On a side note there is a nuclear plant in either Arizona or California that has three locker rooms. So the issue is addressed.
Hey cool - it's kind of like having separate water fountains. What a good idea. :fp:
Transgendered people identify as the sex opposite of that which they were born, and that is what they're striving to be identified as by others. Not as a third gender that has to be separated from the other two. To have a third washroom/locker room for them would only be ostracizing, wouldn't it? (yes, it would)
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Not at all. They are probably trying to make everyone comfortable. :fp:
Nah, let's do it your way and only have ONE bathroom. Men, women, whatever, get in there. Make sure to take the doors off the stalls too since we are all now one harmonious group. In fact lets just have a trough in the floor, no doors, no walls.
Nah, let's do it your way and only have ONE bathroom. Men, women, whatever, get in there. Make sure to take the doors off the stalls too since we are all now one harmonious group. In fact lets just have a trough in the floor, no doors, no walls.
I never said I supported unisex washrooms. Actually, I said the opposite of that.
But I am not sure why you are comparing this issue - allowing those who identify as a particular gender to use that appropriate washroom - with a complete loss of privacy in public washrooms. One has nothing to do with the other.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Your logic is to make a high majority uncomfortable because a very small minority. I respect the rights of an individual and the three rooms is acceptable to give everyone what they need. This person, despite how they feel, is not physically that way. It is not racial as you suggested. If the person was born a man, then use the men's room, if the person was born a woman then use the woman's if three isn't acceptable to you.
Your logic is to make a high majority uncomfortable because a very small minority. I respect the rights of an individual and the three rooms is acceptable to give everyone what they need. This person, despite how they feel, is not physically that way. It is not racial as you suggested. If the person was born a man, then use the men's room, if the person was born a woman then use the woman's if three isn't acceptable to you.
Well, for one, I don't think that a high majority would be uncomfortable. In fact, I think that 99% of people wouldn't even know the difference.
Also, um, yeah, that's how it works. Minorities are often accommodated for the sake of equality, even when some people aren't comfortable with it. That is USUALLY the case when it comes to civil rights and equality issues.... Let me just say that I'm glad that you don't sit as a Supreme court judge!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Your logic is to make a high majority uncomfortable because a very small minority. I respect the rights of an individual and the three rooms is acceptable to give everyone what they need. This person, despite how they feel, is not physically that way. It is not racial as you suggested. If the person was born a man, then use the men's room, if the person was born a woman then use the woman's if three isn't acceptable to you.
what you just wrote tells me that you do not respect the right of an individual.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Actually I offered multiple solutions so that everyone would be satisfied. You guys are determined to try to force one individual to use a particular restroom even though it would put that individual in an uncomfortable situation at best and a dangerous situation at worst.
And don't tell me 99% of the people can't tell. There aren't many women out there (Ann Coulter aside) that are 6'3" with Adam's Apples.
Actually I offered multiple solutions so that everyone would be satisfied. You guys are determined to try to force one individual to use a particular restroom even though it would put that individual in an uncomfortable situation at best and a dangerous situation at worst.
And don't tell me 99% of the people can't tell. There aren't many women out there (Ann Coulter aside) that are 6'3" with Adam's Apples.
i will bypass the stereotypes that you just presented. no one is forcing anyone to use a washroom. what is being said here is that trans people should being able to use the washroom of the sex that they identify with if they choose to without the fear of being arrested as the law in Arizona would do to them.
also, i can introduce you to many trans people who you would never know where trans.
also concerning your fear that some trans people could be harm, many of the trans people i know say that it would actually be worse if there was a 3rd washroom for just trans people. Can you guess why?
its much easier to beat up a trans person when they are all lined up for their washroom.
Post edited by fife on
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
edited March 2013
Ok fine.
What's your solution? What if they are men that haven't undergone any changes but they identify themselves as women?
On a side note there is a nuclear plant in either Arizona or California that has three locker rooms. So the issue is addressed.
