Good Guys with Guns Stop Bad Guys with Guns

pandora

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

Has the word 'ban' or 'banning' been mentioned by anyone in this thread? I don't think so... Why do pro-gun people straight away go to this extreme?

I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally.
So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.

No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.

I guess you didn't hear the news show I did

rollings

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.

I guess you didn't hear the news show I did

why are you laughing?

redrock

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

I asked is all because we have laws and this killer could not get a gun legally.
So our laws worked. But it proves that laws can not stop someone from killing.

No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.

I guess you didn't hear the news show I did

So you're finding this a laughing matter, are you? I'm not.

There are a number of firearms he could have purchased at a dealer (he tried to purchase a rifle). He could have purchased anything he wanted over the internet (there again, needed time for delivery).


"Sources said Lanza entered the gun store "earlier in the week" in the Newtown area and inquired about buying one rifle. He did not have a permit for firearms, and was told about a 14-day background check that would have to be done, the sources said.

"He didn't want to wait the 14 days," said one source, declining to be identified because the case is still under review. "So they denied him. The sale did not take place.""

Hugh Freaking Dillon

rollings wrote:

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.

I guess you didn't hear the news show I did

why are you laughing?

I find this very odd behaviour as well, but I've seen it before.

Zoso

why is the 90% of gun deaths in the industrialzied woirld in America? Reading these threads about how people want to hold their guns close to their sides at night is a huge reason. I don't think gun laws would help in America.. it's a bizarre culture indeed. the violent movies are in Greece, Australia and the UK...

People have personality disorders and other mental illnesses in other countries but aren't shooting up schools... why are we blaming mental health! the only difference in America is more guns and ridiculous laws.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Zoso wrote:

why is the 90% of gun deaths in the industrialzied woirld in America? Reading these threads about how people want to hold their guns close to their sides at night is a huge reason. I don't think gun laws would help in America.. it's a bizarre culture indeed. the violent movies are in Greece, Australia and the UK...

People have personality disorders and other mental illnesses in other countries but aren't shooting up schools... why are we blaming mental health! the only difference in America is more guns and ridiculous laws.

because they will blame anything else to keep their right to their precious guns.

gimmesometruth27

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Zoso wrote:

why is the 90% of gun deaths in the industrialzied woirld in America? Reading these threads about how people want to hold their guns close to their sides at night is a huge reason. I don't think gun laws would help in America.. it's a bizarre culture indeed. the violent movies are in Greece, Australia and the UK...

People have personality disorders and other mental illnesses in other countries but aren't shooting up schools... why are we blaming mental health! the only difference in America is more guns and ridiculous laws.

because they will blame anything else to keep their right to their precious guns.

it is deflection. nothing more.

it is like:

interviewer: "mr senator, why do you support gun rights and the right to have assault rifles as vehemently as you do?"

senator: "hey look over there, is that elvis??" runs away....

snow_board_rider

Did I miss where a good guy killed this shooter? I thought he killed himself like the rest if them have done. I can only remember two times where a good guy intervened.u

Hugh Freaking Dillon

snow_board_rider wrote:

Did I miss where a good guy killed this shooter? I thought he killed himself like the rest if them have done. I can only remember two times where a good guy intervened.u

they are saying if the teachers had been armed, everyone would be eating milk and cookies and laughing about this now.

mickeyrat

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

snow_board_rider wrote:

Did I miss where a good guy killed this shooter? I thought he killed himself like the rest if them have done. I can only remember two times where a good guy intervened.u

they are saying if the teachers had been armed, everyone would be eating milk and cookies and in therapy for having seen or heard someone killed in front of them

Oh wait............................

peacefrompaul

Seems to me like the mom was irresponsible

Were the guns locked up? I doubt it

whygohome

[rude comments removed by Admin]

redrock

peacefrompaul wrote:

Seems to me like the mom was irresponsible

Were the guns locked up? I doubt it

Even if they were. He was an adult living in the house and 'sharing' the use of the guns with his mother. Don't think that locked up or not would have made much difference.

pandora

He was not considered an adult yet in the eyes of the law for the possession of the hand gun
in CT.

peacefrompaul

redrock wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

Seems to me like the mom was irresponsible

Were the guns locked up? I doubt it

Even if they were. He was an adult living in the house and 'sharing' the use of the guns with his mother. Don't think that locked up or not would have made much difference.

Certainly it would... if they are locked in a case that only the mom has a key to, there is no way he's getting those guns.

