I think everyone has such a small amount of time on this planet that I shouldn't judge them for what lifestyle choices they make.
For the record... my people find the term "lifestyle choice" to be about as offensive as saying "that's so gay" when saying something is weak or bad or unfair.
'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.'
Something like that is what I was taught as a child many years ago. I can't relate to being even slightly bothered by name calling let alone offended. But I am not a member of any minority groups either.
As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't. I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone's speech. These are simply words and many seem to choose to be offended by them. Both of the words actually had a different meaning before being applied to these minority groups.
Again I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand how one can be bothered by such nonsense.
Guess I'll never have the chance to 'walk a mile in their shoes'.
Personally I don't like any people in general and it makes no difference to me if you are homosexual or black(is that okay to say Kat? Or do I still have to say African American? Seems to change every day).
Take a page from the Hebrews, I never hear them whining about the pejorative Jew.
Flame away and say what you will. I won't be offended because they're only words.
'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.'
Something like that is what I was taught as a child many years ago. I can't relate to being even slightly bothered by name calling let alone offended. But I am not a member of any minority groups either.
As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't. I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone's speech. These are simply words and many seem to choose to be offended by them. Both of the words actually had a different meaning before being applied to these minority groups.
Again I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand how one can be bothered by such nonsense.
Guess I'll never have the chance to 'walk a mile in their shoes'.
Personally I don't like any people in general and it makes no difference to me if you are homosexual or black(is that okay to say Kat? Or do I still have to say African American? Seems to change every day).
Take a page from the Hebrews, I never hear them whining about the pejorative Jew.
Flame away and say what you will. I won't be offended because they're only words.
As an American Jew whose family escaped the Shoah I have no problem being called a Jew.
"The word Jew has been used often enough in a disparaging manner by antisemites that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries it was frequently avoided altogether, and the term Hebrew was substituted instead (e.g. Young Men's Hebrew Association). Even today some people are wary of its use, and prefer to use "Jewish". Indeed, when used as an adjective (e.g. "Jew lawyer") or verb (e.g. "to jew someone"),[1] the term Jew is purely pejorative. However, when used as a noun, "Jew" is preferred, as other circumlocutions (e.g. "Jewish person") give the impression that the term "Jew" is offensive in all contexts."
'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.'
Something like that is what I was taught as a child many years ago. I can't relate to being even slightly bothered by name calling let alone offended. But I am not a member of any minority groups either.
As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't. I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone's speech. These are simply words and many seem to choose to be offended by them. Both of the words actually had a different meaning before being applied to these minority groups.
Again I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand how one can be bothered by such nonsense.
Guess I'll never have the chance to 'walk a mile in their shoes'.
Personally I don't like any people in general and it makes no difference to me if you are homosexual or black(is that okay to say Kat? Or do I still have to say African American? Seems to change every day).
Take a page from the Hebrews, I never hear them whining about the pejorative Jew.
Flame away and say what you will. I won't be offended because they're only words.
I know someone said it, but i see no relation between the word gay and the N word. No one is expected to stop saying the word gay altogether. We still call gay people gay. The word isn't for only gay people to use, and calling gay people gay is not prejudiced. So let's stop pretending that it's anything like the N word.
And yeah, I have definitly never met a Jew who would be upset about being called a Jew. Obviously if the word is used as a punchline at the end of a bigotted joke or as a negative adjective, the context is suddenly changed, and that's where the problem arises, obviously, just like with the word gay. Of course Jews are offended when the word Jew is used as a pejorative term. And of course gays are offended when the word gay is used in the same way. As for the N word - that is necessarily a pejorative term all the time. In using when black people use it. I think it is in credibly strange that they do, and yes, extremely hypocritical that they can say it and no one else can (it should not be acceptable for anyone to say it), and i do not understand at all how that is accepted among many black people as readily as it is (although i k kw that some black people donhave a real kssue with this). I think it demonstrates some deeper issues, as does the use of the word faggot among gay people. Just because some of them are using the word themselves doesn't make it okay IMO.
And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But then I read where KAT feels the need to warn us to behave? I don't get it.
