Should Pearl Jam Play in Israel?

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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Drowned Out said:
    According to reports from the ground, Yorke spoke sparsely throughout the night, saying at the end of the show, “A lot of stuff has been said about this, but in the end, we played some music.”  
    Pussy.

    "Pussy". Nice. How Trump of you. Again...it was just about music. That's all it ever was. BDS chose to make a bigger deal out of it and lost. I'm sure you're the fan that they are willing to lose. 

    Meanwhile it looks like NME was pranked

    https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timeinc.net/nme/news/music/radiohead-cover-pink-floyds-money-israel-concert-2113226%3fsource=dam

    I'm pretty sure Money was not played.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    BTW:  BDS did issue a statement about the gnr show.  From what I can see, it was completely ignored.  GnR has never had an ounce of politics or activism associated with them. They are the anti-Radiohead, and a nostalgia act at this point.  Radiohead has a political history.  They could have tried ignoring it but it wouldn't have helped.  They chose not to address the criticism, instead they got self righteous and talked about how woke they are and their excuses, then flipped their fans off.  Well, Thom did anyway.  Where's Greenwood through all of this?  Silence from him...
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Drowned Out said:
    BTW:  BDS did issue a statement about the gnr show.  From what I can see, it was completely ignored.  GnR has never had an ounce of politics or activism associated with them. They are the anti-Radiohead, and a nostalgia act at this point.  Radiohead has a political history.  They could have tried ignoring it but it wouldn't have helped.  They chose not to address the criticism, instead they got self righteous and talked about how woke they are and their excuses, then flipped their fans off.  Well, Thom did anyway.  Where's Greenwood through all of this?  Silence from him...
    Not silence... 27 songs

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/consequenceofsound.net/2017/07/radiohead-finally-takes-the-stage-in-israel-plays-their-longest-concert-in-11-years-setlist-video/amp/

    Great setlist
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,970
    BS44325 said:
    Drowned Out said:
    According to reports from the ground, Yorke spoke sparsely throughout the night, saying at the end of the show, “A lot of stuff has been said about this, but in the end, we played some music.”  
    Pussy.

    "Pussy". Nice. How Trump of you. Again...it was just about music. That's all it ever was. BDS chose to make a bigger deal out of it and lost. I'm sure you're the fan that they are willing to lose. 

    Meanwhile it looks like NME was pranked

    https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timeinc.net/nme/news/music/radiohead-cover-pink-floyds-money-israel-concert-2113226%3fsource=dam

    I'm pretty sure Money was not played.
    Wow, "pussy" upsets you and you immediately associate the word with Trump. See? You're learning. But coming from someone who throws the word fascist around? Snowflakes be a melting.
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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited July 2017
    Drowned Out said:

    BS44325 said:
    Drowned Out said:

    As has been said all along about both Radiohead's show and any potential PJshow there....you can say you don't support the goverent of Israel till you're blue in the face...but that won't stop them from using your brand/band to normalize their apartheid state.  Radiohead should be ashamed.  They won't live this down.   Is it really worth it?

    Radiohead gig promoted by Israeli diplomatic missions around the world

    Radiohead are a band that many had associated with progressive politics. But now it turns out they have an extraordinary following among Israeli diplomats and right-wing conservatives. From US radio host Glenn Beck and Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler, a range of around twenty Israel lobby groups, and thirteen Israeli diplomatic missions around the world from Ireland to Colombia, these groups are united in their explicit contempt for the indigenous Palestinian people’s lives.

    The Jerusalem Post described Radiohead’s Israel gig and Thom Yorke’s rejection of the Palestinian call for BDS as “the best hasbara [advocacy] Israel has received lately”. Thom Yorke has defended their decision saying that “playing in a country isn’t the same as endorsing its government”, but the Israeli government and its supporters certainly do endorse Radiohead.
    Palestinian, Israeli and UK artists and activistshave repeatedly pointed to the inevitable instrumentalisation  of the band’s appearance in Tel Aviv by Israel and its supporters.

    Here are samples of messaging from June and July.

