Youth sports

JK_Livin

So my son is trying to make the 11yr old baseball district (A) team for our town. As a 9yr old he was on the A team. As a 10yr old he dropped to the B team. I do not get along with one of the coaches on this team my son is trying to make. He did some shady stuff to get his son moved up the chain and he's not a very good coach to begin with. This is all public knowledge within the community.

For the rec season, I requested that my son would not play for this guy. I haven't spoken to this guy in a year. He comes up to me at my son's game yesterday and asks me if it's true that I wouldn't let my son play for him. I said very calmly and civilly that may be the case and you should pick your team and we'll make our decision. He tells me not to be an asshole. I was laughing on the inside. The convo kind of trailed off because my daughter came up.

He's also on the board of our baseball league and probably got the information about our coaching request through someone else on the board. My question is, why would he come to me and ask me that question when he knows the answer already?

For the record, the only reason I'd want my kid on the A team is because he wants it. He is well aware that he will have more fun and get more playing time on the B team.

I guess I could have more serious issues to worry about but the politics of youth sports is nasty.

Empty Glass

I can't stand the politics. I don't understand the need to win a 7-8 year old league. I try to make my team better and assist other teams players. I mention something to a kid, trying to help him out and the coach says "I can handle it, worry about your own team" or something like that.

The league is a township league. All the kids are going to go to the same high school. In the big picture, they are all on the same team.

JK_Livin

The coaches are more worried about their win loss record than actually teaching the kids how to play, especially this guy.

Empty Glass

We're having a 7-8 year old tourney after the season with a couple of nearby towns. I may volunteer to ump to toss some of these hardcore assholes out of the game

Jamminonthe1

Best part is that 20-25 will play on a varsity team in high school, and that's counting four grades worth of players. Parents spend so much time, effort and money to get their kids to a higher level that for most will never come. And — for the most part — the kids just want to play with their friends.

JK_Livin

How can you be a travel basketball coach, 6th grade, and not work on fundamentals like, FT's, rebounding, passing during every practice? They don't even run suicides!!! The games are harder than the practices. It's driving me crazy.

FrankieG

He came up to ask you because he wanted to confront you, make sure that you know that he knows your request, and to start a fight.

When I was 14? I played baseball for the rec league, we went 2-17. Switched to a different league because of politics and then won 2nd place! That was my only 2 years playing because I sucked but still had fun despite the record/worring about winning so much.

JK_Livin

FrankieG wrote:

He came up to ask you because he wanted to confront you, make sure that you know that he knows your request, and to start a fight.

When I was 14? I played baseball for the rec league, we went 2-17. Switched to a different league because of politics and then won 2nd place! That was my only 2 years playing because I sucked but still had fun despite the record/worring about winning so much.

I'm asking those questions about my son's coach.

Get_Right

I find the travel team thing to be really annoying and competitive, especially for kids under 12.

My wife both agree that its just rec leagues until our kids are a bit older (they are 8 and 5).

JK_Livin

Get_Right wrote:

I find the travel team thing to be really annoying and competitive, especially for kids under 12.

My wife both agree that its just rec leagues until our kids are a bit older (they are 8 and 5).

Not a bad plan. The cream usually rises to the top, except for the politics involved.

Get_Right

JK_Livin wrote:

Get_Right wrote:

I find the travel team thing to be really annoying and competitive, especially for kids under 12.

My wife both agree that its just rec leagues until our kids are a bit older (they are 8 and 5).

Not a bad plan. The cream usually rises to the top, except for the politics involved.

For now, we are just happy they are out there and having fun. The minute that stops we pull the plug. Of course, they are still young. Watching 5 year old girls play lacrosse is a hoot!

gimmesometruth27

as someone who has studied sports psychology, the literature and research concludes that up until age 11, kids do not care if they win or lose. all they care about is whether or not they have fun with their friends. people put too much pressure on these kids at such a young age. most kids eventually burn out because they do not want to feel that pressure from coaches or parents.

when i was a kid i played in a church league that played 14 games. i played in that league from age 5 until 12, and then i switched to a much more competitive league where like 30 games were played. i did not play serious travel baseball until high school, and that is what prepared me for the 2 years of division 1 college ball i played.

