His rehab was neither successful nor unsuccessful because he got cancer and died instead of having the chance to show us if it would have worked. It is not bashing, however, to say that his track record gives us no reason to think it would have been successful otherwise. It's common sense.
Yet, by all known accounts, his rehab was successful. Applying statistics to an individual case starts us on a very slippery slope, I feel, though I do get the point you're trying to make.
Again, being from Vancouver you may not realize the toxic media environment of those days that we were forced to endure locally, with the media camped out on his front lawn, reporters skulking around their property. I remain convinced (as you seem equally unconvinced) that had Ford relapsed, we would have known, but it seems he stayed clean for the last year of his life, even prior to the cancer diagnosis. Don't forget, it was through people that purported to be his friends that much of this was discovered, thanks to the hidden camera videos. I just can't see it NOT coming out had he relapsed.
Vancouver and BC politics are absolutely vicious, and has had its fair share of scandal. We are seasoned warriors when it comes to a toxic political environment, which leads to what the media reports. We have simply not have a Rob Ford. Who has??? I honestly do not feel that any of what TO experienced was the fault of anyone other than Ford though. Yes, he caused a media storm, but that was his doing. Blaming it on the media just excuses his own bad behaviour. Again, I didn't say he relapsed. He didn't have a chance to because he got cancer and died. If you consider getting cancer and dying to be a good way to avoid addiction relapse, well, okay then. But maybe you didn't read my post about his addiction not even being the real problem? There was a lot more wrong with that guy than a crack addiction.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
His rehab was neither successful nor unsuccessful because he got cancer and died instead of having the chance to show us if it would have worked. It is not bashing, however, to say that his track record gives us no reason to think it would have been successful otherwise. It's common sense.
Yet, by all known accounts, his rehab was successful. Applying statistics to an individual case starts us on a very slippery slope, I feel, though I do get the point you're trying to make.
Again, being from Vancouver you may not realize the toxic media environment of those days that we were forced to endure locally, with the media camped out on his front lawn, reporters skulking around their property. I remain convinced (as you seem equally unconvinced) that had Ford relapsed, we would have known, but it seems he stayed clean for the last year of his life, even prior to the cancer diagnosis. Don't forget, it was through people that purported to be his friends that much of this was discovered, thanks to the hidden camera videos. I just can't see it NOT coming out had he relapsed.
Vancouver and BC politics are absolutely vicious, and has had its fair share of scandal. We are seasoned warriors when it comes to a toxic political environment, which leads to what the media reports. We have simply not have a Rob Ford. Who has??? I honestly do not feel that any of what TO experienced was the fault of anyone other than Ford though. Yes, he caused a media storm, but that was his doing. Blaming it on the media just excuses his own bad behaviour. Again, I didn't say he relapsed. He didn't have a chance to because he got cancer and died. If you consider getting cancer and dying to be a good way to avoid addiction relapse, well, okay then. But maybe you didn't read my post about his addiction not even being the real problem? There was a lot more wrong with that guy than a crack addiction.
In the very first days of his mayoralty (in fact during the campaign), certain media outlets (most notably the Toronto Star) made it clear there would be no positive press for Ford, regardless of what he did or didn't do. While he was responsible for his own behaviour, the stage was certainly set for him by some of the media. When he spoke up in defence of his marriage, that was sidelined (in fact, ignored) because of the language he used.
At the height of the "crisis," I had to laugh when the throngs of media tried to blame Ford for them stumbling all over themselves as he moved about city hall.
Now, I clearly have a different take on addiction recovery than you. In my mind, knowing a little something of addiction, 1 day not feeding the addiction is an accomplishment, and when one dies has little or no bearing on their success or failure in combating their issues. Personally I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong, despite what statistics might say (and believe me, this point of view has bitten me in the ass numerous times, but I will do my best to hold on to this belief moving forward).
He did also have traits that others use to malign him, however we need to acknowledge that this is largely a case of one person's trash being another's gold, I think, and I'd suggest again the names Sanders and Trump (or even our new PM Trudeau).
Edited for sloppy punctuation, lol.
Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I don't know anything about Lastman except what you typed here.
When people are asserting things such as Ford's rehab being unsuccessful with zero proof to back up their claim, I call that bashing, sorry. If there were any facts being cited, I could then agree with it being truth-telling.
As a resident, Lastman was as embarassing as Ford, except we didn't know at the time why he was doing what he was doing or saying what he was saying. I guess threatening to kill a reporter (who had exposed Lastman's wife's kleptomania) wasn't salacious enough for national, much less international press coverage. Locally, Lastman did receive some unfair press, such as when he was caught shaking hands with a member of the Hell's Angels (who were having a convention/gathering in town, Lastman was just doing a politician's job of shaking the hand of someone who approached him), and it was portrayed as if Lastman should have known who's hand he was shaking. I might suggest googling him, hopefully it's at least worth a chuckle, and might help explain how a man like Ford got elected to the same office.
I do live in the town where in the 90s a local band was banned from playing a city function because of their name, The Barenaked Ladies.
well if you were only talking to one person, then say so.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
^^I get what you're saying, however while I'm not saying we should assume the best in him, neither should we assume the worst.
Yes, he was an addict, an illness that yields low recovery rates, and is extremely difficult to overcome (I can attest to that, given my current attempt(s) to quit cigarettes). However, an open hand is far more helpful to the addict than a closed fist (though I do acknowledge sometimes drastic measures are necessary. Thankfully cigarettes are as far as my addictions go, so I can't truly speak to the more extreme cases of drug addiction).
Personally I found the fried chicken incident pathetic, and one of the first instances of the very public humiliation of Rob Ford. If you watch the video, the woman filming it is sitting in her car with her 3 year-old child (after visiting the fried chicken joint herself, speaks volumes about her own parenting), while cackling at the mayor. Again, her behaviour speaks volumes about her parenting, what nice behaviour to expose their young child to (by the way, I feel that if one is going to do something like she did, she has opened herself up to criticism).
Yes, Ford had impulse issues, but absent of proof, we both have to accept that both our points of view (whether or not rehab was successful in Ford's case) are equally valid.
PJ soul is just going with the stats, as far as I'm concerned. not a bias against RF.
I realize that the success rate in treating addiction is relatively low, but it would be nice to also acknowledge the legitimate struggles ALL addicts go through in trying to control their compulsions. By no means do I mean for anyone to take anything personally, sorry if I came across that way.
At this point in the discussion, I'm genuinely curious about the Ford-bashers' take on another former mayor, Mel Lastman. He of the racist comments, threats to kill a reporter (on council floor no less) and philandering. Was his "erratic" behaviour less bad, because he didn't own up to his actions until well after he was out of office, and claimed it was because of medications he was on? Personally I see them both as equally bad, but I'm wondering what others think of Lastman in relation to Ford.
No one on here will know about Lastman because he didn't govern during the internet age...It is amazing what people could get away with prior to the phenomena of twitter/youtube shaming. Your analysis of Lastman's behaviour though is pretty correct but remember he was also relatively beloved by the people of North York and governed it pretty successfully. I know that my parents were pretty big supporters of his irrespective of his "buffoonery".
His rehab was neither successful nor unsuccessful because he got cancer and died instead of having the chance to show us if it would have worked. It is not bashing, however, to say that his track record gives us no reason to think it would have been successful otherwise. It's common sense.
Yet, by all known accounts, his rehab was successful. Applying statistics to an individual case starts us on a very slippery slope, I feel, though I do get the point you're trying to make.
Again, being from Vancouver you may not realize the toxic media environment of those days that we were forced to endure locally, with the media camped out on his front lawn, reporters skulking around their property. I remain convinced (as you seem equally unconvinced) that had Ford relapsed, we would have known, but it seems he stayed clean for the last year of his life, even prior to the cancer diagnosis. Don't forget, it was through people that purported to be his friends that much of this was discovered, thanks to the hidden camera videos. I just can't see it NOT coming out had he relapsed.