Well, I'm with JasonP; I too learned the meaning of pejorative today!
But, I agree with the ones who plan to be more sensative about using the word gay (though it's a term I'm personally not guilty of a flippant use of) but rather, I'm one of those who've never thought much about it. I'd say it's cuz we use our own morals to guide us -- not KATs.
I'm intolerant of intolerance. And, this goes for anyone who assumes that anyone who is NOT gay, or black, or jewish or whatever -- might be suspect of being intolerant.
I'm not presuming to speak for Kat, but I've seen her input in these forums both as a moderator as well as a person just offering her views like the rest of us. Her earlier post struck me as both.
Anyway, totally agree with the last part of your post.
'As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't.
Yes. I know. And I find it excruciating having to hear Straight, Christian White Men crying like babies that they can't use the words that they used as weapons against us for generations because we have taken those words FROM them and now use them in our own ways.
But here's how it is...
Trying to navigate through the intricate social constructs of cultures other than your own is always a dangerous game and it's best to just not try to do it. I have a lot of what I hesitate to call "fans" in the deaf community. The visual style of a lot of my movies means that it's easy to follow the storyline without hearing dialogue (or so I've been told). So I've often been asked to appear at functions for the deaf gay community. I'm always happy to go, the parties are usually a lot of fun and I really like them a lot.
BUT... deaf culture is a very unique and difficult one to navigate. It's something that they have built up over generations, they have many of their own customs and consider many different things "rude" or "polite" that we may feel is totally the opposite. I won't get into it too much here but there are many reasons that culture exists and while I might not understand why it all is... it's something I respect because it's there for a reason. There are no arbitrary reasons that things are the way they are when dealing with cultural things.
The rule I have always followed when I find myself in a new culture such as that is to just accept the rules as they are and not question them or even try to step into it. When I tried to come up with my own name in Sign, I was told that a deaf person must come up with it for me. I can't do it myself. I didn't understand why that was and it didn't make sense to me exactly... but I didn't question it and the next day I got this in my email....
And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.
It doesn't take a keen sense of empathy to understand what's going on here. People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand. Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me. I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.
When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer? Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.
All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit. Turning people into sheep is what it's accomplishing. Hope that doesn't offend any sheppards
And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.
It doesn't take a keen sense of empathy to understand what's going on here. People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand. Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me. I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.
When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer? Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.
All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit. Turning people into sheep is what it's accomplishing. Hope that doesn't offend any sheppards
I do understand what you're saying... although I don't think that getting rid of the term gay as a negative adjective is people being sheep.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.
It doesn't take a keen sense of empathy to understand what's going on here. People are being over sensitive and allowing themselves to be offended by simple words. That's what I don't understand. Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me. I find the fact that someone thinks they can tell me when and how to say something offensive.
When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer? Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.
I disagree.
The 'word' in such a context has an implication: inferior and undesirable.
While the word will not necessarily damage someone... the attitude behind it will. At a bare minimum... it perpetuates the notion that being gay is something one should scorn.
Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me.
But see.. it's NOT the word. And we all know that words and not "just words." When you use "gay" to describe an inanimate object in an unflattering way, you have just callously dehumanized anyone gay who might be in ear's reach AND let them know in no uncertain terms that you feel unflattering things about them, too.
Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.
are you sure about that" Or - like many gay people - do they just go back to their friends and say "Ugh... he's a total jerk and constantly calls ugly sweaters "gay" and frankly I don't want to bother even telling him to cut it out because he'll then launch into one of those annoying screeds about the "PC police" and how he's all "offended" that people say he can't say "gay" when he wants. Meh... one day he'll say that in front of a member of the pink pistols and he'll learn it the hard way. anyway... tea?"
All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit.
Well then go to Jerusalem and talk about how you want to bargain by "jewing them down" a bit.
Everyone has a choice, and some people choose to be offended by words. For me life is too short to worry about what someone else says about me.
But see.. it's NOT the word. And we all know that words and not "just words." When you use "gay" to describe an inanimate object in an unflattering way, you have just callously dehumanized anyone gay who might be in ear's reach AND let them know in no uncertain terms that you feel unflattering things about them, too.
Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.
are you sure about that" Or - like many gay people - do they just go back to their friends and say "Ugh... he's a total jerk and constantly calls ugly sweaters "gay" and frankly I don't want to bother even telling him to cut it out because he'll then launch into one of those annoying screeds about the "PC police" and how he's all "offended" that people say he can't say "gay" when he wants. Meh... one day he'll say that in front of a member of the pink pistols and he'll learn it the hard way. anyway... tea?"
All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit.
Well then go to Jerusalem and talk about how you want to bargain by "jewing them down" a bit.
Come back and tell us what they said.
Well I certainly respect your opinion on the subject and I think you have helped me understand it a little better.
I was serious about the word queer. Is that not acceptable anymore? And I see how it can be derogatory. Thus making the word gay derogatory.
Well I certainly respect your opinion on the subject and I think you have helped me understand it a little better.
I was serious about the word queer. Is that not acceptable anymore? And I see how it can be derogatory. Thus making the word gay derogatory.
Any word that is used to describe a community of people like that should probably ONLY be used to describe that group of people unless you yourself are ONE of those people and know the intricacies of it's alternate use.
One of the biggest problems with words that describe the GLBT community is that most of them at one point WERE used as weapons. And while the gay community has rather defiantly taken those words back to flippantly use among ourselves, it really only works when we do it.
Case in point... Let's just say - and I'll never admit this in public and you can't make me - that someone was to discover that I have a Barbra Streisand album. If a gay friend said "dude, that's pretty gay," it would be universally understood that he's poking fun at stereotypes that I otherwise probably don't really fit. But if a straight friend said that, suddenly the actual intent of it is a lot more blurry. I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."
Well I certainly respect your opinion on the subject and I think you have helped me understand it a little better.
I was serious about the word queer. Is that not acceptable anymore? And I see how it can be derogatory. Thus making the word gay derogatory.
Any word that is used to describe a community of people like that should probably ONLY be used to describe that group of people unless you yourself are ONE of those people and know the intricacies of it's alternate use.
One of the biggest problems with words that describe the GLBT community is that most of them at one point WERE used as weapons. And while the gay community has rather defiantly taken those words back to flippantly use among ourselves, it really only works when we do it.
Case in point... Let's just say - and I'll never admit this in public and you can't make me - that someone was to discover that I have a Barbra Streisand album. If a gay friend said "dude, that's pretty gay," it would be universally understood that he's poking fun at stereotypes that I otherwise probably don't really fit. But if a straight friend said that, suddenly the actual intent of it is a lot more blurry. I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."
Lame? Why shouldn't we be able to say that? I do not know of any group of people who identify themselves as "lame". That is a legitimate adjective that has been used to describe people or animals who are injured, but it's not a label applied to an identifiable group. Let's not go overboard here.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."
Lame? Why shouldn't we be able to say that? I do not know of any group of people who identify themselves as "lame". That is a legitimate adjective that has been used to describe people or animals who are injured, but it's not a label applied to an identifiable group. Let's not go overboard here.
Uh... Read that again. You can use "lame." I did.
In fact... Instead of saying "that's so gay" you can say "that's so lame" and everyone will understand what you meant and nobody will think you're "lame" for saying it.
I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."
Lame? Why shouldn't we be able to say that? I do not know of any group of people who identify themselves as "lame". That is a legitimate adjective that has been used to describe people or animals who are injured, but it's not a label applied to an identifiable group. Let's not go overboard here.
Uh... Read that again. You can use "lame." I did.
In fact... Instead of saying "that's so gay" you can say "that's so lame" and everyone will understand what you meant and nobody will think you're "lame" for saying it.
:fp: Sorry. I've been out of it all day. I got the "as" and the "or" mixed up apparently. :? J better try and get lots of sleep tonight
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Trying to navigate through the intricate social constructs of cultures other than your own is always a dangerous game and it's best to just not try to do it. I have a lot of what I hesitate to call "fans" in the deaf community. The visual style of a lot of my movies means that it's easy to follow the storyline without hearing dialogue (or so I've been told). So I've often been asked to appear at functions for the deaf gay community. I'm always happy to go, the parties are usually a lot of fun and I really like them a lot.