    (See link)

    https://artistsforpalestine.org.uk/2017/07/19/radiohead-gig-promoted-by-israeli-diplomatic-missions-around-the-world/


    But who chose to make this an issue Drowned? Radiohead made no statement for or against Israel...they just simply announced a concert date. It was Roger Waters and BDS who insisted on making this a bigger issue...who insisted on pressuring Radiohead not to play. To quote Thom Yorke "playing Israel is not an endorsement Of Netanyahu anymore then playing the US is an endorsement of Trump". If BDS just left this alone then "friends of Israel" would not be using this as a political endorsement. Nobody said a word about GNR playing there last week and hence it wasn't turned into an issue. The reason the Radiohead show has become a big deal is that Waters and BDS recognize them as a band with integrity and it hurts the BDS movement to see a band of that calibre perform. Waters should have let this go but no....he had to make this into a bigger deal then it should be. He took to the media to shut this down and he lost. BDS lost.
    BDS is not some monolithic machine.  It is a representation of the Palestinian people.  Palestinians lost.
    The Palestinian people aren't monolithic either. Some of them disagree with BDS and want to see Radiohead play in Tel Aviv. You scoffed at the fan who was given the opportunity to do so. He in fact is probably risking his life attending the show...not by danger in Israel...but by rejectionist Palestinians who often punish their own for breaking ranks. 
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited July 2017
    BS44325 said:
    Drowned Out said:
    According to reports from the ground, Yorke spoke sparsely throughout the night, saying at the end of the show, “A lot of stuff has been said about this, but in the end, we played some music.”  
    Pussy.

    "Pussy". Nice. How Trump of you. Again...it was just about music. That's all it ever was. BDS chose to make a bigger deal out of it and lost. I'm sure you're the fan that they are willing to lose. 

    Meanwhile it looks like NME was pranked

    https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timeinc.net/nme/news/music/radiohead-cover-pink-floyds-money-israel-concert-2113226%3fsource=dam

    I'm pretty sure Money was not played.

    its just about the music, man.  So grunge of you/them.  There is more to life than music.  And more important things.  Music can help heal and it can bring people together.  But who is it helping, who is it healing...who is it bringing together, and under what banner?

    oh the trump card. Whatever.
    https://youtu.be/-_2_cJxYYhM

  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Drowned Out said:
    BS44325 said:
    Drowned Out said:
    According to reports from the ground, Yorke spoke sparsely throughout the night, saying at the end of the show, “A lot of stuff has been said about this, but in the end, we played some music.”  
    Pussy.

    "Pussy". Nice. How Trump of you. Again...it was just about music. That's all it ever was. BDS chose to make a bigger deal out of it and lost. I'm sure you're the fan that they are willing to lose. 

    Meanwhile it looks like NME was pranked

    https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timeinc.net/nme/news/music/radiohead-cover-pink-floyds-money-israel-concert-2113226%3fsource=dam

    I'm pretty sure Money was not played.

    its just about the music, man.  So grunge of you/them.  There is more to life than music.  And more important things.  Music can help heal and it can bring people together.  But who is it helping, who is it healing...who is it bringing together, and under what banner?

    oh the trump card. Whatever.
    https://youtu.be/-_2_cJxYYhM

    The inspector gadget card. So high brow.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056

    I thought it meant that I acquiesced to the fact that Radiohead played; that your side 'won', without having to spell it out.  Was also a half assed attempt at a little at levity.  
    But I realize nuance and humour have never been your thing.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Disappointed in Radiohead.

    But if they ever come to my neck of the woods (they never do) I would still love to go see them. Saw them in Vancouver for the In Rainbows tour. It was fantastic.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    BS44325 said:
    Drowned Out said:

    BS44325 said:
    Drowned Out said:

    As has been said all along about both Radiohead's show and any potential PJshow there....you can say you don't support the goverent of Israel till you're blue in the face...but that won't stop them from using your brand/band to normalize their apartheid state.  Radiohead should be ashamed.  They won't live this down.   Is it really worth it?

    Radiohead gig promoted by Israeli diplomatic missions around the world

    Radiohead are a band that many had associated with progressive politics. But now it turns out they have an extraordinary following among Israeli diplomats and right-wing conservatives. From US radio host Glenn Beck and Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler, a range of around twenty Israel lobby groups, and thirteen Israeli diplomatic missions around the world from Ireland to Colombia, these groups are united in their explicit contempt for the indigenous Palestinian people’s lives.

