WOW! have you ever met a person who has been raped? It is post like this that explains why many people have a hard time reporting rapes.
You do realize the answer to my question is...
A. The Father/Parent
and you would be wrong. the rapist is the person to blame first and foremost. you know the person who actually committed the crime.
I know this sounds tricky but believe me its true.
Your quote left out my Rapist part of the answer.....[/quote]
thats because you edited the post.
now concerning your othe rpost. I agree and most people here have agreed that the kid should have not been out that late. the difference is that you have put all the blame on the parent and none on the shooter.
Im not saying anywhere that parent committed a crime. What I'm trying to get across to everyone is that accountability needs to be taken here. The parents are not guilty of shooting the three year old, they are accountable for his/her whereabouts and well being. Its called parenting. And if your put your child in a gangbanging situation or a rape situation, you should be held accountable as well.
This story is twisting out of control.
It's easy to say how people living in gang-infested neighbourhoods should live their lives from the comfort of suburbia. If Chicago and the US are comfortable saying people should just stay in at night instead of tackling the real issue, then there is a serious problem with regards to perpsective. The answer to the problem should not be strategies to cope with the reality that nobody can do anything about... it should be how do you curb the violence?
If the situation is as bleak as some Chicagoites have painted... then it is likely time to take measures and reclaim the 'south side' from the criminals that dominate it- forcing people inside their homes after dark.
The dad can be accused of making poor parental choices just as the parents in question can be; but the crime is 100% the responsibility of the person who committed it. Get real, man. Geezuz.
Wait a minute, my entire case on this thread was a poor parenting choice, now you are agreeing with me?
I re-read all of my posts to be sure but I fail to see exactly where I blamed the parents, my point was that the parent did not exhibit good decision making abilities. That or they were just plain stupid.
If a father dressed his daughter in a short skirt, paraded her in front of convicted rapists, turned his back........who should get most of the blame. Parent brings his three year old to a park of gang bangers, past dark, lets him wander the basketball court, he gets shot.......who should get most of the blame.
shooter. you know, the guy who shot the gun and killed someone.
I'd comment on your rape scenario but it's not even a plausible comparison here.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The dad can be accused of making poor parental choices just as the parents in question can be; but the crime is 100% the responsibility of the person who committed it. Get real, man. Geezuz.
Wait a minute, my entire case on this thread was a poor parenting choice, now you are agreeing with me?
I re-read all of my posts to be sure but I fail to see exactly where I blamed the parents, my point was that the parent did not exhibit good decision making abilities. That or they were just plain stupid.
I think everyone can agree that the parent made a bad choice/exhibited poor judgment. But some are taking it a lot farther than that.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
shooter. you know, the guy who shot the gun and killed someone.
I'd comment on your rape scenario but it's not even a plausible comparison here.
The entire point being made is why a parent would choose to place a three year old in a dangerous situation, not assigning blame for the act, there is not even any disagreement that the parent should have to worry. But that's not reality. Reality is Chicago is a fucking shithole run by GANGS and the politicians sit on their hands thinking up shit that won't solve the problem.
Nobody here is saying the child deserved to be shot, anyone that would is an animal. My entire point is that the child should never have been put into that situation. Maybe from your part of the world it is easier to make judgement without knowing the statistics of Chicago neighborhoods, but trust me when I say this, there is no way I'd venture there. Ever heard the saying don't go asking for trouble? That is trouble.
why do people live in chicago or any violent city? explain this way of living to me please... someone, anyone, please.
it makes zero sense to me to live in a city let alone a city very well known for violence, drive by shooting, large amounts of gang activity, the list goes on... i am asking to understand the need to live in a shithole
why do people live in chicago or any violent city? explain this way of living to me please... someone, anyone, please.
that can be a long and very complicated answer. for some they can't afford more. actually i would say for all. no one wants to live in a violent city but they can't seem to get out of it.
I'm in Illinois because of work and I grew up here. The state used to be good, but corrupt politicians have ruined it. I will be buying a parcel of land, in a better state, that will be my getaway location until I retire or unless the GF changes her mind about moving.
