrnzies can exchange dialogue on common ground.

This forum can be a cool place.

fuck

badbrains wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

badbrains wrote:

It's up to god. Not up to me or anyone or thing else. But I hope we all do, even GF. And especially eddie!

Yeah, but according to the religion what happens?

I did tell you, it's up to god. I'm not god. I was taught growing up that it's ultimately up to god who goes and doesn't. I mean lets be serious here, if a person is so pure and good, always charitable, kind, everything good, but yet has no faith, I can't picture any god NOT letting that person in. Let's be real. I would hope my god would have some feeling for this person, would want to show him heaven, show him that there's a god, reward him for being good not just because someone worshipped me (god) These religions came hundreds of years ago and some even longer. Interpretations of all religions can get screwed with over time.

There is a report attributed to the Prophet Muhammad where he told a story: Apparently a man had murdered many, many people (I think nearly 100). One of these people was a monk who, before the man killed him, told the man that the reason he is killing so much is because he does not have inner peace (or some shit like that, I don't remember exactly what it was). In any case, the monk told the man to go seek a place or a specific person in I think Syria that would help him. The man disregarded the monk's advice and killed him any way. A while later the man had grown tired of his constant crazy lifestyle and murders, remembered the monk's advice and decided to follow through with it. On his way to this place however he died. The Prophet said that although the man had committed horrible murders (which according to the Quran killing one person is as if killing all of mankind), the moment the man had taken one step in the direction to this place, God forgave him and granted him a place in heaven.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Slightly on topic (and for those bothering to read)...

A Born Again Christian once told me that I would be denied Heaven unless I accepted Christ into my life.

I posed the following to him: if a savage, multiple murderer accepted Christ into his life while on his death bed... and- without ever hurting anyone or anything- I was in a car accident and never got around to 'accepting Christ into my life'... the murderer would go to Heaven and I would go to Hell?

He replied, "Yes."

To which I replied, "Then you can have Heaven."

* As a kid, I was reared somewhat in awe of God who sounded splendid. Kids are very impressionable. But I managed to conclude that the story I was told as a child didn't add up. The answers to the following questions were never answered to my satisfaction:

Who made God?
Where is he?
How does he see everything?
Why doesn't he 'refresh' himself and make himself known to mankind again?
How does he allow for some of the atrocities we experience to occur without intervention?
Whos' the God of the planet we cannot see 5,000,000 billion miles from here that sustains life just like ours?

I formulated a crude theory that religion seemed to be a way of controlling or appeasing the masses. The irony of fat cats within the church system indulging in luxury, while at the same time telling peasants to work the land and embrace simple was too much. I feel badly for those that slaved away, waiting for the afterlife which was never to come. They got duped. The one crack they had at life was spent dreaming of the next one which was never to come.

I still found myself wanting to believe, but eventually Science and the behaviours of some devout religious types made the idea of religion distasteful to me. I won't lie, there is a small flame inside me that does flicker every now and then... but it is very faint and whenever it does flicker... I dismiss it as residual activity that existed within me when I was a child.

it's like you are me in this post. unbelievable.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Slightly on topic (and for those bothering to read)...

A Born Again Christian once told me that I would be denied Heaven unless I accepted Christ into my life.

I posed the following to him: if a savage, multiple murderer accepted Christ into his life while on his death bed... and- without ever hurting anyone or anything- I was in a car accident and never got around to 'accepting Christ into my life'... the murderer would go to Heaven and I would go to Hell?

He replied, "Yes."

To which I replied, "Then you can have Heaven."

* As a kid, I was reared somewhat in awe of God who sounded splendid. Kids are very impressionable. But I managed to conclude that the story I was told as a child didn't add up. The answers to the following questions were never answered to my satisfaction:

Who made God?
Where is he?
How does he see everything?
Why doesn't he 'refresh' himself and make himself known to mankind again?
How does he allow for some of the atrocities we experience to occur without intervention?
Whos' the God of the planet we cannot see 5,000,000 billion miles from here that sustains life just like ours?

I formulated a crude theory that religion seemed to be a way of controlling or appeasing the masses. The irony of fat cats within the church system indulging in luxury, while at the same time telling peasants to work the land and embrace simple was too much. I feel badly for those that slaved away, waiting for the afterlife which was never to come. They got duped. The one crack they had at life was spent dreaming of the next one which was never to come.

I still found myself wanting to believe, but eventually Science and the behaviours of some devout religious types made the idea of religion distasteful to me. I won't lie, there is a small flame inside me that does flicker every now and then... but it is very faint and whenever it does flicker... I dismiss it as residual activity that existed within me when I was a child.