If they want to really address the issue shouldn't their be 4 change rooms? Transgender women (born men) shouldn't have to share change rooms with transgender men (born women).
Again I don't understand why people are so uncomfortable in Arizona. Do washrooms there not have stalls? If they are still worried adopt the George Costanza route where the stall walls go all the way down to the floor.
As far as what bathroom to use...I find that to be an interesting discussion.
hippiemom = goodness
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
edited March 2013
I don't know, I was merely offering an example at possibly solving the issue and showing that it wasn't entirely ignored. No matter what not everyone will be happy.
Very sadly. Police forces are often fuuuuuucked uuup.
Ahhh, it's nice we can generalize about the police and not the transgendered. Is that right? I'm trying to keep up.
:fp: Those two things aren't the same at all. In one case we're talking about police corruption from which people need to be protected, and in the other, we're talking about the civil/equality rights of transgendered people (into which generalization doesn't even come into play, so I don't know what you mean).
Just because someone worries about police corruption and will not rely on a police force to always do the right thing does not mean they think every cop is corrupt. Come on, you know that.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
:fp: Those two things aren't the same at all. In one case we're talking about police corruption from which people need to be protected, and in the other, we're talking about the civil/equality rights of transgendered people (into which generalization doesn't even come into play, so I don't know what you mean).
Just because someone worries about police corruption and will not rely on a police force to always do the right thing does not mean they think every cop is corrupt. Come on, you know that.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. "Police forces are often fuuuuuuuucked uupp" Please tell me what you mean by this then and exactly what is your definition of "often".
:fp: Those two things aren't the same at all. In one case we're talking about police corruption from which people need to be protected, and in the other, we're talking about the civil/equality rights of transgendered people (into which generalization doesn't even come into play, so I don't know what you mean).
Just because someone worries about police corruption and will not rely on a police force to always do the right thing does not mean they think every cop is corrupt. Come on, you know that.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. "Police forces are often fuuuuuuuucked uupp" Please tell me what you mean by this then and exactly what is your definition of "often".
(whatever helps me sleep at night? Whaaa?) Well "often" obviously doesn't mean all the time. I also didn't say that POLICE are fucked up. I said police FORCES often are. And I made that distinction for a reason. And it is absolutely true, particularly in Vancouver. This is not an opinion. It's a fact where I live.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
On a side note there is a nuclear plant in either Arizona or California that has three locker rooms. So the issue is addressed.
If they want to really address the issue shouldn't their be 4 change rooms? Transgender women (born men) shouldn't have to share change rooms with transgender men (born women).
Again I don't understand why people are so uncomfortable in Arizona. Do washrooms there not have stalls? If they are still worried adopt the George Costanza route where the stall walls go all the way down to the floor.
do be fair to Arizona, its not like america is very advance when it comes to sex and sexuality.
just ask Janet Jackson. she got killed because someone saw her nipple on TV.
On a side note there is a nuclear plant in either Arizona or California that has three locker rooms. So the issue is addressed.
If they want to really address the issue shouldn't their be 4 change rooms? Transgender women (born men) shouldn't have to share change rooms with transgender men (born women).
Again I don't understand why people are so uncomfortable in Arizona. Do washrooms there not have stalls? If they are still worried adopt the George Costanza route where the stall walls go all the way down to the floor.
do be fair to Arizona, its not like america is very advance when it comes to sex and sexuality.
just ask Janet Jackson. she got killed because someone saw her nipple on TV.
America is weirdly prude-like, it's true. But I don't think that that is connected to these kinds of issues. A nipple shocks people unduly, but these issues around gender equality, etc involve actual hate and intolerance, not prudery.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
On a side note there is a nuclear plant in either Arizona or California that has three locker rooms. So the issue is addressed.
If they want to really address the issue shouldn't their be 4 change rooms? Transgender women (born men) shouldn't have to share change rooms with transgender men (born women).