People are stuck mostly because of government policies, welfare actually keeps people down. The money could be better used to provide free education and job training, instead cards are sold for cash.
I'm not including temporary food assistance in this statement.
why do people live in chicago or any violent city? explain this way of living to me please... someone, anyone, please.
that can be a long and very complicated answer. for some they can't afford more. actually i would say for all. no one wants to live in a violent city but they can't seem to get out of it.
this is the only answer i knew. there has to be a way for them to leave
folks here in iowa used to love taking the amtrak train into chicago & spending the weekend there shopping & seeing the museums, ball games & whatnot. this is declining because people are scared of chicago now. have any of you ever been to the chicago amtrak train depot? fucking nightmare... trash & garbage in the streets & im not even talking about the people. i never saw so much litter stuck to razor wired fencing around the rooftops of buildings... if there is a fence in chicago it is full of trash that flew/blew there
shooter. you know, the guy who shot the gun and killed someone.
I'd comment on your rape scenario but it's not even a plausible comparison here.
The entire point being made is why a parent would choose to place a three year old in a dangerous situation, not assigning blame for the act, there is not even any disagreement that the parent should have to worry. But that's not reality. Reality is Chicago is a fucking shithole run by GANGS and the politicians sit on their hands thinking up shit that won't solve the problem.
Nobody here is saying the child deserved to be shot, anyone that would is an animal. My entire point is that the child should never have been put into that situation. Maybe from your part of the world it is easier to make judgement without knowing the statistics of Chicago neighborhoods, but trust me when I say this, there is no way I'd venture there. Ever heard the saying don't go asking for trouble? That is trouble.
I agree with you. But I don't BLAME the parent for the child being shot. There's a difference between those two assertions.
my part of the world is the murder capital of Canada. Winnipeg, Manitoba. Car theft capital. so yeah, I'm not judging anything about Chicago. I know about it. I wouldn't take my child into a playground after dark in the core area of Winnipeg, either. But I can't say I judge people who do. They have to live their lives, no matter where they live.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
just a quick question. after hearing unsung talk about Chicago, i have to ask.
I am going there in April to watch a hockey game. how scared should I be?
There were hundreds of members of this very club who walked from Wrigley Field back to the Loop between 2am and 4am on a Saturday in July. I have not heard of any one of us having an incident on that walk.
Be smart. Stay out of the the high crime areas. Enjoy the game. You'll be fine.
just a quick question. after hearing unsung talk about Chicago, i have to ask.
I am going there in April to watch a hockey game. how scared should I be?
im not unsung but i'll add my 13 cents just for the heck of it.
you are good if you stay away of shitbags & dark alleys & desperate criminals. like go to the hockey game, dinner, hotel. you would not be wize to walk into the south side of chicago at any hour of any day & for sure not after dark.
i've been to mexico twice; tijuana & mexicali. mexicali being a shithole & scary. avoid trouble is the key to avoiding trouble...
There were hundreds of members of this very club who walked from Wrigley Field back to the Loop between 2am and 4am on a Saturday in July. I have not heard of any one of us having an incident on that walk.
Be smart. Stay out of the the high crime areas. Enjoy the game. You'll be fine.
That area is one of the safer areas, and is very highly patrolled because that is where the money is spent.
If the game is at the UC I wouldn't do much outside of that stadium. The best bet is to get your hotel somewhere off Michigan Ave (I stayed at the same place as some of the band in 09) and take a cab to the game.
The dad can be accused of making poor parental choices just as the parents in question can be; but the crime is 100% the responsibility of the person who committed it. Get real, man. Geezuz.
Wait a minute, my entire case on this thread was a poor parenting choice, now you are agreeing with me?
I re-read all of my posts to be sure but I fail to see exactly where I blamed the parents, my point was that the parent did not exhibit good decision making abilities. That or they were just plain stupid.
I think everyone can agree that the parent made a bad choice/exhibited poor judgment. But some are taking it a lot farther than that.
And I wasn't responding to a comment you made, Unsung. The spirit of the thread had seemed to shift towards villianizing the parents who- no doubtedly- must be in agony right now. At the same time... there seemed to be a minimalization of the shooter's level of responsibility.
just a quick question. after hearing unsung talk about Chicago, i have to ask.