    The Jerusalem Post described Radiohead’s Israel gig and Thom Yorke’s rejection of the Palestinian call for BDS as “the best hasbara [advocacy] Israel has received lately”. Thom Yorke has defended their decision saying that “playing in a country isn’t the same as endorsing its government”, but the Israeli government and its supporters certainly do endorse Radiohead.
    Palestinian, Israeli and UK artists and activistshave repeatedly pointed to the inevitable instrumentalisation  of the band’s appearance in Tel Aviv by Israel and its supporters.

    Here are samples of messaging from June and July.

    (See link)

    https://artistsforpalestine.org.uk/2017/07/19/radiohead-gig-promoted-by-israeli-diplomatic-missions-around-the-world/


    But who chose to make this an issue Drowned? Radiohead made no statement for or against Israel...they just simply announced a concert date. It was Roger Waters and BDS who insisted on making this a bigger issue...who insisted on pressuring Radiohead not to play. To quote Thom Yorke "playing Israel is not an endorsement Of Netanyahu anymore then playing the US is an endorsement of Trump". If BDS just left this alone then "friends of Israel" would not be using this as a political endorsement. Nobody said a word about GNR playing there last week and hence it wasn't turned into an issue. The reason the Radiohead show has become a big deal is that Waters and BDS recognize them as a band with integrity and it hurts the BDS movement to see a band of that calibre perform. Waters should have let this go but no....he had to make this into a bigger deal then it should be. He took to the media to shut this down and he lost. BDS lost.
    BDS is not some monolithic machine.  It is a representation of the Palestinian people.  Palestinians lost.
    The Palestinian people aren't monolithic either. Some of them disagree with BDS and want to see Radiohead play in Tel Aviv. You scoffed at the fan who was given the opportunity to do so. He in fact is probably risking his life attending the show...not by danger in Israel...but by rejectionist Palestinians who often punish their own for breaking ranks. 
    I scoffed at the promoter, not the fan.  Tho you're right he probably is in danger...just as much from Mossad as from any Palestinian radical.  Your fantasy would be mad good propaganda bro!
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,000
    fuck radiohead. i'm done.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,288
    BS44325 said:
    josevolution said:
    BS44325 said:
    This is an important voice...

    http://www.newsweek.com/why-radiohead-should-perform-israel-638086

    It's a shame that so many want to shut it down.

    While I disagree with Michael Stipe's use of the term "occupation" he is entitled to his belief and his/Radiohead's approach is the correct one:

    http://pitchfork.com/news/michael-stipe-i-stand-with-radiohead-in-israel-concert-controversy/

    Radiohead is showing true courage and it would be nice to see Pearl Jam provide support in the same manner that Michael Stipe did. Art and freedom of expression are under assault by Roger Waters and the rest of BDS...they have no power to change Israel's behaviour so they focus on attacking artists who dare to bring their message to the people. Whether PJ weighs in or not it is quite clear now that Radiohead will not back down in the face of BDS facism and Waters and his brethren will take a massive hit tomorrow. A band who for decades could not be bought or sold, who maintained integrity in their art and their political positions, will not be silenced. Bravo to Radiohead for they have laid bare the viciousness of Waters and BDS and have showed other artists that they need not be afraid.
    Get it thru your head PJ will never ever perform in Israel ok take that to your bank yeah yeah poor Israelí population yet you fail to give the same sympathy to the suppressed Palestinian fans !
    I don't expect Pearl Jam Israel. 


    Depends on what Bruce does.  Does Israel have bathroom laws about who can poop where on the books?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Jason P said:
    BS44325 said:
    josevolution said:
    BS44325 said:
    This is an important voice...

    http://www.newsweek.com/why-radiohead-should-perform-israel-638086

    It's a shame that so many want to shut it down.