Vancouver and BC politics are absolutely vicious, and has had its fair share of scandal. We are seasoned warriors when it comes to a toxic political environment, which leads to what the media reports. We have simply not have a Rob Ford. Who has??? I honestly do not feel that any of what TO experienced was the fault of anyone other than Ford though. Yes, he caused a media storm, but that was his doing. Blaming it on the media just excuses his own bad behaviour. Again, I didn't say he relapsed. He didn't have a chance to because he got cancer and died. If you consider getting cancer and dying to be a good way to avoid addiction relapse, well, okay then. But maybe you didn't read my post about his addiction not even being the real problem? There was a lot more wrong with that guy than a crack addiction.
In the very first days of his mayoralty (in fact during the campaign), certain media outlets (most notably the Toronto Star) made it clear there would be no positive press for Ford, regardless of what he did or didn't do. While he was responsible for his own behaviour, the stage was certainly set for him by some of the media. When he spoke up in defence of his marriage, that was sidelined (in fact, ignored) because of the language he used.
At the height of the "crisis," I had to laugh when the throngs of media tried to blame Ford for them stumbling all over themselves as he moved about city hall.
Now, I clearly have a different take on addiction recovery than you. In my mind, knowing a little something of addiction, 1 day not feeding the addiction is an accomplishment, and when one dies has little or no bearing on their success or failure in combating their issues. Personally I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong, despite what statistics might say (and believe me, this point of view has bitten me in the ass numerous times, but I will do my best to hold on to this belief moving forward).
He did also have traits that others use to malign him, however we need to acknowledge that this is largely a case of one person's trash being another's gold, I think, and I'd suggest again the names Sanders and Trump (or even our new PM Trudeau).
Edited for sloppy punctuation, lol.
I totally disagree about your comments about your take on addiction vs mine. I have actually said nothing at all about my own take on addiction recovery, so you have no idea what it is. All I've said is that I have no reason to think that Ford would have stayed in recovery if he hadn't gotten cancer and died. And FYI, I also know a little something about addiction too. This is not a conversation about addiction or our level of understanding about it. It's about Rob Ford, who was a lot more (and a lot worse) than just his addiction to crack.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
His rehab was neither successful nor unsuccessful because he got cancer and died instead of having the chance to show us if it would have worked. It is not bashing, however, to say that his track record gives us no reason to think it would have been successful otherwise. It's common sense.
Yet, by all known accounts, his rehab was successful. Applying statistics to an individual case starts us on a very slippery slope, I feel, though I do get the point you're trying to make.
Again, being from Vancouver you may not realize the toxic media environment of those days that we were forced to endure locally, with the media camped out on his front lawn, reporters skulking around their property. I remain convinced (as you seem equally unconvinced) that had Ford relapsed, we would have known, but it seems he stayed clean for the last year of his life, even prior to the cancer diagnosis. Don't forget, it was through people that purported to be his friends that much of this was discovered, thanks to the hidden camera videos. I just can't see it NOT coming out had he relapsed.
Vancouver and BC politics are absolutely vicious, and has had its fair share of scandal. We are seasoned warriors when it comes to a toxic political environment, which leads to what the media reports. We have simply not have a Rob Ford. Who has??? I honestly do not feel that any of what TO experienced was the fault of anyone other than Ford though. Yes, he caused a media storm, but that was his doing. Blaming it on the media just excuses his own bad behaviour. Again, I didn't say he relapsed. He didn't have a chance to because he got cancer and died. If you consider getting cancer and dying to be a good way to avoid addiction relapse, well, okay then. But maybe you didn't read my post about his addiction not even being the real problem? There was a lot more wrong with that guy than a crack addiction.
In the very first days of his mayoralty (in fact during the campaign), certain media outlets (most notably the Toronto Star) made it clear there would be no positive press for Ford, regardless of what he did or didn't do. While he was responsible for his own behaviour, the stage was certainly set for him by some of the media. When he spoke up in defence of his marriage, that was sidelined (in fact, ignored) because of the language he used.
At the height of the "crisis," I had to laugh when the throngs of media tried to blame Ford for them stumbling all over themselves as he moved about city hall.