I am going there in April to watch a hockey game. how scared should I be?
At the United Center?
If I had the time, I would speak to a personal story I had getting lost around the vicinity of the United Center. Very scary and one that has me unbelievably lucky.
You hear of the stories and wonder if they are sensationalized or not- but I can tell from my experience that this particular area is not a pleasant one. It is far from it. I should have known when we walked by the school with what seemed to be 20 foot high chain link fences and the park signs indicating drug offences in the park areas constituted double the normal consequences.
When I was about 19 we actually thought it would be funny to drive through Cabrini-Green. Not the best decision I've made, but it was educating beyond belief.
what was the name of the projects housing development in chicago that the residence of basically tore down & burnt the fucker. something like a few thousand people were moved across neighboring states that would take them in. i was just told this story last winter by the man who resoled my redwings... a wonderful cobbler & great guy. heck, this could of even happened 10-20 yrs ago
When I was about 19 we actually thought it would be funny to drive through Cabrini-Green. Not the best decision I've made, but it was educating beyond belief.
i just read about this place. pretty unreal stuff. this may be the housing place i was told about.
from the wiki page i read...
the trash chutes were clogged up with rotting garbage as it climbed on up to the 15th floor. this of course welcomes in the cockroaches & rats. another thing i found incredible is that when a apartment caught fire & was charred to a crisp instead of rebuilding/redoing the destroyed apartment they just boarded that apartment up leaving it as is.
wow! that had to stink
like you, unsung, i went around bad spots in cities just to see what i could see. i remember begging a g/f years ago to take me into the shithole area of dallas. she refused all my begging. there is something that draws a guy in to see what is there in these dumps. of course it is not to bright an idea sometimes & probably smart to be in a car & even then it may be the worst choice one ever made. this is why stop signs don't mean anything
When I was about 19 we actually thought it would be funny to drive through Cabrini-Green. Not the best decision I've made, but it was educating beyond belief.
by fife .....really that was your 1st thought? my first thought was wow a child got killed by a person with a gun. also before you heard that obama was a community org. did you even know what it was. do you even know today what they do?
being a mother ....Yes my first thought was about the poor child and my second thought was why was this child out this late at night. Then I just figured it was gang related, later found out to be true. So now I feel bad that the childs mother (I guess a teenager from a shit home...just guessing) was hanging out with gangs....not a good outing anytime especially with a child...
I know that there are many people involved (or had been involved )with community organizers (in Chicago) that made big bucks, and others in jail due to corruption.
there has been much money that could go towards helping these parents...but the corruption has sucked it all away from these people
so your your second thought was why was the child out and not why can't we fix this gun issue? here is a question, at what thought were you thinking about the person shooting and the guns? was it the 3rd, 4th, 5th thought?
The parents need fixing....but how can that happen when people are scamming the government for fix the neighborhood grants or help the poor grants with no intentions of helping....only intentions on of stealing the money......then when they do get busted they get a slap on the hand? Who are the idiots giving out these grants? ....are they getting kick backs also?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Saw on the news arrests were made. Not the shooters however. One was a man shot earlier in the day and suspected the gang member who did it was in the gang who "owned" the basketball court the child was shot on. He supplied the guns, the other arrested was the "lookout". Perhaps I was to harsh in saying the parents were 100% to blame. The shooter committed the crime, and he's to blame for that. However, the situation blame lies 100% on the parent. If you live in a neighborhood that has a basketball court that is common knowledge "owned" by a gang..........please don't bring your 3 year old out there at 10:15 at night and expect good things to happen.
Also Hugh, you brought up the rape story not me. Of course I would not blame the victim of a rape. But if someone put a person in that situation where a rape could easily happen, they as well as the criminal need accountability and blame. One of the biggest problems in our society, no one wants to take accountability for their actions.
People, I only meant to say that the gun owner and shooter are a small part of this story and do deserve blame along with the parents of that poor 3 year old shot in the ear and out the mouth.