BUT... deaf culture is a very unique and difficult one to navigate. It's something that they have built up over generations, they have many of their own customs and consider many different things "rude" or "polite" that we may feel is totally the opposite. I won't get into it too much here but there are many reasons that culture exists and while I might not understand why it all is... it's something I respect because it's there for a reason. There are no arbitrary reasons that things are the way they are when dealing with cultural things.
The rule I have always followed when I find myself in a new culture such as that is to just accept the rules as they are and not question them or even try to step into it. When I tried to come up with my own name in Sign, I was told that a deaf person must come up with it for me. I can't do it myself. I didn't understand why that was and it didn't make sense to me exactly... but I didn't question it and the next day I got this in my email....
I was going through a conversation like this with someone I work with only a week or so ago. She insisted on using the term "hearing impaired" and I was trying to explain that there IS such a thing as deaf culture and that the preferred term is deaf. She was concerned that we would offend somebody by using the term they prefer.
A bit off topic, I know, but it reminded me that it's usually a bad idea to make assumptions about a culture you're not a part of.
:fp: Sorry. I've been out of it all day. I got the "as" and the "or" mixed up apparently. :? J better try and get lots of sleep tonight
Haha... you had ME scared. I went back and read it to make sure I typed it properly and to be fair... the quotes I put around "lame" threw me at first too.
POD, are you sensitive or offended to this type of comedy? Would you be angry at a friend who thought it was funny?
I mean... comedy is a hard line to walk and I think he does it pretty well. His bit here isn't about laughing at the gay guys, it's about laughing at how just the subject makes many straight guys - even the non-homophobic ones - squirm just a bit.
So you're laughing more at HIM and not the "faggot" in that case.
The comedians who've REALLY nailed the whole "being straight but telling gay jokes" are Kathy Griffin and Jon Stewart. Their standup is razor-sharp in the way that they can tell "gay" jokes but make them funny but still actually mega-supportive without ever being anything but funny. And NEVER seeming preachy.
And then there's the jokes like Sam Kinnison who ranted about how he didn't want to spent government money researching (what was then called) AIDS "because some faggot fucked some monkeys."
I still remember when he died, the gay sports bar I hung out at had a "memorial" for him where they had his face on dart boards and when the drag nuns got up on stage to do his eulogy, they just burst out into a chorus of "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead."
Eddie Murphy tried to do it but the 80s was a bad time to try. He tried the whole "what straight guys are REALLY scared of is to be ass raped by Mr. T" bit which could have been hilarious if he didn't then go on about how "women kiss their gay friends and come home with the AIDS on their lips."
However... I'll tell you this... the first time that the straight mainstream really took much notice of the gay community really standing up for themselves was when the protests of Sam Kinnison and Andrew Dice Clay hit the news. It got a lot of rolled eyes but the ball got rolling.
Comments
Well... yeah, you kind of do have straight rights.
Technically... I don't want "gay rights." I want "equal" rights. And until I do... you DO have straight rights.
I know I know... it's hard to follow me sometimes. I know I don't make it easy sometimes.
I follow you and didn't think of it that way. And I agree with you 100%.
Something like that is what I was taught as a child many years ago. I can't relate to being even slightly bothered by name calling let alone offended. But I am not a member of any minority groups either.
As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't. I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone's speech. These are simply words and many seem to choose to be offended by them. Both of the words actually had a different meaning before being applied to these minority groups.
Again I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand how one can be bothered by such nonsense.
Guess I'll never have the chance to 'walk a mile in their shoes'.
Personally I don't like any people in general and it makes no difference to me if you are homosexual or black(is that okay to say Kat? Or do I still have to say African American? Seems to change every day).
Take a page from the Hebrews, I never hear them whining about the pejorative Jew.
Flame away and say what you will. I won't be offended because they're only words.
See, I didn't even realize that. It had to be pointed out to me.
Thank You for the correction.
As an American Jew whose family escaped the Shoah I have no problem being called a Jew.
"The word Jew has been used often enough in a disparaging manner by antisemites that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries it was frequently avoided altogether, and the term Hebrew was substituted instead (e.g. Young Men's Hebrew Association). Even today some people are wary of its use, and prefer to use "Jewish". Indeed, when used as an adjective (e.g. "Jew lawyer") or verb (e.g. "to jew someone"),[1] the term Jew is purely pejorative. However, when used as a noun, "Jew" is preferred, as other circumlocutions (e.g. "Jewish person") give the impression that the term "Jew" is offensive in all contexts."
And yeah, I have definitly never met a Jew who would be upset about being called a Jew. Obviously if the word is used as a punchline at the end of a bigotted joke or as a negative adjective, the context is suddenly changed, and that's where the problem arises, obviously, just like with the word gay. Of course Jews are offended when the word Jew is used as a pejorative term. And of course gays are offended when the word gay is used in the same way. As for the N word - that is necessarily a pejorative term all the time. In using when black people use it. I think it is in credibly strange that they do, and yes, extremely hypocritical that they can say it and no one else can (it should not be acceptable for anyone to say it), and i do not understand at all how that is accepted among many black people as readily as it is (although i k kw that some black people donhave a real kssue with this). I think it demonstrates some deeper issues, as does the use of the word faggot among gay people. Just because some of them are using the word themselves doesn't make it okay IMO.
And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.
Anyway, totally agree with the last part of your post.
Yes. I know. And I find it excruciating having to hear Straight, Christian White Men crying like babies that they can't use the words that they used as weapons against us for generations because we have taken those words FROM them and now use them in our own ways.
But here's how it is...
Trying to navigate through the intricate social constructs of cultures other than your own is always a dangerous game and it's best to just not try to do it. I have a lot of what I hesitate to call "fans" in the deaf community. The visual style of a lot of my movies means that it's easy to follow the storyline without hearing dialogue (or so I've been told). So I've often been asked to appear at functions for the deaf gay community. I'm always happy to go, the parties are usually a lot of fun and I really like them a lot.
BUT... deaf culture is a very unique and difficult one to navigate. It's something that they have built up over generations, they have many of their own customs and consider many different things "rude" or "polite" that we may feel is totally the opposite. I won't get into it too much here but there are many reasons that culture exists and while I might not understand why it all is... it's something I respect because it's there for a reason. There are no arbitrary reasons that things are the way they are when dealing with cultural things.
The rule I have always followed when I find myself in a new culture such as that is to just accept the rules as they are and not question them or even try to step into it. When I tried to come up with my own name in Sign, I was told that a deaf person must come up with it for me. I can't do it myself. I didn't understand why that was and it didn't make sense to me exactly... but I didn't question it and the next day I got this in my email....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQNORq_H5o8
Which I thought was pretty cool.
Oh hey look... I've made SO many social faux pas when trying to dip my toe in a new culture.
So no harm done.. just something that makes me bristle when I hear it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2jpmG8fgr4
Awesome vid Jasun
When I say, "That's a gay sweater." it is by no means an indictment of homosexuals. Would it be better if I said queer? Or is that even more offensive to the sensitive ears? Both my sister and brother-in-law are openly homosexual and both are also intelligent enough not to be offended the pejorative use of the word gay.
All this PC bullshit is just that bullshit. Turning people into sheep is what it's accomplishing. Hope that doesn't offend any sheppards
I disagree.
The 'word' in such a context has an implication: inferior and undesirable.
While the word will not necessarily damage someone... the attitude behind it will. At a bare minimum... it perpetuates the notion that being gay is something one should scorn.
Clearly you do NOT understand.
But see.. it's NOT the word. And we all know that words and not "just words." When you use "gay" to describe an inanimate object in an unflattering way, you have just callously dehumanized anyone gay who might be in ear's reach AND let them know in no uncertain terms that you feel unflattering things about them, too.
So? You don't worry about offending other people... why should anyone care what you are offended by?