Now, I clearly have a different take on addiction recovery than you. In my mind, knowing a little something of addiction, 1 day not feeding the addiction is an accomplishment, and when one dies has little or no bearing on their success or failure in combating their issues. Personally I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong, despite what statistics might say (and believe me, this point of view has bitten me in the ass numerous times, but I will do my best to hold on to this belief moving forward).
He did also have traits that others use to malign him, however we need to acknowledge that this is largely a case of one person's trash being another's gold, I think, and I'd suggest again the names Sanders and Trump (or even our new PM Trudeau).
Edited for sloppy punctuation, lol.
I totally disagree about your comments about your take on addiction vs mine. I have actually said nothing at all about my own take on addiction recovery, so you have no idea what it is. All I've said is that I have no reason to think that Ford would have stayed in recovery if he hadn't gotten cancer and died. And FYI, I also know a little something about addiction too. This is not a conversation about addiction or our level of understanding about it. It's about Rob Ford, who was a lot more (and a lot worse) than just his addiction to crack.
Fair enough, but Rob Ford was also much more than the criticisms he faced. Two sides to every coin and all.
While we have differing takes on Ford's recovery from his addiction, I truly feel that you're being unfair in your assessment (as I may be being overly optimistic in mine). Again, absent of any proof, both viewpoints are correct, I suppose.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
TBH, I don't think it makes any difference either way. I honestly wouldn't have a better opinion of that man if he had lived and never touched drugs again. He's still a slime ball, and that has nothing to do with his addiction.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
on the contrary, I saw loads and loads of coverage of exactly why, even amidst all of his nonsense, people still had his back. no doubt he was a man of the people. I don't think anyone is disputing that. I think some even gravitated towards him even more after all this came out. he became a human being with flaws, and people identify with that.
it's funny you say his behaviour didn't affect the city at all, yet seem to give him credit for all of the growth that toronto enjoyed during his tenure. that doesn't happen overnight with one guy as mayor. people don't just up and leave their homes and move their business because of the mayor of a city. toronto is a big player on the global scale. It can be argued that growth would have happened with or without him.
I didn't give him credit for all the growth...in fact I specifically said it wasn't his doing...I just said that he managed the city well during the period of growth despite all his buffoonery. Conservatives like me believe it is the citizenry that creates growth where as politicians can either unwittingly restrict it, through the consequences of good intentions, or promote it by getting the government out of the way. Ford believed in getting government out of the way.
again ... he basically was taken off the job a year into his term ... he DID NOT manage the city well ... if anything, we should thank council and norm kelly from preventing him from doing anything that could have messed things up ...
Sorry to nitpick, but he was "taken off the job" with basically a year left in his term, roughly 3 years into his term. Also, please see my above reference to Drake's hype man Norm Kelly, he was far from an ideal replacement, abandoning the city at a time when many, many residents were experiencing a crisis.
he lost all mayoral standing at that point but he lost control of council after year 1 ... the second budget under his term was not one he wanted ...
on the contrary, I saw loads and loads of coverage of exactly why, even amidst all of his nonsense, people still had his back. no doubt he was a man of the people. I don't think anyone is disputing that. I think some even gravitated towards him even more after all this came out. he became a human being with flaws, and people identify with that.
it's funny you say his behaviour didn't affect the city at all, yet seem to give him credit for all of the growth that toronto enjoyed during his tenure. that doesn't happen overnight with one guy as mayor. people don't just up and leave their homes and move their business because of the mayor of a city. toronto is a big player on the global scale. It can be argued that growth would have happened with or without him.
I didn't give him credit for all the growth...in fact I specifically said it wasn't his doing...I just said that he managed the city well during the period of growth despite all his buffoonery. Conservatives like me believe it is the citizenry that creates growth where as politicians can either unwittingly restrict it, through the consequences of good intentions, or promote it by getting the government out of the way. Ford believed in getting government out of the way.
again ... he basically was taken off the job a year into his term ... he DID NOT manage the city well ... if anything, we should thank council and norm kelly from preventing him from doing anything that could have messed things up ...