Also Hugh, you brought up the rape story not me. Of course I would not blame the victim of a rape. But if someone put a person in that situation where a rape could easily happen, they as well as the criminal need accountability and blame. One of the biggest problems in our society, no one wants to take accountability for their actions.
Peace
yes, I did, but you made it so out to lunch that it no longer was comparable.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
all have an extensive criminal past and should not have been walking the streets the night of the shooting. it is so sickening how fucking broken the system is in this country.
i work in a very large hotel in downtown chicago and our security department is constantly circulating wanted offenders flyers that show the individual’s face (most of the time their mug shot or snapshot from a security camera), description of what they are wanted for (typically assault and petty thefts), and their criminal background listing all prior arrests to all of the managers/associates in the hotel to keep an eye out as they come and go from work.
i shit you not, some of these offenders have been arrested between 40-60 times. WHY THE HELL ARE THEY ALLOWED TO WALK THE STREETS. because they were all considered "petty crimes?" well guess what... after the 5th time you get arrested for punching someone in the face to steal their iphone, maybe the charges should be upgraded? what a crazy idea!
Comments
Your quote left out my Rapist part of the answer.....[/quote]
thats because you edited the post.
now concerning your othe rpost. I agree and most people here have agreed that the kid should have not been out that late. the difference is that you have put all the blame on the parent and none on the shooter.
This story is twisting out of control.
It's easy to say how people living in gang-infested neighbourhoods should live their lives from the comfort of suburbia. If Chicago and the US are comfortable saying people should just stay in at night instead of tackling the real issue, then there is a serious problem with regards to perpsective. The answer to the problem should not be strategies to cope with the reality that nobody can do anything about... it should be how do you curb the violence?
If the situation is as bleak as some Chicagoites have painted... then it is likely time to take measures and reclaim the 'south side' from the criminals that dominate it- forcing people inside their homes after dark.
well, then, case closed, eh, Columbo?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Wait a minute, my entire case on this thread was a poor parenting choice, now you are agreeing with me?
I re-read all of my posts to be sure but I fail to see exactly where I blamed the parents, my point was that the parent did not exhibit good decision making abilities. That or they were just plain stupid.
shooter. you know, the guy who shot the gun and killed someone.
I'd comment on your rape scenario but it's not even a plausible comparison here.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think everyone can agree that the parent made a bad choice/exhibited poor judgment. But some are taking it a lot farther than that.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The entire point being made is why a parent would choose to place a three year old in a dangerous situation, not assigning blame for the act, there is not even any disagreement that the parent should have to worry. But that's not reality. Reality is Chicago is a fucking shithole run by GANGS and the politicians sit on their hands thinking up shit that won't solve the problem.
Nobody here is saying the child deserved to be shot, anyone that would is an animal. My entire point is that the child should never have been put into that situation. Maybe from your part of the world it is easier to make judgement without knowing the statistics of Chicago neighborhoods, but trust me when I say this, there is no way I'd venture there. Ever heard the saying don't go asking for trouble? That is trouble.
it makes zero sense to me to live in a city let alone a city very well known for violence, drive by shooting, large amounts of gang activity, the list goes on... i am asking to understand the need to live in a shithole
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
that can be a long and very complicated answer. for some they can't afford more. actually i would say for all. no one wants to live in a violent city but they can't seem to get out of it.
People are stuck mostly because of government policies, welfare actually keeps people down. The money could be better used to provide free education and job training, instead cards are sold for cash.
I'm not including temporary food assistance in this statement.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I am going there in April to watch a hockey game. how scared should I be?
I agree with you. But I don't BLAME the parent for the child being shot. There's a difference between those two assertions.
my part of the world is the murder capital of Canada. Winnipeg, Manitoba. Car theft capital. so yeah, I'm not judging anything about Chicago. I know about it. I wouldn't take my child into a playground after dark in the core area of Winnipeg, either. But I can't say I judge people who do. They have to live their lives, no matter where they live.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
At the United Center?
There were hundreds of members of this very club who walked from Wrigley Field back to the Loop between 2am and 4am on a Saturday in July. I have not heard of any one of us having an incident on that walk.
Be smart. Stay out of the the high crime areas. Enjoy the game. You'll be fine.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
im not unsung but i'll add my 13 cents just for the heck of it.
you are good if you stay away of shitbags & dark alleys & desperate criminals. like go to the hockey game, dinner, hotel. you would not be wize to walk into the south side of chicago at any hour of any day & for sure not after dark.
i've been to mexico twice; tijuana & mexicali. mexicali being a shithole & scary. avoid trouble is the key to avoiding trouble...
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
That area is one of the safer areas, and is very highly patrolled because that is where the money is spent.
If the game is at the UC I wouldn't do much outside of that stadium. The best bet is to get your hotel somewhere off Michigan Ave (I stayed at the same place as some of the band in 09) and take a cab to the game.
yes its a blackhawks game. thanks everyone for the advice, sorry for the derailing of the tread. lets go back to yelling
And I wasn't responding to a comment you made, Unsung. The spirit of the thread had seemed to shift towards villianizing the parents who- no doubtedly- must be in agony right now. At the same time... there seemed to be a minimalization of the shooter's level of responsibility.
If I had the time, I would speak to a personal story I had getting lost around the vicinity of the United Center. Very scary and one that has me unbelievably lucky.
You hear of the stories and wonder if they are sensationalized or not- but I can tell from my experience that this particular area is not a pleasant one. It is far from it. I should have known when we walked by the school with what seemed to be 20 foot high chain link fences and the park signs indicating drug offences in the park areas constituted double the normal consequences.
Won't make that mistake again.
what was the name of the projects housing development in chicago that the residence of basically tore down & burnt the fucker. something like a few thousand people were moved across neighboring states that would take them in. i was just told this story last winter by the man who resoled my redwings... a wonderful cobbler & great guy. heck, this could of even happened 10-20 yrs ago
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
from the wiki page i read...
the trash chutes were clogged up with rotting garbage as it climbed on up to the 15th floor. this of course welcomes in the cockroaches & rats. another thing i found incredible is that when a apartment caught fire & was charred to a crisp instead of rebuilding/redoing the destroyed apartment they just boarded that apartment up leaving it as is.
wow! that had to stink
like you, unsung, i went around bad spots in cities just to see what i could see. i remember begging a g/f years ago to take me into the shithole area of dallas. she refused all my begging. there is something that draws a guy in to see what is there in these dumps. of course it is not to bright an idea sometimes & probably smart to be in a car & even then it may be the worst choice one ever made. this is why stop signs don't mean anything
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
The parents need fixing....but how can that happen when people are scamming the government for fix the neighborhood grants or help the poor grants with no intentions of helping....only intentions on of stealing the money......then when they do get busted they get a slap on the hand? Who are the idiots giving out these grants? ....are they getting kick backs also?
Also Hugh, you brought up the rape story not me. Of course I would not blame the victim of a rape. But if someone put a person in that situation where a rape could easily happen, they as well as the criminal need accountability and blame. One of the biggest problems in our society, no one wants to take accountability for their actions.
People, I only meant to say that the gun owner and shooter are a small part of this story and do deserve blame along with the parents of that poor 3 year old shot in the ear and out the mouth.
Peace
yes, I did, but you made it so out to lunch that it no longer was comparable.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/23/justice/c ... hpt=hp_bn1
all have an extensive criminal past and should not have been walking the streets the night of the shooting. it is so sickening how fucking broken the system is in this country.
i work in a very large hotel in downtown chicago and our security department is constantly circulating wanted offenders flyers that show the individual’s face (most of the time their mug shot or snapshot from a security camera), description of what they are wanted for (typically assault and petty thefts), and their criminal background listing all prior arrests to all of the managers/associates in the hotel to keep an eye out as they come and go from work.
i shit you not, some of these offenders have been arrested between 40-60 times. WHY THE HELL ARE THEY ALLOWED TO WALK THE STREETS. because they were all considered "petty crimes?" well guess what... after the 5th time you get arrested for punching someone in the face to steal their iphone, maybe the charges should be upgraded? what a crazy idea!
these thugs are ticking time bombs.