Again I don't understand why people are so uncomfortable in Arizona. Do washrooms there not have stalls? If they are still worried adopt the George Costanza route where the stall walls go all the way down to the floor.
do be fair to Arizona, its not like america is very advance when it comes to sex and sexuality.
just ask Janet Jackson. she got killed because someone saw her nipple on TV.
America is weirdly prude-like, it's true. But I don't think that that is connected to these kinds of issues. A nipple shocks people unduly, but these issues around gender equality, etc involve actual hate and intolerance, not prudery.[/quote]
I agree, was trying to make a joke. I don't know if its just hate and intolerance but ignorance also. for example, i know so many people who are unaware of gender equality issues until it is explained to them. for example where I work we have a program that goes around the province teaching professionals in social services about trans issues and so many times they come to us after the workshop to talk about how they never thought of the things that we were presenting to them.
again, i do believe that there are people who are just full of hate that will always hate but many people i think can be reached. At least i hope so.
do be fair to Arizona, its not like america is very advance when it comes to sex and sexuality.
just ask Janet Jackson. she got killed because someone saw her nipple on TV.
America is weirdly prude-like, it's true. But I don't think that that is connected to these kinds of issues. A nipple shocks people unduly, but these issues around gender equality, etc involve actual hate and intolerance, not prudery.
I agree, was trying to make a joke. I don't know if its just hate and intolerance but ignorance also. for example, i know so many people who are unaware of gender equality issues until it is explained to them. for example where I work we have a program that goes around the province teaching professionals in social services about trans issues and so many times they come to us after the workshop to talk about how they never thought of the things that we were presenting to them.
again, i do believe that there are people who are just full of hate that will always hate but many people i think can be reached. At least i hope so.
Don't forget the when you're telling jokes in the AMT.
Yeah, agreed, a LOT of it seems to be ignorance. As far as I can tell just from this thread, some people truly do not understand what being transgendered is. I think a good deal of that ignorance is the result of people not WANTING to understand it, because of their intolerance, but in some cases I suppose people just like to keep their heads down and really don't understand what's going on when it comes to gender equality, what it means, and how it impacts people.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
just another question to anyone here. what exactly is "looking like a man or a woman mean?" please answer this question without the unnecessary stereotypes.
looking like a man means you have testicles & their buddy between the legs & may be physically hairy & may be muscular in build.
looking like a woman means your breats may be enlarged, less body hair, & no penis or testicles are present between the legs but rather a vagina is present & generally woman are beautiful & desire poetry writing vikings to take them full on & make love to them until the cows quit coming home
looking like a man means you have testicles & their buddy between the legs & may be physically hairy & may be muscular in build.
looking like a woman means your breats may be enlarged, less body hair, & no penis or testicles are present between the legs but rather a vagina is present & generally woman are beautiful & desire poetry writing vikings to take them full on & make love to them until the cows quit coming home
yes/no?
Maybe. The only transgendered men I've known did have fully developed breasts because they were on hormone therapy, did not have body hair for the same reason combined with grooming, and one didn't have balls or a penis. He had a vagina. One was somewhat muscular (but I've known women who were more so), and the others were not. One was just slim, the other chubby.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
There are a bunch of restrooms in my area (Cambridge/Somerville, MA) that have gone unisex in the last few months. Some single stall, some with multiple individual stalls. Once you get past the initial weirdness of men and women milling in and around the same bathroom, you just sorta get used to it. I can't speak for the women, but as a guy it's really no big deal.
looking like a man means you have testicles & their buddy between the legs & may be physically hairy & may be muscular in build.
looking like a woman means your breats may be enlarged, less body hair, & no penis or testicles are present between the legs but rather a vagina is present & generally woman are beautiful & desire poetry writing vikings to take them full on & make love to them until the cows quit coming home
yes/no?
no, how about intersex? where a person has both male and female body parts.
Accessing public bathrooms can be a major issue for the GLBTI community due to physical and sexual assault by others, as is accessing appropriate healthcare, social services etc. Gender neutral bathrooms are a way of improving personal safety.