Sorry to nitpick, but he was "taken off the job" with basically a year left in his term, roughly 3 years into his term. Also, please see my above reference to Drake's hype man Norm Kelly, he was far from an ideal replacement, abandoning the city at a time when many, many residents were experiencing a crisis.
he lost all mayoral standing at that point but he lost control of council after year 1 ... the second budget under his term was not one he wanted ...
I guess that's one barometer, however he did manage to pass policies through council, which lends a different perspective.
It really is too bad that everyone's right, and everyone's wrong, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Ummmmmm, so you're saying that you just outted Michael Ford on the AMT?
Well now I feel like an idiot for breaking my first rule of posting on the Train. First rule of posting on the Train: don't post on the Train, but if you feel like you really have to, don't out someone. LOL! Seriously though, should I delete my post?
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Ummmmmm, so you're saying that you just outted Michael Ford on the AMT?
Well now I feel like an idiot for breaking my first rule of posting on the Train. First rule of posting on the Train: don't post on the Train, but if you feel like you really have to, don't out someone. LOL! Seriously though, should I delete my post?
No point now, since it's been quoted. I don't think anyone really gives a shit if he's gay or not anyhow, though this day and age, and in Canada, it seems pretty weird for him to be in the closet, if that is indeed true, and I don't have trouble believing it. How or why would you have this information though, if he is for some reason hiding it from the public? Well, anyway, here he is talking about LGBT issues and how its dealt with in schools, briefly. Hopefully he decides he can come out soon, because he obviously can't keep it secret for long.
Good for him, it's a departure from what Rob and Doug's response would have been. I hope he flips the script on the whole Ford political legacy. If so, Ford Nation may not like it.
As to how I came about my info... second hand info obviously, and all I can or should say is that it comes from someone close to the Family. My reason for posting was a knee jerk reaction to the "Ford Nation alive and well" post. Knee jerk because I don't think MF shares all the same values as Ford Nation. I'm sort of disappointed with myself because I had all sorts of inside info during Rob Fords time as Mayor, and It all turned out to be true, but I managed to keep my mouth shut.
Good for him, it's a departure from what Rob and Doug's response would have been. I hope he flips the script on the whole Ford political legacy. If so, Ford Nation may not like it.
As to how I came about my info... second hand info obviously, and all I can or should say is that it comes from someone close to the Family. My reason for posting was a knee jerk reaction to the "Ford Nation alive and well" post. Knee jerk because I don't think MF shares all the same values as Ford Nation.
He clearly doesn't. He's been known to criticize some of his family's views.... which is a good thing. "Ford Nation" is an embarrassing Canadian joke. Anyone who would want to dedicate himself to riding that train would automatically have to be an asshole.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Inside info's different from what I honestly feared: that his speech impediment (or whatever the pc term is) was being childishly made fun of (thankfully not).
As I told someone in discussing this, (if true) it's somewhat a point of pride that this is how I found out about this (international Internet message board), since it's been a non-issue locally. Because most in this city would agree (I hope), who cares?
And PJSoul, I hope I'm not an asshole, even though I happily ride the Ford train, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Inside info's different from what I honestly feared: that his speech impediment (or whatever the pc term is) was being childishly made fun of (thankfully not).
As I told someone in discussing this, (if true) it's somewhat a point of pride that this is how I found out about this (international Internet message board), since it's been a non-issue locally. Because most in this city would agree (I hope), who cares?
And PJSoul, I hope I'm not an asshole, even though I happily ride the Ford train, lol.
I meant riding the political train, i.e. any politician who rides that train. I have no idea if you're an asshole, but I don't have anything good to say about you being a happy member of Ford Nation.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Inside info's different from what I honestly feared: that his speech impediment (or whatever the pc term is) was being childishly made fun of (thankfully not).
As I told someone in discussing this, (if true) it's somewhat a point of pride that this is how I found out about this (international Internet message board), since it's been a non-issue locally. Because most in this city would agree (I hope), who cares?
And PJSoul, I hope I'm not an asshole, even though I happily ride the Ford train, lol.
I meant riding the political train, i.e. any politician who rides that train. I have no idea if you're an asshole, but I don't have anything good to say about you being a happy member of Ford Nation.