Can you tell us what makes a sweater "gay?" And I actually do want to know what kind of sweater you would describe as a "gay" sweater.
are you sure about that" Or - like many gay people - do they just go back to their friends and say "Ugh... he's a total jerk and constantly calls ugly sweaters "gay" and frankly I don't want to bother even telling him to cut it out because he'll then launch into one of those annoying screeds about the "PC police" and how he's all "offended" that people say he can't say "gay" when he wants. Meh... one day he'll say that in front of a member of the pink pistols and he'll learn it the hard way. anyway... tea?"
Well then go to Jerusalem and talk about how you want to bargain by "jewing them down" a bit.
Come back and tell us what they said.
Haha... I'd forgotten about that one. Oh, I miss that ranch house up in the hills...
I was serious about the word queer. Is that not acceptable anymore? And I see how it can be derogatory. Thus making the word gay derogatory.
I know why you'd wanna be taller. Just listen to this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA
Any word that is used to describe a community of people like that should probably ONLY be used to describe that group of people unless you yourself are ONE of those people and know the intricacies of it's alternate use.
One of the biggest problems with words that describe the GLBT community is that most of them at one point WERE used as weapons. And while the gay community has rather defiantly taken those words back to flippantly use among ourselves, it really only works when we do it.
Case in point... Let's just say - and I'll never admit this in public and you can't make me - that someone was to discover that I have a Barbra Streisand album. If a gay friend said "dude, that's pretty gay," it would be universally understood that he's poking fun at stereotypes that I otherwise probably don't really fit. But if a straight friend said that, suddenly the actual intent of it is a lot more blurry. I would never describe something negative or "lame" as "gay." When I hear a teenager complaining about how he has to stay after school for an hour of detention and says "That's fucking GAY," there is no reference to sexuality of any kind... it's just using that word to mean the same thing as "stupid" or "annoying" or "bad."
As I have said many times... "You call me short one more time and I'm going to reach right up and punch you in the nuts."
The older I get... the closer they seem to be getting to the ground. They're likely in range. Let me apologize- I'm vulnerable!
Uh... Read that again. You can use "lame." I did.
In fact... Instead of saying "that's so gay" you can say "that's so lame" and everyone will understand what you meant and nobody will think you're "lame" for saying it.
I was going through a conversation like this with someone I work with only a week or so ago. She insisted on using the term "hearing impaired" and I was trying to explain that there IS such a thing as deaf culture and that the preferred term is deaf. She was concerned that we would offend somebody by using the term they prefer.
A bit off topic, I know, but it reminded me that it's usually a bad idea to make assumptions about a culture you're not a part of.
Haha... you had ME scared. I went back and read it to make sure I typed it properly and to be fair... the quotes I put around "lame" threw me at first too.
That's so lame.
POD, are you sensitive or offended to this type of comedy? Would you be angry at a friend who thought it was funny?
I mean... comedy is a hard line to walk and I think he does it pretty well. His bit here isn't about laughing at the gay guys, it's about laughing at how just the subject makes many straight guys - even the non-homophobic ones - squirm just a bit.
So you're laughing more at HIM and not the "faggot" in that case.
The comedians who've REALLY nailed the whole "being straight but telling gay jokes" are Kathy Griffin and Jon Stewart. Their standup is razor-sharp in the way that they can tell "gay" jokes but make them funny but still actually mega-supportive without ever being anything but funny. And NEVER seeming preachy.
And then there's the jokes like Sam Kinnison who ranted about how he didn't want to spent government money researching (what was then called) AIDS "because some faggot fucked some monkeys."
I still remember when he died, the gay sports bar I hung out at had a "memorial" for him where they had his face on dart boards and when the drag nuns got up on stage to do his eulogy, they just burst out into a chorus of "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead."
Eddie Murphy tried to do it but the 80s was a bad time to try. He tried the whole "what straight guys are REALLY scared of is to be ass raped by Mr. T" bit which could have been hilarious if he didn't then go on about how "women kiss their gay friends and come home with the AIDS on their lips."
However... I'll tell you this... the first time that the straight mainstream really took much notice of the gay community really standing up for themselves was when the protests of Sam Kinnison and Andrew Dice Clay hit the news. It got a lot of rolled eyes but the ball got rolling.