Stop using "gay" as a pejorative

Prince Of Dorkness

whgarrett wrote:

I absolutely see where you are coming from Prince of Dorkness.

See, I didn't even realize that. It had to be pointed out to me.

Thank You for the correction.

Oh hey look... I've made SO many social faux pas when trying to dip my toe in a new culture.

So no harm done.. just something that makes me bristle when I hear it.

Bentleyspop

For the people on here and elsewhere who thinks being gay is a choice......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2jpmG8fgr4

Awesome vid Jasun

Horos

PJ_Soul wrote:

And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.

It doesn't take a keen sense of empathy to understand what's going on here. People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand. Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me. I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.

When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer? Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.

All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit. Turning people into sheep is what it's accomplishing. Hope that doesn't offend any sheppards

PJ_Soul

Horos wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.

It doesn't take a keen sense of empathy to understand what's going on here. People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand. Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me. I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.

When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer? Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.

All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit. Turning people into sheep is what it's accomplishing. Hope that doesn't offend any sheppards

I do understand what you're saying... although I don't think that getting rid of the term gay as a negative adjective is people being sheep.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Horos wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.

It doesn't take a keen sense of empathy to understand what's going on here. People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand. Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me. I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.

When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer? Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.

I disagree.

The 'word' in such a context has an implication: inferior and undesirable.

While the word will not necessarily damage someone... the attitude behind it will. At a bare minimum... it perpetuates the notion that being gay is something one should scorn.

Prince Of Dorkness

Horos wrote:

People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand.

Clearly you do NOT understand.

Horos wrote:

Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me.

But see.. it's NOT the word. And we all know that words and not "just words." When you use "gay" to describe an inanimate object in an unflattering way, you have just callously dehumanized anyone gay who might be in ear's reach AND let them know in no uncertain terms that you feel unflattering things about them, too.

Horos wrote:

I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.

So? You don't worry about offending other people... why should anyone care what you are offended by?

When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer?

Can you tell us what makes a sweater "gay?" And I actually do want to know what kind of sweater you would describe as a "gay" sweater.

Horos wrote:

Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.

are you sure about that" Or - like many gay people - do they just go back to their friends and say "Ugh... he's a total jerk and constantly calls ugly sweaters "gay" and frankly I don't want to bother even telling him to cut it out because he'll then launch into one of those annoying screeds about the "PC police" and how he's all "offended" that people say he can't say "gay" when he wants. Meh... one day he'll say that in front of a member of the pink pistols and he'll learn it the hard way. anyway... tea?"

All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit.

Well then go to Jerusalem and talk about how you want to bargain by "jewing them down" a bit.

Come back and tell us what they said.

Prince Of Dorkness

Bentleyspop wrote:

For the people on here and elsewhere who thinks being gay is a choice......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2jpmG8fgr4

Awesome vid Jasun

Haha... I'd forgotten about that one. Oh, I miss that ranch house up in the hills...

Horos

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Horos wrote:

People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand.

Clearly you do NOT understand.

Horos wrote:

Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me.

But see.. it's NOT the word. And we all know that words and not "just words." When you use "gay" to describe an inanimate object in an unflattering way, you have just callously dehumanized anyone gay who might be in ear's reach AND let them know in no uncertain terms that you feel unflattering things about them, too.

Horos wrote:

I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.

So? You don't worry about offending other people... why should anyone care what you are offended by?

When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer?

Can you tell us what makes a sweater "gay?" And I actually do want to know what kind of sweater you would describe as a "gay" sweater.

Horos wrote:

Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.

are you sure about that" Or - like many gay people - do they just go back to their friends and say "Ugh... he's a total jerk and constantly calls ugly sweaters "gay" and frankly I don't want to bother even telling him to cut it out because he'll then launch into one of those annoying screeds about the "PC police" and how he's all "offended" that people say he can't say "gay" when he wants. Meh... one day he'll say that in front of a member of the pink pistols and he'll learn it the hard way. anyway... tea?"

All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit.

Well then go to Jerusalem and talk about how you want to bargain by "jewing them down" a bit.

Come back and tell us what they said.

Well I certainly respect your opinion on the subject and I think you have helped me understand it a little better.

I was serious about the word queer. Is that not acceptable anymore? And I see how it can be derogatory. Thus making the word gay derogatory.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Bentleyspop wrote:

For the people on here and elsewhere who thinks being gay is a choice......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2jpmG8fgr4

Awesome vid Jasun

Haha... I'd forgotten about that one. Oh, I miss that ranch house up in the hills...

I know why you'd wanna be taller. Just listen to this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA

PJ_Soul

Prince of Dorkness, I agree with everything you've said.

Prince Of Dorkness

Horos wrote:

Well I certainly respect your opinion on the subject and I think you have helped me understand it a little better.

I was serious about the word queer. Is that not acceptable anymore? And I see how it can be derogatory. Thus making the word gay derogatory.

Any word that is used to describe a community of people like that should probably ONLY be used to describe that group of people unless you yourself are ONE of those people and know the intricacies of it's alternate use.

One of the biggest problems with words that describe the GLBT community is that most of them at one point WERE used as weapons. And while the gay community has rather defiantly taken those words back to flippantly use among ourselves, it really only works when we do it.

Case in point... Let's just say - and I'll never admit this in public and you can't make me - that someone was to discover that I have a Barbra Streisand album. If a gay friend said "dude, that's pretty gay," it would be universally understood that he's poking fun at stereotypes that I otherwise probably don't really fit. But if a straight friend said that, suddenly the actual intent of it is a lot more blurry. I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."

Prince Of Dorkness

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I know why you'd wanna be taller. Just listen to this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA

As I have said many times... "You call me short one more time and I'm going to reach right up and punch you in the nuts."

PJ_Soul

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Horos wrote:

Well I certainly respect your opinion on the subject and I think you have helped me understand it a little better.

I was serious about the word queer. Is that not acceptable anymore? And I see how it can be derogatory. Thus making the word gay derogatory.

Any word that is used to describe a community of people like that should probably ONLY be used to describe that group of people unless you yourself are ONE of those people and know the intricacies of it's alternate use.

One of the biggest problems with words that describe the GLBT community is that most of them at one point WERE used as weapons. And while the gay community has rather defiantly taken those words back to flippantly use among ourselves, it really only works when we do it.

Case in point... Let's just say - and I'll never admit this in public and you can't make me - that someone was to discover that I have a Barbra Streisand album. If a gay friend said "dude, that's pretty gay," it would be universally understood that he's poking fun at stereotypes that I otherwise probably don't really fit. But if a straight friend said that, suddenly the actual intent of it is a lot more blurry. I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."

Lame? Why shouldn't we be able to say that? I do not know of any group of people who identify themselves as "lame". That is a legitimate adjective that has been used to describe people or animals who are injured, but it's not a label applied to an identifiable group. Let's not go overboard here.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I know why you'd wanna be taller. Just listen to this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA

As I have said many times... "You call me short one more time and I'm going to reach right up and punch you in the nuts."

The older I get... the closer they seem to be getting to the ground. They're likely in range. Let me apologize- I'm vulnerable!

Prince Of Dorkness

PJ_Soul wrote:

I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."

Lame? Why shouldn't we be able to say that? I do not know of any group of people who identify themselves as "lame". That is a legitimate adjective that has been used to describe people or animals who are injured, but it's not a label applied to an identifiable group. Let's not go overboard here.

Uh... Read that again. You can use "lame." I did.

In fact... Instead of saying "that's so gay" you can say "that's so lame" and everyone will understand what you meant and nobody will think you're "lame" for saying it.

PJ_Soul

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."

Lame? Why shouldn't we be able to say that? I do not know of any group of people who identify themselves as "lame". That is a legitimate adjective that has been used to describe people or animals who are injured, but it's not a label applied to an identifiable group. Let's not go overboard here.

Uh... Read that again. You can use "lame." I did.

In fact... Instead of saying "that's so gay" you can say "that's so lame" and everyone will understand what you meant and nobody will think you're "lame" for saying it.

:fp: Sorry. I've been out of it all day. I got the "as" and the "or" mixed up apparently. :? J better try and get lots of sleep tonight

Who Princess

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Trying to navigate through the intricate social constructs of cultures other than your own is always a dangerous game and it's best to just not try to do it. I have a lot of what I hesitate to call "fans" in the deaf community. The visual style of a lot of my movies means that it's easy to follow the storyline without hearing dialogue (or so I've been told). So I've often been asked to appear at functions for the deaf gay community. I'm always happy to go, the parties are usually a lot of fun and I really like them a lot.

BUT... deaf culture is a very unique and difficult one to navigate. It's something that they have built up over generations, they have many of their own customs and consider many different things "rude" or "polite" that we may feel is totally the opposite. I won't get into it too much here but there are many reasons that culture exists and while I might not understand why it all is... it's something I respect because it's there for a reason. There are no arbitrary reasons that things are the way they are when dealing with cultural things.

The rule I have always followed when I find myself in a new culture such as that is to just accept the rules as they are and not question them or even try to step into it. When I tried to come up with my own name in Sign, I was told that a deaf person must come up with it for me. I can't do it myself. I didn't understand why that was and it didn't make sense to me exactly... but I didn't question it and the next day I got this in my email....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQNORq_H5o8

Which I thought was pretty cool.

Awesome video.

I was going through a conversation like this with someone I work with only a week or so ago. She insisted on using the term "hearing impaired" and I was trying to explain that there IS such a thing as deaf culture and that the preferred term is deaf. She was concerned that we would offend somebody by using the term they prefer.

A bit off topic, I know, but it reminded me that it's usually a bad idea to make assumptions about a culture you're not a part of.

Prince Of Dorkness

PJ_Soul wrote:

:fp: Sorry. I've been out of it all day. I got the "as" and the "or" mixed up apparently. :? J better try and get lots of sleep tonight

Haha... you had ME scared. I went back and read it to make sure I typed it properly and to be fair... the quotes I put around "lame" threw me at first too.

That's so lame.

Last-12-Exit

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Fcja4WFFzDw

POD, are you sensitive or offended to this type of comedy? Would you be angry at a friend who thought it was funny?

Prince Of Dorkness

Last-12-Exit wrote:

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Fcja4WFFzDw

POD, are you sensitive or offended to this type of comedy? Would you be angry at a friend who thought it was funny?

I mean... comedy is a hard line to walk and I think he does it pretty well. His bit here isn't about laughing at the gay guys, it's about laughing at how just the subject makes many straight guys - even the non-homophobic ones - squirm just a bit.

So you're laughing more at HIM and not the "faggot" in that case.

The comedians who've REALLY nailed the whole "being straight but telling gay jokes" are Kathy Griffin and Jon Stewart. Their standup is razor-sharp in the way that they can tell "gay" jokes but make them funny but still actually mega-supportive without ever being anything but funny. And NEVER seeming preachy.

And then there's the jokes like Sam Kinnison who ranted about how he didn't want to spent government money researching (what was then called) AIDS "because some faggot fucked some monkeys."

I still remember when he died, the gay sports bar I hung out at had a "memorial" for him where they had his face on dart boards and when the drag nuns got up on stage to do his eulogy, they just burst out into a chorus of "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead."

Eddie Murphy tried to do it but the 80s was a bad time to try. He tried the whole "what straight guys are REALLY scared of is to be ass raped by Mr. T" bit which could have been hilarious if he didn't then go on about how "women kiss their gay friends and come home with the AIDS on their lips."

However... I'll tell you this... the first time that the straight mainstream really took much notice of the gay community really standing up for themselves was when the protests of Sam Kinnison and Andrew Dice Clay hit the news. It got a lot of rolled eyes but the ball got rolling.