Comments
very
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Right? In an exhausting article, that was the most bizarre argument. There are kids in both bathrooms. How would this prevent or exacerbate anything?
Transgendered people identify as the sex opposite of that which they were born, and that is what they're striving to be identified as by others. Not as a third gender that has to be separated from the other two. To have a third washroom/locker room for them would only be ostracizing, wouldn't it? (yes, it would)
Nah, let's do it your way and only have ONE bathroom. Men, women, whatever, get in there. Make sure to take the doors off the stalls too since we are all now one harmonious group. In fact lets just have a trough in the floor, no doors, no walls.
I never said I supported unisex washrooms. Actually, I said the opposite of that.
But I am not sure why you are comparing this issue - allowing those who identify as a particular gender to use that appropriate washroom - with a complete loss of privacy in public washrooms. One has nothing to do with the other.
Also, um, yeah, that's how it works. Minorities are often accommodated for the sake of equality, even when some people aren't comfortable with it. That is USUALLY the case when it comes to civil rights and equality issues.... Let me just say that I'm glad that you don't sit as a Supreme court judge!
what you just wrote tells me that you do not respect the right of an individual.
And don't tell me 99% of the people can't tell. There aren't many women out there (Ann Coulter aside) that are 6'3" with Adam's Apples.
Ahhh, it's nice we can generalize about the police and not the transgendered. Is that right? I'm trying to keep up.
i will bypass the stereotypes that you just presented. no one is forcing anyone to use a washroom. what is being said here is that trans people should being able to use the washroom of the sex that they identify with if they choose to without the fear of being arrested as the law in Arizona would do to them.
also, i can introduce you to many trans people who you would never know where trans.
also concerning your fear that some trans people could be harm, many of the trans people i know say that it would actually be worse if there was a 3rd washroom for just trans people. Can you guess why?
its much easier to beat up a trans person when they are all lined up for their washroom.
What's your solution? What if they are men that haven't undergone any changes but they identify themselves as women?
If they want to really address the issue shouldn't their be 4 change rooms? Transgender women (born men) shouldn't have to share change rooms with transgender men (born women).
Again I don't understand why people are so uncomfortable in Arizona. Do washrooms there not have stalls? If they are still worried adopt the George Costanza route where the stall walls go all the way down to the floor.
As far as what bathroom to use...I find that to be an interesting discussion.
Just because someone worries about police corruption and will not rely on a police force to always do the right thing does not mean they think every cop is corrupt. Come on, you know that.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. "Police forces are often fuuuuuuuucked uupp" Please tell me what you mean by this then and exactly what is your definition of "often".
do be fair to Arizona, its not like america is very advance when it comes to sex and sexuality.
just ask Janet Jackson. she got killed because someone saw her nipple on TV.
I agree, was trying to make a joke. I don't know if its just hate and intolerance but ignorance also. for example, i know so many people who are unaware of gender equality issues until it is explained to them. for example where I work we have a program that goes around the province teaching professionals in social services about trans issues and so many times they come to us after the workshop to talk about how they never thought of the things that we were presenting to them.
again, i do believe that there are people who are just full of hate that will always hate but many people i think can be reached. At least i hope so.
Yeah, agreed, a LOT of it seems to be ignorance. As far as I can tell just from this thread, some people truly do not understand what being transgendered is. I think a good deal of that ignorance is the result of people not WANTING to understand it, because of their intolerance, but in some cases I suppose people just like to keep their heads down and really don't understand what's going on when it comes to gender equality, what it means, and how it impacts people.
just another question to anyone here. what exactly is "looking like a man or a woman mean?" please answer this question without the unnecessary stereotypes.
looking like a man means you have testicles & their buddy between the legs & may be physically hairy & may be muscular in build.
looking like a woman means your breats may be enlarged, less body hair, & no penis or testicles are present between the legs but rather a vagina is present & generally woman are beautiful & desire poetry writing vikings to take them full on & make love to them until the cows quit coming home
yes/no?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
no, how about intersex? where a person has both male and female body parts.