You're right. I don't know how anyone at all whatsoever could've not read it otherwise. Especially since the late Ford was all about the train.
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Inside info's different from what I honestly feared: that his speech impediment (or whatever the pc term is) was being childishly made fun of (thankfully not).
As I told someone in discussing this, (if true) it's somewhat a point of pride that this is how I found out about this (international Internet message board), since it's been a non-issue locally. Because most in this city would agree (I hope), who cares?
And PJSoul, I hope I'm not an asshole, even though I happily ride the Ford train, lol.
I meant riding the political train, i.e. any politician who rides that train. I have no idea if you're an asshole, but I don't have anything good to say about you being a happy member of Ford Nation.
Lol, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Sorry, was being a smartass as much as anything with that, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Why in death can people not leave rob ford alone. And who fucking cares about Michael Fords sexuality ... that's his business.
Why should we not talk about Rob Ford? Why do you feel this need to try and keep people from talking about him? He was a public figure and politician. We have a right to talk about him and his supporters until we're blue in the face if we want. Yeah, we already established that nobody cares if he's gay. But it came up, and since some Ford Nation douchebags would supposedly have a problem with that, it does kind of matter, just like it would matter if, say, Trump came out of the closet.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^why the need to discuss and trash talk a human being that had since passed ... fords behaviour was addiction based. I'll approach rob ford with some empathy ... unfortunately he didn't live long enough after getting through rehab to see if he was a changed person.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Inside info's different from what I honestly feared: that his speech impediment (or whatever the pc term is) was being childishly made fun of (thankfully not).
As I told someone in discussing this, (if true) it's somewhat a point of pride that this is how I found out about this (international Internet message board), since it's been a non-issue locally. Because most in this city would agree (I hope), who cares?
And PJSoul, I hope I'm not an asshole, even though I happily ride the Ford train, lol.
Why in death can people not leave rob ford alone. And who fucking cares about Michael Fords sexuality ... that's his business.
I should be clear that the individual who provided the info was sharing an opinion. Michael Ford did not out himself to this person. I don't know if he is gay for sure, and I don't care if he is. Really the point I was making is that "Ford Nation" probably would care if he was gay, and that it was "Ford Nation" that elected him. Furthermore I imagine the Ford Family Closet wouldn't be the easiest to come out of. I wish him the best gay or not, and as I said I hope he flips the script and re-writes the Ford family political book.
^^^why the need to discuss and trash talk a human being that had since passed ... fords behaviour was addiction based. I'll approach rob ford with some empathy ... unfortunately he didn't live long enough after getting through rehab to see if he was a changed person.
He was a creep long before he was an addict. And why discuss politicians and their behaviour? Because we need to make sure we remember people like him so that we don't repeat mistakes, plus his family is still in politics. That's fine if you feel empathy for Ford, but I'll ask that you don't tell me that I shouldn't talk about it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Poor Michael. It must suck to be gay and a member of Toronto's most homophobic family.
Qu'est-ce que le wha, lol?
Whoops... inside info I shouldn't have shared. My bad. I just feel bad for the kid.
Inside info's different from what I honestly feared: that his speech impediment (or whatever the pc term is) was being childishly made fun of (thankfully not).
As I told someone in discussing this, (if true) it's somewhat a point of pride that this is how I found out about this (international Internet message board), since it's been a non-issue locally. Because most in this city would agree (I hope), who cares?
And PJSoul, I hope I'm not an asshole, even though I happily ride the Ford train, lol.
Why in death can people not leave rob ford alone. And who fucking cares about Michael Fords sexuality ... that's his business.
I should be clear that the individual who provided the info was sharing an opinion. Michael Ford did not out himself to this person. I don't know if he is gay for sure, and I don't care if he is. Really the point I was making is that "Ford Nation" probably would care if he was gay, and that it was "Ford Nation" that elected him. Furthermore I imagine the Ford Family Closet wouldn't be the easiest to come out of. I wish him the best gay or not, and as I said I hope he flips the script and re-writes the Ford family political book.