Edit: Unless he steals the keys/finds them/etc.

you get my point

redrock

I understand what you're saying but let's view this 2 adults living together where there are 'household' guns owned by one of them. Say a couple - he has legal ownership of a gun that is used for 'protection' He is 'responsible' and the gun is under lock and key as is the ammo (in a different location, of course). Hubby is out, wife at home on her own. Hears a noise, fears an intruder, needs the gun for 'protection'. Takes the keys, takes the gun. Its that also stealing as, technically she didn't purchase the gun? should hubby have the only set of keys on him, all the time? Regardless? Defeating theIr purpose of ownership. Should they each have their own guns?

With little kids, the answer is simple. But with adults, it's fuzzy I think.

pandora

redrock wrote:

I understand what you're saying but let's view this 2 adults living together where there are 'household' guns owned by one of them. Say a couple - he has legal ownership of a gun that is used for 'protection' He is 'responsible' and the gun is under lock and key as is the ammo (in a different location, of course). Hubby is out, wife at home on her own. Hears a noise, fears an intruder, needs the gun for 'protection'. Takes the keys, takes the gun. Its that also stealing as, technically she didn't purchase the gun? should hubby have the only set of keys on him, all the time? Regardless? Defeating theIr purpose of ownership. Should they each have their own guns?

With little kids, the answer is simple. But with adults, it's fuzzy I think.

It's stealing, it is possessing a gun illegally. Depending on the state, permits are needed
to purchase and use a handgun, as in CT. And you must be 21.

The mall shooter and this young man both acquired their guns illegally.

This mother made some mistakes right? Mothers do that. Was she shocked when he
pulled the trigger taking her life? My gut tells me not as much as one would think.
People know when someone is mentally ill, they are just unable to get them the help
they need.

pandora

rollings wrote:

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

No Pandora. Try to understand. NOTHING stopped him from purchasing a gun. HE did not want to go through the purchase because he had to wait and he did not want to wait. If he did, he would have had the gun.

I guess you didn't hear the news show I did

why are you laughing?

I was laughing because of the very weird way the media has handled this. All the misreporting and rumors flying.

My understanding is he carried his brothers ID to try to get by the age requirement.
And something went wrong with that.
The ID must have been stolen years ago because they have not spoken in two years,
it was reported.

And God guys somebody really thinks people would be laughing about this?
No one is laughing at anything other than what I said. News reporting.

comebackgirl

I think most gun owners are probably responsible gun owners. At least I hope so. Unfortunately, most of us have probably learned the hard way at some point that no matter how much you try and safe guard your stuff, that doesn't mean it won't get stolen. Twenty year olds steal cars out of neighbors' driveways. They are savvy enough to crack code and steal identities. They are certainly savvy enough to figure out where mom or dad keep the keys to the car or the gun cabinet or a way around the lock. Maybe a gun owner has no history of mental illness, but they may have a partner or a child that is suicidal. I don't think they can guarantee against that person getting that gun if they want to die badly enough. It's just a risk that they must acknowledge they are taking. Unfortunately if that person is also narcissistic or antisocial and they are determined to take others out along with them or to make a name for themselves along the way, some innocents are going to pay the price for that risk as well.

I certainly don't think banning guns is the answer to ridding our country of violence. Guns certainly are not the only ingredient, nor the stimulus for violence, but they are an ingredient that turns the heat up several notches. Their destructiveness intensifies the violence tenfold. Our country does need to value mental health care more, but I'm not sure of the role that played in this situation yet. Asperger's has no link to pre-planned violence (I am so disheartened to see so much misinformation out there! I fear autism-spectrum disorders will become the new schizophrenia). A personality disorder would have much more of a connection to this kind of violence, but there is no medication, no hospitalization and no short-term therapy that is going to correct someone's way of relating to and interacting with the world (a personality disorder is a way of relating, not an "illness"). I think we live in a society that values individual rights above the good of the whole and that plays a part here. I just can't even stomach a debate over gun rights when these little lives haven't even been laid to rest yet; I think the focus on that right is very telling. There is no simple answer, no one place to lay the blame, but we absolutely have to start somewhere in making changes. This is just too fucking much.

redrock

But you know what CBG, once these little ones and their teachers have been laid to rest and there's nothing more of interest to the sensationalist media; once the media have done with the killer, the 'nutter', this story will go away. Until the next time. As insensitive as it may seem, one needs to beat the iron while it's hot. I think this was one outrage too many and I really hope something comes out of it. And I'm not just talking about revised gun laws.