I would also argue that religion is indeed a way of controlling the masses, and was created by those who wanted to do so in order to solidify and maintain their own power and control, and I believe that theory is backed up by hard cold historical fact. It's not like the Christian and Muslim faiths are very old. It's not like the history surrounding the development by man of both faiths isn't accessible to us.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Muhammad looks a helluva lot like Jesus, don'tchya think?

PJ_Soul

badbrains wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

badbrains wrote:

It's up to god. Not up to me or anyone or thing else. But I hope we all do, even GF. And especially eddie!

Yeah, but according to the religion what happens?

I did tell you, it's up to god. I'm not god. I was taught growing up that it's ultimately up to god who goes and doesn't. I mean lets be serious here, if a person is so pure and good, always charitable, kind, everything good, but yet has no faith, I can't picture any god NOT letting that person in. Let's be real. I would hope my god would have some feeling for this person, would want to show him heaven, show him that there's a god, reward him for being good not just because someone worshipped me (god) These religions came hundreds of years ago and some even longer. Interpretations of all religions can get screwed with over time.

But I just read on the internet that, according to the Muslim faith, you can only go to Heaven if you accept God (Allah) and accept the prophet of the time (and the prophet of the time is Mohammad)......... Maybe some can ignore the part about the prophet of the time thing, but I find it hard to believe that the Muslim faith states that those who do not accept Allah (God) at the time of death can still go to Heaven. So Atheists and Buddhists and Hindus can't go to Heaven according to the Muslim faith, even in the most loose interpretation of it, and in the more strict one, no one but those who accept Mohammad as well before death can go .... Hey, by all means, change it up as you see fit on a personal level. More power to you. But I'm pretty sure an Imam or a strict Muslim isn't going to be telling me I can go to Heaven without accepting Allah (and probably Mohammad) before I die..... Just as I can't go to Heaven before accepting Jesus into my heart according to several Christian sects. I mean, if everyone could go to Heaven just by being good and their religion had nothing to do with it, there wouldn't be any organized religion. The whole central point of organized religion is to follow certain tenants so that you can get into Heaven.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Slightly on topic (and for those bothering to read)...

A Born Again Christian once told me that I would be denied Heaven unless I accepted Christ into my life.

I posed the following to him: if a savage, multiple murderer accepted Christ into his life while on his death bed... and- without ever hurting anyone or anything- I was in a car accident and never got around to 'accepting Christ into my life'... the murderer would go to Heaven and I would go to Hell?

He replied, "Yes."

To which I replied, "Then you can have Heaven."

* As a kid, I was reared somewhat in awe of God who sounded splendid. Kids are very impressionable. But I managed to conclude that the story I was told as a child didn't add up. The answers to the following questions were never answered to my satisfaction:

Who made God?
Where is he?
How does he see everything?
Why doesn't he 'refresh' himself and make himself known to mankind again?
How does he allow for some of the atrocities we experience to occur without intervention?
Whos' the God of the planet we cannot see 5,000,000 billion miles from here that sustains life just like ours?

I formulated a crude theory that religion seemed to be a way of controlling or appeasing the masses. The irony of fat cats within the church system indulging in luxury, while at the same time telling peasants to work the land and embrace simple was too much. I feel badly for those that slaved away, waiting for the afterlife which was never to come. They got duped. The one crack they had at life was spent dreaming of the next one which was never to come.

I still found myself wanting to believe, but eventually Science and the behaviours of some devout religious types made the idea of religion distasteful to me. I won't lie, there is a small flame inside me that does flicker every now and then... but it is very faint and whenever it does flicker... I dismiss it as residual activity that existed within me when I was a child.

it's like you are me in this post. unbelievable.

Nice to know I'm not alone with such an uneasy transition. It wasn't done easily. It required much soul searching. There was a period where I felt much guilt and anxiety- shows you how impressionable children are.

PJ_Soul

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Muhammad looks a helluva lot like Jesus, don'tchya think?

I think you might have just committed a sin.

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Slightly on topic (and for those bothering to read)...

A Born Again Christian once told me that I would be denied Heaven unless I accepted Christ into my life.

I posed the following to him: if a savage, multiple murderer accepted Christ into his life while on his death bed... and- without ever hurting anyone or anything- I was in a car accident and never got around to 'accepting Christ into my life'... the murderer would go to Heaven and I would go to Hell?

He replied, "Yes."

To which I replied, "Then you can have Heaven."

* As a kid, I was reared somewhat in awe of God who sounded splendid. Kids are very impressionable. But I managed to conclude that the story I was told as a child didn't add up. The answers to the following questions were never answered to my satisfaction:

Who made God?
Where is he?
How does he see everything?
Why doesn't he 'refresh' himself and make himself known to mankind again?
How does he allow for some of the atrocities we experience to occur without intervention?
Whos' the God of the planet we cannot see 5,000,000 billion miles from here that sustains life just like ours?

I formulated a crude theory that religion seemed to be a way of controlling or appeasing the masses. The irony of fat cats within the church system indulging in luxury, while at the same time telling peasants to work the land and embrace simple was too much. I feel badly for those that slaved away, waiting for the afterlife which was never to come. They got duped. The one crack they had at life was spent dreaming of the next one which was never to come.

I still found myself wanting to believe, but eventually Science and the behaviours of some devout religious types made the idea of religion distasteful to me. I won't lie, there is a small flame inside me that does flicker every now and then... but it is very faint and whenever it does flicker... I dismiss it as residual activity that existed within me when I was a child.

it's like you are me in this post. unbelievable.

Nice to know I'm not alone with such an uneasy transition. It wasn't done easily. It required much soul searching. There was a period where I felt much guilt and anxiety- shows you how impressionable children are.

It has definitely got to be hard to get over being brainwashed from a young age.... Most people never get over religious brainwashing, so good for you!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul wrote:

It has definitely got to be hard to get over being brainwashed from a young age.... Most people never get over religious brainwashing, so good for you!

I did this in my early teens and I wasn't from a family that was strict and devout which made it easier. People questioning their faith in more rigid families would have a much harder time finding peace outside of religion than I did.

My 'struggles' were internal and came from dealing with the void that was left after abandoning religion.

badbrains

I'm sorry u feel that way pj soul, but you're wrong. Your view is that of an extremist view of Islam. Again, NO ONE BUT god judges who goes to heaven. That's it, plain and simple. Go to any true Muslim and he/she will have no problem stating what I said. My uncle practices the religion and he has NO PROBLEM with me having a "catholic" girl friend or even have a problem with me marrying her. I'm telling you, you're wrong. But it's ok, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to toke with ya!

ThirtyBills and HFD, crazy, back in 94 I had a conversation in college with a born again Christian. Ironically he made the somewhat same statement as your person did. He said he has no doubt he's going to heaven and that sadly he thought my religion was the religion of the devil. Funny thing is, I ditnt get mad or angry, chuckled a bit, and got to know him. He and I talked all the time at college with no problems. After the semister, we had a talk and I wished him well in his journey of life. He looked at me and basically said, I would've never thought I would've sat next to a Muslim all semister and get along with you. He said I opened his eyes to judge the person on the inside, to find the real person, not the one he was taught "knowing". Guy was pretty cool for a redneck from Cali. Full blown ex-junkie cowboy country boy born again Christian from mid Cali.

Dirtie_Frank

PJ_Soul wrote:

I guess so. Canada did not go to Iraq. About 100 Cdn exchange officers went there and were embedded with the American military during the initial invasion for training and experience purposes, and that's it.... I guess it's possible that you happened to see one of these 100 or so people there during the whole of the Iraq war, but I doubt it.
Canada did go to Afghanistan of course, and had a large presence there.

I stand corrected I appologize.

Pingfah

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

It has definitely got to be hard to get over being brainwashed from a young age.... Most people never get over religious brainwashing, so good for you!

I did this in my early teens and I wasn't from a family that was strict and devout which made it easier. People questioning their faith in more rigid families would have a much harder time finding peace outside of religion than I did.

My 'struggles' were internal and came from dealing with the void that was left after abandoning religion.

My experience was a little different. I was trotted out to Sunday School and all that when I was a child, and enrolled in a Christian youth group as a teen, but I just never felt it, or anything related to it. People would talk about their "relationship" with God, and I would never have any idea what they were talking about. So I don't think I ever really believed in it. I certainly didn't feel a void when I left it behind. I was just glad not to have to go any more.

Like you though, my parents were not strictly religious, and my Father now tells me he never believed it himself, they just sent me because that's what you did in the 80s. So I think I subconsciously picked up on my Fathers unspoken disbelief, and that guided me itself.

even flow - question mark

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Muhammad looks a helluva lot like Jesus, don'tchya think?

I kinda liked the portrayal on South Park better then this posed picture of him.

Jason P

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Muhammad looks a helluva lot like Jesus, don'tchya think?

Careful now with any pictures of the prophet. Are you trying to get us on a hit list?

ajedigecko

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."


Is this out of context?