    While I disagree with Michael Stipe's use of the term "occupation" he is entitled to his belief and his/Radiohead's approach is the correct one:

    http://pitchfork.com/news/michael-stipe-i-stand-with-radiohead-in-israel-concert-controversy/

    Radiohead is showing true courage and it would be nice to see Pearl Jam provide support in the same manner that Michael Stipe did. Art and freedom of expression are under assault by Roger Waters and the rest of BDS...they have no power to change Israel's behaviour so they focus on attacking artists who dare to bring their message to the people. Whether PJ weighs in or not it is quite clear now that Radiohead will not back down in the face of BDS facism and Waters and his brethren will take a massive hit tomorrow. A band who for decades could not be bought or sold, who maintained integrity in their art and their political positions, will not be silenced. Bravo to Radiohead for they have laid bare the viciousness of Waters and BDS and have showed other artists that they need not be afraid.
    Get it thru your head PJ will never ever perform in Israel ok take that to your bank yeah yeah poor Israelí population yet you fail to give the same sympathy to the suppressed Palestinian fans !
    I don't expect Pearl Jam Israel. 


    Depends on what Bruce does.  Does Israel have bathroom laws about who can poop where on the books?
    It seems pretty clear that it is only a matter of time until Bruce plays there

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/bruce-springsteen-i-really-need-to-play-in-israel/


  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited July 2017
    Google Bruce Springsteen Israel and check the results.  Any mention of playing Israel is politicized instantly.  And no, not just by Israel and it's media, but by BDS.  
    Artist's know that there is a perception of support for Israel amongst proponents of BDS if you choose to play israel.  Not sure what the number would be in the US....but polls show that 78% of Canadians think the boycott call is reasonable.  Even if only a percentage of that number feel strongly enough to stop supporting an artist for crossing the picket, Radiohead and Springsteen and PJ and anyone else getting offers from Israeli promoters should realize how many people they are opposing and possibly alienating. They have to know what they are getting into.  They are perceived as taking a side no matter how badly (they claim) they want it to be about the music and the fans.  So I don't feel sorry for any of them being pressured or scrutinized....and I wish the ones who are declining to play would speak up.  I believe Roger Waters when he says he has American friends who want to, but are scared for their careers.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he had Eddie in mind when saying that.
    The Bruce rumours have been around for quite a while.  Nothing materialized for the tour the rumours were centred around.  Hopefully he has enough conscience to, if not speak out, at least avoid playing there.  Or maybe he was considering it and Jason's joke went the other way?  Maybe Eddie and Roger influenced him not to.  I'm pretty sure Bruce Springsteen doesn't tell EV what to think, any more than Roger Waters does.
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,288
    I think cultural boycotts are dumb, but if you draw a line in the sand as Mr Waters has claimed, why kick off a US tour when the US government funds the Israel military?   

    Fuck Israel. Fuck Palestine. Fuck the King. 

    Viva Radiohead. 
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    I guess you haven't read (or choose to ignore) the numerable times that question has been addressed.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,288
    I don't enjoy engaging in Israel/Palestine debates because both ends of the spectrum are so set in their views that debate isn't even an option.  

    As as much as I dispised the USSR, I cannot deny they produced artistic prodigies.  It would (probably was) a shame if some commie bastard denied the world their gift because of hard line politics. 
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,650
    edited July 2017
    Jason P said:
    I don't enjoy engaging in Israel/Palestine debates because both ends of the spectrum are so set in their views that debate isn't even an option.  

    As as much as I dispised the USSR, I cannot deny they produced artistic prodigies.  It would (probably was) a shame if some commie bastard denied the world their gift because of hard line politics. 
    I agree....  I mostly avoid it because I think BOTH sides are totally wrong and I don't support anyone in that conflict (for different reasons), and also agree with a few points from both sides too, so I don't want to be attacked from both directions, lol. I don't have the energy to deal with that. :tongue:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,288
    Another concept to consider is the "alienation" of people's views while we sit here eating Hot Pockets in North America.

    Agreeing with Mr Waters views of a cultural embargo as a means to convincing a group of elected officials  to force government ideology is in line with agreeing that a US embargo of Iran will change hearts and minds.  

    Seems to me that the majority of Israelis that like Radiohead probably like Pink Floyd and lean to the left.  Why fuck over that segment of population until they are pissed at you?

    How many times can you give the double birds to a general population before they shift to the hard right?

    fyi. The wall tour made $488 million with half of US shows counting for the box office .  Most successful one man tour in history.  But Mr Waters claims it shouldn't be about the money while he sits atop his high horse on Mt Pios. 
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,523
    It's up to fans to show their displeasure if PJ decides to play Israel I'd stop supporting & listening to their music ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....

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