Arizona mulls transgender washroom use

81

this would be a mute or is it moot...whatever...you figure it out...

point is

it's time to stop the segregation of restrooms....

PJ_Soul

Jason P wrote:

To be serious, I think this falls under the "tough crap" catagory for transgendered people. That may sound harsh, but as a women, would you want a man in the gym shower room with you, even if that person identifies as a female ... and this person is a complete stranger.

I think not.

I would not mind at all if a transgendered WOMAN shared the gym shower with me. I consider transgendered men women. I call them "she". Now how about you - would you feel comfortable with a transgendered man being in the shower with you? Perhaps someone who's moving towards or has already had a sex change? A "man" with breasts and possibly a vagina but maybe a penis? Because that's what you're suggesting would make more sense. Although frankly, I doubt there are many transgendered people who have had such a wonderfully smooth and harassment free life that they would be showering publicly anyway. Most of them, from what I can tell, are quite concerned about becoming targets in those kinds of situations.

81

Jason P wrote:

Now a women coming into a men's shower ... I don't think most dudes will mind. :fp:

depends on the woman

or maybe the guy is jovial

fife

Jason P wrote:

fife wrote:

Jason P wrote:

To be serious, I think this falls under the "tough crap" catagory for transgendered people. That may sound harsh, but as a women, would you want a man in the gym shower room with you, even if that person identifies as a female ... and this person is a complete stranger.

I think not.

to be honest most of the transgender people I know don't go into public showers because they don't feel comfortable.

The biggest problem I see is men who are not transgender exploiting this clause.

Now a women coming into a men's shower ... I don't think most dudes will mind. :fp:

I understand your point, but I just don't believe that many men will actually do that. the really solution to this problem is no more male or female designated washrooms. I don't understand why we can just have unisex washrooms as someone else mentioned already.

PJ_Soul

I'll also highlight the fact that these a-holes are suggesting that it would simply be up to police on whether or not they should charge women for using men's restrooms because of long lines... But if a "man" (actually woman!) is caught using a women's washroom they could go to prison for 6 months??! What about female transgendereds? Because I'm smelling a serious double-standard. There is just so much wrong crammed into this one little article I can hardly believe it.

PJ_Soul

81 wrote:

this would be a mute or is it moot...whatever...you figure it out...

point is

it's time to stop the segregation of restrooms....

(moot )

Unisex washroom are actually a bad idea IMO. The men would be subjected to line ups suddenly, and women would be subjected to men taking giant dumps in public.

fife

PJ_Soul wrote:

81 wrote:

this would be a mute or is it moot...whatever...you figure it out...

point is

it's time to stop the segregation of restrooms....

(moot )

Unisex washroom are actually a bad idea IMO. The men would be subjected to line ups suddenly, and women would be subjected to men taking giant dumps in public.

I find that many of my friends who are trans actually like the idea of unisex single stall washrooms. this whole conversation reminds me of when woman shelters in Toronto were trying to figure out how to deal with trans woman wanting to use their shelters. many were afraid that woman would be afraid but when they started letting trans woman into the shelter they soon saw that there was no problems.

PJ_Soul

fife wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

81 wrote:

this would be a mute or is it moot...whatever...you figure it out...

point is

it's time to stop the segregation of restrooms....

(moot )

Unisex washroom are actually a bad idea IMO. The men would be subjected to line ups suddenly, and women would be subjected to men taking giant dumps in public.

I find that many of my friends who are trans actually like the idea of unisex single stall washrooms. this whole conversation reminds me of when woman shelters in Toronto were trying to figure out how to deal with trans woman wanting to use their shelters. many were afraid that woman would be afraid but when they started letting trans woman into the shelter they soon saw that there was no problems.

Yeah, trans people do like the idea of unisex (I know a few myself) ... Just not my preference. I certainly don't care if I come across one. Just would rather it didn't become the norm. And I really can't see how men could be on board with them... women take way too long compared to the them, stay too long at the mirrors, etc. Doesn't really seem fair to the guys.

chadwick

PJ_Soul wrote:

I'll also highlight the fact that these a-holes are suggesting that it would simply be up to police on whether or not they should charge women for using men's restrooms because of long lines... But if a "man" (actually woman!) is caught using a women's washroom they could go to prison for 6 months??! What about female transgendereds? Because I'm smelling a serious double-standard. There is just so much wrong crammed into this one little article I can hardly believe it.

?say what

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I'll also highlight the fact that these a-holes are suggesting that it would simply be up to police on whether or not they should charge women for using men's restrooms because of long lines... But if a "man" (actually woman!) is caught using a women's washroom they could go to prison for 6 months??! What about female transgendereds? Because I'm smelling a serious double-standard. There is just so much wrong crammed into this one little article I can hardly believe it.

?say what

What are you confused about?
I'm referring to this part of the article:

"For a handful of people to make everyone else uncomfortable just makes no sense."

But, Mr Kavanagh added, police would be allowed to use their discretion over whether to press charges if women used the men's room to avoid a long queue.

fife

PJ_Soul wrote:

I'll also highlight the fact that these a-holes are suggesting that it would simply be up to police on whether or not they should charge women for using men's restrooms because of long lines... But if a "man" (actually woman!) is caught using a women's washroom they could go to prison for 6 months??! What about female transgendereds? Because I'm smelling a serious double-standard. There is just so much wrong crammed into this one little article I can hardly believe it.

i don't understand completely what you are saying here but i will try to see if i do.

Are you saying that you find that the punishment is harder for male to female trans person as compared to a female to male person.