Thankfully your last comment puts us back to (in my opinion) "Who knows? Who cares?" Regarding Michael's sexuality, and I do agree with what you're saying to an extent. Rob's non-attendance at most Pride events is a matter of record, and casts a certain light (right or wrong) on these types of issues.
That said, my feeling is that enough time has passed that (both sides) a honest and open discussion should be possible regarding Rob and his life. I know up-thread I took serious exception with some of the things said about him, but that was literally in the first days after he'd died. It's been months now, and the only people who (I think) might have the right to be offended would be his family, and I'm guessing none of them are active members here, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
^^^why the need to discuss and trash talk a human being that had since passed ... fords behaviour was addiction based. I'll approach rob ford with some empathy ... unfortunately he didn't live long enough after getting through rehab to see if he was a changed person.
He was a creep long before he was an addict. And why discuss politicians and their behaviour? Because we need to make sure we remember people like him so that we don't repeat mistakes, plus his family is still in politics. That's fine if you feel empathy for Ford, but I'll ask that you don't tell me that I shouldn't talk about it.
I didn't realize Rob Ford let you in his inner circle, especially someone like you who can't stand the guy. otherwise how do you know when his addiction issues surfaced, heck I doubt rob ford could have pinned down when he became addicted...could have been in high school...
Maybe their is an article or interview where he discusses when it became problematic ...
Talk away if you want...and in your case trash talk.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
Again, I didn't say he relapsed. He didn't have a chance to because he got cancer and died. If you consider getting cancer and dying to be a good way to avoid addiction relapse, well, okay then. But maybe you didn't read my post about his addiction not even being the real problem? There was a lot more wrong with that guy than a crack addiction.
At the height of the "crisis," I had to laugh when the throngs of media tried to blame Ford for them stumbling all over themselves as he moved about city hall.
Now, I clearly have a different take on addiction recovery than you. In my mind, knowing a little something of addiction, 1 day not feeding the addiction is an accomplishment, and when one dies has little or no bearing on their success or failure in combating their issues. Personally I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong, despite what statistics might say (and believe me, this point of view has bitten me in the ass numerous times, but I will do my best to hold on to this belief moving forward).
He did also have traits that others use to malign him, however we need to acknowledge that this is largely a case of one person's trash being another's gold, I think, and I'd suggest again the names Sanders and Trump (or even our new PM Trudeau).
Edited for sloppy punctuation, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
-EV 8/14/93
While we have differing takes on Ford's recovery from his addiction, I truly feel that you're being unfair in your assessment (as I may be being overly optimistic in mine). Again, absent of any proof, both viewpoints are correct, I suppose.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
It really is too bad that everyone's right, and everyone's wrong, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
http://news.nationalpost.com/toronto/michael-ford-wins-toronto-byelection-to-take-over-his-late-uncle-rob-fords-council-seat
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
As to how I came about my info... second hand info obviously, and all I can or should say is that it comes from someone close to the Family. My reason for posting was a knee jerk reaction to the "Ford Nation alive and well" post. Knee jerk because I don't think MF shares all the same values as Ford Nation. I'm sort of disappointed with myself because I had all sorts of inside info during Rob Fords time as Mayor, and It all turned out to be true, but I managed to keep my mouth shut.
As I told someone in discussing this, (if true) it's somewhat a point of pride that this is how I found out about this (international Internet message board), since it's been a non-issue locally. Because most in this city would agree (I hope), who cares?
And PJSoul, I hope I'm not an asshole, even though I happily ride the Ford train, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Especially since the late Ford was all about the train.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yeah, we already established that nobody cares if he's gay. But it came up, and since some Ford Nation douchebags would supposedly have a problem with that, it does kind of matter, just like it would matter if, say, Trump came out of the closet.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
That said, my feeling is that enough time has passed that (both sides) a honest and open discussion should be possible regarding Rob and his life. I know up-thread I took serious exception with some of the things said about him, but that was literally in the first days after he'd died. It's been months now, and the only people who (I think) might have the right to be offended would be his family, and I'm guessing none of them are active members here, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Maybe their is an article or interview where he discusses when it became problematic ...
Talk away if you want...and in your case trash talk.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon