Stop using "gay" as a pejorative

hedonist

Caveeze wrote:

While lost in a car with my homosexual family member, we came to an intersection and I told him to "go straight"..

He replied in a tizy "I can't!! but, I can go gayly forward!!!"

Love it and I always say it now!!!

Thanks for the

To me, there's nothing "wrong" with being gay any more than with being straight. It just is.

hedonist

Huh. This thread made me revisit a memory.

I was in my mid/late 20s and for various reasons, wasn't really into dating - it seemed, I dunno...tedious.

Had my mom and stepdad over for dinner one evening, having some wine and conversation - which turned to my dating life (or lack thereof).

My mom asked me if I was gay, and I said no.

My stepdad (just *slightly* homophobic :roll: ) asked, "so, you're NOT gay?" In that tone - THAT tone...sure you've all heard it at some point.

I said I'm not, but what if I were? So what? Would you somehow see ME differently? The ME that accepted you into my life even though you were half-responsible for breaking up my parents' marriage?

That's always stuck in my head...sometimes it amuses me and other times...the stench of judgment makes me sad, even these many years later.

Leezestarr313

I think it's interesting that this phenomenon is also present in the German language. I always despised it. I have a lot of friends who are gay. They can use it if they want to. But I won't.

What about the use of the word fag for a cigarette?

hedonist

Leezestarr313 wrote:

I think it's interesting that this phenomenon is also present in the German language. I always despised it. I have a lot of friends who are gay. They can use it if they want to. But I won't.

What about the use of the word fag for a cigarette?

Context/intent is everything...well, most everything.

PJ_Soul

Leezestarr313 wrote:

I think it's interesting that this phenomenon is also present in the German language. I always despised it. I have a lot of friends who are gay. They can use it if they want to. But I won't.

What about the use of the word fag for a cigarette?

It's a different word altogether. No relation to gay people.

brianlux

Leezestarr313 wrote:

I think it's interesting that this phenomenon is also present in the German language. I always despised it. I have a lot of friends who are gay. They can use it if they want to. But I won't.

What about the use of the word fag for a cigarette?

When I was a kid we sometimes referred to a branch for fire wood as a "faggot". I had no idea the word meant anything other than that. The first time I was offered a cigarette in the eight grade a friend of mine wanted to know if i wanted to smoke a "fag". He had swiped a few cigarettes from his dad. I thought it was cool that he knew the proper English term for a smoke. It's interesting how language changes... but not always for the best.

dancepartner

This speaker did one very impressive job.

then, this thread is good (at least I think so).

PJ_Soul wrote:

If I hear someone say this it strikes me as pretty strange. I don 't think I've used the term in front of anyone for a long long time. But it was a really common use of the word when I was younger for years - it really never occurred to anyone that there was anything wrong with it I don't think - and I guess it stuck in my brain, because every once in a while I find myself using the term when talking to myself the way we all do... and I noticed that I'd said it, and found THAT strange. It came out as a matter of old, old habit I guess... I was just surprised that it was still somewhere in my head. But for the most part, I think using the word gay as a pejorative is almost a thing of the past, at least here in Vancouver. Gay is what a homosexual male is (most don't call lesbians gay for some reason... where do lesbians stand on that??).

Then, Whygarret makes a comment about how he's never really thought about it but will try to check himself. I see this as a very honest assessement, one most of us can relate to.

But then I read where KAT feels the need to warn us to behave? I don't get it.
Well, I'm with JasonP; I too learned the meaning of pejorative today!
But, I agree with the ones who plan to be more sensative about using the word gay (though it's a term I'm personally not guilty of a flippant use of) but rather, I'm one of those who've never thought much about it. I'd say it's cuz we use our own morals to guide us -- not KATs.
I'm intolerant of intolerance. And, this goes for anyone who assumes that anyone who is NOT gay, or black, or jewish or whatever -- might be suspect of being intolerant.

Drowned Out

butterjam wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxs78C3XGok&feature=player_embedded

It takes a Village People!

Which one??? Lets get them to take care of this problem once and for all!

Prince Of Dorkness

whgarrett wrote:

I still use the term. If one on my friends is acting gay, or if they are doing something gay, I tell them.

So like... if one of your friends is xxxxing you... you say "dude... that's gay."

Ok.

And does he say something like "whhppppoommphhhttth.." or like... what? :fp:

Prince Of Dorkness

whgarrett wrote:

I think everyone has such a small amount of time on this planet that I shouldn't judge them for what lifestyle choices they make.

For the record... my people find the term "lifestyle choice" to be about as offensive as saying "that's so gay" when saying something is weak or bad or unfair.

Last-12-Exit

I don't like the phrase gay rights. I don't have straight rights. Shouldn't be human rights regardless? Sorry, im off topic.

Prince Of Dorkness

Last-12-Exit wrote:

I don't like the phrase gay rights. I don't have straight rights. Shouldn't be human rights regardless? Sorry, im off topic.

Well... yeah, you kind of do have straight rights.

Technically... I don't want "gay rights." I want "equal" rights. And until I do... you DO have straight rights.

I know I know... it's hard to follow me sometimes. I know I don't make it easy sometimes.

Last-12-Exit

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Last-12-Exit wrote:

I don't like the phrase gay rights. I don't have straight rights. Shouldn't be human rights regardless? Sorry, im off topic.

Well... yeah, you kind of do have straight rights.

Technically... I don't want "gay rights." I want "equal" rights. And until I do... you DO have straight rights.

I know I know... it's hard to follow me sometimes. I know I don't make it easy sometimes.

I follow you and didn't think of it that way. And I agree with you 100%.

Bentleyspop

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

whgarrett wrote:

I think everyone has such a small amount of time on this planet that I shouldn't judge them for what lifestyle choices they make.

For the record... my people find the term "lifestyle choice" to be about as offensive as saying "that's so gay" when saying something is weak or bad or unfair.

Horos

'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.'

Something like that is what I was taught as a child many years ago. I can't relate to being even slightly bothered by name calling let alone offended. But I am not a member of any minority groups either.

As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't. I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone's speech. These are simply words and many seem to choose to be offended by them. Both of the words actually had a different meaning before being applied to these minority groups.

Again I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand how one can be bothered by such nonsense.
Guess I'll never have the chance to 'walk a mile in their shoes'.

Personally I don't like any people in general and it makes no difference to me if you are homosexual or black(is that okay to say Kat? Or do I still have to say African American? Seems to change every day).

Take a page from the Hebrews, I never hear them whining about the pejorative Jew.

Flame away and say what you will. I won't be offended because they're only words.

whgarrett

I absolutely see where you are coming from Prince of Dorkness.

See, I didn't even realize that. It had to be pointed out to me.

Thank You for the correction.

Bentleyspop

Horos wrote:

'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.'

Something like that is what I was taught as a child many years ago. I can't relate to being even slightly bothered by name calling let alone offended. But I am not a member of any minority groups either.

As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't. I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone's speech. These are simply words and many seem to choose to be offended by them. Both of the words actually had a different meaning before being applied to these minority groups.

Again I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand how one can be bothered by such nonsense.
Guess I'll never have the chance to 'walk a mile in their shoes'.

Personally I don't like any people in general and it makes no difference to me if you are homosexual or black(is that okay to say Kat? Or do I still have to say African American? Seems to change every day).

Take a page from the Hebrews, I never hear them whining about the pejorative Jew.

Flame away and say what you will. I won't be offended because they're only words.

As an American Jew whose family escaped the Shoah I have no problem being called a Jew.

"The word Jew has been used often enough in a disparaging manner by antisemites that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries it was frequently avoided altogether, and the term Hebrew was substituted instead (e.g. Young Men's Hebrew Association). Even today some people are wary of its use, and prefer to use "Jewish". Indeed, when used as an adjective (e.g. "Jew lawyer") or verb (e.g. "to jew someone"),[1] the term Jew is purely pejorative. However, when used as a noun, "Jew" is preferred, as other circumlocutions (e.g. "Jewish person") give the impression that the term "Jew" is offensive in all contexts."

PJ_Soul

Horos wrote:

'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.'

Something like that is what I was taught as a child many years ago. I can't relate to being even slightly bothered by name calling let alone offended. But I am not a member of any minority groups either.