PJ_Soul

fife wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I'll also highlight the fact that these a-holes are suggesting that it would simply be up to police on whether or not they should charge women for using men's restrooms because of long lines... But if a "man" (actually woman!) is caught using a women's washroom they could go to prison for 6 months??! What about female transgendereds? Because I'm smelling a serious double-standard. There is just so much wrong crammed into this one little article I can hardly believe it.

i don't understand completely what you are saying here but i will try to see if i do.

Are you saying that you find that the punishment is harder for male to female trans person as compared to a female to male person.

Hmm. Seems I'm more clear in my own head.
Yeah, it's up to the discretion of the cops to charge a female using a men's washroom (which they wouldn't), but if they find a transgendered man in the women's washroom (s)he goes to prison?? Not only is it a double standard for women vs men, but also one for non-transgendered vs transgendered. And I just figure these bigots aren't clever enough to have given any thought to the scenario where a female transgendered person (so living as a man) uses a men's washroom. Would they send her to prison for 6 months? Or would that be up to the discretion of the police, since she is a female in the men's washroom? What if (s)he just says she was skipping a line up? Does she get off? And would the line up excuse work for a guy? .... :think:

chadwick

you are reading way too much into a pile of bullshit. stop. it is not complicated.

leaving it up to the police officers means exactly that. which mean nothing will happen to anyone unless something like blood or guts were spilled.

if your dude was once actually a woman or your woman who was once a man uses the restrooms they are not going to get jail time. 6 months in jail is out of control & a huffy scare tactic or some shit.

Jason P

fife wrote:

I understand your point, but I just don't believe that many men will actually do that. the really solution to this problem is no more male or female designated washrooms. I don't understand why we can just have unisex washrooms as someone else mentioned already.

I don't know about Europe, but all the unisex restrooms I've seen are single occupancy. So it's a moot point in the US.

As for your first point ... I assume you are a women ... Because a man's sexual drive .... Well ... Vatican City.

'nough said ...

Jason P

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jason P wrote:

To be serious, I think this falls under the "tough crap" catagory for transgendered people. That may sound harsh, but as a women, would you want a man in the gym shower room with you, even if that person identifies as a female ... and this person is a complete stranger.

I think not.

I would not mind at all if a transgendered WOMAN shared the gym shower with me. I consider transgendered men women. I call them "she". Now how about you - would you feel comfortable with a transgendered man being in the shower with you? Perhaps someone who's moving towards or has already had a sex change? A "man" with breasts and possibly a vagina but maybe a penis? Because that's what you're suggesting would make more sense. Although frankly, I doubt there are many transgendered people who have had such a wonderfully smooth and harassment free life that they would be showering publicly anyway. Most of them, from what I can tell, are quite concerned about becoming targets in those kinds of situations.

To be honest, I don't like showering with guys around period. :oops:

Bentleyspop

I've said it before and I'll say it again...Arizona is one back-asswards state :fp:

PJ_Soul

Jason P wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jason P wrote:

To be serious, I think this falls under the "tough crap" catagory for transgendered people. That may sound harsh, but as a women, would you want a man in the gym shower room with you, even if that person identifies as a female ... and this person is a complete stranger.

I think not.

I would not mind at all if a transgendered WOMAN shared the gym shower with me. I consider transgendered men women. I call them "she". Now how about you - would you feel comfortable with a transgendered man being in the shower with you? Perhaps someone who's moving towards or has already had a sex change? A "man" with breasts and possibly a vagina but maybe a penis? Because that's what you're suggesting would make more sense. Although frankly, I doubt there are many transgendered people who have had such a wonderfully smooth and harassment free life that they would be showering publicly anyway. Most of them, from what I can tell, are quite concerned about becoming targets in those kinds of situations.

To be honest, I don't like showering with guys around period. :oops:

Well, yeah, don't look at me. I wouldn't share a shower with any stranger, male or female. I'm a single occupancy showerer. But plenty of people don't mind showering publicly!

Jason P

PJ_Soul wrote:

Well, yeah, don't look at me. I wouldn't share a shower with any stranger, male or female. I'm a single occupancy showerer. But plenty of people don't mind showering publicly!

yeah, it would be even more intimidating for me to shower with a bunch of girls ... :oops: :oops: :oops:

even though it seems like it should be my ultimate fantasy :fp:

Perhaps I can find a local support group of females (gymnasts perhaps) to help me overcome this phobia ...

8-)



:geek:

:fp:

:corn:

PJ_Soul

Jason P wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Well, yeah, don't look at me. I wouldn't share a shower with any stranger, male or female. I'm a single occupancy showerer. But plenty of people don't mind showering publicly!

yeah, it would be even more intimidating for me to shower with a bunch of girls ... :oops: :oops: :oops:

even though it seems like it should be my ultimate fantasy :fp:

Perhaps I can find a local support group of females (gymnasts perhaps) to help me overcome this phobia ...

8-)



:geek:

:fp:

:corn:

I am pretty sure you can fairly easily find some females willing to help you... for a price.

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

you are reading way too much into a pile of bullshit. stop. it is not complicated.

leaving it up to the police officers means exactly that. which mean nothing will happen to anyone unless something like blood or guts were spilled.

if your dude was once actually a woman or your woman who was once a man uses the restrooms they are not going to get jail time. 6 months in jail is out of control & a huffy scare tactic or some shit.

That's nice that you don't care about this issue (not sure why are you even participating in the discussion if you think it's bullshit), but it still bothers me that legislators are actively talking about restricting the rights of transgendered people by exclusively considering what sex they were when they were born. That part of this story is pretty significant if you care about the rights of this group of people, which I do, since I've known and been friends with some.