the thing parents have to be wary of is the "win at all costs" coaches at such a young age. these are the coaches who have no regard for the kid's safety. these are the coaches who will take one pitcher and ride him every game all year. i see kids like that weekly in our MD office. they end up with stress fractures in the growth plates of their elbows and shoulders. this is want is called "little league elbow" or "little league shoulder". if your kid has this injury, they are completely shut down from baseball and any use of that arm for 3 months. then they have to complete 3-5 weeks of physical therapy to regain strength after the injury. once PT is completed, then they can begin a graduated return to throw and return to pitching protocol, which takes about 3 weeks barring any setbacks. once they complete that then they can return to baseball with no restriction. if this fails, and if the injury looks bad on the mri, like if the growth plate is displaced, sometimes they need surgery.

there are established pitch counts for every age group broken down by age (skeletally immature ages, up to age 16 for boys) that breaks down the maximum safe number of pitches per game, per week, per month, and per season. it also breaks down appropriate ages when they can start throwing breaking balls. these pitch counts were designed with injury prevention in mind. every kid we see with a little league elbow or shoulder was unaware of these pitch counts and the coaches kept the kids in there way beyond the maximum number of safe pitches.

i guess the point of my post is just make sure the kids are having fun, don't put too much pressure on them, and make sure the coach adheres to the established pitch counts/safety standards.

JK_Livin

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

as someone who has studied sports psychology, the literature and research concludes that up until age 11, kids do not care if they win or lose. all they care about is whether or not they have fun with their friends. people put too much pressure on these kids at such a young age. most kids eventually burn out because they do not want to feel that pressure from coaches or parents.

when i was a kid i played in a church league that played 14 games. i played in that league from age 5 until 12, and then i switched to a much more competitive league where like 30 games were played. i did not play serious travel baseball until high school, and that is what prepared me for the 2 years of division 1 college ball i played.

the thing parents have to be wary of is the "win at all costs" coaches at such a young age. these are the coaches who have no regard for the kid's safety. these are the coaches who will take one pitcher and ride him every game all year. i see kids like that weekly in our MD office. they end up with stress fractures in the growth plates of their elbows and shoulders. this is want is called "little league elbow" or "little league shoulder". if your kid has this injury, they are completely shut down from baseball and any use of that arm for 3 months. then they have to complete 3-5 weeks of physical therapy to regain strength after the injury. once PT is completed, then they can begin a graduated return to throw and return to pitching protocol, which takes about 3 weeks barring any setbacks. once they complete that then they can return to baseball with no restriction. if this fails, and if the injury looks bad on the mri, like if the growth plate is displaced, sometimes they need surgery.

there are established pitch counts for every age group broken down by age (skeletally immature ages, up to age 16 for boys) that breaks down the maximum safe number of pitches per game, per week, per month, and per season. it also breaks down appropriate ages when they can start throwing breaking balls. these pitch counts were designed with injury prevention in mind. every kid we see with a little league elbow or shoulder was unaware of these pitch counts and the coaches kept the kids in there way beyond the maximum number of safe pitches.

i guess the point of my post is just make sure the kids are having fun, don't put too much pressure on them, and make sure the coach adheres to the established pitch counts/safety standards.

Where can I find these pitch count charts?

gimmesometruth27

this is the one that ours is based on. we have changed it up just a little bit because this one looks crowded with the clip art and stuff, but the pitch counts and ages are pretty standardized.

http://www.csosortho.com/pdf/baseball-p ... -types.pdf

gimmesometruth27

here is a more in-depth source. this is the little league position statement on pitching. it relies on that same research from the american sports medicine institute.

http://www.littleleague.org/assets/old_ ... n_2008.pdf

gimmesometruth27

just to clarify, the injuries i talked about are not just specific to pitchers. in our practice we see just as many catchers with these overuse injuries. to a lesser extent shortstops and 3rd basemen. we rarely see it in an outfielder just because they make significantly less throws per game. unless they also pitch. that is when we usually see it in outfielders. but the pitch count applies to all pitchers, whether they primarily pitch, or whether they pitch in a secondary or tertiary role.

JK_Livin

Thanks for the info.

JK_Livin

I just had to cut 4 kids off a 12yr old travel baseball team and call their dads. 2 of the families we are tight with. This sucks.

JK_Livin

I received a text last night from a dad of one of the kids on my baseball team. It was a pic of his son on crutches with an air cast. He had to go to the ER because of a bench clearing brawl in his youth hockey game. He said there were Police, Ambulance, parents on ice.

MayDay10

I didnt see a thread on this and found this on a search.