As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't. I'm not trying to offend or defend anyone's speech. These are simply words and many seem to choose to be offended by them. Both of the words actually had a different meaning before being applied to these minority groups.

Again I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to understand how one can be bothered by such nonsense.
Guess I'll never have the chance to 'walk a mile in their shoes'.

Personally I don't like any people in general and it makes no difference to me if you are homosexual or black(is that okay to say Kat? Or do I still have to say African American? Seems to change every day).

Take a page from the Hebrews, I never hear them whining about the pejorative Jew.

Flame away and say what you will. I won't be offended because they're only words.

I know someone said it, but i see no relation between the word gay and the N word. No one is expected to stop saying the word gay altogether. We still call gay people gay. The word isn't for only gay people to use, and calling gay people gay is not prejudiced. So let's stop pretending that it's anything like the N word.

And yeah, I have definitly never met a Jew who would be upset about being called a Jew. Obviously if the word is used as a punchline at the end of a bigotted joke or as a negative adjective, the context is suddenly changed, and that's where the problem arises, obviously, just like with the word gay. Of course Jews are offended when the word Jew is used as a pejorative term. And of course gays are offended when the word gay is used in the same way. As for the N word - that is necessarily a pejorative term all the time. In using when black people use it. I think it is in credibly strange that they do, and yes, extremely hypocritical that they can say it and no one else can (it should not be acceptable for anyone to say it), and i do not understand at all how that is accepted among many black people as readily as it is (although i k kw that some black people donhave a real kssue with this). I think it demonstrates some deeper issues, as does the use of the word faggot among gay people. Just because some of them are using the word themselves doesn't make it okay IMO.

And Horos, yes I think your opinion stems from the fact that you have never been discriminated against in this way (althpugh your apparent lack of understanding of the impact of these terms used pejoratively surprises me a bit... i don't think it should take too keen a sense of empathy to understand the real issues here). It is a much deeper issue than can be solved by the sticks and stones mantra. It's not just about words.

hedonist

dancepartner wrote:

But then I read where KAT feels the need to warn us to behave? I don't get it.
Well, I'm with JasonP; I too learned the meaning of pejorative today!
But, I agree with the ones who plan to be more sensative about using the word gay (though it's a term I'm personally not guilty of a flippant use of) but rather, I'm one of those who've never thought much about it. I'd say it's cuz we use our own morals to guide us -- not KATs.
I'm intolerant of intolerance. And, this goes for anyone who assumes that anyone who is NOT gay, or black, or jewish or whatever -- might be suspect of being intolerant.

I'm not presuming to speak for Kat, but I've seen her input in these forums both as a moderator as well as a person just offering her views like the rest of us. Her earlier post struck me as both.

Anyway, totally agree with the last part of your post.

Prince Of Dorkness

Horos wrote:

'As for the 'G' word or the 'N' word I find it hypocritical that these minority groups can say it but I can't.

Yes. I know. And I find it excruciating having to hear Straight, Christian White Men crying like babies that they can't use the words that they used as weapons against us for generations because we have taken those words FROM them and now use them in our own ways.

But here's how it is...

Trying to navigate through the intricate social constructs of cultures other than your own is always a dangerous game and it's best to just not try to do it. I have a lot of what I hesitate to call "fans" in the deaf community. The visual style of a lot of my movies means that it's easy to follow the storyline without hearing dialogue (or so I've been told). So I've often been asked to appear at functions for the deaf gay community. I'm always happy to go, the parties are usually a lot of fun and I really like them a lot.

BUT... deaf culture is a very unique and difficult one to navigate. It's something that they have built up over generations, they have many of their own customs and consider many different things "rude" or "polite" that we may feel is totally the opposite. I won't get into it too much here but there are many reasons that culture exists and while I might not understand why it all is... it's something I respect because it's there for a reason. There are no arbitrary reasons that things are the way they are when dealing with cultural things.

The rule I have always followed when I find myself in a new culture such as that is to just accept the rules as they are and not question them or even try to step into it. When I tried to come up with my own name in Sign, I was told that a deaf person must come up with it for me. I can't do it myself. I didn't understand why that was and it didn't make sense to me exactly... but I didn't question it and the next day I got this in my email....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQNORq_H5o8

Which I thought was pretty cool.