Just wanted to say that Youth Sports are literally insane.  My son is only 8 (soon to be 9), and I think I can write a book on what we have been through.  Worse yet, I feel like I'm probably a piece of the insanity as well.  You need to be.  

a5pj

This thread make me feel good. Not for all the crap of these sports but that there's other who view young sports the way I do.
When I coached T-ball and young kids track I focused on trying hard, learning the game, having fun and encouraging your teammates. I rotated kids so everyone got a chance at everything.
Sports shouldn't be competitive until maybe varsity?? and even then they're only in HS.

MayDay10

Our rec league experience thus far, is that it is pretty much a rotational/fun basis.  Maybe if you are in a playoff game, the team may lean on their 'better' players a little more in some key positions and at the top of the batting order.  You absolutely need a 1B who can catch or the game is pointless.  When I was coaching, I would ask random kids where they wanted to play the most next inning.  I encountered 1 coach who tried to work the system, loading his lineup, moving all his kids in out of position for weaker hitters.  It was gross.

Hockey rec/house is the same thing.  In a perfect world, each team has 2 lines, and the clock buzzes every 1:30 or 2:00 to change the lines.  Most places don't even keep score.  Its fine and a huge emphasis on instruction.  USA Hockey does a great job vetting coaches.

It is when you get above that it gets sketchy.  Baseball here, the season is very short.  Kids will not improve with 12 low key games and a few practices that are mainly batting practice run by volunteer dads.  The difference between kids who play travel and only house is plain as day as they get 100x as many reps, and even practice indoors before the season.  The kids want to be there, and honestly, have more fun playing travel than the house league.

Hockey is kind of similar, but after the age of 8, everyone gets funneled into travel of some sort and they don't really have house leagues anymore per-se.  Or at least they are rare.  They have a MOHL which stands for "Multi-Organizational-House-League" which is meant for non-travel players to continue and have fun.

cblock4life

All parks, ball fields, etc. should have signs “no parents allowed” instead of “no pets” 

dankind

Because of all the horror stories I've heard (and because I have some from my own childhood), I signed up to help coach my son's farm league team for the 2021 little league season, and I wound up coaching his summer tourney and fall ball teams as well.

I love it. And I haven't had any problems with awful coaches on our teams yet, though I've seen some on opposing teams. One funny complaint I heard from a parent who doesn't even have a kid in the program was that my son's farm team manager was horribly competitive. When I stated that simply wasn't true and that everyone got to play and our emphases were on fun, support, being a good teammate, etc., her comeback was, "Well, you won the championship, right?"

So winning is frowned upon, I guess. We're all dicks if we win.

Anyway, I replied that yes, the message for the entire season was that if we had fun, were supportive of teammates, and listened to our coaches, the W's would come. And they did.

MayDay10

My son's hockey team is pretty nuts.  There are cliques of parents and I feel like we are in Oz sometimes as opposed to a youth hockey facility.  My son is really good, we are leaving next year for one of the two top AAA programs, and it is quietly known I think... parents and coaches are actively trying to undermine him.    Pretty sure team funds are missing too.

dankind

Youth hockey is a shitshow.  My daughter plays for two teams (town co-ed and regional elite club girls' team), and my son just plays for the town team.

The parents and coaches are, for the most part, deplorable pieces of shit, so much so that I often start cheering for the opponents.

I just watch the games from ice level so that I don't have to hear all of the terrible things these garbagepeople are saying to and about children that are just trying to have fun while learning to play a incredibly difficult game. And I notice that the parents are much more awful if there's an opposing player who is Black or Brown.

MayDay10

dankind said:

I just watch the games from ice level so that I don't have to hear all of the terrible things these garbage people are saying to and about children 

lol, I do the same exact thing.  I have a corner standing spot that I spend all my time in.  A few parents have joined me.  

MayDay10

I have had to politick pretty hard for my kid though.  He came from a hidden gem of an instructional program.  He outgrew it though, he would score like 20 goals in a game, was learning puck hog tendencies, and would accidentally hurt other kids with shots.  He tried out for a regional elite team, there was one spot, they didn't know us (he actually did not have a good tryout tbh) and he got cut.  He was crushed, was crying, and right there he vowed to make the team next time.

He tried out for/made more of a travel team at 8 for exposure and he was ready for it.  He has begged me to take him to any clinic I can find.  He loves practicing and working at it, and has come a long way, even though his coach tries to sit on him.  I felt it necessary to do my part and do what I can to advocate for him, and I made some contacts and got him noticed.  His league also tracks everything including stats/leaders which helps.  My kid was/is 2nd in points and 1st in assists most of the season.  One of the teams he wants to play for is practically begging for him to come play next year, and the other team (the one he really really wants to play for) said they are considering him and are watching some of his games.  He also made a top Spring team that consists mostly of those players.

He is having a great time though, but he gets upset with things that happen on his current team.  The parent cliques carry over to players.  The coach's son is wild and uncontrolled.  He gets benched for missing practice one time (for baseball) while another coach's kid who was at the same baseball practice started at center.  He is always on the 2nd/3rd line.  They have gone to the scorer during games and given his goals to someone else.  Despite being their leading scorer, he is yet to receive a 'player of the game' puck from the coach after the game in front of the team, etc....  If there is a close game, he will get very little playing time in the 3rd period.   I think there is some jealousy.  Probably hard feelings because it was probably always clear that we would be moving on after this season.  I don't know.  I do feel like I have some sort of responsibility in all of it too.

Gern Blansten

MayDay10 said:

I have had to politick pretty hard for my kid though.  He came from a hidden gem of an instructional program.  He outgrew it though, he would score like 20 goals in a game, was learning puck hog tendencies, and would accidentally hurt other kids with shots.  He tried out for a regional elite team, there was one spot, they didn't know us (he actually did not have a good tryout tbh) and he got cut.  He was crushed, was crying, and right there he vowed to make the team next time.

He tried out for/made more of a travel team at 8 for exposure and he was ready for it.  He has begged me to take him to any clinic I can find.  He loves practicing and working at it, and has come a long way, even though his coach tries to sit on him.  I felt it necessary to do my part and do what I can to advocate for him, and I made some contacts and got him noticed.  His league also tracks everything including stats/leaders which helps.  My kid was/is 2nd in points and 1st in assists most of the season.  One of the teams he wants to play for is practically begging for him to come play next year, and the other team (the one he really really wants to play for) said they are considering him and are watching some of his games.  He also made a top Spring team that consists mostly of those players.

He is having a great time though, but he gets upset with things that happen on his current team.  The parent cliques carry over to players.  The coach's son is wild and uncontrolled.  He gets benched for missing practice one time (for baseball) while another coach's kid who was at the same baseball practice started at center.  He is always on the 2nd/3rd line.  They have gone to the scorer during games and given his goals to someone else.  Despite being their leading scorer, he is yet to receive a 'player of the game' puck from the coach after the game in front of the team, etc....  If there is a close game, he will get very little playing time in the 3rd period.   I think there is some jealousy.  Probably hard feelings because it was probably always clear that we would be moving on after this season.  I don't know.  I do feel like I have some sort of responsibility in all of it too.

My son played hockey for 6 years. Those were some of the best times that we spent together. Great youth sport.

But yes...what you are describing sounds familiar. We tried out for the travel team but didn't make it. He did make the rec all start team for the last 3-4 years that he played.  Lots of dad coaches and lots of BS with playing time, power play or penalty kill roster which always included the coaches kid, etc. Overtime shoot outs that included coaches kid when he wasn't even in the top 10 scorers.  Lots of frustration. 

My son played soccer and hockey and had to give up hockey once he hit high school.

JeBurkhardt

I coached T-ball, minor league (step up from T-ball) and Little League baseball, girl's softball and swore I would never do it again after dealing with parents, other coaches and league presidents. Unbelievable politics, petty jealousy and overall stupidity. A few years later my friend was coaching coed soccer, but didn't know anything about soccer, and talked me into helping him. I lasted 2 years before I had to step away again. My kids are all grown and out of the house now, so in a few years I can go to the games as grandfather/cheerleader and enjoy the games without getting stuck in the drama.

Gern Blansten

My son's first experience with club soccer was interesting. I think someone described a similar situation above where one of the rec coaches stacked his team and they just dominated everyone mostly through aggressive play and dirty play.

One of the issues related to two twins that insisted on playing on the same team. I get that I guess but that was part of the problem as they were both aggressive players for that age.

We're talking 8 year old boys that would slide tackle from behind, push, etc., which was clearly coached behavior.

At one of our games our team was actually tied with them. We had a breakaway and the coaches kid took our shooter down from behind with a slide tackle. The kid went flying.  His dad flipped out and wanted to fight the coach....he said something to the effect of "my fists are like 357 magnums" and that got the cops called. He was then banned from the fields and I believe he pulled his kid from our team

It sucked because he was one of our best players

Six years later those twins left our high school because they made the freshman team for soccer rather than JV. Their parents just couldn't take that so they took them to a local private Catholic school.